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Author Topic: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -  (Read 574154 times)
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ISpy
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« Reply #1100 on: December 01, 2009, 01:54:07 AM »

Just now catching up.

On the Jennifer Meyer topic, I think she is just looking for her 15 minutes of fame.

If Alyssa hit her little sister all the time it would have left bruises when the little sister went to school and they would have asked why a 6 year old had bruises.

Also, I've heard on a reliable source, that she attempted to kill herself by ODing on pain killers and slitting her wrists, and she would have succeeded had the grandfather not went to the basement to talk to her.

I honestly believe that there are alot people that were acquaintances of Alyssa that are now saying they were BFFs so they can get their 15 minutes of fame. I know it's not right, but it is what I believe is happening.

I mean look at Jennifer, she seems to be preppy and conservative, almost the polar opposite of Alyssa, and when i was in JCHS the Emo crowd and the "prep" crowd did not mingle with each other. I think that Jennifer and Alyssa USED to be friends, but more than likely drifted apart sometime between middle school and now.


JMO

Not a usual poster here, but a reader.  Stopping by to add my two cents.  While I agree Alyssa's friend may be cashing in her 15 minutes of fame, who knows?  It may also be that she's trying to "explain" why she didn't really take Alyssa's talk seriously.  She's probably still in shock somewhat that she actually was friends with a murderer (shocking at any age much less a teen).  I can tell you from personal experience with an abusive sibling, the above bolded remark isn't necessarily so.  My abuser was "careful" where to leave the bruises/where to twist.  They looked like "play marks" and my accusations were met with "sibling rivalry" or "You must have done something to provoke it.".  The abuse always occurred when we were left unsupervised (my abuser was slightly older, one parent worked nights, and the other worked days but got home later than we did).  After school was the most dangerous time from 3:30-4:30.  As things got progressively more violent (being held face down in the snow for an extended period of time, among other things), I realized it was up to me to protect myself.  My parents refused (?) to believe me- their child would never do anything like that, I must be exaggerating.  So, I began locking myself in the only room with working lock and practiced climbing out of the room's only window (just in case I ever needed to quickly in an emergency).  I also did a secret sweep of my abuser's room (careful to put back everything exactly right) because I was sure there was some drug abuse escalating the violence (there was-doesn't help when one's parent is heading the anti-drug task force and their children do no wrong).  The night I made a conscious decision and grabbed the largest butcher knife we owned on my way to the bathroom was a turning point.  I clearly remember rationally deciding that night that if my abuser was able to break down the door, I would use that knife...it was either that or be killed.  Thank God, my parent arrived home before it got to that point.  After that night, I made a concerted effort to never be home alone with my abuser again.  If that meant staying after school every day, so be it.   If that meant going with a parent to night classes and sitting in the lounge for hours, so be it.  If that meant getting an early ride to school with someone, so be it.  Anywhere was better (and safer) than home.  It's highly probable Alyssa was beating up younger siblings and coercing them into doing things they didn't want to do.  I would almost lay money that second grave was for her younger sister, Elizabeth's friend.  IMO, the only reason Alyssa didn't use it was because that would draw the police to her doorstep pretty quickly.

Also, although Prozac reportedly may cause rage-type episodes in a small percentage of people, it does not cause pre-meditation:  evidenced by the digging of graves; digging the graves on a day off from school (guardians at work?); and digging two graves (planning for more than one victim).  This was not a murderous rage provoked by Prozac, IMO.  This was a plan that involved thought and planning, physical effort, and watching and waiting for a perfect opportunity.

All, MOO.  Time to scoot, but I just wanted to clarify the sibling abuse thing.  Have a good evening/morning and take good care.
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« Reply #1101 on: December 01, 2009, 06:57:12 AM »

Just now catching up.

On the Jennifer Meyer topic, I think she is just looking for her 15 minutes of fame.

