Elizabeth Olten #3 11/18/09 -

[Northern Rose]

I had a friend that told me she cut in HS.....I am sooo scared of anything sharp, blood, etc!! I could never BUT she said it was humiliating and she didn't want to do it but she couldn't stop. She said she would cover up the scars all the time bc it was EMBARRASSING and she didn't want to be caught...even though her family found out! She went to therapy and got help and overcame her depression, etc... now she dresses totally different (used to dress like Alyssa did..dark and weird)..but now she will wear pink shirts, etc even though her scars show because she knows it is part of her past now and she can't hide it and she wants to move on. Alyssa clearly wasn't "over" the phase and clearly needed more help.....but WHY would she post pictures SHOWING these scars unless it was a cry for attention OR she wanted to look "cool" in her group of friends.. it is so strange...

I asked that questrion earlier, why was she not wearing long sleeves to hide the cutting as most do?  That seems so strange from everything I have read on cutters.

[islandmonkey]

This girl is going to play the game and she will get off on an insanity charge. She won't kill herself. She has had plenty of time to do that over the years. Look at her wrists...I bet she cuts her legs too and probably her stomach. I bet she is loaded with scars. People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane. This girl will waltz her way right into a mental hospital and will be released within 2 years....mark my words. She will not be punished for the premeditated murder of  Elizabeth Olten. This girl will basically walk. How wrong is that....  There will be no justice for Elizabeth ....

She belongs in prison for the rest of her days. If I had my way....she would fry tomorrow.

I agree-I'd even volunteer to pull the lever

[YourMom]

BLOCKED WEBSITE

2 things people need to REALLY keep in mind right now.  First of all, digging two "graves" in Alyssa's mind could be a small hole, perhaps a foot deep and 3 ft wide.  That would not take much time to do.
Second, I have not read ONE THING that states from a verified officer of law that says that Elizabeth was found in EITHER one of these graves.  You have to keep an open mind about this or you will get off on the wrong path.

[YourMom]

think.
Posted by Anonymus Anonymus, Jefferson City - Saturday, November 21, 2009 at 7:48 p.m.
 
Alyssa is my friend. Even the girl who was interviewed in one of my close friends. Alyssa's friends all knew that she did have emotional problems, but that doesn't mean she wasn't a normal 15 year old girl. Why must so many people constantly throw out their narrow minded opinions and constantly poke at the situation. If you knew her like so many of us did you would be looking at this situation much differently. It has been very difficult for me, and I know that it's been hard for so many others. All of the pain brought on by this situation can't even be imagined by me alone. She was a great friend. She had problems, but who doesn't? Alyssa is a friend just like any other, the laughs, the smiles, the jokes, the hugs, and someone you could trust. When you truly don't understand the situation that is much bigger than me and you please why not just accept what has happened and realize what has happened can't be changed by constantly analyzing and contimplating the situation and thinking of all the pain and suffering caused. I don't know how to explain the situation because even I myself am trying to move on, but I will never forget what has happened here and I doubt anyone else will. But please just stop and realize that Alyssa is a person to, my friend.
 
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=380391#Comments

Yeah..this was the same song and dance that Eric Harris and Dylan Klebod's friends did also.  BLAH BLAH BLAH.  These stupid little girls need to realize if they are stating how wonderful Alyssa was, then they are also stating it was just Jim Dandy Fine for her to MURDER ELIZABETH.    

These stupid little girls are so wrapped up in their anti-social wanna be selves they can not see the differnce between right and wrong.  (Stupid little girls!)


Good morning Monkeys!

