Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -

[MunkeyMunk]

Look up what her Monkey name means...
[/quote]


 

[YourMom]

Shinju I sometimes wonder what side you are on.  You mean "young boys" can't also be abused by inmates and guards?   This "poor" girl needs special protection more than a boy?  I don't think so.

Look up what her Monkey name means...

Shinjū (心中, the characters for "mind" and "centre") means "double suicide" in Japanese, as in Shinjū ten no Amijima (Double Suicide at Amijima), written by the seventeenth-century tragedist Chikamatsu Monzaemon for the puppet theatre (bunraku and/or joruri theatre). In common parlance Shinju is used to refer to any group suicide of persons bound by love, typically lovers, parents and children, and even whole families. In Japanese theatre and literary tradition, double suicides are the simultaneous suicides of two lovers whose ninjo, "personal feelings", or love for one another are at odds with giri, "social conventions" or familial obligations. Double suicides were, and still are[citation needed], rather common in Japan throughout history and double suicide is an important theme of the puppet theatre repertory. The tragic denouement is usually known from the audience and is preceded by a michiyuki, a small poetical journey, where lovers evoke the happier moments of their lives and their attempts at loving each other.

Lovers committing double suicide believed that they would be united again in heaven, a view supported by feudal teaching in Edo period Japan, which taught that the bond between husband and wife is continued into the next world[1], and by the teaching of Pure Land Buddhism wherein it is believed that through double suicide, one can approach rebirth in the Pure Land[2]

[Shinju]

I got my name from a theme present in bunraku theater (which i love). It is present throughout several bunraku plays, and i happen to love Shinjū ten no Amijima. I find it romantic, and heartbreaking, much like a japanese titanic. I also happen to like the way the word sounds.

[YourMom]

got that from wikipedia, btw.  Nothing more serious then Romeo and Juliet.  I am not shocked or offended.

[Fanny Mae]

Shinju I sometimes wonder what side you are on.  You mean "young boys" can't also be abused by inmates and guards?   This "poor" girl needs special protection more than a boy?  I don't think so.

Look up what her Monkey name means...

Shinjū (心中, the characters for "mind" and "centre") means "double suicide" in Japanese, as in Shinjū ten no Amijima (Double Suicide at Amijima), written by the seventeenth-century tragedist Chikamatsu Monzaemon for the puppet theatre (bunraku and/or joruri theatre). In common parlance Shinju is used to refer to any group suicide of persons bound by love, typically lovers, parents and children, and even whole families. In Japanese theatre and literary tradition, double suicides are the simultaneous suicides of two lovers whose ninjo, "personal feelings", or love for one another are at odds with giri, "social conventions" or familial obligations. Double suicides were, and still are[citation needed], rather common in Japan throughout history and double suicide is an important theme of the puppet theatre repertory. The tragic denouement is usually known from the audience and is preceded by a michiyuki, a small poetical journey, where lovers evoke the happier moments of their lives and their attempts at loving each other.

Lovers committing double suicide believed that they would be united again in heaven, a view supported by feudal teaching in Edo period Japan, which taught that the bond between husband and wife is continued into the next world[1], and by the teaching of Pure Land Buddhism wherein it is believed that through double suicide, one can approach rebirth in the Pure Land[2]

SHINJU, does this mean you are a little on the emo, goth side?

[KarenK]

Shinju I sometimes wonder what side you are on.  You mean "young boys" can't also be abused by inmates and guards?   This "poor" girl needs special protection more than a boy?  I don't think so.

I was answering why it's uncharted water. When a juvenile goes to an adult male facility there is a special cell block that is filled with fellow minors to help protect him from older inmates and SOME of the abuse from guards. There is no special cell block for female minors in missouri, thus it is uncharted water because she is more likely to be raped by guards and other inmates. In addition, she will be placed into the cell block that specifically contains physically bigger adult murders, thus putting her at a much greater risk of being abused (physically and sexually).  The juvenile system has made it clear their facilities can not hold or help her.

I'm not saying she deserves more protection, I'm just stating that the same protection does not exist.  I'm not even sure if she deserves the same protection.

Actually now that I think about it, I'm a fan of throwing her in with the other murders and convicts convicted of violent crimes. Maybe she'll get what she deserves in there.

AWWW there you go Shinju!!!! Now I am your newest biggest fan. Thank you!

[YourMom]

Shinju I sometimes wonder what side you are on.  You mean "young boys" can't also be abused by inmates and guards?   This "poor" girl needs special protection more than a boy?  I don't think so.

Look up what her Monkey name means...

