Caylee Marie Anthony #152 11/20/09 - 12/09/09

[SunnyinTX]

I have a question... When the defense filed the motion wanting the prosecution to tell what evidence they have proving KC did this, does this mean we may find out about other evidence we haven't seen yet? Do you think the state will reveal if they've got something really really good? Or will it be just what we've seen so far? Thank you...

Gizzie...I have no answer to your question...wish I did....JMO, I doubt the State will have to play all their cards....but perhaps something else...

Thank you Sunny, I wonder then if Strickland sides with the defense, what will the State do if there is something else? I mean, they wouldn't stop the hearing and say, ok, you called our bluff, here's what else we got, would they? I feel silly asking this, but what happens if they don't show all their cards, and Strickland rules against them (state) ? Do they then lose their bid for the DP? I hope this makes sense. 

Gizzie, I can only believe the State knows what it takes and they will get the job done.  I also believe that Judge Strickland is not going to be too pleased with what has come our about how Lyons feels about Judges and will hopefully pull in the ropes he has given the defense in the past. I can't imagine any judge being please to have Lyons in his court trying to change the laws of the State judicial system.

[SunnyinTX]

Good Night Monks...it's been an interesting conversation..sleep well and TTYL

[crazybabyborg]

Interesting to me............... they will be in court on the anniversary of when Caylee's remains were found. I hope it's a good omen for the State.

[tupelohoney]

OK...going out on a limb...but my friend says she thinks they will attribute this to  post traumatic syndrome and have an expert or ten to validate it.

How far back in Casey's life will they need to go?  It seems to me that her lifestyle started when she was a Senior in H.S.....long before Caylee and well after the moment Caylee was born. JMO

Good questions... I'd think they would only be stressing her actions during those 31 days.  JMO

Sunny, you couldn't detect my sarcasm in my typed words?  I understand it would be from the time Caylee went missing, but if this were to be brought up I would hope the State would have witness after witness to claim that Casey acted in this manner for years, it was her norm.

[tupelohoney]

http://www.wftv.com/video/21790288/index.html

BILL SHEAFFER: Analysis Of Motions To Be Heard At Casey Hearing
WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer talks about the motions that will be heard at Casey Anthony's December 11 hearing....

[Searching]

I wanted to add to the J Jordan talk.. He was on my FB and now is gone, I searched his name and nothing, so it appears as though he has closed out his FB as well.

[mizjay]

Interesting to me............... they will be in court on the anniversary of when Caylee's remains were found. I hope it's a good omen for the State.

  Yes, all the good mojo in the universe needs to shine down on the the State,  for Caylee. It never ceases to amaze me that she seems all but forgotten except on the internet sites.

PS~ thanks a million for putting me in the Christmas spirit!   

[ISpy]

Hornsby posted this and for me it answers a couple questions


Everyone needs to be 100% clear on something. Until the jury is sworn in, it does not matter what the defense claims to the media or in any pretrial hearing - they are not bound to those statements, nor can those statements be used against them in trial.

The only thing the defense attorneys can be held to, is the theory of defense they provide during opening statements.

And that is why I think the nanny bs, will be abandoned, or at least it would make sense to do so.

Hi NRCG!!  He also made a statement...not verbatim...that he thinks the defense will come out in their opening statement that yes, Casey lied...and he thinks that might make the State case more difficult.

While talking with a friend last night she asked....'so what if the defense comes out with yes, she lied. Caylee died via an accident, Casey tried to contact her parents (remember the  many calls), she couldn't get her parents...panicked and decided to hide Caylee's body until she could come up with a plan'........she thinks that would explain Casey carrying Caylee's dead body around in the car.. (my friend has stood firm in her belief that it was indeed an accident...consequently we seldom talk about Caylee) How would this affect the trial...if at all?  I haven't a clue....my guess would be it wouldn't affect it...that the State would continue with the murder trial. But it did make me think....what if this did happen??

