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Author Topic: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -  (Read 574209 times)
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YourMom
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« Reply #1040 on: November 24, 2009, 04:37:14 PM »


Someone may of asked these before…but I am such a hit or miss on this site…I am going to ask it any way…
Questions…… 1) If she had dug two graves, did she fill the extra on in too?
                             If it was not filled in
                        2) Why did the searches not find it?
                                   Supposedly they searched that area.


1.  They haven't released that information and they have said if Elizabeth was in only one of the graves.
2.  It was a very marshy area and a fairly large search area. 

marshy?????.....I did not know of any marshy in the Jeff City area

I am also curious about this, as I am a MO resident and I don't know of any marshy areas.  And the area where they found her body didn't look at all marshy to me????  maybe it was this way from a recent rain and was "temporarily marshy" ??  lol  if that's possible.
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klaasend
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« Reply #1041 on: November 24, 2009, 04:39:06 PM »

I'll find the press conference where LE mentioned the conditions.  Give me a few minutes.
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YourMom
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« Reply #1042 on: November 24, 2009, 04:43:38 PM »

I'll find the press conference where LE mentioned the conditions.  Give me a few minutes.

it's ok, klass, I believe you, just such an odd word for someone to use to decribe something in MO.  Just seemed so out of place.  Had to be from the recent rains and such and the area hadn't quite drained perhaps?
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« Reply #1043 on: November 24, 2009, 04:47:31 PM »

I'll find the press conference where LE mentioned the conditions.  Give me a few minutes.

I could swear they used the word marsh, but it may have been my interpretation

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=366189

(snipped)

UPDATE: Thursday 7:15 p.m.:

A 24-hour tip line has been set up to take calls from anyone who might have information on the case.

The number is (866) 362-6422. Anyone who has information or may have seen something is urged to call. 

Sheriff White says the highway patrol helicopter will be out searching again Friday. The rain made Thursday's search difficult but didn't slow it down, according to White. The weather was the reason a helicopter wasn't used in today's search.

Authorities have an updated description of what Elizabeth Olten was wearing when she went missing. Olten was wearing a pink T-shirt with a darker pink vest over that when she went missing. She was wearing blue jeans with pink ribbons on them.

UPDATE: Thursday 6:25 p.m.:

All searchers, including law enforcement, are being pulled out of the woods, according to Cole County Sheriff Greg White.

White says the woods are too dank and wet to continue a safe search tonight for missing 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten.

(snipped)

So to go back to Smile's question, maybe they missed the location because it was so wet and icky 
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« Reply #1044 on: November 24, 2009, 04:54:23 PM »

I don't have a link....but I remember reading someplace that because of the rains the area was muddy and and marsh like.  I remember becasue that was the way my back yard was....

O/T Klaas when you have a moment please pop over to Caylee's thread I have 2 questions only you can answer
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« Reply #1045 on: November 24, 2009, 05:02:37 PM »

Could someone explain to me how to post pics on here? I have a general idea...but just not positive.  Thanks
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« Reply #1046 on: November 24, 2009, 05:09:27 PM »

Could someone explain to me how to post pics on here? I have a general idea...but just not positive.  Thanks

Two ways

1.  You need the URL of the photo you are posting then it needs to have the IMG tags in the front and at the end.  To add the IMG tags hightlight the url after pasting it into your message then click on the IMG icon above and it will automatically add the IMG tags for you.

2.  You can upload a photo from your PC by clicking on the ADDITIONAL OPTIONS link below the message area when you are typing a response.  There you will have the option to BROWSE from your PC.
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GemXx
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« Reply #1047 on: November 24, 2009, 05:21:48 PM »

This girl is going to play the game and she will get off on an insanity charge. She won't kill herself. She has had plenty of time to do that over the years. Look at her wrists...I bet she cuts her legs too and probably her stomach. I bet she is loaded with scars. People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane. This girl will waltz her way right into a mental hospital and will be released within 2 years....mark my words. She will not be punished for the premeditated murder of  Elizabeth Olten. This girl will basically walk. How wrong is that....  There will be no justice for Elizabeth ....