IMO I think these "stupid little girls" are just as mixed up and confused as most of us are. I think that Alyssa pulled the wool over their eyes as well. Believe it or not they are children. As they said they thought she was just mouthing off when she said she wanted to know what it would feel like to kill someone. Until we read this story if someone just made a comment about like "hmm I would like to know what that feels like" we may have thought they were a dumba%% but would we really have thought that they were going to go do it??? I use to have a very dear friend when I was in high school that was as normal as you and I to all of our faces. When she didn't show up for school for several weeks we started asking some of the teachers about her, mums the word. Then a couple of my girlfriends and I finally drove to the parents house. (No one would answer the phone b4 that) We found out that Charlotte had kept a pregnancy hidden from all of us, even her parents, she had a severe drug addiction to glue, she gave birth to her daughter when her parents were away and walked around the house with the baby hanging from the umbilical cord dragging the floor until her parents came home and found her. Charlotte was put into a mental hospital. I know it wasn't murder but what I am saying is this. I SAW CHARLOTTE EVERY SCHOOL DAY, SHE WAS ONE OF MY 3 MUSKETEERS, WE THOUGHT THAT NOTHING WAS HID FROM EACH OTHER. WE HAD NO IDEA. I honestly believe that if she was psychotic enough to kill a little 9 year old then she could definitely hide these things from her best friends.

I completely agree.  Well said.

[Roxie]

Does anyone have the you tubes copied?

[YourMom]

http://www.youtube.com/user/apples199324

[Roxie]

I am sorry, I meant Alyssas' you tubes

[KarenK]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz1tw6pGZ0A
Here's one

[KarenK]

http://www.youtube.com/user/Archivist2001
this person snagged them

[TiskTisk]

Just a question Is Jan King still the Public defender in this case or what I would like o call the "public pretender" ... I just wanted to know for sure who is the defense attorney at the moment ?

[TiskTisk]

This girl is going to play the game and she will get off on an insanity charge. She won't kill herself. She has had plenty of time to do that over the years. Look at her wrists...I bet she cuts her legs too and probably her stomach. I bet she is loaded with scars. People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane. This girl will waltz her way right into a mental hospital and will be released within 2 years....mark my words. She will not be punished for the premeditated murder of  Elizabeth Olten. This girl will basically walk. How wrong is that....  There will be no justice for Elizabeth ....

She belongs in prison for the rest of her days. If I had my way....she would fry tomorrow.

Quote from you "People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane."You are not being very empathetic to the situation as a whole.I say that as a former cutter (and not disturbed) And I say that as a surviving victim of a murder.I know Murder My father was murdered.you wanna check here it is the link.http://al.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.%5CAL%5CPLS%5C1991%5C19910517_0013.AL.htm/qx I see both sides which I see you can not. I know how murder effects a family (I LIVED IT) And I know what it is like to be crying and feel alone because the adults in your life are to busy to realize you can't deal with your own problems!So you cut to make your self feel real. Look what she did is Wrong!!! Once you cross that bridge you can not go back.Stop JUDGING and Start LEARNING. She needs to be put in a hospital for the rest of her life not a prison. 
And there I said it. I am sorry to all of the fellow monkeys if me saying that upsets you. You have all been very intelligent and open minded to me and what I have ever had to say ... (Thank You ) She may not be insane but maybe a little sociopathic and I do not say that with ease. The person that murdered my father was a sociopath.I myself can not understand it And I shouldn't (hints I am not one ) ;p Hell I cry at commercials!!!! Here is the definition to those who are not aware;

Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others.
sociopath
I feel pain on both sides of this case because I have been on both sides. There can still be Justice for Beautiful Elizabeth (which there should be) But lets not forget the bigger picture.If the adults in the life of Alyssa had been a lil more "hands on" I know they paid for a Doctor to talk to her but what about her parents!!! She was given away to her grandparents because her birth parents were to wrapped up in their own selfishness. If They had just gotten their shit straight long enough to give her what she needed. THIS MAY NOT HAVE HAPPENED!!! Some murders are born that way ,yet some are created from what they have been given.
I am sorry I got a bit fired up by that comment.....This case effects me ...In more ways than one. A child had been taken by another child that was forgotten long ago.Alyssa lived in a nice big house that I am sure kept her grandparents working a lot.Children don't need big houses or swimming pools , or pool tables etc.They need family and communication and morals that you cant expect you Sunday school teacher to teach them or a preacher to preach to them. You have to show them by spending time and molding that child.My grandmother (god rest her soul) stood up in the court room in the face of her own son's killers and said "I don't want another mother to lose her child like I did " She pushed for just life and not death.It is a sad sad day that is this day. If you can not have empathy for your fellow man what does that make you... I will tell you .... it makes you no better

