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Author Topic: Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -  (Read 185539 times)
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Fanny Mae
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« Reply #440 on: November 19, 2009, 12:31:21 PM »

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« Reply #441 on: November 19, 2009, 12:31:27 PM »

This is totally off topic but is it possible to start a thread on your own or do we need to contact an admin? My friend's brother was murdered and it's a cold case and thought maybe some of the monkeys here could check it out.


I'm wondering also if things were getting worse with Alyssa and that's why Karen closed the daycare. There must be a reason she did that.





Anyone can start a thread. Just go to the place you want to start it, and there is a tab at the top to start a thread. I'm not exactly sure what to put it under though. Maybe someone else could tell you that.

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« Reply #442 on: November 19, 2009, 12:32:19 PM »

Fanny, I do not think that Sheriff White had a CLUE where Elizabeth was.

BUT, I do believe that Sheriff White was well aware that he had problems in his jurisdiction that were routinely shoveled under the carpet - and that this situation could very well blow the lid off of all of it.

Hence, he chose to close this investigation up tighter than a drum to where only the State Highway Patrol was lead next to him.

He did NOT comb those woods as if he knew she could be there - if he knew she could be there, he would've had men out there 24/7 til she was found, instead of checking the area a couple of times.

Sorry, but this is my opinion.  The man is an elected official with no real law enforcement experience, sitting on a hornet's nest of cover-ups.

We usually are on the same page, but I have to disagree about Sheriff White. He was not inexperienced as he had run for sheriff in 2004 and was appointed in 2005 when the previous sheriff committed suicide after being in office for only two weeks. I look up the crime stats for Cole County a bit back, and he was a very busy man. Before that he had been a school resource officer for 13 yrs. I think this is a man that knows kids.

When the people were not home in the house where she was last seen should have put up red flags all over the place. I don't think the whole family piled in the car to take Alyssa to St Louis. Someone must have been there and said something.

He said on Thursday he didn't need so many searchers. Why? Because the were focused on a small area, otherwise they would have used them all every place they could search. I don't think the State Police (I hate it when the media refers to them as the Highway Patrol..it makes it seem like a traffic officer is handling the case.) took over the case until they got the info about the written stuff. But that is just my opinion.

And if Sheriff White folded because thing usually get swept under the rug, well shame on him! I think he will be going down with the proverbial ship. JMO


If I am incorrect re: the reason for his choices, I will apologize immediately as I am ALWAYS on the side of law enforcement and have much respect.

But things are not adding up to me.

Yes, Alyssa is a minor and yes, she was immediately taken to a hospital which could have very well limited LE's access to her.

BUT - White made conflicting statements during those 3 days - and the reports I heard as to where the searches were taking place indicate to me that finding her on Oct. 23 - the location seemed to be a big surprise to him.

Now, I've seen other smallish LE agencies handle missing/murdered investigations - but never seen them make sweeping statements to media such as: at this time we have no reason to believe she's been abducted, at this time we have no reason to believe that foul play is involved, at this time we believe she may be out of the state - but we are not issuing an Amber because we don't know if she's been abducted.

My thoughts then were:  hello!  She's 9!  She didn't go on a cruise!

He was offered the services of the FBI, but as far as I know FBI didn't interview the family, Alyssa's.  Maybe if the FBI did interview the family they would have noticed a couple of people not in attendance.

I'm just sayin.  Yes, he'd been sheriff for 4 years - but how many missing people investigations had he led?  And as far as what the JeffCity locals have been posting - that there is stuff going on that is not publicized - not even for the protection of the public.

So many of the JeffCity folks truly believe that this situation will be glossed over - that the full truth will never be known.

I just hope to God that she was not buried alive, that she did not lay there suffering hearing people call her name....
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Fanny Mae
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« Reply #443 on: November 19, 2009, 12:33:22 PM »

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« Reply #444 on: November 19, 2009, 12:34:08 PM »

This is totally off topic but is it possible to start a thread on your own or do we need to contact an admin? My friend's brother was murdered and it's a cold case and thought maybe some of the monkeys here could check it out.


I'm wondering also if things were getting worse with Alyssa and that's why Karen closed the daycare. There must be a reason she did that.





