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Author Topic: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -  (Read 183126 times)
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Fanny Mae
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« Reply #660 on: November 20, 2009, 01:37:34 AM »

I dont know if this article was posted   - is in yesterdays news release.

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The timing on that was pretty interesting. I am sure it did not help Alyssa's emotions and feeling about herself. I wonder what Grandma did to try to soothe her with this? It was also interesting that the mom was in court with the grandmother. I wonder where is granddad and her older half sister who lived with her?

I didn't think Alyssa had an older sister. I thought Michelle had a half sister (younger than her).

Who is Michelle?

Never mind. I answered my own question.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2011, 08:18:14 PM by MuffyBee » Logged

Jesus loves the little children, all the children in the world.
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
Deenie
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« Reply #661 on: November 20, 2009, 01:39:47 AM »

My bad I thought that Kat was Ab's Sister - is her Aunt. My Error.

I just found AB's Mom's birthdate - she was born in 1978 and AB was born in 1994.
Mom was 15/16 yrs of age when she had Alyssa. 

From the Cole County website - it is a PDF - the indictment Press Release for AB

http://www.colecopa.com/news/091118%20indictment.pdf

Says she has two charges. Count I Murder in the 1st Degree, Class A Felony Punishable up to Life no Parole
Count II Armed Criminal Action "Unclassified" Felony punishable 3 yrs an up.

What that for her carrying a concealed weapon with intent to cause bodily harm??
Does anyone know what the second count is ??



Yes it was for the knife, and I doubt if it was concealed for very long.

I found the answer. http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5710000015.HTM
Armed criminal action, defined, penalty.
((( first offense)))
571.015. 1. Except as provided in subsection 4 of this section, any person who commits any felony under the laws of this state by, with, or through the use, assistance, or aid of a dangerous instrument or deadly weapon is also guilty of the crime of armed criminal action and, upon conviction, shall be punished by imprisonment by the department of corrections and human resources for a term of not less than three years. The punishment imposed pursuant to this subsection shall be in addition to any punishment provided by law for the crime committed by, with, or through the use, assistance, or aid of a dangerous instrument or deadly weapon. No person convicted under this subsection shall be eligible for parole, probation, conditional release or suspended imposition or execution of sentence for a period of three calendar years

---
You start thinking omg could their be an incident of error by the courts/atty/LE that the charges get fuddled and she gets off with a lesser sentence. Sometimes it happens, we all it has happened. That's why I was interested in exactly what does this 2nd count charge mean.

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« Reply #662 on: November 20, 2009, 01:40:04 AM »

I dont know if this article was posted   - is in yesterdays news release.

BLOCKED WEBSITE

The timing on that was pretty interesting. I am sure it did not help Alyssa's emotions and feeling about herself. I wonder what Grandma did to try to soothe her with this? It was also interesting that the mom was in court with the grandmother. I wonder where is granddad and her older half sister who lived with her?

I didn't think Alyssa had an older sister. I thought Michelle had a half sister (younger than her).

Who is Michelle?

Michelle is Alyssa's mother and half sister of Kat P-N.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2011, 07:48:27 PM by MuffyBee » Logged
KarenK
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« Reply #663 on: November 20, 2009, 01:40:10 AM »

Thankyou so much everyone! I will make sure I do that. Hopefully, something may come out of it.

About the daycare getting closed that friday--Wasn't it Tom Smith that had said that the sign was down for a couple of months before that?

Just to clarify a few things, the sign for the day care has been down for a few months, not sure they have closed. Karen is still watching some children in the house, as of Tuesday this week. I have witnessed someone picking and dropping off their kids up to a few days ago. Kind of crazy why in the he!! someone would let her watch their kids.





I don't really Karen, but IMO you can't judge parenting ability based of what a child did. Lord knows my parents were great, but I managed to do illegal crap (not quite as bad as murder) without them knowing, and I did it because I wanted to try new things. Depending on how all the other children (and KNP) are, it is likely that I would continue to let her raise my kids while I was at work.

JMHO

I take it you know Karen Brooke very well. Tell us about how wonderful she is. Do you by chance have a picture of her?

Actually I don't know her at all. I was just saying. I love how noone here is allowed to post their opinion, unless it is the opinion of the general population. I don't understand why everyone always has to blame an adult in these types of cases. Take the Loveless case for example, everyone wanted to blame her parents at first. Fact is that kids sometimes do heinous things regardless of parenting.