Good evening, everyone!  Truthfully, I've floated the accidental death theory also.  The defense can stand up first thing and admit Casey lied about her employment, Caylee being missing, Sawgrass, J. Blanchard Park, Zenaida Gonzales, and the Anthony family being threatened (Casey's excuse for not reporting Caylee missing).  They can float the accident theory, but I don't think jurors will buy it. ME Jan Garavaglia stated the duct tape was placed prior to decomposition (http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19801498/detail.html  Pg.3) and judging by the way it is worded in her report, that duct tape was placed tight enough to not only hold the mandible closed through rigor mortis and decompositional fluid chemical reactions in the heat and environmental conditions of the trunk, but also defying the skeletonization process and the loss of fatty tissue beneath the tape.  In other words, there was no "give" to the tape, if I'm reading it correctly.  When the jury is shown pics of the skull with duct tape (as they will be if/when this goes to trial), they're going to see how tight it had to have been.  Casey certainly didn't and hasn't been the poster girl for PTSD between the thirty day hiatus partying, the preponderance of party pics (her normal style), watching horror flicks with her boyfriend within hours of Caylee's death, the shopping sprees at Target, and playing house with Tony.  Most PTSD victims don't get Bella Vita tatoos commemorating the events that traumatized them. Her emotionally "off" behavior from the first recorded call home from jail, to all of her family visit videos, as well as flirting on tape with Baez in court (the court video where Casey "flicks" her pen onto Baez' papers-March 12, 2009 I think)...none of that shows PTSD.  In addition, jail personnel would be able to testify as to Casey's general demeanor in regards to PTSD (as well as her initial psych evaluations).  Then there's the pesky issue of selling videos and pics of Caylee to various media outlets..not quite PTSD behavior either.  In short, Casey's behavior never altered course due to a traumatic event.   IMO, jurors will have a hard time seeing past that skull, the heart sticker outline, the computer searches, the party pics, the me-centered phone call and jail visit videos, and all of the forensic evidence.

Should the defense choose to stick with the Zanny-the-Nanny story, they're going to have to overcome the fact that neither LE  nor the Anthonys' own detectives have ever found one shred of evidence affirming her existence, independent of Anthony family members' statements.  Nor, has Le or The Anthonys' detectives found any proof that Casey or any of her family members were ever threatened in any form in relation to "Caylee's kidnapping" (claim by Casey for not reporting Caylee missing)...no emails/text messages/phone calls/ransom demands whatsoever.

All MOO opinion, of course.   

[ISpy]

The State will argue that just by the defense stipulating Casey lied, is no reason to prohibit them from submitting evidence and testimony establishing those lies. They'll argue that it's a nexus for getting to the reason for those lies, and that the timing of the lies is germane to their ability to establish guilt, IMO.

They'd be right, too! Look at when ZG went to Sawgrass. It was AFTER Caylee went missing, etc.

I wish I could get my friend to post here....honestly sometimes she makes so much sense in her theory....it's scary.....and she honestly believes that all of this will be explained in court...by a very contrite, remorseful, sobbing Casey.....how she was so fearful of her mother finding out that she let Caylee died in the pool.....she was too scared to call 911....she wanted her mother, the nurse....yadda, yadda, yadda.....see why we agreed to not talk about Caylee/Casey...

That's the best possible scenario for the defense, and the worst case scenario for the State, IMO. I'm not sure the State can disprove that scenario. I do not believe that Casey would get the death penalty if that's the course they choose. The defense will still have to battle chloroform in the trunk, and computer searches for chloroform and methods of murder, but Cindy's ready to step up and say she did those searches (give me a break!). I think the defense knows it and is desperately trying, with these motions, to get the death penalty off the table beforehand so they can gain more leverage to effect length of sentence instead of just saving her neck. There are a few tangible things that support the accidental pool death, like the ladder being moved, and the flurry of cell phone calls.