Sorry, I was out for a bit.  You can start a thread on your own in the Missing Persons area.  I'm sure there are many members here that would like to see what they can do for your friend.
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Fanny Mae
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« Reply #445 on: November 19, 2009, 12:35:05 PM »

This is totally off topic but is it possible to start a thread on your own or do we need to contact an admin? My friend's brother was murdered and it's a cold case and thought maybe some of the monkeys here could check it out.


I'm wondering also if things were getting worse with Alyssa and that's why Karen closed the daycare. There must be a reason she did that.





Anyone can start a thread. Just go to the place you want to start it, and there is a tab at the top to start a thread. I'm not exactly sure what to put it under though. Maybe someone else could tell you that.

Jinx   an angelic monkey
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Jesus loves the little children, all the children in the world.
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

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« Reply #446 on: November 19, 2009, 12:35:54 PM »

This is totally off topic but is it possible to start a thread on your own or do we need to contact an admin? My friend's brother was murdered and it's a cold case and thought maybe some of the monkeys here could check it out.


I'm wondering also if things were getting worse with Alyssa and that's why Karen closed the daycare. There must be a reason she did that.





The daycare was open until that Friday.  A friend had taken her child there up until that Friday. 

Hope I did this right, I'm a newbie!   

You friend must have been shocked when word started getting out.  If Karen took Alyssa to the mental hospital on Wednesday night, who was looking after the kids in the daycare on Thursday? Kat has been working towards being a hairdresser and Gary worked out of town most weeks.
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« Reply #447 on: November 19, 2009, 12:38:28 PM »

Thankyou so much everyone! I will make sure I do that. Hopefully, something may come out of it.

About the daycare getting closed that friday--Wasn't it Tom Smith that had said that the sign was down for a couple of months before that?
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Cops say Stephen Spina, 36, was found stabbed to death in his apartment in Mamaroneck, New York on September 17, 2007. Killer is still at large. http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=57396 
Fanny Mae
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« Reply #448 on: November 19, 2009, 12:39:31 PM »

Fanny, I do not think that Sheriff White had a CLUE where Elizabeth was.

BUT, I do believe that Sheriff White was well aware that he had problems in his jurisdiction that were routinely shoveled under the carpet - and that this situation could very well blow the lid off of all of it.

Hence, he chose to close this investigation up tighter than a drum to where only the State Highway Patrol was lead next to him.

He did NOT comb those woods as if he knew she could be there - if he knew she could be there, he would've had men out there 24/7 til she was found, instead of checking the area a couple of times.

Sorry, but this is my opinion.  The man is an elected official with no real law enforcement experience, sitting on a hornet's nest of cover-ups.

We usually are on the same page, but I have to disagree about Sheriff White. He was not inexperienced as he had run for sheriff in 2004 and was appointed in 2005 when the previous sheriff committed suicide after being in office for only two weeks. I look up the crime stats for Cole County a bit back, and he was a very busy man. Before that he had been a school resource officer for 13 yrs. I think this is a man that knows kids.

When the people were not home in the house where she was last seen should have put up red flags all over the place. I don't think the whole family piled in the car to take Alyssa to St Louis. Someone must have been there and said something.

He said on Thursday he didn't need so many searchers. Why? Because the were focused on a small area, otherwise they would have used them all every place they could search. I don't think the State Police (I hate it when the media refers to them as the Highway Patrol..it makes it seem like a traffic officer is handling the case.) took over the case until they got the info about the written stuff. But that is just my opinion.

And if Sheriff White folded because thing usually get swept under the rug, well shame on him! I think he will be going down with the proverbial ship. JMO


If I am incorrect re: the reason for his choices, I will apologize immediately as I am ALWAYS on the side of law enforcement and have much respect.

But things are not adding up to me.

Yes, Alyssa is a minor and yes, she was immediately taken to a hospital which could have very well limited LE's access to her.

BUT - White made conflicting statements during those 3 days - and the reports I heard as to where the searches were taking place indicate to me that finding her on Oct. 23 - the location seemed to be a big surprise to him.