She belongs in prison for the rest of her days. If I had my way....she would fry tomorrow.

Quote from you "People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane."You are not being very empathetic to the situation as a whole.I say that as a former cutter (and not disturbed) And I say that as a surviving victim of a murder.I know Murder My father was murdered.you wanna check here it is the link.http://al.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.%5CAL%5CPLS%5C1991%5C19910517_0013.AL.htm/qx I see both sides which I see you can not. I know how murder effects a family (I LIVED IT) And I know what it is like to be crying and feel alone because the adults in your life are to busy to realize you can't deal with your own problems!So you cut to make your self feel real. Look what she did is Wrong!!! Once you cross that bridge you can not go back.Stop JUDGING and Start LEARNING. She needs to be put in a hospital for the rest of her life not a prison. 
And there I said it. I am sorry to all of the fellow monkeys if me saying that upsets you. You have all been very intelligent and open minded to me and what I have ever had to say ... (Thank You ) She may not be insane but maybe a little sociopathic and I do not say that with ease. The person that murdered my father was a sociopath.I myself can not understand it And I shouldn't (hints I am not one ) ;p Hell I cry at commercials!!!! Here is the definition to those who are not aware;

Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others.
sociopath
I feel pain on both sides of this case because I have been on both sides. There can still be Justice for Beautiful Elizabeth (which there should be) But lets not forget the bigger picture.If the adults in the life of Alyssa had been a lil more "hands on" I know they paid for a Doctor to talk to her but what about her parents!!! She was given away to her grandparents because her birth parents were to wrapped up in their own selfishness. If They had just gotten their shit straight long enough to give her what she needed. THIS MAY NOT HAVE HAPPENED!!! Some murders are born that way ,yet some are created from what they have been given.
I am sorry I got a bit fired up by that comment.....This case effects me ...In more ways than one. A child had been taken by another child that was forgotten long ago.Alyssa lived in a nice big house that I am sure kept her grandparents working a lot.Children don't need big houses or swimming pools , or pool tables etc.They need family and communication and morals that you cant expect you Sunday school teacher to teach them or a preacher to preach to them. You have to show them by spending time and molding that child.My grandmother (god rest her soul) stood up in the court room in the face of her own son's killers and said "I don't want another mother to lose her child like I did " She pushed for just life and not death.It is a sad sad day that is this day. If you can not have empathy for your fellow man what does that make you... I will tell you .... it makes you no better




TiskTisk - I honestly believe you are in the minority here.  Most have no compassion for anyone who would kill a 9yr old in cold blood. 

So if NUT is no better then "them" then I am no better as well. 

In the future don't attack others because of your own views.  TIA

IMO I think I have compassion for AB. I wish she would have been ok and that she got the help she needed.
But if I could give her the death penalty, I would. I don't see a way to salvage this person, and if we try she would likely recreate the experience by killing again. And what about punishment? It is not like she killed someone accidentally.
I don't see any treatment that could undo what she did. She had a lot of help before, she made a choice.

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nana0567
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« Reply #1048 on: November 24, 2009, 05:24:09 PM »

Could someone explain to me how to post pics on here? I have a general idea...but just not positive.  Thanks

Two ways

1.  You need the URL of the photo you are posting then it needs to have the IMG tags in the front and at the end.  To add the IMG tags hightlight the url after pasting it into your message then click on the IMG icon above and it will automatically add the IMG tags for you.

2.  You can upload a photo from your PC by clicking on the ADDITIONAL OPTIONS link below the message area when you are typing a response.  There you will have the option to BROWSE from your PC.
Thanks...I am familiar with the second option. I found some more pics of the monster that I didn't know if they have been seen by everyone here. Here is  the link:
http://www.cbsnews.com/elements/2009/11/23/crimesider/photoessay5747894.shtml?tag=page
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« Reply #1049 on: November 24, 2009, 06:25:32 PM »

This girl is going to play the game and she will get off on an insanity charge. She won't kill herself. She has had plenty of time to do that over the years. Look at her wrists...I bet she cuts her legs too and probably her stomach. I bet she is loaded with scars. People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane. This girl will waltz her way right into a mental hospital and will be released within 2 years....mark my words. She will not be punished for the premeditated murder of  Elizabeth Olten. This girl will basically walk. How wrong is that....  There will be no justice for Elizabeth ....