If Alyssa hit her little sister all the time it would have left bruises when the little sister went to school and they would have asked why a 6 year old had bruises.

Also, I've heard on a reliable source, that she attempted to kill herself by ODing on pain killers and slitting her wrists, and she would have succeeded had the grandfather not went to the basement to talk to her.

I honestly believe that there are alot people that were acquaintances of Alyssa that are now saying they were BFFs so they can get their 15 minutes of fame. I know it's not right, but it is what I believe is happening.

I mean look at Jennifer, she seems to be preppy and conservative, almost the polar opposite of Alyssa, and when i was in JCHS the Emo crowd and the "prep" crowd did not mingle with each other. I think that Jennifer and Alyssa USED to be friends, but more than likely drifted apart sometime between middle school and now.


JMO

Not a usual poster here, but a reader.  Stopping by to add my two cents.  While I agree Alyssa's friend may be cashing in her 15 minutes of fame, who knows?  It may also be that she's trying to "explain" why she didn't really take Alyssa's talk seriously.  She's probably still in shock somewhat that she actually was friends with a murderer (shocking at any age much less a teen).  I can tell you from personal experience with an abusive sibling, the above bolded remark isn't necessarily so.  My abuser was "careful" where to leave the bruises/where to twist.  They looked like "play marks" and my accusations were met with "sibling rivalry" or "You must have done something to provoke it.".  The abuse always occurred when we were left unsupervised (my abuser was slightly older, one parent worked nights, and the other worked days but got home later than we did).  After school was the most dangerous time from 3:30-4:30.  As things got progressively more violent (being held face down in the snow for an extended period of time, among other things), I realized it was up to me to protect myself.  My parents refused (?) to believe me- their child would never do anything like that, I must be exaggerating.  So, I began locking myself in the only room with working lock and practiced climbing out of the room's only window (just in case I ever needed to quickly in an emergency).  I also did a secret sweep of my abuser's room (careful to put back everything exactly right) because I was sure there was some drug abuse escalating the violence (there was-doesn't help when one's parent is heading the anti-drug task force and their children do no wrong).  The night I made a conscious decision and grabbed the largest butcher knife we owned on my way to the bathroom was a turning point.  I clearly remember rationally deciding that night that if my abuser was able to break down the door, I would use that knife...it was either that or be killed.  Thank God, my parent arrived home before it got to that point.  After that night, I made a concerted effort to never be home alone with my abuser again.  If that meant staying after school every day, so be it.   If that meant going with a parent to night classes and sitting in the lounge for hours, so be it.  If that meant getting an early ride to school with someone, so be it.  Anywhere was better (and safer) than home.  It's highly probable Alyssa was beating up younger siblings and coercing them into doing things they didn't want to do.  I would almost lay money that second grave was for her younger sister, Elizabeth's friend.  IMO, the only reason Alyssa didn't use it was because that would draw the police to her doorstep pretty quickly.

Also, although Prozac reportedly may cause rage-type episodes in a small percentage of people, it does not cause pre-meditation:  evidenced by the digging of graves; digging the graves on a day off from school (guardians at work?); and digging two graves (planning for more than one victim).  This was not a murderous rage provoked by Prozac, IMO.  This was a plan that involved thought and planning, physical effort, and watching and waiting for a perfect opportunity.

All, MOO.  Time to scoot, but I just wanted to clarify the sibling abuse thing.  Have a good evening/morning and take good care.

I am so sorry Ispy. That was a horrible situation but a wonderful post explaining it. I also agree that the rage defense will not fly. She was/is just an evil person hiding among the normal people.
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« Reply #1102 on: December 01, 2009, 11:29:47 AM »

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=NEWS

Brother in custody in death of boy, 10

RISING SUN, IND. – Many people in this Ohio River town of 2,500 woke Monday morning to the news that the body of a 10-year-old boy had been found the night before in a wooded area near a city park.



