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Author Topic: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -  (Read 574167 times)
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Deenie
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« Reply #220 on: November 18, 2009, 08:24:00 PM »

A Blog- Article Written by a Doc about Teens who Kill
http://everydaypsychology.com/2006/11/why-do-kids-commit-murder.html

For all of the theory and speculation about why kids commit murder, the answers do not differ greatly from what we have learned about adults who kill. With few exceptions, adolescents are just as capable of knowing that what they did was wrong.
   As with adults, some adolescents kill because they are chronically aggressive, cold and unfeeling. Some will kill because they "explode" in response to a history of "over-controlled hostility." Some will lash out after wallowing in feelings of victimization and after nurturing longstanding resentments. Others kill because they have been traumatized and are unable to tolerate their existence. Some who are immature and narcissistic become “obsessed.” Deprived of love or gratification, they feel justified while escalating to violence. Less common, but often more dramatic are the killings committed by the psychotic, those with disturbed and disordered thoughts and only a tenuous grasp on reality.
   During the course of my career as a forensic psychologist, including the time that I worked at the California Youth Authority, I have conducted several hundred evaluations of adolescents who have committed homicide or attempted homicide. Today, the district attorney can take most juveniles charged with homicide directly to adult court. Before the law changed about five years ago, adolescents routinely underwent extensive psychological examination before a judge would decide whether to try them as an adult or as a juvenile. An additional evaluation was required before an adolescent convicted as an adult could be sentenced to an adult prison.
  A psychological interview provides unique insights into the mental, emotional and motivational dynamics of the offender. Typically, it is the only time that the full story is told in rich detail, from the offender’s perspective, and with their feelings, beliefs and perceptions exposed. At no other point in the criminal justice system will the offender ever describe what they were thinking and how they viewed reality when they pulled the trigger or struck the fatal blow. Their story is rarely shared with the prosecution or the court, and may not be revealed to their own attorney. Often times, in a psychological interview, what the offender says is not sufficient to explain the motivation for their actions. In other cases, offenders will say enough for us to know whether the case should be described as an example of tragedy or an example of evil.
   Although similar in these ways to adult offenders, there remain unique features of adolescent violence.
  We know that the young tend to engage in more high-risk behaviors of all types. The research suggests that a familiar stereotype about kids is probably not true. Studies show that teenagers do not actually tend to view themselves as invulnerable or invincible, any more so than adults. Instead, kids are more likely to behave as if they are invincible because of immaturity, impulsivity and bad judgment. Lacking experience and being less mindful of obligations, responsibilities and consequences, they can display an indifference to risk and a sense of fearlessness that facilitates dangerous behavior.
   Values, attitudes and beliefs also contribute to violence. Many juveniles have learned or come to believe that aggression is a legitimate method for resolving various interpersonal problems and conflicts encountered in life. When provoked, they fight back or attack, never thinking that a simple act of battery might have a deadly outcome.
   Over the years, I have watched as the concept of “respect” has evolved in the youth culture. It is heard in the words of kids who say, “I respect them if they respect me” and those who explain their outbursts by saying, “He didn’t give me my respect.” I have come to view this as a particularly virulent and dangerous attitude, the idea that “respect” is a possession, an entitlement or a conditional offering. Sometimes teenagers kill while defending a sense of honor that they never earned or deserved.
   The defense of honor frequently interacts with group dynamics. For a variety of reasons, adolescents tend to roam in groups, often displaying the attitudes and trappings of gang culture, even if they are not actually organized, sophisticated and with criminal purpose. In a group, even loosely formed, individuals may engage in extreme behaviors that they might never have undertaken on their own. The phenomenon results from a “diffusion of responsibility.” In a crowd, individuals often abandon restraint and give vent to impulses because no one feels individually responsible. Violence in defense of the honor of the group is a common theme.
   There is a final element that can turn a simple confrontation into a deadly encounter. That is the possession of a weapon. I have heard it said time and again: The knife or gun was just for protection. It is rare that I have heard a juvenile admit that the gun made them feel powerful, but it is often clear that the weapon was carried for its emotional value, rather than for its use as a tool. And then, in response to some situation, the impulse and bad judgment come into play and the weapon is used.
   Patterns notwithstanding, what I have found is that every case is different. A psychologist’s purpose is to explain, not to judge. In responding to the threat of violence, the worst thing that we can do as a society is to fail to understand exactly what happened in any particular case. Sometimes we ignore facts out of fear that an explanation will be offered as an excuse. If we rely upon our preconceived notions about the causes of violence, rather than listening to what a particular individual was thinking and feeling at that particular moment, we will fail to learn what is most important: How do we as a society protect ourselves from violence?
**********
My only thought is within the condition of the act "Murder" - was it premeditated or was it a reaction within a moment that caused the death of another. ?? 
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Fanny Mae
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« Reply #221 on: November 18, 2009, 08:25:53 PM »