She belongs in prison for the rest of her days. If I had my way....she would fry tomorrow.

Quote from you "People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane."You are not being very empathetic to the situation as a whole.I say that as a former cutter (and not disturbed) And I say that as a surviving victim of a murder.I know Murder My father was murdered.you wanna check here it is the link.http://al.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.%5CAL%5CPLS%5C1991%5C19910517_0013.AL.htm/qx I see both sides which I see you can not. I know how murder effects a family (I LIVED IT) And I know what it is like to be crying and feel alone because the adults in your life are to busy to realize you can't deal with your own problems!So you cut to make your self feel real. Look what she did is Wrong!!! Once you cross that bridge you can not go back.Stop JUDGING and Start LEARNING. She needs to be put in a hospital for the rest of her life not a prison. 
And there I said it. I am sorry to all of the fellow monkeys if me saying that upsets you. You have all been very intelligent and open minded to me and what I have ever had to say ... (Thank You ) She may not be insane but maybe a little sociopathic and I do not say that with ease. The person that murdered my father was a sociopath.I myself can not understand it And I shouldn't (hints I am not one ) ;p Hell I cry at commercials!!!! Here is the definition to those who are not aware;

Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others.
sociopath
I feel pain on both sides of this case because I have been on both sides. There can still be Justice for Beautiful Elizabeth (which there should be) But lets not forget the bigger picture.If the adults in the life of Alyssa had been a lil more "hands on" I know they paid for a Doctor to talk to her but what about her parents!!! She was given away to her grandparents because her birth parents were to wrapped up in their own selfishness. If They had just gotten their shit straight long enough to give her what she needed. THIS MAY NOT HAVE HAPPENED!!! Some murders are born that way ,yet some are created from what they have been given.
I am sorry I got a bit fired up by that comment.....This case effects me ...In more ways than one. A child had been taken by another child that was forgotten long ago.Alyssa lived in a nice big house that I am sure kept her grandparents working a lot.Children don't need big houses or swimming pools , or pool tables etc.They need family and communication and morals that you cant expect you Sunday school teacher to teach them or a preacher to preach to them. You have to show them by spending time and molding that child.My grandmother (god rest her soul) stood up in the court room in the face of her own son's killers and said "I don't want another mother to lose her child like I did " She pushed for just life and not death.It is a sad sad day that is this day. If you can not have empathy for your fellow man what does that make you... I will tell you .... it makes you no better




TiskTisk - I honestly believe you are in the minority here.  Most have no compassion for anyone who would kill a 9yr old in cold blood. 

So if NUT is no better then "them" then I am no better as well. 

In the future don't attack others because of your own views.  TIA

IMO I think I have compassion for AB. I wish she would have been ok and that she got the help she needed.
But if I could give her the death penalty, I would. I don't see a way to salvage this person, and if we try she would likely recreate the experience by killing again. And what about punishment? It is not like she killed someone accidentally.
I don't see any treatment that could undo what she did. She had a lot of help before, she made a choice.