Now, I've seen other smallish LE agencies handle missing/murdered investigations - but never seen them make sweeping statements to media such as: at this time we have no reason to believe she's been abducted, at this time we have no reason to believe that foul play is involved, at this time we believe she may be out of the state - but we are not issuing an Amber because we don't know if she's been abducted.

My thoughts then were:  hello!  She's 9!  She didn't go on a cruise!

He was offered the services of the FBI, but as far as I know FBI didn't interview the family, Alyssa's.  Maybe if the FBI did interview the family they would have noticed a couple of people not in attendance.

I'm just sayin.  Yes, he'd been sheriff for 4 years - but how many missing people investigations had he led?  And as far as what the JeffCity locals have been posting - that there is stuff going on that is not publicized - not even for the protection of the public.

So many of the JeffCity folks truly believe that this situation will be glossed over - that the full truth will never be known.

I just hope to God that she was not buried alive, that she did not lay there suffering hearing people call her name....

I am generally on LE's side too, since I worked at one time for LE. But I have also seen, the good, the bad and the ugly. This investigation falls within the last two as far as I am concerned, and for some of the very reasons you posted.
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Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

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« Reply #449 on: November 19, 2009, 12:40:57 PM »

Thankyou so much everyone! I will make sure I do that. Hopefully, something may come out of it.

About the daycare getting closed that friday--Wasn't it Tom Smith that had said that the sign was down for a couple of months before that?

Yes he did, but it could have been because she was not/could not take any more children because of the ratio for caretakers to children. Just a guess on my part.
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Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
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« Reply #450 on: November 19, 2009, 12:46:43 PM »

Ok - here are my thoughts on the grandparents whisking her off to a mental hospital - they are IMO only.  It would be hard to imagine your child/grandchild doing such a horrible thing. I do not think that Alyssa came home covered with blood - I suspect she came home and sneaked in. She dug the graves and was into the violent scene so she knew it would be messy and had the foresight to plan for the clean up. I am sure that the GP new that she was up to something - just not what exactly she was up to. I am not defending them - but what the he!! do you do with a kid that scares you to death and you know (even if you will not admit it) had something to do with a missing little girl? Will you be next on her list of kills?

I am sure these grandparents were at a complete loss - torn between the horror of what they suspected and the instinctual need to protect your children. What we do not know is if they called her psychiatrist/therapist and were told to take her to the hospital. How many of us, truth be told, would not do exactly what a doctor told us in the horror and fear these people must have felt?  They knew there was no way to undo whatever had been done - it was all about protecting them and theres.

I know from personal experience that when your child does a terrible thing, you can not think straight - my hubby would personally string up anyone that hurt his kids - but when it was his kid that did a terrible thing he lost perspective. He just operated from what outside people told him to do. it is a lot like post traumatic fog.

This in NO WAY excuses the scum for what she did to Elizabeth. It in NO WAY excuses what the grandparents did by "hiding" her and not helping in the investigation. It is just a look from the other side. Personally, I do not know what I would do if it was my kid. I would like to think I would do the right thing - but until I am there I do not know.
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« Reply #451 on: November 19, 2009, 12:51:58 PM »

Ok - here are my thoughts on the grandparents whisking her off to a mental hospital - they are IMO only.  It would be hard to imagine your child/grandchild doing such a horrible thing. I do not think that Alyssa came home covered with blood - I suspect she came home and sneaked in. She dug the graves and was into the violent scene so she knew it would be messy and had the foresight to plan for the clean up. I am sure that the GP new that she was up to something - just not what exactly she was up to. I am not defending them - but what the he!! do you do with a kid that scares you to death and you know (even if you will not admit it) had something to do with a missing little girl? Will you be next on her list of kills?

I am sure these grandparents were at a complete loss - torn between the horror of what they suspected and the instinctual need to protect your children. What we do not know is if they called her psychiatrist/therapist and were told to take her to the hospital. How many of us, truth be told, would not do exactly what a doctor told us in the horror and fear these people must have felt?  They knew there was no way to undo whatever had been done - it was all about protecting them and theres.

I know from personal experience that when your child does a terrible thing, you can not think straight - my hubby would personally string up anyone that hurt his kids - but when it was his kid that did a terrible thing he lost perspective. He just operated from what outside people told him to do. it is a lot like post traumatic fog.