[KarenK]

  Tisk Tisk I would say that most people here are empathetic. There are always a few that don't get it, but I admire the posters here for the most part.  I do blame her grandparents. I wrote on the NG blog.  Those grandparents did not give her the close attention or monitoring that she needed. Easily they could have monitored her online activity.  We are not her family and look was has been found. Her friends failed her as well. What would be wrong with a friend confiding confidentially if need be in her grandparents about Alyssa's thoughts about killing and suicide and the cutting ( all signs she was crying out for attention and acceptance).  The way her brothers also were subjected to her influence is wrong. Where were the GP when she was electrocuting herself and her brothers, and pretend to be stabbing them?  I think I noted in one photo that the boy (could have been her brothers) who was being "stabbed" had painted black fingernails.  Now if that was her brother - what were the GP's thinking?

Tisk Tisk, again I appreciate your insightful and personal postings.

[Northern Rose]

Just a question Is Jan King still the Public defender in this case or what I would like o call the "public pretender" ... I just wanted to know for sure who is the defense attorney at the moment ?

Based on the file update I posted preciously, Jan King is still the public defender.

[Northern Rose]

This girl is going to play the game and she will get off on an insanity charge. She won't kill herself. She has had plenty of time to do that over the years. Look at her wrists...I bet she cuts her legs too and probably her stomach. I bet she is loaded with scars. People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane. This girl will waltz her way right into a mental hospital and will be released within 2 years....mark my words. She will not be punished for the premeditated murder of  Elizabeth Olten. This girl will basically walk. How wrong is that....  There will be no justice for Elizabeth ....

She belongs in prison for the rest of her days. If I had my way....she would fry tomorrow.

Quote from you "People who practice 'cutting' are disturbed, but not insane."You are not being very empathetic to the situation as a whole.I say that as a former cutter (and not disturbed) And I say that as a surviving victim of a murder.I know Murder My father was murdered.you wanna check here it is the link.http://al.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.%5CAL%5CPLS%5C1991%5C19910517_0013.AL.htm/qx I see both sides which I see you can not. I know how murder effects a family (I LIVED IT) And I know what it is like to be crying and feel alone because the adults in your life are to busy to realize you can't deal with your own problems!So you cut to make your self feel real. Look what she did is Wrong!!! Once you cross that bridge you can not go back.Stop JUDGING and Start LEARNING. She needs to be put in a hospital for the rest of her life not a prison. 
And there I said it. I am sorry to all of the fellow monkeys if me saying that upsets you. You have all been very intelligent and open minded to me and what I have ever had to say ... (Thank You ) She may not be insane but maybe a little sociopathic and I do not say that with ease. The person that murdered my father was a sociopath.I myself can not understand it And I shouldn't (hints I am not one ) ;p Hell I cry at commercials!!!! Here is the definition to those who are not aware;

Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others.
sociopath
I feel pain on both sides of this case because I have been on both sides. There can still be Justice for Beautiful Elizabeth (which there should be) But lets not forget the bigger picture.If the adults in the life of Alyssa had been a lil more "hands on" I know they paid for a Doctor to talk to her but what about her parents!!! She was given away to her grandparents because her birth parents were to wrapped up in their own selfishness. If They had just gotten their shit straight long enough to give her what she needed. THIS MAY NOT HAVE HAPPENED!!! Some murders are born that way ,yet some are created from what they have been given.
I am sorry I got a bit fired up by that comment.....This case effects me ...In more ways than one. A child had been taken by another child that was forgotten long ago.Alyssa lived in a nice big house that I am sure kept her grandparents working a lot.Children don't need big houses or swimming pools , or pool tables etc.They need family and communication and morals that you cant expect you Sunday school teacher to teach them or a preacher to preach to them. You have to show them by spending time and molding that child.My grandmother (god rest her soul) stood up in the court room in the face of her own son's killers and said "I don't want another mother to lose her child like I did " She pushed for just life and not death.It is a sad sad day that is this day. If you can not have empathy for your fellow man what does that make you... I will tell you .... it makes you no better