 I agree I DO feel sorry for the infant Alyssa and the young Alyssa. I do not feel bad for this 15 yr old Alyssa that killed EIZABETH   FOR NO REASON(not that I bleieve there is any reason to kill a nine yr old). Even if there were "reasons" why she did it. IT CAN NOT BE UNDONE. If Alyssa cant live life as it is, witout killing, how would she live the life she has created for herslef now. Guilt is one the those things in life that will drive you insane if you are not already. If all the counseling and grandparents trying and church, and friends couldnt "help" this girl, what can..The answer is NOTHING.... So therefore ALL the Elizabeths in the world need protected from her.  I am very srry if a mantal illness casued this..or if she is "this" or "that". I am also sorry her parents are idiots, and life was not what she wnated.. but it doesnt matter how sorry I am, she doesnt need freedom to kill again.. that is what it boils down to. She tricked/fooled professionals grandparents and friends..she knows what to do, to convince them she is "so sorry" or "she will never do it again" I say please state of Mo, do not rick any other children or adults life by letting her out, to test the theory of whether or not she can be reahbilitated.. It would take another death to find out the answer to that.. that is too high a price to pay..

 Sadly I too would adminster the DP if asked. It would break my heart, and I would cry all the while, but I could do it. That is more compassion then she showed ELIZABETH
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« Reply #1050 on: November 24, 2009, 06:29:27 PM »

I keep wondering what ELIZABETH would want to happen. I wonder if Elizabeth was alive and another child had been killed by AB, what Elizabeth would think should happen to AB... Would she want her to "just get help" or like so many of us to be put under the jail, and the world protected from her??

 Then the whole truth hit me hard.. Elizabeth never got old enough to have to worry about these questions. She wasnt old enough to be able to rap her mind around something like this. She would have been protected by her parents from as much information of this case as possible because...she was JUST TOO YOUNG!!!!!
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« Reply #1051 on: November 24, 2009, 06:41:53 PM »

Lenie,
I would like to say how truly sorry what happended to your friend.  I agree with what you are saying; people will only show what they want us to see. 

However in this case Alyssa did not hide what a monster she was.  She posted it all on the internet for everyone, mainly her friends, to see.  So when her friends are going to the media (wither it is an interview or posting a comment for the world to see) about them being shocked, and that Alyssa was a normal teenager who liked to laugh, I feel they are being stupid.   I do feel every comment about Alyssa being a normal teenager with normal problems is an insult to Elizabeth! To both her short life and her horrific death.

As far as her friends being confused, because they feel they have been tricked by Alyssa, there are more appropriate outlets for them to discuss their confusion.  They have parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, school councilors, other friends, their parents, trust teacher, school councilor, priest, pastor....This is more appropriate and defiantly more respectful to Elizabeth and her family.





I agree that Alyssa put it all out there for people to see what type of person she was turning into. I had posted a few pages back about classes that I taught at the library. I taught the parents and grandparents how to "google" their kids. Showed them websites where they needed to look. You would not believe some of the stuff they found. Not saying they were or not, but the grandparents may not have had a clue. I think Alyssa was very good at being the person someone wanted her to be. Unfortunately I think this will also work to her benefit here. She knows to get away with this horrible horrible murder that she has committed that she will need to prove that she is crazy. If they find her insane then she will be able to work on "getting better". We all know what she deserves but I fear that she is going to get off very lightly.

I also think that her "friends" should do a lot of soul searching. I know what friendship is, but if any of my friends would have put the kind of information out there that Alyssa did, I would have went to my parents. They need to realize that they own a piece of this.

If it goes to trial I wish that the prosecutor would ask for a change of venue. I agree with a lot here who think that because of Elizabeth's dad and brother that this case was handled differently.
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« Reply #1052 on: November 24, 2009, 07:06:55 PM »

Nut,
I am sorry you were attacked.  You are a strong advocate for children, elderly and the disabled. You deserve a big "THANK YOU" for everything you do.  an angelic monkey

just catching up here...but I agree with Burkie...I value you as a person and your opinion on matters and I have to truthfully say that I have never ever seen you be rude or impolite to anyone...how do you keep your cool? 
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« Reply #1053 on: November 24, 2009, 07:14:21 PM »