This in NO WAY excuses the scum for what she did to Elizabeth. It in NO WAY excuses what the grandparents did by "hiding" her and not helping in the investigation. It is just a look from the other side. Personally, I do not know what I would do if it was my kid. I would like to think I would do the right thing - but until I am there I do not know.

There is a lot of truth in what you say.....
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« Reply #452 on: November 19, 2009, 12:54:17 PM »

This is totally off topic but is it possible to start a thread on your own or do we need to contact an admin? My friend's brother was murdered and it's a cold case and thought maybe some of the monkeys here could check it out.


I'm wondering also if things were getting worse with Alyssa and that's why Karen closed the daycare. There must be a reason she did that.





The daycare was open until that Friday.  A friend had taken her child there up until that Friday. 

Hope I did this right, I'm a newbie!   

You friend must have been shocked when word started getting out.  If Karen took Alyssa to the mental hospital on Wednesday night, who was looking after the kids in the daycare on Thursday? Kat has been working towards being a hairdresser and Gary worked out of town most weeks.
[/quote

I may have misunderstood, maybe they had closed that Thursday, but regardless, she hadn't closed prior to the events.  And from what I understand, she started watching kids again, but only has 1 to watch.  My friend has found another daycare.  It's a small small world, never know about anyone.   
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« Reply #453 on: November 19, 2009, 12:54:56 PM »

Thankyou so much everyone! I will make sure I do that. Hopefully, something may come out of it.

About the daycare getting closed that friday--Wasn't it Tom Smith that had said that the sign was down for a couple of months before that?

Yes he did, but it could have been because she was not/could not take any more children because of the ratio for caretakers to children. Just a guess on my part.


Okay-that makes sense now. My head hurts lol. Cindy Anthony has changed my WHOLE perspective on what lengths people will go to when they don't, can't, won't or flat out refuse to see the truth. Thanks again everybody for answering about starting a thread. I posted it under unsolved crimes. http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6543.0
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« Reply #454 on: November 19, 2009, 12:56:11 PM »

Ok - here are my thoughts on the grandparents whisking her off to a mental hospital - they are IMO only.  It would be hard to imagine your child/grandchild doing such a horrible thing. I do not think that Alyssa came home covered with blood - I suspect she came home and sneaked in. She dug the graves and was into the violent scene so she knew it would be messy and had the foresight to plan for the clean up. I am sure that the GP new that she was up to something - just not what exactly she was up to. I am not defending them - but what the he!! do you do with a kid that scares you to death and you know (even if you will not admit it) had something to do with a missing little girl? Will you be next on her list of kills?

I am sure these grandparents were at a complete loss - torn between the horror of what they suspected and the instinctual need to protect your children. What we do not know is if they called her psychiatrist/therapist and were told to take her to the hospital. How many of us, truth be told, would not do exactly what a doctor told us in the horror and fear these people must have felt?  They knew there was no way to undo whatever had been done - it was all about protecting them and theres.

I know from personal experience that when your child does a terrible thing, you can not think straight - my hubby would personally string up anyone that hurt his kids - but when it was his kid that did a terrible thing he lost perspective. He just operated from what outside people told him to do. it is a lot like post traumatic fog.

This in NO WAY excuses the scum for what she did to Elizabeth. It in NO WAY excuses what the grandparents did by "hiding" her and not helping in the investigation. It is just a look from the other side. Personally, I do not know what I would do if it was my kid. I would like to think I would do the right thing - but until I am there I do not know.

very good thoughts - you make a lot of sense.

With all of the problems they had with her, maybe by habit they just called her therapist.

I'd like to add to what I wrote above re: the investigation.

What I do not know and have no experience with is how FBI becomes lead on a case.  If they become lead - or become co-lead when the sheriff decides that a federal law may have been broken or a child is in extreme danger?  If so, and White did not make that call, I have to wonder why.

It could be that FBI agreed with White's feelings about the investigation and took the step back to let him determine before they became fully involved.

This investigation was closely guarded so a lot of how I feel is speculation.