KOMU has a video up, right side of the page.  Be warned, the reporter is in the wrong profession IMO.   

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814
Monkey Devil! I have seen better reporters on the public access channels for Future Farmers of  America. She needs to borrow O's teleprompter.  Monkey Devil!


At first I thought she was going to lunge at the camera and by the end even the anchor looks to be glad she is done.  My opinion of KOMU has changed as they surely must be punking us.     Now I know why they don't want to use their technology for live streams.

Probably because nobody know how to use it!! They are not in exactly a high media area, and are just using these jobs for a step up to something better.  Have live-stream, no one to operate it. I wonder how MURT would like Missouri??  Monkey Devil!
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Jesus loves the little children, all the children in the world.
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
Fanny Mae
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« Reply #222 on: November 18, 2009, 08:28:40 PM »

I'm new here but have been reading for a while, and I just want to say thank God that the right thing was done today. Justice for this little girl will never be done here on earth, but judgement day will come and Alyssa will have to explain to God why it is that she hurt one of his most precious gifts. I have been praying about this case since it first hit the news, and although I hate what Alyssa has done, I do pray that she turns her heart to God someday, the most awful thing in all of this is that no punishment in the world can undo the hurt that was brought down upon elizabeth and her family, praying for you and those who have loved you little angel, may you be safe in the hands of Jesus

Welcome ARRIVDERCI!! 

We are getting so many new monkeys, I keep missing them.
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Jesus loves the little children, all the children in the world.
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
Northern Rose
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« Reply #223 on: November 18, 2009, 08:29:39 PM »

School officials discuss Bustamante

COLE COUNTY, MO. -- Both Elizabeth Olten and Alyssa Bustamante attended public schools in Jefferson City.

Olten was a third grader at Pioneer Trails Elementary School, Bustamante a sophomore at Jefferson City High School.

KRCG News asked school officials about Bustamante's life in the classroom.

The district doesn't have a lot to say when it comes to the subject of an alleged student murderer and her 9-year-old victim, other than she was a good student who seemed to stay out of trouble.

"The principal today made a comment to the effect that she was an above average student, made pretty good grades,” said district spokesperson David Luther.

The principal also said Bustamante never missed school and her latest mid-term grades were A's and B's and that she was even in some gifted classes.

We asked if there was any indication Bustamante was troubled at school, but due to privacy issues, were told the school couldn't comment.

Luther did say that things around both schools seemed to be getting back to normal.

"Classes have been fine,” said Luther. “Student behavior's been great.”

But getting back to normal won't happen overnight.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379226
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Fanny Mae
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« Reply #224 on: November 18, 2009, 08:30:35 PM »

Can anyone get on  http://www.abc17news.com/ .  My virus protection has blocked is as dangerous     It is one of the local stations and I am guessing they have something about the case up.

This is the video on that site:

<object classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" codebase="http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=9,0,0,0" width="300" height="230" id="kickWidget_33384_133167" ><param name="movie" value="http://serve.a-widget.com/service/getWidgetSwf.kickAction"></param><param name="FlashVars" value="affiliateSiteId=33384&widgetId=133167&width=300&height=230&playOnLoad=0&revision=30&kaShare=1&autoPlay=0&mediaURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc17news.com%2Frss%2Fstoryvideos.php%3Fid%3D15497" ></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent" ></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" ></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" ></param><embed src="http://serve.a-widget.com/service/getWidgetSwf.kickAction" name="kickWidget_33384_133167" width="300" height="230" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" allowScriptAccess="always" allowFullScreen="true" FlashVars="affiliateSiteId=33384&widgetId=133167&width=300&height=230&playOnLoad=0&revision=30&kaShare=1&autoPlay=0&mediaURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc17news.com%2Frss%2Fstoryvideos.php%3Fid%3D15497"></embed></object>

