Natalee Case Discussion #827 12/9/09 - 1/28/10

[WhiskeyGirl]

So rubber boats wouldn't show up on radar very much if it was in fact even turned on.  And a small one would not make much noise which would also be a factor that late at night.  Wouldn't want a boat with big motor at that hour.  Van Loon's boat would fit but not much else about him would.  Don't think he has known connection to Joran and was older than the pimp creeps.

I think it depends on the radar.  If you're aiming for the sky, that's what you see.

I saw a radar in action demonstration earlier this year.  The birds on the water, the fishermen on the shore, and all the buildings along with other water traffic all showed up. 

Learning to understand the blips is a skill that needs to be developed over time.

The demonstrator had many years of experience watching birds, small boats, and people on radar.

Why wouldn't Aruba see rubber boats on radar?  What exactly is that radar for?

I also remember someone, Dompig maybe, saying that they had such good radar, they saw all the people on the beaches at night.

What kind of radar do they have and what are it's capabilities?

First of all, regardless of the "quality" of Aruba's radar -- the fact is, it was "turned off" that night. Second of all, the radar question to me is moot, as I don't think the disposal happened that night anyways. Thirdly, no matter WHEN the body was disposed of -- a "daurry" will have a much smaller footprint than a larger motorboat or ship.

How small is to small?  How many boats were from the music festival?  I recall that some suggested here was a lot of boat traffic.

Would noise be a problem?  What of all the commerical fishermen?  Cruise ships in the early morning hours?  Drug traffic?

How would any Aruban 'clear' all the water traffic after the fact?  Days, weeks, or months later?

The 'fishermen' didn't see anyone that matched JVDS description.  JVDS...saw lots of people on the beach, but none have come forward to support his stories.  And, to this day, no one really knows which Kalpoe came with the taxi to pick him up and drive him home.

I wonder how often the radar goes off in Aruba.

[Bearlyhere]

TopNewsReports.com
Articles

 
 

 
 
 Boats On Parade In Aruba


By Meri Ulrich
Mar. 31, 2006

During his little show on "48 Hours", Gerald Dompig showed the audience some computer screens that are housed at the police department where he conducts his business. We saw boats being tracked and he claimed that those were the boats that were tracked on the night that Natalee Holloway disappeared. He showed that every single boat that came and went out of Aruba on that fateful night was tracked on that screen.
 
He lied.
 
On May 30th, 2005, Aruba had NO working tracking system in place. It didn't exist.
 
Raytheon Canada to Install Coastal Surveillance Radars in Dutch Caribbean
Posted 30-Nov-2005 03:10
Related stories: Americas - Other, Coastal & Littoral, Contracts - Awards, Europe - Other, Radars, Raytheon
Also on this day: 30-Nov-2005 »
 
Raytheon Canada won a contract valued at approximately $12 million (EUR 10 million) from the Royal Netherlands Navy and the Coast Guard of the Netherlands Antilles & Aruba (CGNA&A) to build an integrated coastal surveillance radar network on the islands of Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao, including long-term maintenance and training.

Whole article here:http://www.topnewsreports.com/reports/article008.html
 

Yup, that is what I remember, no working radar that night.

 

[WhiskeyGirl]

TopNewsReports.com
Articles

 
 

 
 
 Boats On Parade In Aruba


By Meri Ulrich
Mar. 31, 2006

During his little show on "48 Hours", Gerald Dompig showed the audience some computer screens that are housed at the police department where he conducts his business. We saw boats being tracked and he claimed that those were the boats that were tracked on the night that Natalee Holloway disappeared. He showed that every single boat that came and went out of Aruba on that fateful night was tracked on that screen.
 
He lied.
 
On May 30th, 2005, Aruba had NO working tracking system in place. It didn't exist.
 
Raytheon Canada to Install Coastal Surveillance Radars in Dutch Caribbean
Posted 30-Nov-2005 03:10
Related stories: Americas - Other, Coastal & Littoral, Contracts - Awards, Europe - Other, Radars, Raytheon
Also on this day: 30-Nov-2005 »
 
Raytheon Canada won a contract valued at approximately $12 million (EUR 10 million) from the Royal Netherlands Navy and the Coast Guard of the Netherlands Antilles & Aruba (CGNA&A) to build an integrated coastal surveillance radar network on the islands of Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao, including long-term maintenance and training.

Whole article here:http://www.topnewsreports.com/reports/article008.html
 

I believe the Dutch and Americans have a presence on the island to help stop drug trafficing.  I wonder if they had working radar during that time?

It's hard to believe that they have no radar when they had cruise, drug, business, and pleasure traffic.  It's an island.  Good and services move by water.