Many people grow up in very bad situations and with little to no adult interaction in their lives for numerous reasons.  They do not kill.  There are articles that this girl was sneaky, deceptive and if she did have daily counselling  clearly knew how to tell people what they wanted to hear and manipulate.  Other articles indicated that Karen & Gary were members of a church and had her involved in the church as well.  She would have learned from church if from no other place empathy, forgiveness, morality and spirituality.  Yet she used the church as an excuse in at least one instance to lie and do what she wanted.  Some people are born evil and stay on that path regardless of outside influences.  Many more people grow up in evil situations and come through it without harming others let alone killing.  She was given more than one opportunity from the custody going to Grandma so she would not be in the care of a drug and alcohol troubled mother and father incarerated for violence,  to daily counseling, hospitalization and support from services available in the community and her church for years prior to this.  IMO she worked very hard at staying on the path she chose and planned exactly what has gotten her behind bars today.  Had her efforts been given to the same extent to embrace the numerous help offered perhaps Elizabeth would still be here.  Elizabeth's family has endured more than one tragedy and heartache. IMO it is up to the courts to ensure justice is served for Elizabeth and her family so they can in some way heal.  Elizabeth should not be forgotten as the only victim in this. 

[Wyks]

hey Wyks - this site seems to have quite a few:



http://www.mysmiley.net/

Thanks Jill!  That's a great site!   

[Wyks]

QUIET MONKEY[/b] around and snag them from her. She has a huge collection. I think there are some sites, but I mostly get them from her.
More you might like. 

Pedaling fast to catch up in here.  Thanks so much Fanny!  Gonna have to watch the two of you a bit more closely.   Got a fan club I can join?   

[Wyks]

O/T

Sorry, haven't been on line much. I follow QUIET MONKEY around and snag them from her. She has a huge collection. I think there are some sites, but I mostly get them from her.
More you might like. 

Pedaling fast to catch up in here.  Thanks so much Fanny!  Gonna have to watch the two of you a bit more closely.   Got a fan club I can join?   

Wow!     I messed that post up badly... sorry!

[Wyks]

Nobody Knows What to Do with a Female Teen Killer, Other Than Watch Her Creepy Videos

As Alyssa Bustamante's cache of "Jackass stunt" videos resurface on YouTube, Missouri's penal system finds itself at its wits' end trying to accommodate a rare beast: the violent female juvenile offender.

Court proceedings for Bustamante—a 15-year-old who confessed to what authorities characterize as the premeditated slaughter of a 9-year-old neighbor, then led them to the hidden corpse—have so far focused on how she will be tried and where she will live. The St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports that the options are limited:

Missouri's nationally respected juvenile justice system has no secure place to put a 15-year-old girl accused of a violent murder.

It's a system that was built for boys.

"This is real different for all of us," said Bill Heberle, deputy director of the Division of Youth Services. At Bustamante's certification hearing, Heberle testified that the state doesn't have a secure facility—meaning one with fences and locked gates—for girls.

... "We simply don't receive that many young girls that are committed to us for a heinous crime," Heberle said. "Our girls tend to be more violent toward themselves."