Hello, BERLIN! It won't play for me...
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Jesus loves the little children, all the children in the world.
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
klaasend
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« Reply #225 on: November 18, 2009, 08:34:17 PM »

Fanny - I don't think you're missing anything.  Most of the videos they are saying stuff we have already heard anyway.
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Fanny Mae
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« Reply #226 on: November 18, 2009, 08:39:57 PM »

School officials discuss Bustamante

COLE COUNTY, MO. -- Both Elizabeth Olten and Alyssa Bustamante attended public schools in Jefferson City.

Olten was a third grader at Pioneer Trails Elementary School, Bustamante a sophomore at Jefferson City High School.

KRCG News asked school officials about Bustamante's life in the classroom.

The district doesn't have a lot to say when it comes to the subject of an alleged student murderer and her 9-year-old victim, other than she was a good student who seemed to stay out of trouble.

"The principal today made a comment to the effect that she was an above average student, made pretty good grades,” said district spokesperson David Luther.

The principal also said Bustamante never missed school and her latest mid-term grades were A's and B's and that she was even in some gifted classes.

We asked if there was any indication Bustamante was troubled at school, but due to privacy issues, were told the school couldn't comment.

Luther did say that things around both schools seemed to be getting back to normal.

"Classes have been fine,” said Luther. “Student behavior's been great.”

But getting back to normal won't happen overnight.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379226


Oh I bet! "Classes have been fine, just fine." Isn't this the same school that the students were threatened with disciplinary action if they posted about the murder on their social networks or text messages?
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Jesus loves the little children, all the children in the world.
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
Fanny Mae
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« Reply #227 on: November 18, 2009, 08:41:44 PM »

Fanny - I don't think you're missing anything.  Most of the videos they are saying stuff we have already heard anyway.

Ok, thanks. That's what I thought. I didn't want to take the chance of seeing the reporter that looked like a deer in the headlights like the one NORTHERN ROSE posted anyway. 
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Jesus loves the little children, all the children in the world.
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
Fanny Mae
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« Reply #228 on: November 18, 2009, 08:43:55 PM »

Can anyone get on  http://www.abc17news.com/ .  My virus protection has blocked is as dangerous     It is one of the local stations and I am guessing they have something about the case up.

This is the video on that site:

<object classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" codebase="http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=9,0,0,0" width="300" height="230" id="kickWidget_33384_133167" ><param name="movie" value="http://serve.a-widget.com/service/getWidgetSwf.kickAction"></param><param name="FlashVars" value="affiliateSiteId=33384&widgetId=133167&width=300&height=230&playOnLoad=0&revision=30&kaShare=1&autoPlay=0&mediaURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc17news.com%2Frss%2Fstoryvideos.php%3Fid%3D15497" ></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent" ></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" ></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" ></param><embed src="http://serve.a-widget.com/service/getWidgetSwf.kickAction" name="kickWidget_33384_133167" width="300" height="230" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" allowScriptAccess="always" allowFullScreen="true" FlashVars="affiliateSiteId=33384&widgetId=133167&width=300&height=230&playOnLoad=0&revision=30&kaShare=1&autoPlay=0&mediaURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc17news.com%2Frss%2Fstoryvideos.php%3Fid%3D15497"></embed></object>

Thank you Klaas.  With Grandma being named by the media can we post the whole family tree and their associated court docs etc, other than the minors?
KLASS, did you see this post from NORTHERN ROSE? I'm blaming you NORTHERN! 
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Jesus loves the little children, all the children in the world.
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
jill
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« Reply #229 on: November 18, 2009, 08:47:28 PM »

national - front & center.  front page of foxnews.com:



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,575590,00.html
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ALWAYS protectkidz. 
Fanny Mae
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« Reply #230 on: November 18, 2009, 08:49:17 PM »

national - front & center.  front page of foxnews.com:



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,575590,00.html

I guess the feathers are all out of the pillow, and they aren't going back in again.
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Jesus loves the little children, all the children in the world.
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
Northern Rose
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« Reply #231 on: November 18, 2009, 08:49:55 PM »

School officials discuss Bustamante

COLE COUNTY, MO. -- Both Elizabeth Olten and Alyssa Bustamante attended public schools in Jefferson City.