What other radar was available on the island?

[WhiskeyGirl]

Aruba didn't have their new super duper radar, the did have something and they tested it in 2004 -

Gerold Dompig during his CBS 48 Hours interview stated that experiments were done with dummies being thrown over board in the water; every time they drifted back to shore. The only way this would not occur was if a boat sailed more than two miles off shore. Dompig then stated, “a trip that would have turned up on police radar and been captured on tape. Police have accounted for every boat in the water the night Natalee vanished“.

Cruz says he and his team have tossed a dummy overboard many times, but that in every case, it drifted back to shore. The only way that wouldn’t happen is if a boat sailed more than two miles offshore — a trip that would have turned up on police radar and been captured on tape.

Police have accounted for every boat in the water the night Natalee vanished.

That is quite a different story compared to the Amigoe article back in November 2005 entitled, “Radar-system not watertight”.

ORANJESTAD — The radar-system that monitors the coastline is not watertight. People still manage to enter Aruba illegally from sea. This was stated by the general commander of Warda nos Costa, Gerold Dompig. His statement challenges the words of Justice-minister Rudy Croes (MEP) who closed a lease contract for the radar equipment last year.

In June, July and August 2004 the radars were put into operation as a test. Vessels were placed out at sea to test the radar’s reach. The results were positive and the lease contract was signed till August 2007. A year later it becomes apparent that the radar’s efficiency is somewhat different in reality compared to the theoretical press presentation of Raytheon. Project coordinator Kelly confirms Dompig’s statement that high waves influence the efficiency of the radar. “The radar works well, but not during all types of weather. Heavy rainfall causes all kinds of spots on the screen, which makes it difficult to discern small boats. But, then again, no radar is full proof.”

Which could explain why in November 2005, Aruba entered into a new contract with Raytheon. However, Dompig stated in his interview that the radar of the night of May 30, 2005 would “have accounted for every boat in the water the night Natalee vanished”. That seems to be disputed by the Amigoe article.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/03/28/gerold-dompig-states-in-48-hours-interview-that-radar-system-in-full-proof-really/

Natalee disappeared in good weather.

[wreck]

Aruba didn't have their new super duper radar, the did have something and they tested it in 2004 -

Gerold Dompig during his CBS 48 Hours interview stated that experiments were done with dummies being thrown over board in the water; every time they drifted back to shore. The only way this would not occur was if a boat sailed more than two miles off shore. Dompig then stated, “a trip that would have turned up on police radar and been captured on tape. Police have accounted for every boat in the water the night Natalee vanished“.

Cruz says he and his team have tossed a dummy overboard many times, but that in every case, it drifted back to shore. The only way that wouldn’t happen is if a boat sailed more than two miles offshore — a trip that would have turned up on police radar and been captured on tape.

Police have accounted for every boat in the water the night Natalee vanished.

That is quite a different story compared to the Amigoe article back in November 2005 entitled, “Radar-system not watertight”.

ORANJESTAD — The radar-system that monitors the coastline is not watertight. People still manage to enter Aruba illegally from sea. This was stated by the general commander of Warda nos Costa, Gerold Dompig. His statement challenges the words of Justice-minister Rudy Croes (MEP) who closed a lease contract for the radar equipment last year.

In June, July and August 2004 the radars were put into operation as a test. Vessels were placed out at sea to test the radar’s reach. The results were positive and the lease contract was signed till August 2007. A year later it becomes apparent that the radar’s efficiency is somewhat different in reality compared to the theoretical press presentation of Raytheon. Project coordinator Kelly confirms Dompig’s statement that high waves influence the efficiency of the radar. “The radar works well, but not during all types of weather. Heavy rainfall causes all kinds of spots on the screen, which makes it difficult to discern small boats. But, then again, no radar is full proof.”

Which could explain why in November 2005, Aruba entered into a new contract with Raytheon. However, Dompig stated in his interview that the radar of the night of May 30, 2005 would “have accounted for every boat in the water the night Natalee vanished”. That seems to be disputed by the Amigoe article.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/03/28/gerold-dompig-states-in-48-hours-interview-that-radar-system-in-full-proof-really/

Natalee disappeared in good weather.

Again, so what if they PERFECT radar May 30th, 2005 --- I don't think she was disposed of that night anyways. What did their radar show MONDAY night???????????

[WhiskeyGirl]

  #7 (permalink)    Friday, June 15th, 2007, 08:16 AM 
 ScubaBOS 
Aruba Expert   Join Date: April 15th, 2004
Location: BOS
Posts: 546
 
 
 Re: A big drug bust in the marina harbor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From what I could make out from Diario it looks like the boat was tracked by radar heading from Venezuela and they seized 70 kilos.