But you seem like the type of person that wants to crucify every parent that has a child that does something illegal. JMO


Shinju - If they were so responsible why did they buy clothing for Alyssa and her brothers going back 2 years ago at least with skulls and goth styles? I certainly would not allow that especially since they were so "worried" about her adopting gothic styles.  Parents have a lot of influence. My son got into something when he was 16. I planted spyware on his computer and tracked his im's. Found out a lot and put an end to it. There is a lot that can be done, including sending her to a private academy.  They appear to have the money to do that. I explored that option myself.
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Fanny Mae
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« Reply #664 on: November 20, 2009, 01:43:29 AM »

I dont know if this article was posted   - is in yesterdays news release.

http://www.**/articles/2009/11/19/news_local/doc5a42local03bustamanteprofile09.txt

Two snips of interest:

David Cook, Cole County's chief juvenile officer, said Bustamante had a “higher IQ” and was “able to do her school work if she put her mind to it,” but who told family and counselors she was “bored at school.”
Cook also described the 15-year-old as “articulate and able to communicate clearly,” but also was “clever in the way she phrased things,” including leading her grandparents to believe she was going to a concert at a Jefferson City church when she really was traveling with a friend to a concert in St. Louis.

Other court records show Bustamante's mother, Michelle Bustamante, lived in Jefferson City public housing in 2005 and 2007, then in Lake Ozark in 2008 and in Crocker earlier this year.
Those records show the mother had some traffic tickets, legal battles over rent issues and three criminal convictions in misdemeanor cases - Miller County convictions in 2008 for driving while intoxicated and operating a vehicle in a careless and imprudent manner, and a Sept. 29, 2009, conviction in Dallas County for possessing less than 35 grams of marijuana.


I am sure that had to bring issues up in the House & Family that " Mom" was arrested yet again. Was just three weeks later that AB killed Elizabeth.

 

The timing on that was pretty interesting. I am sure it did not help Alyssa's emotions and feeling about herself. I wonder what Grandma did to try to soothe her with this? It was also interesting that the mom was in court with the grandmother. I wonder where is granddad and her older half sister who lived with her?

I didn't think Alyssa had an older sister. I thought Michelle had a half sister (younger than her).

Who is Michelle?

Michelle is Alyssa's mother and half sister of Kat P-N.

I know. I had a brain fart for a minute.   
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Jesus loves the little children, all the children in the world.
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
Fanny Mae
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« Reply #665 on: November 20, 2009, 01:45:48 AM »

My bad I thought that Kat was Ab's Sister - is her Aunt. My Error.

I just found AB's Mom's birthdate - she was born in 1978 and AB was born in 1994.
Mom was 15/16 yrs of age when she had Alyssa. 

From the Cole County website - it is a PDF - the indictment Press Release for AB

http://www.colecopa.com/news/091118%20indictment.pdf

Says she has two charges. Count I Murder in the 1st Degree, Class A Felony Punishable up to Life no Parole
Count II Armed Criminal Action "Unclassified" Felony punishable 3 yrs an up.

What that for her carrying a concealed weapon with intent to cause bodily harm??
Does anyone know what the second count is ??



Yes it was for the knife, and I doubt if it was concealed for very long.

I found the answer. http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5710000015.HTM
Armed criminal action, defined, penalty.
((( first offense)))
571.015. 1. Except as provided in subsection 4 of this section, any person who commits any felony under the laws of this state by, with, or through the use, assistance, or aid of a dangerous instrument or deadly weapon is also guilty of the crime of armed criminal action and, upon conviction, shall be punished by imprisonment by the department of corrections and human resources for a term of not less than three years. The punishment imposed pursuant to this subsection shall be in addition to any punishment provided by law for the crime committed by, with, or through the use, assistance, or aid of a dangerous instrument or deadly weapon. No person convicted under this subsection shall be eligible for parole, probation, conditional release or suspended imposition or execution of sentence for a period of three calendar years

---
You start thinking omg could their be an incident of error by the courts/atty/LE that the charges get fuddled and she gets off with a lesser sentence. Sometimes it happens, we all it has happened. That's why I was interested in exactly what does this 2nd count charge mean.