Hi Monkeys!
   I've been cooking like crazy trying to get ready for Thanksgiving and popping in to try to keep up. I guess I miss the fireworks! But I do want to put my two cents in. I love this forum because you can have a difference of opinion and be able to discuss it. I don't understand what the he** happened with Tisk but it seemed that offense was taken when it wasn't warranted. We are all open to life experiences especially if it gives a clue into someone's mindeset. It helps put the pieces together. You know the saying--not all sociopaths are serial killers but all serial killers are sociopaths-LOL. Anyway, I think all of you are amazing, I'm glad to be here and I wish all of you and yours a very Happy Thanksgiving. Please remeber the Oltens family as they will have one less seat this year.  an angelic monkey RIP ELizabeth
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« Reply #1054 on: November 24, 2009, 07:26:50 PM »

Lenie,
I would like to say how truly sorry what happended to your friend.  I agree with what you are saying; people will only show what they want us to see. 

However in this case Alyssa did not hide what a monster she was.  She posted it all on the internet for everyone, mainly her friends, to see.  So when her friends are going to the media (wither it is an interview or posting a comment for the world to see) about them being shocked, and that Alyssa was a normal teenager who liked to laugh, I feel they are being stupid.   I do feel every comment about Alyssa being a normal teenager with normal problems is an insult to Elizabeth! To both her short life and her horrific death.

As far as her friends being confused, because they feel they have been tricked by Alyssa, there are more appropriate outlets for them to discuss their confusion.  They have parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, school councilors, other friends, their parents, trust teacher, school councilor, priest, pastor....This is more appropriate and defiantly more respectful to Elizabeth and her family.





I agree that Alyssa put it all out there for people to see what type of person she was turning into. I had posted a few pages back about classes that I taught at the library. I taught the parents and grandparents how to "google" their kids. Showed them websites where they needed to look. You would not believe some of the stuff they found. Not saying they were or not, but the grandparents may not have had a clue. I think Alyssa was very good at being the person someone wanted her to be. Unfortunately I think this will also work to her benefit here. She knows to get away with this horrible horrible murder that she has committed that she will need to prove that she is crazy. If they find her insane then she will be able to work on "getting better". We all know what she deserves but I fear that she is going to get off very lightly.

I also think that her "friends" should do a lot of soul searching. I know what friendship is, but if any of my friends would have put the kind of information out there that Alyssa did, I would have went to my parents. They need to realize that they own a piece of this.

If it goes to trial I wish that the prosecutor would ask for a change of venue. I agree with a lot here who think that because of Elizabeth's dad and brother that this case was handled differently.


I am sorry about what went on here a few posts back. I do believe all opinions should be heard. That is how we learn to discern information. TiskTisk has had her personal experience and obviously has had a hard time.  I find myself hypersensitive as well and perhaps she was having a bad day. I don't think it was at Nutt personally but at anyone who doesn't have sympathy for those who are troubled in life. Yes we all have our personal stories.  I for one was adopted and raised by a woman who never completed third grade in school and never aspired anything important for herself or for me.  Thankfully I rose above it, but to this day I am sure many of my insecurities stem from my upbringing.   I think in a while TiskTisk would have seen how her post was taken and maybe we could have gotten past it.  I have seen far worse on forums I have been on before. I for one always thought Ronald Cummings was lying from the get go.

Anyway thank you Espresso for the TG wishes.   I think things are pretty much at a standstill in this case until next week.  But I'll be lurking. 
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« Reply #1055 on: November 24, 2009, 07:30:06 PM »

Just now catching up.

On the Jennifer Meyer topic, I think she is just looking for her 15 minutes of fame.

If Alyssa hit her little sister all the time it would have left bruises when the little sister went to school and they would have asked why a 6 year old had bruises.

Also, I've heard on a reliable source, that she attempted to kill herself by ODing on pain killers and slitting her wrists, and she would have succeeded had the grandfather not went to the basement to talk to her.

I honestly believe that there are alot people that were acquaintances of Alyssa that are now saying they were BFFs so they can get their 15 minutes of fame. I know it's not right, but it is what I believe is happening.

I mean look at Jennifer, she seems to be preppy and conservative, almost the polar opposite of Alyssa, and when i was in JCHS the Emo crowd and the "prep" crowd did not mingle with each other. I think that Jennifer and Alyssa USED to be friends, but more than likely drifted apart sometime between middle school and now.