When we were there in March we watched as the police helicopter hovered over the water towards the Westin/Wyndham end of Palm Beach. There was a boat heading towards shore.


When a fishing boat departs on a fishing epedition, it's not always fish they're looking for. It happens along the FLA often. A mother ship drops bales of drugs off into the water a a give location and then a second boat comes along to catch what was left behind.

http://bb.visitaruba.com/f57/big-drug-bust-marina-harbor-7172/

I wonder how many drug busts were aided by radar prior to Natalee's disappearance?  How many may have been reported in Diario?

[WhiskeyGirl]

Aruba didn't have their new super duper radar, the did have something and they tested it in 2004 -

Gerold Dompig during his CBS 48 Hours interview stated that experiments were done with dummies being thrown over board in the water; every time they drifted back to shore. The only way this would not occur was if a boat sailed more than two miles off shore. Dompig then stated, “a trip that would have turned up on police radar and been captured on tape. Police have accounted for every boat in the water the night Natalee vanished“.

Cruz says he and his team have tossed a dummy overboard many times, but that in every case, it drifted back to shore. The only way that wouldn’t happen is if a boat sailed more than two miles offshore — a trip that would have turned up on police radar and been captured on tape.

Police have accounted for every boat in the water the night Natalee vanished.

That is quite a different story compared to the Amigoe article back in November 2005 entitled, “Radar-system not watertight”.

ORANJESTAD — The radar-system that monitors the coastline is not watertight. People still manage to enter Aruba illegally from sea. This was stated by the general commander of Warda nos Costa, Gerold Dompig. His statement challenges the words of Justice-minister Rudy Croes (MEP) who closed a lease contract for the radar equipment last year.

In June, July and August 2004 the radars were put into operation as a test. Vessels were placed out at sea to test the radar’s reach. The results were positive and the lease contract was signed till August 2007. A year later it becomes apparent that the radar’s efficiency is somewhat different in reality compared to the theoretical press presentation of Raytheon. Project coordinator Kelly confirms Dompig’s statement that high waves influence the efficiency of the radar. “The radar works well, but not during all types of weather. Heavy rainfall causes all kinds of spots on the screen, which makes it difficult to discern small boats. But, then again, no radar is full proof.”

Which could explain why in November 2005, Aruba entered into a new contract with Raytheon. However, Dompig stated in his interview that the radar of the night of May 30, 2005 would “have accounted for every boat in the water the night Natalee vanished”. That seems to be disputed by the Amigoe article.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/03/28/gerold-dompig-states-in-48-hours-interview-that-radar-system-in-full-proof-really/

Natalee disappeared in good weather.

Again, so what if they PERFECT radar May 30th, 2005 --- I don't think she was disposed of that night anyways. What did their radar show MONDAY night???????????

What is really known about the capabilities of the radar?  Were there records made with the old radar?  How could they look back on any night and say it was 'clear' if they didn't have some kind of record?

[wreck]

The bottom line is Aruba is LYING. They don't track or account for EVERY boat that comes and goes. You can't tell me they know EVERY pleasure craft that comes and goes. Even if they did, they sure as hell don't know what/who is on each boat or the purpose of their trip. The whole radar thing is meaningless.

[San]

So rubber boats wouldn't show up on radar very much if it was in fact even turned on.  And a small one would not make much noise which would also be a factor that late at night.  Wouldn't want a boat with big motor at that hour.  Van Loon's boat would fit but not much else about him would.  Don't think he has known connection to Joran and was older than the pimp creeps.

I think it depends on the radar.  If you're aiming for the sky, that's what you see.

I saw a radar in action demonstration earlier this year.  The birds on the water, the fishermen on the shore, and all the buildings along with other water traffic all showed up. 

Learning to understand the blips is a skill that needs to be developed over time.

The demonstrator had many years of experience watching birds, small boats, and people on radar.

Why wouldn't Aruba see rubber boats on radar?  What exactly is that radar for?

I also remember someone, Dompig maybe, saying that they had such good radar, they saw all the people on the beaches at night.

What kind of radar do they have and what are it's capabilities?

First of all, regardless of the "quality" of Aruba's radar -- the fact is, it was "turned off" that night. Second of all, the radar question to me is moot, as I don't think the disposal happened that night anyways. Thirdly, no matter WHEN the body was disposed of -- a "daurry" will have a much smaller footprint than a larger motorboat or ship.

How small is to small?  How many boats were from the music festival?  I recall that some suggested here was a lot of boat traffic.