Shinjū (心中, the characters for "mind" and "centre") means "double suicide" in Japanese, as in Shinjū ten no Amijima (Double Suicide at Amijima), written by the seventeenth-century tragedist Chikamatsu Monzaemon for the puppet theatre (bunraku and/or joruri theatre). In common parlance Shinju is used to refer to any group suicide of persons bound by love, typically lovers, parents and children, and even whole families. In Japanese theatre and literary tradition, double suicides are the simultaneous suicides of two lovers whose ninjo, "personal feelings", or love for one another are at odds with giri, "social conventions" or familial obligations. Double suicides were, and still are[citation needed], rather common in Japan throughout history and double suicide is an important theme of the puppet theatre repertory. The tragic denouement is usually known from the audience and is preceded by a michiyuki, a small poetical journey, where lovers evoke the happier moments of their lives and their attempts at loving each other.

Lovers committing double suicide believed that they would be united again in heaven, a view supported by feudal teaching in Edo period Japan, which taught that the bond between husband and wife is continued into the next world[1], and by the teaching of Pure Land Buddhism wherein it is believed that through double suicide, one can approach rebirth in the Pure Land[2]

SHINJU, does this mean you are a little on the emo, goth side?

I wouldn't think so.  That would be like if Bill Shakespeare was emo.....lol

[YourMom]

I am still interested in Bill Currie.  I still think there is a connection.  Anyone done any further looking into it?  Or find out what the book was about?

[Shinju]

Shinju I sometimes wonder what side you are on.  You mean "young boys" can't also be abused by inmates and guards?   This "poor" girl needs special protection more than a boy?  I don't think so.

Look up what her Monkey name means...

Shinjū (心中, the characters for "mind" and "centre") means "double suicide" in Japanese, as in Shinjū ten no Amijima (Double Suicide at Amijima), written by the seventeenth-century tragedist Chikamatsu Monzaemon for the puppet theatre (bunraku and/or joruri theatre). In common parlance Shinju is used to refer to any group suicide of persons bound by love, typically lovers, parents and children, and even whole families. In Japanese theatre and literary tradition, double suicides are the simultaneous suicides of two lovers whose ninjo, "personal feelings", or love for one another are at odds with giri, "social conventions" or familial obligations. Double suicides were, and still are[citation needed], rather common in Japan throughout history and double suicide is an important theme of the puppet theatre repertory. The tragic denouement is usually known from the audience and is preceded by a michiyuki, a small poetical journey, where lovers evoke the happier moments of their lives and their attempts at loving each other.

Lovers committing double suicide believed that they would be united again in heaven, a view supported by feudal teaching in Edo period Japan, which taught that the bond between husband and wife is continued into the next world[1], and by the teaching of Pure Land Buddhism wherein it is believed that through double suicide, one can approach rebirth in the Pure Land[2]

SHINJU, does this mean you are a little on the emo, goth side?

No. Lol. I'm pretty much the exact opposite, but I did take an interest in japanese culture and language while in high school. Everyone should see bunraku bay puppet troupe its awesome.

[Fanny Mae]

Shinju I sometimes wonder what side you are on.  You mean "young boys" can't also be abused by inmates and guards?   This "poor" girl needs special protection more than a boy?  I don't think so.

Look up what her Monkey name means...

Shinjū (心中, the characters for "mind" and "centre") means "double suicide" in Japanese, as in Shinjū ten no Amijima (Double Suicide at Amijima), written by the seventeenth-century tragedist Chikamatsu Monzaemon for the puppet theatre (bunraku and/or joruri theatre). In common parlance Shinju is used to refer to any group suicide of persons bound by love, typically lovers, parents and children, and even whole families. In Japanese theatre and literary tradition, double suicides are the simultaneous suicides of two lovers whose ninjo, "personal feelings", or love for one another are at odds with giri, "social conventions" or familial obligations. Double suicides were, and still are[citation needed], rather common in Japan throughout history and double suicide is an important theme of the puppet theatre repertory. The tragic denouement is usually known from the audience and is preceded by a michiyuki, a small poetical journey, where lovers evoke the happier moments of their lives and their attempts at loving each other.

Lovers committing double suicide believed that they would be united again in heaven, a view supported by feudal teaching in Edo period Japan, which taught that the bond between husband and wife is continued into the next world[1], and by the teaching of Pure Land Buddhism wherein it is believed that through double suicide, one can approach rebirth in the Pure Land[2]

SHINJU, does this mean you are a little on the emo, goth side?

No. Lol. I'm pretty much the exact opposite, but I did take an interest in japanese culture and language while in high school. Everyone should see bunraku bay puppet troupe its awesome.

I understand about the Japanese part, and the Bunraku Bay Puppet troupe. I just don't understand why you would pick that particular name.

[Fanny Mae]

I am still interested in Bill Currie.  I still think there is a connection.  Anyone done any further looking into it?  Or find out what the book was about?

I dug around quite a bit, and so did some other Monkeys. I am not really sure that was the same Bill Currie. The bio DOB didn't match.