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« Reply #455 on: November 19, 2009, 12:59:00 PM »

This is totally off topic but is it possible to start a thread on your own or do we need to contact an admin? My friend's brother was murdered and it's a cold case and thought maybe some of the monkeys here could check it out.


I'm wondering also if things were getting worse with Alyssa and that's why Karen closed the daycare. There must be a reason she did that.





The daycare was open until that Friday.  A friend had taken her child there up until that Friday. 

Hope I did this right, I'm a newbie!   

You friend must have been shocked when word started getting out.  If Karen took Alyssa to the mental hospital on Wednesday night, who was looking after the kids in the daycare on Thursday? Kat has been working towards being a hairdresser and Gary worked out of town most weeks.
[/quote

I may have misunderstood, maybe they had closed that Thursday, but regardless, she hadn't closed prior to the events.  And from what I understand, she started watching kids again, but only has 1 to watch.  My friend has found another daycare.  It's a small small world, never know about anyone.   



Bolded by me.  SHUT THE FRONT DOOR!!!!!!! Karen opened her daycare back up? I'm glad your friend found another daycare. Now I'm not saying Karen isn't qualified to look after kids however with all the anger out there over this I just don't see how anyone would feel that their child would be safe there.
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Cops say Stephen Spina, 36, was found stabbed to death in his apartment in Mamaroneck, New York on September 17, 2007. Killer is still at large. http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=57396 
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« Reply #456 on: November 19, 2009, 01:00:44 PM »

I barely get enough time to keep up with all these cases, much less post... but I am very relieved with the decision made yesterday. Lets pray that she gets the maximum sentence (of course, many of us wish for a far harsher punishment than life in prison without parole...but i wont go there).

With this new stuff coming out that gma took alyssa to a mental hospital in st. louis the night that Elizabeth went missing after leaving HER house really bothers me. The main reason being the fact that LE stated they did not suspect foul play in the disappearence and so on. Did they not go to the last place Elizabeth was seen and interview everyone living there? If so, wouldn't it have been very obvious that foul play should be suspected when Alyssa was no longer there and her gma had taken her to a mental hosp.? I mean that would seem fishy to me! and if they didn't go to the house and see who was there or interview anyone then i do blame them for making Elizabeth's family suffer for a longer period. That is the obvious thing to do when someone goes missing. You always check out the place they were last seen and the people who they were last seen with.

Lastly, I too have pondered the fact that maybe Elizabeth could have been saved. What if she was there suffering for a period of time? Maybe even while people were searching for her?? I've thought about this a lot and I sincerely believe that alyssa went there that day to do this terrible crime. So i do not think she held back in executing what she obviously had been planning on doing. I believe that she most definitely made sure that Elizabeth was dead. I'd bet she was dead when she pushed her in the grave. She didnt want to see what it felt like to bury someone alive...she wanted to see what it felt like to KILL someone.

Well i also hope that poor Elizabeth didn't suffer much and am glad to know she is in the hands of the Lord now. May you rest in peace Elizabeth. Prayers go out to everyone involved.
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« Reply #457 on: November 19, 2009, 01:07:56 PM »

Off to work on other endeavors. You all are the geatest. JUSTICE FOR ELIZABETH!!! ((((((HUGS))))))))
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« Reply #458 on: November 19, 2009, 01:11:13 PM »

   WELCOME klh21   
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« Reply #459 on: November 19, 2009, 01:15:04 PM »

Thankyou so much everyone! I will make sure I do that. Hopefully, something may come out of it.

About the daycare getting closed that friday--Wasn't it Tom Smith that had said that the sign was down for a couple of months before that?

Yes he did, but it could have been because she was not/could not take any more children because of the ratio for caretakers to children. Just a guess on my part.


Okay-that makes sense now. My head hurts lol. Cindy Anthony has changed my WHOLE perspective on what lengths people will go to when they don't, can't, won't or flat out refuse to see the truth. Thanks again everybody for answering about starting a thread. I posted it under unsolved crimes. http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6543.0

I will go read... an angelic monkey
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Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

 Words: C. Her­bert Wool­ston (1856-1927)  Music: George F. Root (1820-1895)
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