Would noise be a problem?  What of all the commerical fishermen?  Cruise ships in the early morning hours?  Drug traffic?

How would any Aruban 'clear' all the water traffic after the fact?  Days, weeks, or months later?

The 'fishermen' didn't see anyone that matched JVDS description.  JVDS...saw lots of people on the beach, but none have come forward to support his stories.  And, to this day, no one really knows which Kalpoe came with the taxi to pick him up and drive him home.

I wonder how often the radar goes off in Aruba.

1. I believe Natalee was disposed of the following night.

2. Police had everything covered.  Commercial Fisherman aren't going to go against the police.  Drug dealers aren't a problem either.  Do you really think one of them is going to say Hey I'm a drug dealer and I saw something.  I don't think so.  They probably buried a few themselves with the help of the police.  The old saying "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yourS".  They are all crooked and wouldn't come forward out of fear.

3. They were never at the beach.

4. The radar goes off whenever the police tell them to shut it off.

5. Jossy Mansur said they were instructed to turn the radar off.

[San]

ART WOOD SAID "THIS WAS A PROFESSIONAL COVERUP".  IN MY OPINION THAT'S ALL YOU NEED TO MAKE IT SUCCEED.

THEY WERE ALL PLAYING THE DUMB ROLE.  YOU JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND OUR SYSTEM.  THE FIRST FEW WEEKS WERE CRUCIAL AND THAT ACT GAVE THEM TIME TO COMPLETE THE COVERUP.

THIRD WORLD COUNTRY MY ASS.

[Magnolia]

I am with Wreck on this....there is no radar that tracks every pleasure boat that goes out at night.

Even if there is, nobody is going to tell us about it or release any information.  I think Dompig and
Josey have said all that is going to be said.

I think they took her out the next day anyway.

[San]

I am with Wreck on this....there is no radar that tracks every pleasure boat that goes out at night.

Even if there is, nobody is going to tell us about it or release any information.  I think Dompig and
Josey have said all that is going to be said.

I think they took her out the next day anyway.

 

We have gotten a few teasers over the years from Jossy.  We have always heard he has this information or he has that.  What has he really shown us.  A little bit here, a little bit there but nothing that would crack this case open.

[Magnolia]

I am with Wreck on this....there is no radar that tracks every pleasure boat that goes out at night.

Even if there is, nobody is going to tell us about it or release any information.  I think Dompig and
Josey have said all that is going to be said.

I think they took her out the next day anyway.

 

We have gotten a few teasers over the years from Jossy.  We have always heard he has this information or he has that.  What has he really shown us.  A little bit here, a little bit there but nothing that would crack this case open.

Remember that tape that Josey made of Dompig in his office saying that he had enough evidence to arrest all
three boys at that time?   I have always wondered what ever came of that and why it wasn't used.
Dompig didn't know he was being recorded.  I think it was on Jane Valez Mitchell's show.

[texasmom]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_66323.php

Google translation:

Curacao

FOL-based view thorn in Chavez

December 11, 2009, 13:18 (GMT -04:00)


 
PHILIPSBURG - The U.S. FOL based on Hato airport can not escape local and international discussion. That is being fueled mainly by the Venezuelan president Hugo Chávez, who recently reiterated uitliet negatively on the operations of the U.S. Air Force as close to Venezuela. The U.S. base stationed here in the past F-16 fighter planes. Today it is mainly specialized in aircraft gathering intelligence. Formally, these services are combating trafficking from Colombia. Venezuela are open to doubt and see the Americans here as a threat. The picture on the ground a Boeing RC-135 Rivet Joint surveillance aircraft with some regularity Hato state.

I have always felt that this FOL base afforded Aruba special treatment from our governemnt and likely prevented any formal travel warnings, etc.

I also think it was the card played by Aruba when they visited Congressman Bachus and he came out and only said "Wiretaps" that they threatened to not allow it if he and the State Dept did not back off.

And while Uncle Hugo is a tremendous buffoon, he does continue to warrant close observation as he does things like his recent deal to purchase $2 BILLION in arms from Russia and his chats with Iran for developing nukes of his own.

Speaking of...