[YourMom]

Here is a little entry a former student wrote about Bill Currie, also a picture of him, if you are interested.  Not at all what I imagined.....

http://sjanephotography.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/remembering-bill-currie-as-the-world-moves-on/

[Txsflame]

Have I completely lost it, but didn't we find a teenage juvenile BOY who had been certified an adult and tried for murder in the Missouri area? I wonder why they are saying they are in "unchartered waters?" Because she is "this particular girl?"

This is "uncharted waters" because Missouri hasn't had to this for a female (I believe) and also I believe there are no correctional facilities for juvenile females that have been certified adults for murder.

And she is the "only girl" that has ever been certified as an adult in the state of Missouri for a criminal act? I find that hard to believe. JMO

Juvenile system has nowhere for her to go since she is charged with murder 1. they can't keep her safe from herself/other inmates. When a boy does this they put him into an adult correctional facility in a division just for minors (typically all have violent acts on their record). The prisons for women have no area like this. they try to keep the minor seperated because they are more likely to be sexually abused by guards and other inmates.

It is call ad seg..or adminstrative segragation... or protected custody, and YES it is in the BIG GIRLS prisons, where 15 year olds that kill 9 year old INNOCENT little girls belong. They are locked up 23 hrs a day and allowed "rec" time for 1 hr completely by themselves and alone. Which if they kill innocent kids, is where they need to be completely alone for the rest of their life.

[arrivaderci]

Shinju I sometimes wonder what side you are on.  You mean "young boys" can't also be abused by inmates and guards?   This "poor" girl needs special protection more than a boy?  I don't think so.

I was answering why it's uncharted water. When a juvenile goes to an adult male facility there is a special cell block that is filled with fellow minors to help protect him from older inmates and SOME of the abuse from guards. There is no special cell block for female minors in missouri, thus it is uncharted water because she is more likely to be raped by guards and other inmates. In addition, she will be placed into the cell block that specifically contains physically bigger adult murders, thus putting her at a much greater risk of being abused (physically and sexually).  The juvenile system has made it clear their facilities can not hold or help her.

I'm not saying she deserves more protection, I'm just stating that the same protection does not exist.  I'm not even sure if she deserves the same protection.

Actually now that I think about it, I'm a fan of throwing her in with the other murders and convicts convicted of violent crimes. Maybe she'll get what she deserves in there.

AWWW there you go Shinju!!!! Now I am your newest biggest fan. Thank you!

I have to say I don't agree with allowing this girl to be tortured or raped, no matter what heinous acts she may have commited, and I do understand that no one here is saying that these things WILL OR SHOULD happen to her in there, but yes the possibility exists. Do I think she deserves special protection..of course not. IMO we should not wish these things upon this girl though, or anybody for that matter..What I do hope for is that she does find our savior through this, and her heart is turned to good. I think she should be detained until 21 and put to death for her crime in a humane way. (BTW, I know this will not happen) I am not a fan of holding prisoners in their cells for the rest of their lives where taxpayer money funds their education, and meals, while mean while, our innocent die on the streets..
IMO anyone who commits a henious crime, such as this should be made an immediate appointment with GOD (executed humanely). Those who commit crimes such as this one cannot be rehabilitated, it has been proven time and time again.

Also I know this is off topic, but please everybody remember Brianna Lopez, another angel taken far too soon.

[Fanny Mae]

Here is a little entry a former student wrote about Bill Currie, also a picture of him, if you are interested.  Not at all what I imagined.....

http://sjanephotography.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/remembering-bill-currie-as-the-world-moves-on/

I have seen a picture of him before, but that was a really nice article written by his ex-student.
Thanks. 

[Fanny Mae]

I got my name from a theme present in bunraku theater (which i love). It is present throughout several bunraku plays, and i happen to love Shinjū ten no Amijima. I find it romantic, and heartbreaking, much like a japanese titanic. I also happen to like the way the word sounds.

"Double Suicide." Sounds a little black to me to be romantic. JMO

But then, I wasn't a big fan of Romeo and Juliette either. 

[Northern Rose]

Posted by Mental Health Worker, Fulton - Friday, November 20, 2009 at 2:44 p.m.
 
The Department of Mental Health will file for a longer stay so they can evaluate her longer. I see this happen all the time. It never stays at 96 hours. She will be at the hospital for months if not a year or two or longer until the hospital and her “private” doctors decide she is “competent” to stand trial. If she is never found to be “competent” then the Judge will say she is NGRI (Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity). This is the ultimate goal her attorney is after. If she gets her NGRI the Judge will commit her to the care of the hospital until a panel of doctors determines she is “cured” or can live in the community, most likely supervised. This process can be as little as 6 years or as much as 25 or longer if need be. But in the eyes of her attorney this is better than the death penalty or life behind bars! And most persons prefer the stay at the “Hospital” instead of “Prison” because they are not treated like “Prisoners” but rather “Patients”. And don’t even get me started on that! News 8 just did a story on employee injuries at the hospital….
 