See, here's the thing, the chloroform in the trunk cannot be explained away in those concentrations and neither can Casey's computer searches for and foreknowledge of Zenaida Gonzales being at Sawgrass.  So, in order for the accidental death defense to succeed, someone in the Anthony family in going to have to admit to the accidental death, admit to dumping the body, admit to cleaning the trunk, explain the decomp hits in the backyard, explain those ZG computer searches and the Sawgrass Application Card, admit to staging a kidnapping, and confess to implicating Zenaida Gonzales.  Casey Anthony has a well-documented history of avoiding responsibility.  Do we really think she's going to take some now?

[ISpy]

One final thought before I head out.  Thinking back to the whole episode where Annie Downing/speculated driver Casey Anthony got pulled over and Annie was cited for not wearing a seat belt, but the driver was cited for not having a valid ID and given a grace period to produce it.  There was some discussion about whether Casey was the driver without ID and later produced a fake one.  Payments were being made to the court on the driving offense until Casey went to jail the first time.  Is there any possibility that any of Casey's LE love interests would have fixed that ticket in some way (given her a pass to provide a fake ID or requested a buddy officer to hold off charging her until she could produce an ID, knowing it'd be fake)?  Did we ever find out who the charging officer was on that?  Not to accuse or start rumors, but it's never set well with me that Casey was calling Jesse, went by to see Jesse, offered herself for a date the last weekend in June-all around the same time Jesse quit the force.  Maybe it's just me, since I don't know Jesse from Adam, but he seemed pretty dedicated to being an officer.  Maybe the timing was just one of those things, IDK.

Well, time to run.  Take good care everyone!

[trimmonthelake]

Good Morning Monkeys.   

http://blog.richardhornsby.com/2009/12/02/how-the-grinch-stole-casey-anthonys-christmas/
How the Grinch Stole Casey Anthony’s Christmas
December 2nd, 2009  Richard Hornsby   
It was recently announced that Judge Strickland will address four of the Casey Anthony Defense Team’s motions at a hearing on December 11, 2009. They are:

   1. Motion to Preclude the Death Penalty Procedures
   2. Motion for a Protective Order Directing Orange County Jail to Destroy Videos of Family Visits
   3. Motion for a Protective Order Prohibiting Orange County Jail from Videotaping Attorney Visits
   4. Motion to Dismiss Counts 1,2, 4, 5, 7, 8 10, 11, 13 for Violation of Double Jeopardy Clause

The scheduling of the hearing on these motions provides not only a timely interlude in the progression of her Murder case, but also a timely and brief interlude from my two part series on her Check Fraud case (Casey Anthony: Insufficient Funds).

Unfortunately though, I think that this interlude will not provide Ms. Anthony with any early Christmas cheer, as it appears that Santa will not be giving her anything on her Christmas wish list – she must have been a naughty girl this year, tsk tsk…

Oh Casey, just what have your attorneys done?
Continued at link.  http://blog.richardhornsby.com/2009/12/02/how-the-grinch-stole-casey-anthonys-christmas/

[Nut44x4]

[trimmonthelake]

 

[trimmonthelake]

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2009/12/2/caseys_lawyers_want_death_penalty_out.html
 Casey’s Lawyers Want Death Penalty Out
Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:54:31
ORLANDO -- The case against Casey Anthony is scheduled to be back in court next week after her lawyers filed several new motions.

The latest requests to Judge Stan Strickland include a motion to preclude death penalty procedures against Anthony, who was charged with the murder of her 2-year-old daughter, Caylee.

The defense team said the prosecution does not have a legitimate interest in seeking the death penalty against Anthony.

Another motion wants to prevent all video and audio tape records of lawyer visits to the orange county jail.

The defense also wants the judge to order the jail to destroy any and all video of Casey’s family visiting her in jail.

The hearing is set for 9:30 a.m. Friday, Dec. 11, at the Orange County Courthouse.

[SunnyinTX]

Interesting to me............... they will be in court on the anniversary of when Caylee's remains were found. I hope it's a good omen for the State.

God Morning Monks!!  CBB I hope it's a good omen too. I wonder why Lee never comes to court

[SunnyinTX]

OK...going out on a limb...but my friend says she thinks they will attribute this to  post traumatic syndrome and have an expert or ten to validate it.