I am just sorry they have not piled on more charges. It is obvious that Missouri doesn't have the stomach or will to do it.
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Jesus loves the little children, all the children in the world.
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
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« Reply #666 on: November 20, 2009, 01:46:15 AM »

I wonder how involved Gary has been.  He worked out of town during the week so did he tune out the kids when he was home?  Did he get involved with discipline or did he figure this was baggage that Karen brought so it was up to her to deal with it all?  Very good question about why he was not in court.  I would think that with the events any employer would allow him time off to deal with things. Did they kids have any father figure?
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Deenie
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« Reply #667 on: November 20, 2009, 01:50:00 AM »

Hi KarenK
We have not met. So I say Hello to You.

This is sort of off topic but not really. I was watching HLN a short while back and they were talking about exactly what you just said about your son. This gal called in to talk to Mike G. And she said that her 12 year son was friends with the neighbor boy. And within the time spent together they were downloading porn from his Xbox. That they had hooked it up to the Neighbor Boys Home Pc and were downloading Porn and watching it. All Wireless. Can you imagine. This Mom did not have a computer in her house yet her son was watching Porn on their TV via wireless - through his Xbox. 

That what my daughter 19 told me too is that on her cell phone she can access her Face book and did ( with her myspace which she no longer uses) all her social accounts and does not have to login in at all. She goes through her phone, Again all wireless. I don't know how to do it myself.  It is all through her phone and aaah I feel so inept.

I just wonder how Savvy AB was with all her electronics and what really bothers is the speculation that AB lured EO with a call to her Cell phone back to the woods.

Makes you wonder.
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« Reply #668 on: November 20, 2009, 01:56:07 AM »

Hi KarenK
We have not met. So I say Hello to You.

This is sort of off topic but not really. I was watching HLN a short while back and they were talking about exactly what you just said about your son. This gal called in to talk to Mike G. And she said that her 12 year son was friends with the neighbor boy. And within the time spent together they were downloading porn from his Xbox. That they had hooked it up to the Neighbor Boys Home Pc and were downloading Porn and watching it. All Wireless. Can you imagine. This Mom did not have a computer in her house yet her son was watching Porn on their TV via wireless - through his Xbox. 

That what my daughter 19 told me too is that on her cell phone she can access her Face book and did ( with her myspace which she no longer uses) all her social accounts and does not have to login in at all. She goes through her phone, Again all wireless. I don't know how to do it myself.  It is all through her phone and aaah I feel so inept.

I just wonder how Savvy AB was with all her electronics and what really bothers is the speculation that AB lured EO with a call to her Cell phone back to the woods.

Makes you wonder.


I think Alyssa was very electronic savvy. Her YouTubes, Snap Sings, My Space. Twitter have all been posted. She had a cell phone, I am sure with all the bells and whistles. And it was reported by the media today that Elizabeth was on the way home, and Alyssa called her to come back.

Sorry, but I answered a question intended for KarenK.
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Jesus loves the little children, all the children in the world.
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
Fanny Mae
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« Reply #669 on: November 20, 2009, 01:58:05 AM »

I wonder how involved Gary has been.  He worked out of town during the week so did he tune out the kids when he was home?  Did he get involved with discipline or did he figure this was baggage that Karen brought so it was up to her to deal with it all?  Very good question about why he was not in court.  I would think that with the events any employer would allow him time off to deal with things. Did they kids have any father figure?

My impression is as little as possible. What befuddles me is that the first missing report we heard said the the Grandfather had been the one to send Elizabeth home. That has always rattled me, and made me wonder what was really going on at the house that night.
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Jesus loves the little children, all the children in the world.
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
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« Reply #670 on: November 20, 2009, 01:59:08 AM »

I wonder how involved Gary has been.  He worked out of town during the week so did he tune out the kids when he was home?  Did he get involved with discipline or did he figure this was baggage that Karen brought so it was up to her to deal with it all?  Very good question about why he was not in court.  I would think that with the events any employer would allow him time off to deal with things. Did they kids have any father figure?
Speaking of Father figure and all. Which is important for a child to have a male figure. Does not have to be Bio Dad. (( we all know that)) but when they showed on some of the news vids that were posted tonight here. They showed AB's families house and land, horses etc. They showed the house and how far back it sits off the road. What a LONG Driveway Holy Moly. I thought geez that really is not just a house. Its almost a working farm. Thinking of all the equipment/man power to maintain that property and the animals as well. Not to mention the money to maintain such a property and pay the mortgage/bills/and keep up with 4 growing kids... somebody had to be making some bones to keep all that going.