Olten was a third grader at Pioneer Trails Elementary School, Bustamante a sophomore at Jefferson City High School.

KRCG News asked school officials about Bustamante's life in the classroom.

The district doesn't have a lot to say when it comes to the subject of an alleged student murderer and her 9-year-old victim, other than she was a good student who seemed to stay out of trouble.

"The principal today made a comment to the effect that she was an above average student, made pretty good grades,” said district spokesperson David Luther.

The principal also said Bustamante never missed school and her latest mid-term grades were A's and B's and that she was even in some gifted classes.

We asked if there was any indication Bustamante was troubled at school, but due to privacy issues, were told the school couldn't comment.

Luther did say that things around both schools seemed to be getting back to normal.

"Classes have been fine,” said Luther. “Student behavior's been great.”

But getting back to normal won't happen overnight.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379226


Oh I bet! "Classes have been fine, just fine." Isn't this the same school that the students were threatened with disciplinary action if they posted about the murder on their social networks or text messages?


Yes it was according to what we heard.  Also the same school that these students went to.  Does not look just fine to the students, or me.  If normal is getting texts about shootings that school has some serious issues IMO. 

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Fanny Mae
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« Reply #232 on: November 18, 2009, 08:52:38 PM »

School officials discuss Bustamante

COLE COUNTY, MO. -- Both Elizabeth Olten and Alyssa Bustamante attended public schools in Jefferson City.

Olten was a third grader at Pioneer Trails Elementary School, Bustamante a sophomore at Jefferson City High School.

KRCG News asked school officials about Bustamante's life in the classroom.

The district doesn't have a lot to say when it comes to the subject of an alleged student murderer and her 9-year-old victim, other than she was a good student who seemed to stay out of trouble.

"The principal today made a comment to the effect that she was an above average student, made pretty good grades,” said district spokesperson David Luther.

The principal also said Bustamante never missed school and her latest mid-term grades were A's and B's and that she was even in some gifted classes.

We asked if there was any indication Bustamante was troubled at school, but due to privacy issues, were told the school couldn't comment.

Luther did say that things around both schools seemed to be getting back to normal.

"Classes have been fine,” said Luther. “Student behavior's been great.”

But getting back to normal won't happen overnight.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379226


I have another issue with this article. Why was it that the principal could come to Public court and speak to her grades and behavior and anything that was positive, but could not say anything about any trouble because of privacy issues. Isn't her who record covered by the privacy issues? I am just having trouble with him testifying anyhow. JMO
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Jesus loves the little children, all the children in the world.
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
Northern Rose
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« Reply #233 on: November 18, 2009, 08:53:54 PM »

The talking head on NG needs to read some.  There were several articles today that stated that Grandma and a Juvenile servers worker were with the Monster when police were questioning her and she spilled the beans.  Her rights were not violated.  Elizabeth's rights were violated by the Monster.   
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klaasend
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« Reply #234 on: November 18, 2009, 08:54:00 PM »

Can anyone get on  http://www.abc17news.com/ .  My virus protection has blocked is as dangerous     It is one of the local stations and I am guessing they have something about the case up.

This is the video on that site:

<object classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" codebase="http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=9,0,0,0" width="300" height="230" id="kickWidget_33384_133167" ><param name="movie" value="http://serve.a-widget.com/service/getWidgetSwf.kickAction"></param><param name="FlashVars" value="affiliateSiteId=33384&widgetId=133167&width=300&height=230&playOnLoad=0&revision=30&kaShare=1&autoPlay=0&mediaURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc17news.com%2Frss%2Fstoryvideos.php%3Fid%3D15497" ></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent" ></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" ></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" ></param><embed src="http://serve.a-widget.com/service/getWidgetSwf.kickAction" name="kickWidget_33384_133167" width="300" height="230" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" allowScriptAccess="always" allowFullScreen="true" FlashVars="affiliateSiteId=33384&widgetId=133167&width=300&height=230&playOnLoad=0&revision=30&kaShare=1&autoPlay=0&mediaURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc17news.com%2Frss%2Fstoryvideos.php%3Fid%3D15497"></embed></object>

Thank you Klaas.  With Grandma being named by the media can we post the whole family tree and their associated court docs etc, other than the minors?
KLASS, did you see this post from NORTHERN ROSE? I'm blaming you NORTHERN! 