How far back in Casey's life will they need to go?  It seems to me that her lifestyle started when she was a Senior in H.S.....long before Caylee and well after the moment Caylee was born. JMO

Good questions... I'd think they would only be stressing her actions during those 31 days.  JMO

Sunny, you couldn't detect my sarcasm in my typed words?  I understand it would be from the time Caylee went missing, but if this were to be brought up I would hope the State would have witness after witness to claim that Casey acted in this manner for years, it was her norm.

Morning tupelo....LOL..I wasn't sure so I took the high road!!

[no rose colored glasses]

Interesting to me............... they will be in court on the anniversary of when Caylee's remains were found. I hope it's a good omen for the State.

God Morning Monks!!  CBB I hope it's a good omen too. I wonder why Lee never comes to court

Good morning everyone, I think Lee wants to distance himself from this as much as possible, or he is a coward and won't confront the issues.

[SunnyinTX]

http://www.wftv.com/video/21790288/index.html

BILL SHEAFFER: Analysis Of Motions To Be Heard At Casey Hearing
WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer talks about the motions that will be heard at Casey Anthony's December 11 hearing....

Thanks tupelo...I am glad to see BS discussing the case ...but I hope he is wrong about all of the videotaping!!

[SunnyinTX]

I wanted to add to the J Jordan talk.. He was on my FB and now is gone, I searched his name and nothing, so it appears as though he has closed out his FB as well.

Hi Searching...thanks for the info

[SunnyinTX]

Good evening, everyone!  Truthfully, I've floated the accidental death theory also.  The defense can stand up first thing and admit Casey lied about her employment, Caylee being missing, Sawgrass, J. Blanchard Park, Zenaida Gonzales, and the Anthony family being threatened (Casey's excuse for not reporting Caylee missing).  They can float the accident theory, but I don't think jurors will buy it. ME Jan Garavaglia stated the duct tape was placed prior to decomposition (http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19801498/detail.html  Pg.3) and judging by the way it is worded in her report, that duct tape was placed tight enough to not only hold the mandible closed through rigor mortis and decompositional fluid chemical reactions in the heat and environmental conditions of the trunk, but also defying the skeletonization process and the loss of fatty tissue beneath the tape.  In other words, there was no "give" to the tape, if I'm reading it correctly.  When the jury is shown pics of the skull with duct tape (as they will be if/when this goes to trial), they're going to see how tight it had to have been.  Casey certainly didn't and hasn't been the poster girl for PTSD between the thirty day hiatus partying, the preponderance of party pics (her normal style), watching horror flicks with her boyfriend within hours of Caylee's death, the shopping sprees at Target, and playing house with Tony.  Most PTSD victims don't get Bella Vita tatoos commemorating the events that traumatized them. Her emotionally "off" behavior from the first recorded call home from jail, to all of her family visit videos, as well as flirting on tape with Baez in court (the court video where Casey "flicks" her pen onto Baez' papers-March 12, 2009 I think)...none of that shows PTSD.  In addition, jail personnel would be able to testify as to Casey's general demeanor in regards to PTSD (as well as her initial psych evaluations).  Then there's the pesky issue of selling videos and pics of Caylee to various media outlets..not quite PTSD behavior either.  In short, Casey's behavior never altered course due to a traumatic event.   IMO, jurors will have a hard time seeing past that skull, the heart sticker outline, the computer searches, the party pics, the me-centered phone call and jail visit videos, and all of the forensic evidence.

Should the defense choose to stick with the Zanny-the-Nanny story, they're going to have to overcome the fact that neither LE  nor the Anthonys' own detectives have ever found one shred of evidence affirming her existence, independent of Anthony family members' statements.  Nor, has Le or The Anthonys' detectives found any proof that Casey or any of her family members were ever threatened in any form in relation to "Caylee's kidnapping" (claim by Casey for not reporting Caylee missing)...no emails/text messages/phone calls/ransom demands whatsoever.

All MOO opinion, of course.   

Hi ISpy...thanks for your take on this....always an interesting read!