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=380191

[Fanny Mae]

Shinju I sometimes wonder what side you are on.  You mean "young boys" can't also be abused by inmates and guards?   This "poor" girl needs special protection more than a boy?  I don't think so.

I was answering why it's uncharted water. When a juvenile goes to an adult male facility there is a special cell block that is filled with fellow minors to help protect him from older inmates and SOME of the abuse from guards. There is no special cell block for female minors in missouri, thus it is uncharted water because she is more likely to be raped by guards and other inmates. In addition, she will be placed into the cell block that specifically contains physically bigger adult murders, thus putting her at a much greater risk of being abused (physically and sexually).  The juvenile system has made it clear their facilities can not hold or help her.

I'm not saying she deserves more protection, I'm just stating that the same protection does not exist.  I'm not even sure if she deserves the same protection.

Actually now that I think about it, I'm a fan of throwing her in with the other murders and convicts convicted of violent crimes. Maybe she'll get what she deserves in there.

AWWW there you go Shinju!!!! Now I am your newest biggest fan. Thank you!

I have to say I don't agree with allowing this girl to be tortured or raped, no matter what heinous acts she may have commited, and I do understand that no one here is saying that these things WILL OR SHOULD happen to her in there, but yes the possibility exists. Do I think she deserves special protection..of course not. IMO we should not wish these things upon this girl though, or anybody for that matter..What I do hope for is that she does find our savior through this, and her heart is turned to good. I think she should be detained until 21 and put to death for her crime in a humane way. (BTW, I know this will not happen) I am not a fan of holding prisoners in their cells for the rest of their lives where taxpayer money funds their education, and meals, while mean while, our innocent die on the streets..
IMO anyone who commits a henious crime, such as this should be made an immediate appointment with GOD (executed humanely). Those who commit crimes such as this one cannot be rehabilitated, it has been proven time and time again.

Also I know this is off topic, but please everybody remember Brianna Lopez, another angel taken far too soon.

My whole focus is Alyssa should not be treated like "this particular (ie: special) girl." She is not special, she is an aberration of a human being. A 15 yr old that thrill killed a 9 yr old to see how it felt. I have no doubt she had the capacity at any point not to do it, but she didn't. She lay in her bed and planned this thing in her mind. She savored it. She is probably savoring it now, except the getting caught is not what she was planning.

 There were adults around her everyday she could have gone to and said I am having these thoughts and I need help. But she did not. She told her Best Bud who's dad said they knew she was talking about seeing what it felt like to kill someone but that was just kids. DUH!!

I went to Brianna's MySpace, and her's was a truly awful story and so typical that it is still going on even today. My condolences to her family and to you. 

[nana0567]

Have I completely lost it, but didn't we find a teenage juvenile BOY who had been certified an adult and tried for murder in the Missouri area? I wonder why they are saying they are in "unchartered waters?" Because she is "this particular girl?"

This is "uncharted waters" because Missouri hasn't had to this for a female (I believe) and also I believe there are no correctional facilities for juvenile females that have been certified adults for murder.

And she is the "only girl" that has ever been certified as an adult in the state of Missouri for a criminal act? I find that hard to believe. JMO

Juvenile system has nowhere for her to go since she is charged with murder 1. they can't keep her safe from herself/other inmates. When a boy does this they put him into an adult correctional facility in a division just for minors (typically all have violent acts on their record). The prisons for women have no area like this. they try to keep the minor seperated because they are more likely to be sexually abused by guards and other inmates.

It is call ad seg..or adminstrative segragation... or protected custody, and YES it is in the BIG GIRLS prisons, where 15 year olds that kill 9 year old INNOCENT little girls belong. They are locked up 23 hrs a day and allowed "rec" time for 1 hr completely by themselves and alone. Which if they kill innocent kids, is where they need to be completely alone for the rest of their life.

Right on Txsflame, I couldn't of said it better myself.

[yorkiemom]

I agree she shouldn't get special treatment.  I worked at the FSH a few years ago and they all really get treated better than patients.  They get to go off their wards to different activities once they have earned a pass which doesn't take much.  Anyone can easily fool the staff and doctors to get a pass since most of them aren't mentally ill.  Their lawyers have worked the system and got them placed there.  They have more rights than you and I.  We've always said there's more mentally ill people walking the streets than at the state hospital.  They know they can get by with "murder" with the staff and nothing will happen to them since they are already considered "mentally ill".     When I worked there we couldn't have anyone under the age of 17 6 months but things might have changed now.