Durhonda Drew heard a report on the radio and talked at breakfast to her twins, students in third grade at Ohio County Elementary/Middle School, where the dead youth, Conner Conley, was in the fifth grade.

By noontime, even more shocking, word had spread around town – from the cigarette smoke-choked Snack Shack on Main Street to the halls of Rising Sun High School – that Conner’s 17-year-old brother had been arrested and was being held at the Dearborn County Juvenile Center in Lawrenceburg.

Jeremy Monk, the boys’ uncle who often watched them, said the 17-year-old was in custody and that his sister, the boys’ mother, had been with police all day..........
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« Reply #1103 on: December 01, 2009, 12:17:26 PM »

ISpy wrote:
"Anywhere was better (and safer) than home." 

   Oh ISpy... I'm so sorry for this and all that you have endured.  What we survive makes us stronger, am thinking that's about our only consolation. 

One of my abusers was an older adoptive sibling, who was the fav of my 'mommie dearest', and in charge of me in her absence as well.  I remember the bathroom with the locked door very well.  My escape often was getting busy with babysitting in the church nursery during meetings.  Sad when as a child, the only safe place is anywhere other than home. 

Parents NEED to listen to their children, no matter if they have a "perfect child" or a "favorite" who just couldn't possibly do such things.  I got news for them!!!     

We don't know if that's what went on in Alyssa's home, but am thinking it very well could have.  Seems to me if anyone knows what she may be capable of, it's her younger siblings.  Hope LE is has been having lil chats with them.  Sigh. 
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« Reply #1104 on: December 01, 2009, 07:59:42 PM »

snipped from ispy post
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6392.msg1026086#msg1026086

Also, although Prozac reportedly may cause rage-type episodes in a small percentage of people, it does not cause
pre-meditation:  evidenced by the digging of graves; digging the graves on a day off from school (guardians at work?);
 and digging two graves (planning for more than one victim).  This was not a murderous rage provoked by Prozac, IMO.
 This was a plan that involved thought and planning, physical effort, and watching and waiting for a perfect opportunity.


 that two grave thing has bothered me since i read it, wonder if there is a mention,
of what/who it was for in the papers that lead to her arrest. prob wont know till trial
hmmm,could that be why there is no bail, or do juvees get bail
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« Reply #1105 on: December 01, 2009, 10:30:29 PM »

snipped from ispy post
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6392.msg1026086#msg1026086

Also, although Prozac reportedly may cause rage-type episodes in a small percentage of people, it does not cause
pre-meditation:  evidenced by the digging of graves; digging the graves on a day off from school (guardians at work?);
 and digging two graves (planning for more than one victim).  This was not a murderous rage provoked by Prozac, IMO.
 This was a plan that involved thought and planning, physical effort, and watching and waiting for a perfect opportunity.


 that two grave thing has bothered me since i read it, wonder if there is a mention,
of what/who it was for in the papers that lead to her arrest. prob wont know till trial
hmmm,could that be why there is no bail, or do juvees get bail

I agree CW! 

Don't remember it mentioned in the media what actually was written that led to her arrest, just that they found the writing.  Could have been part of her confession, dunno.  And with the way they've been so very tight-lipped about everything, don't even know if we'll ever find out.  As to the bail, some states allow that for juvees, not sure if allowed in all.  And yet, seems that her attorney is/was trying for her to be placed in the hospital on suicide watch, whatever.  Am hoping that the judge wouldn't consider bail for her at all.  No reason to give her a 2nd chance to fill in the second grave, even if it is for herself.  IMO.   

As you've said, the digging of two graves several days beforehand and all the thought that went into it, suggests there was a good deal of pre-planning.  Along with what she said to friends etc.  Seems all of that would cancel out any idea of a 'prozac defense'.  I guess there are cases where that might actually be true, altho I'd still be leery, seems that defense is over-used these days.  Sure doesn't seem to me that she snapped and went off on whoever was nearby.  Then thinking 'oh hey, those graves I dug the other day will sure come in handy now!'     Am guessing her attorney may still try it tho. 