If Grandma has been named in the media then I say yes.  Just try and leave minor names out of it OK, other than Alyssa of course.
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Northern Rose
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« Reply #235 on: November 18, 2009, 08:56:35 PM »

Can anyone get on  http://www.abc17news.com/ .  My virus protection has blocked is as dangerous     It is one of the local stations and I am guessing they have something about the case up.

This is the video on that site:

<object classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" codebase="http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=9,0,0,0" width="300" height="230" id="kickWidget_33384_133167" ><param name="movie" value="http://serve.a-widget.com/service/getWidgetSwf.kickAction"></param><param name="FlashVars" value="affiliateSiteId=33384&widgetId=133167&width=300&height=230&playOnLoad=0&revision=30&kaShare=1&autoPlay=0&mediaURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc17news.com%2Frss%2Fstoryvideos.php%3Fid%3D15497" ></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent" ></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" ></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" ></param><embed src="http://serve.a-widget.com/service/getWidgetSwf.kickAction" name="kickWidget_33384_133167" width="300" height="230" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" allowScriptAccess="always" allowFullScreen="true" FlashVars="affiliateSiteId=33384&widgetId=133167&width=300&height=230&playOnLoad=0&revision=30&kaShare=1&autoPlay=0&mediaURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc17news.com%2Frss%2Fstoryvideos.php%3Fid%3D15497"></embed></object>

Thank you Klaas.  With Grandma being named by the media can we post the whole family tree and their associated court docs etc, other than the minors?
KLASS, did you see this post from NORTHERN ROSE? I'm blaming you NORTHERN! 


If Grandma has been named in the media then I say yes.  Just try and leave minor names out of it OK, other than Alyssa of course.


       

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Northern Rose
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« Reply #236 on: November 18, 2009, 09:03:12 PM »

Alyssa's Father
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« Reply #237 on: November 18, 2009, 09:11:45 PM »

Alyssa's mother and the daughter of Karen S Brooke (grandma)
Latest Court records.
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« Reply #238 on: November 18, 2009, 09:12:39 PM »

KOMU has a video up, right side of the page.  Be warned, the reporter is in the wrong profession IMO.   

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814
Monkey Devil! I have seen better reporters on the public access channels for Future Farmers of  America. She needs to borrow O's teleprompter.  Monkey Devil!


At first I thought she was going to lunge at the camera and by the end even the anchor looks to be glad she is done.  My opinion of KOMU has changed as they surely must be punking us.     Now I know why they don't want to use their technology for live streams.

Probably because nobody know how to use it!! They are not in exactly a high media area, and are just using these jobs for a step up to something better.  Have live-stream, no one to operate it. I wonder how MURT would like Missouri??  Monkey Devil!

Oh NO WAY!!!  Hush your mouth Fanny!!  We do not need MURT, thank you very much!!

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PUT ON YOUR BIG GIRL PANTIES AND GET OVER IT!  It's not about you or me.....It's about the Missing and the Murdered
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« Reply #239 on: November 18, 2009, 09:14:27 PM »

KOMU has a video up, right side of the page.  Be warned, the reporter is in the wrong profession IMO.   

http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814
Monkey Devil! I have seen better reporters on the public access channels for Future Farmers of  America. She needs to borrow O's teleprompter.  Monkey Devil!


At first I thought she was going to lunge at the camera and by the end even the anchor looks to be glad she is done.  My opinion of KOMU has changed as they surely must be punking us.     Now I know why they don't want to use their technology for live streams.
Monkey Devil!


Probably because nobody know how to use it!! They are not in exactly a high media area, and are just using these jobs for a step up to something better.  Have live-stream, no one to operate it. I wonder how MURT would like Missouri??  Monkey Devil!

Oh NO WAY!!!  Hush your mouth Fanny!!  We do not need MURT, thank you very much!!


Logged

Jesus loves the little children, all the children in the world.
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
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