Maybe the Poor Guy wants to run away from HOME by now. I listened to the reporter state that the horses are gone. I wonder if they gave them up? or sent them away for their protection.  Poor Horses.
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« Reply #671 on: November 20, 2009, 02:00:16 AM »

Hi KarenK
We have not met. So I say Hello to You.

This is sort of off topic but not really. I was watching HLN a short while back and they were talking about exactly what you just said about your son. This gal called in to talk to Mike G. And she said that her 12 year son was friends with the neighbor boy. And within the time spent together they were downloading porn from his Xbox. That they had hooked it up to the Neighbor Boys Home Pc and were downloading Porn and watching it. All Wireless. Can you imagine. This Mom did not have a computer in her house yet her son was watching Porn on their TV via wireless - through his Xbox. 

That what my daughter 19 told me too is that on her cell phone she can access her Face book and did ( with her myspace which she no longer uses) all her social accounts and does not have to login in at all. She goes through her phone, Again all wireless. I don't know how to do it myself.  It is all through her phone and aaah I feel so inept.

I just wonder how Savvy AB was with all her electronics and what really bothers is the speculation that AB lured EO with a call to her Cell phone back to the woods.

Makes you wonder.


I think Alyssa was very electronic savvy. Her YouTubes, Snap Sings, My Space. Twitter have all been posted. She had a cell phone, I am sure with all the bells and whistles. And it was reported by the media today that Elizabeth was on the way home, and Alyssa called her to come back.

Sorry, but I answered a question intended for KarenK.
Northern you can answer anything U want 
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« Reply #672 on: November 20, 2009, 02:00:35 AM »

NORTHERN, I think the tea bag is working. I have sacrificed an Earl Grey black tea bag, so I may be able to get some sleep after all.

So I will say good night now, and I hope everyone has a very pleasant rest of the night/morning.
 an angelic monkey
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Jesus loves the little children, all the children in the world.
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
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« Reply #673 on: November 20, 2009, 02:02:59 AM »

NORTHERN, I think the tea bag is working. I have sacrificed an Earl Grey black tea bag, so I may be able to get some sleep after all.

So I will say good night now, and I hope everyone has a very pleasant rest of the night/morning.
 an angelic monkey
I found this awesome Tea Fanny - Green tea with acai berries - It is YUM .......
Sleep Well Ms. Fanny  an angelic monkey
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« Reply #674 on: November 20, 2009, 02:11:07 AM »

I am off to bed as well.  Good night and God Bless.
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« Reply #675 on: November 20, 2009, 02:11:47 AM »

I am off to bed as well.  Good night and God Bless.

  Me too Good Night Ms Northern ............... an angelic monkey
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« Reply #676 on: November 20, 2009, 02:24:21 AM »

Joy Behar Show  NOW  Nancy Grace
about this case!!!!

Thanks. But sorry. I wouldn't watch Joy Behar's show if my deceased mother was on her show. JMO

I can definitely do without Joy Behar!  However... I did watch the part of it in which NG appeared.... she is on the warpath about these two latest horrific crimes.... as are we all... I am having difficulty sleeping at night for the worry that there are people like this in the world and wondering how many there are..... ack! 
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Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me."
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« Reply #677 on: November 20, 2009, 02:27:17 AM »

It may have been my misunderstanding. Several posters stated they would not watch Joy Behar and I figured it was her political persuasion.  an angelic monkey

My dislike for the Joy Behar show has nada to do with her politics.  She just talks with no meaning and blathers on and on.  Most of the time, it appears she is just scripted and doesn't really know what she is talking about.  LOL... JMO of course.
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Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me."
KarenK
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« Reply #678 on: November 20, 2009, 02:29:24 AM »

 ::MonkeyAngel::So nice to meet you Deenie.   And Fannie Mae and Northern are some of the best here on Scared Monkeys. They can ALWAYS answer for me!!!!!  I don't know but they had taken her cellphone away. They could also not pay for Text messaging internet on the phone.That is ALL parental responsibility since they are paying the bills.   I am sorry but parents have to  be alert and in this case they already know this is an emotionally volatile child. All the more reason to monitor her very closely.  She should never have been alone with her brothers or sister or their friends unless adults were nearby. OBVIOUSLY  that was NOT the case.   
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« Reply #679 on: November 20, 2009, 02:38:58 AM »

Good night all! By the way Fannie Mae you would have enjoyed the JB show because Nancy really put her in her place. BAWAAAAAAAAAAH
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