Since the digging of two graves several days beforehand just smacks of pre-meditation, does the prosecution have to prove intent?  Or is pre-meditation and intent the same thing?  I mean, could her defense come back with something like .. she dug those graves as part of her lil fantasy, had nothing to do with reality.  How does an attorney prove intent anyway?   

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« Reply #1106 on: December 02, 2009, 01:47:34 AM »

Thanks, theboyzmom and Wyks!  It's not something I really choose to discuss, but in this case, I felt it relevant.  Wyks, I'm sorry you had to go through that.    I hope LE have been interviewing Alyssa's siblings individually and without the grandparents present.  I know that sounds terrible, but sometimes parents/guardians are in denial or too embarrassed to admit they cannot control the child.  ITA, parents need to be paying attention.  A large percentage of my friends were molested and their parents didn't know the signs or ignored them to protect themselves.  I believe that warning, nagging feeling some people call intuition is actually the Holy Spirit trying to warn you, "Pay attention!  Something's wrong here.".

Obviously, in this case, Alyssa herself was broadcasting warnings left and right.  You can bet for the videos she made and the pics she took, there was lots more she hid.  As she became more confident of being unchallenged (and therefore unstoppable), she became more brazen.  Alyssa's actions were willful and defiant...they were choices she clearly made each step of the way.  Many people come from broken homes and yet, they don't go around cutting themselves and murdering their neighbors' child.  IMO, minor killers-without-cause cannot be rehabilitated (except an act of God).  They have already hardened their hearts and proven they have zero value for human life.  It's unlikely they'll develop a profound new respect for human life.  They've crossed the proverbial line in the sand that divides us into human and inhuman.  They've burned the proverbial bridge that links human beings together in a society by empathy, compassion, consideration, kindness, respect, and self-control.

Done preaching to the choir here.  LOL!  Have a good evening/morning, everyone!  Take good care!
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« Reply #1107 on: December 03, 2009, 12:13:49 PM »

Thank you, ISpy!   an angelic monkey 

And good post!  I totally agree.  Am not sure how it got to this point with Alyssa, but am quite sure she didn't get this way overnight.  It sure could have happened in that step by step way you've mentioned.  And very definitely, her attitudes/actions were choices that she made. 

Even with just what we've learned about her recent past etc, IMO a 'prozac defense' doesn't fit.  IMO, she didn't just snap.  As you've said, there were warning signs left and right.  Am thinking that it's quite possible no one knew what to do with such an out of control teen, and were hoping for the best, even if dreading the worst. 

Unfortunately in this day and age, can't lock someone like that up until they actually DO something awful to someone else.  Cuz cutting oneself rarely warrants a stay in a psych hospital for much longer than several days, if that. 

It's a sad reality of today.  Funding.... and budget cuts all around, especially in the mental health field.  Seems only those who are the worst of the worst gets locked up for a lengthy time.  And the rest seem to be allowed to fall thru the cracks, because of .... funding.  And in the meantime, the innocents in our world are at high risk.  IMO

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« Reply #1108 on: December 03, 2009, 12:29:20 PM »

All documents have been posted:

http://www.colecountycourts.com/courtnews.htm
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« Reply #1109 on: December 03, 2009, 12:30:11 PM »

Guess I should add...

Since we cannot lock up out of control teens based on what we fear they 'might do' to themselves or others, we sure can keep a close watch on what they seem to be thinking/feeling, and what they are doing/saying, etc. 

If anything, IMO, Alyssa needed someone who knew exactly where she was at all times and what she was up to.  If anyone had been concerned as to her being a danger to herself or others, never should she have been allowed to be alone with her siblings, a neighbor child or anyone else. 