JMO
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« Reply #1056 on: November 24, 2009, 08:10:02 PM »

LL LOVE YOU ELIZABETH. MAY GOD BLESS YOUR FAMILY!!!! an angelic monkey
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« Reply #1057 on: November 24, 2009, 08:33:50 PM »

Just now catching up.

On the Jennifer Meyer topic, I think she is just looking for her 15 minutes of fame.

If Alyssa hit her little sister all the time it would have left bruises when the little sister went to school and they would have asked why a 6 year old had bruises.

Also, I've heard on a reliable source, that she attempted to kill herself by ODing on pain killers and slitting her wrists, and she would have succeeded had the grandfather not went to the basement to talk to her.

I honestly believe that there are alot people that were acquaintances of Alyssa that are now saying they were BFFs so they can get their 15 minutes of fame. I know it's not right, but it is what I believe is happening.

I mean look at Jennifer, she seems to be preppy and conservative, almost the polar opposite of Alyssa, and when i was in JCHS the Emo crowd and the "prep" crowd did not mingle with each other. I think that Jennifer and Alyssa USED to be friends, but more than likely drifted apart sometime between middle school and now.


JMO

I agree Shinju
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« Reply #1058 on: November 24, 2009, 08:57:28 PM »

Friend of murder suspect says teen pondered killing

ST. LOUIS | A friend says 15-year-old murder suspect Alyssa Bustamante mentioned in January that she wondered what it would be like to kill someone.

Jennifer Meyer told St. Louis TV station KMOV that Bustamante made the comment during a birthday party. But Meyer said she did not think Bustamante intended to kill anyone.

“I was at her party, and she kind of just took me off to the side randomly and she's like, 'You know, I wonder what it would be like to kill somebody,' because I guess she was mad at one of her friends there, but it just seemed kind of strange,” Meyer said. “But you wouldn't logically think one of your friends would kill somebody.”

Authorities say Bustamante has given them a similar explanation for the Oct. 21 killing of 9-year-old neighbor Elizabeth Olten. They say Bustamante strangled, stabbed and cut Elizabeth's throat because she wanted to know what it was like to kill someone.

Law officers say Bustamante led them to Elizabeth's body two days later in a wooded area near their homes in St. Martins, just west of Jefferson City.

Last week, Bustamante was indicted as an adult on charges of first-degree murder and armed criminal action. If convicted of first-degree murder, she would face life in prison without parole.

Meyer said she had been friends with Bustamante for several years and that the two attended birthday parties and sleepovers. Meyer said she last spoke with Bustamante two days before Elizabeth was killed.

Meyer said Bustamante became angry when Meyer refused to go with her to a party that involved drugs and then told Bustamante not to bring them to Meyer's house.

“I have a little brother and sister, and I was like, 'I don't think that's a good idea,'” Meyer said. “And then she started kind of getting angry.”

Bustamante has been held at the Morgan County jail, but her attorney has sought to have her transferred to a state psychiatric hospital because the teen shows signs of severe depression and anxiety.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/breaking_news/story/1591610.html
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« Reply #1059 on: November 24, 2009, 09:35:32 PM »

Alyssa Bustamante will be sent to mental hospital for evaluation
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Alyssa Bustamante has been held at the Morgan County jail since being indicted last Wednesday as an adult on charges of first-degree murder and armed criminal action in the killing of her 9-year-old neighbor, Elizabeth Olten. According to a very reliable source, she is in with the general population and is allowed contact with other inmates, despite media reports to the contrary. She is not in lockdown or under suicide watch.

Last week, Cole County Circuit Judge Patricia Joyce ordered her to be taken to the Fulton State Hospital for up to 96 hours. The judge wrote the order on Thursday, but it was unclear when the order was to begin because it had no time stamp. She was supposed to be moved to the hospital after her lawyer said she showed signs of severe depression and anxiety.

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