Bustamante certainly has exhibited violence toward herself, including a suicide attempt two years ago. While the Missouri juvenile justice system tries to puzzle out what to do with an alleged female thrill killer, the internet is busy rubbernecking at Alyssa's exuberant "Jackass stunt" videos, wherein she imitates the exuberantly male MTV series of yore. Bustamante's YouTube account has been the source of much commotion—it was there that she listed "killing people" as a "hobby," and the Associated Press described a video clip in which where Bustamante shocks herself on an electric fence, then coaxes her brothers into doing the same. At the time, the clip was thought to be lost to the black hole of disabled YouTube accounts. But, like everything unfortunate on the internet, it has miraculously found its way back to the limelight:

An internet archivist reposted several of Bustamante's videos—which range from Good Charlotte tributes to swimming pool splash-a-thons with her brothers—and Gawker commenter TheLemon posted it here, which means we just crowdsourced a murder investigation?

http://gawker.com/5410574/nobody-knows-what-to-do-with-a-confessed-female-teen-killer-other-than-watch-her-creepy-videos

Thanks Northern! 

Seems to me, (the part I bolded), they may as well go ahead and build a girls wing to their juvenile justice system.  Never heard of such a thing as not having an area to house girls, for pete's sakes.  Just scooch the boys over, build a door/wall that separates the boys area from the girls, and there ya go.  How hard is that?   

[nana0567]

What I would like to know is what is on the end of that knife? It appears to be blood...probably fake but it is still disturbing.  Does anyone know where that pic might have been taken?

[Wyks]

Am thinking that what some folks aren't understanding is that there are different types of cutters.  Let me tell you about just two of these different types:

-- Some who cut themselves do so from a deep inner need to feel... something.. anything.  They have been so competely shut down from their emotions for so long that they are numb.  Cutting themselves seems an attempt for them to make themselves feel again.  And at the same time, that is one way they've found to release their built-up emotions.  They typically are severely depressed, with anger/rage directly inward, not outward to others.  This type of cutting tends to be shame-based, something typically hidden from others, never mentioned at all, to anyone, til found out in some way.  This type of cutting is usually done in places that cannot be seen by others, or they wear long sleeves.  It's all very complicated, and this type needs some mental health treatment.  They aren't disturbed, they aren't insane.  They know there is a problem, they often are too ashamed to go for help.  They do have emotional issues to deal with.   

-- Some who cut themselves do so for attention from others.  I won't even begin to get into what (and the extent of) issues this type of person has.   Some will rush to the nearest person to show them what they just did, some simply don't hide the cuts/bandages but wait for someone else to notice.  Typically the cutting was done to get the reaction of shock/sympathy/etc from others.  Somehow that fills a need in them.   They aren't insane either, but very definitely have emotional issues to deal with.  They will first need to see that there are problems.  Even with the problems, this person typically is a danger only to themselves, not others.  I say typically......... because if they aren't getting the attention they seem to crave by injuring themselves, they may begin to lash out to other people/animals in different ways. 

-- And then there is a combination of the above two types.  This would be those who start out the first type, but turns into the second type when they realize the attention from others is filling a need they didn't realize they had. 

No matter which type of cutter, the ways of cutting and depths differ greatly.  From superficial cuts to deep wounds that need stitches.   Folks who have many superficial cuts across the wrist are not trying to kill themselves.  That isn't the way it's done, and I don't need to finish that thought.  They may, however, accidentally hit a vein too deeply and lose a lot of blood.  If pointed out to the second type of cutter, they may cut deeper or differently the next time, just to gain more attention or a more startled reaction by others. 

All cutting attempts ought to, IMO, be taken seriously.  As I've said, the second type may escalate, especially without the needed attention or intervention.  None are simple stages that someone will get over.  These people can and do get/grow beyond the reasons they cut, most often they will need help to do so. 

Alyssa seems to me to be more the second type, altho I certainly am not trying to diagnose her or anything.  It's just my opinion from what we've seen of her online and read.  She seems to get a kick out of seeing pain that she has caused, not only in herself, but in others (as in her brothers).   She seems to get a bigger kick out of the reactions of others to what she's done.  There is always the possibility that she started out as the first type, and gravitated to the second type. 

All my opinion only.