I don't know what her gpa's and family, therapist, etc did.  It just appears to me, as an outside ******* without all the details, that Alyssa had plenty of unsupervised time.  And that, given the warning signs that she seems to have been showing for quite some time, ought to at the very least, bring a charge of negligence against someone who ought to have been paying attention.  Again, IMO. 

 
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« Reply #1110 on: December 03, 2009, 12:31:34 PM »

   they filtered out the word *********??  ooooooo shame on me!   Monkey Devil!

Yes, Scared Monkey's filters out that word.  Please don't go around the filter.  MuffyBee


Edit:  remove word and replace with *******

« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 12:36:52 PM by MuffyBee » Logged

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« Reply #1111 on: December 03, 2009, 12:38:29 PM »

All documents have been posted:

http://www.colecountycourts.com/courtnews.htm


A doc dump?  Woot!!  Thanks, Chrissy!   


       

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« Reply #1112 on: December 03, 2009, 12:43:06 PM »

  they filtered out the word *********??  ooooooo shame on me!   Monkey Devil!

Yes, Scared Monkey's filters out that word.  Please don't go around the filter.  MuffyBee


Edit:  remove word and replace with *******



   WOW!  okies... is outside 'viewer', or 'interested standby' a better choice then? 
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chrissy07
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« Reply #1113 on: December 03, 2009, 12:48:02 PM »

All documents have been posted:

http://www.colecountycourts.com/courtnews.htm


A doc dump?  Woot!!  Thanks, Chrissy!   


       



Your quite welcome, I was pretty excited when I found it too!  LOL 
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« Reply #1114 on: December 03, 2009, 12:49:30 PM »

  they filtered out the word *********??  ooooooo shame on me!   Monkey Devil!

Yes, Scared Monkey's filters out that word.  Please don't go around the filter.  MuffyBee


Edit:  remove word and replace with *******



   WOW!  okies... is outside 'viewer', or 'interested standby' a better choice then? 


Yes.   
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Wyks
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« Reply #1115 on: December 03, 2009, 12:57:42 PM »

  they filtered out the word *********??  ooooooo shame on me!   Monkey Devil!

Yes, Scared Monkey's filters out that word.  Please don't go around the filter.  MuffyBee


Edit:  remove word and replace with *******



   WOW!  okies... is outside 'viewer', or 'interested standby' a better choice then? 


Yes.   

Oh good.. cuz my only choice left is... 'nosy old broad'.  <giggles>   
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Wyks
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« Reply #1116 on: December 03, 2009, 01:03:17 PM »

All documents have been posted:

http://www.colecountycourts.com/courtnews.htm


A doc dump?  Woot!!  Thanks, Chrissy!   


       



Your quite welcome, I was pretty excited when I found it too!  LOL 

We're lucky to have such an alert and watchful monkey as you!    I had no clue they were gonna release documents!   Away with me to read em!   

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« Reply #1117 on: December 03, 2009, 01:07:58 PM »

All documents have been posted:

http://www.colecountycourts.com/courtnews.htm


A doc dump?  Woot!!  Thanks, Chrissy!   


       



Your quite welcome, I was pretty excited when I found it too!  LOL 

Thank you!        
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« Reply #1118 on: December 03, 2009, 01:12:41 PM »

  they filtered out the word *********??  ooooooo shame on me!   Monkey Devil!

Yes, Scared Monkey's filters out that word.  Please don't go around the filter.  MuffyBee


Edit:  remove word and replace with *******



   WOW!  okies... is outside 'viewer', or 'interested standby' a better choice then? 



Boy, I am one dumb monkey.... can't figure out what the word is that must be filtered out.  LOL LOL LOL 
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« Reply #1119 on: December 03, 2009, 01:18:14 PM »

LOL Bananas!  And the thing is, it's not a bad word!  Just so ya know.  I'm trying to be a good monkey for Santa, honest.  lol   hehe   an angelic monkey  It's the 'o' word for someone who stands by and watches, sees, what is going on. 



 
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