12/9/2009 Awe Mainta Front Page & Page 3

http://awemainta.com/home/



Papiamentu translation:

chavez is sospecha cu coin steal for of banconan at venezuela, is in one banco at aruba come across



Papiamentu translation:

chairman of venezuela chavez is sospecha cu coin steal for of banconan at venezuela, is in one banco at aruba

recientemente chairman of venezuela, hugo chavez owing to let close 4 banco comercial at aruba (I think they meant to say Venezuela), where owing to stay conclui cu the banconan here owing to steal very much coin at venezuela. the.o. owing to steal coin for of the compania of petroleum, pdvsa.

but thing cu owing to calling atencion was the mature cu now hugo chavez is tell, cu the is sospecha cu great part of the coin steal here is hinca in one banco at aruba, cu is pertenece at one are of venezolano powerful, kendenan owing to open recientemente one banco at aruba, cu the aim here for sconde coin steal.

bayendo bek in history, t’asina cu not have none banco comercial cu owing to open recientemente at aruba, but owing to come resulta cu is one banco off-shore, cu is conoci because; bba-bank. one banco cu owing to achieve aprobacion of banco central of aruba, for cual is dificil believe thing cu chairman chavez is insinua.

the banco here is being maneha for nelo loefstop because; his director, but buscando informacion, we of awemainta owing to achieve informacion cu nel loefstop owing to entrega his retiro, y of acuerdo cu we informacion, for motibo of salud. we was wanted owing to achieve his version of the situation here, where chavez is tell cu the banco here is sconde coin steal for of venezuela.

we did take contacto also cu banco central, cu have one division of supervision of banconan at aruba, but not was possible for achieve one vocero of the division here, for know kico is kico. because we not can believe cu bao of eye of division of supervision, the maniobra here will is tumando lugar, cu is dunando aruba one bad name.

owing to deal of achieve the director general of banco central, sra. jane semeleer, but not owing to being informa cu the is cu vakantie. wanted mean, dificil for achieve one version on the insinuacion of chairman of venezuela, hugo chavez, cu at aruba, have banco is participa at help saca fondonan of banconan comercial for sconde this at aruba. come across

[texasmom]

Sorry, forgot to add the link.   

Would a kind mod please add it for me?  TIA 


http://awemainta.com/home/

[Buckeye]

I am with Wreck on this....there is no radar that tracks every pleasure boat that goes out at night.

Even if there is, nobody is going to tell us about it or release any information.  I think Dompig and
Josey have said all that is going to be said.

I think they took her out the next day anyway.

 

We have gotten a few teasers over the years from Jossy.  We have always heard he has this information or he has that.  What has he really shown us.  A little bit here, a little bit there but nothing that would crack this case open.

Remember that tape that Josey made of Dompig in his office saying that he had enough evidence to arrest all
three boys at that time?   I have always wondered what ever came of that and why it wasn't used.
Dompig didn't know he was being recorded.  I think it was on Jane Valez Mitchell's show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek0H5zgko1U&feature=channel_page

[San]

I am with Wreck on this....there is no radar that tracks every pleasure boat that goes out at night.

Even if there is, nobody is going to tell us about it or release any information.  I think Dompig and
Josey have said all that is going to be said.

I think they took her out the next day anyway.

 

We have gotten a few teasers over the years from Jossy.  We have always heard he has this information or he has that.  What has he really shown us.  A little bit here, a little bit there but nothing that would crack this case open.

Remember that tape that Josey made of Dompig in his office saying that he had enough evidence to arrest all
three boys at that time?   I have always wondered what ever came of that and why it wasn't used.
Dompig didn't know he was being recorded.  I think it was on Jane Valez Mitchell's show.

I had a hard time believing that tape.  Dompig was too casual and too cool.  For some reason I always thought that Dompig knew he was being recorded but why he did that is unclear.  Was it for some kind of leverage against the people who were protecting Paulus.  Did he do it so the powers that be would play fair with his side of the family also (Kalpoes).

[Magnolia]

I am with Wreck on this....there is no radar that tracks every pleasure boat that goes out at night.

Even if there is, nobody is going to tell us about it or release any information.  I think Dompig and
Josey have said all that is going to be said.

I think they took her out the next day anyway.

 

We have gotten a few teasers over the years from Jossy.  We have always heard he has this information or he has that.  What has he really shown us.  A little bit here, a little bit there but nothing that would crack this case open.

Remember that tape that Josey made of Dompig in his office saying that he had enough evidence to arrest all
three boys at that time?   I have always wondered what ever came of that and why it wasn't used.
Dompig didn't know he was being recorded.  I think it was on Jane Valez Mitchell's show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek0H5zgko1U&feature=channel_page

Thanks, Buckeye!

[San]

I am with Wreck on this....there is no radar that tracks every pleasure boat that goes out at night.

Even if there is, nobody is going to tell us about it or release any information.  I think Dompig and
Josey have said all that is going to be said.

I think they took her out the next day anyway.

 

We have gotten a few teasers over the years from Jossy.  We have always heard he has this information or he has that.  What has he really shown us.  A little bit here, a little bit there but nothing that would crack this case open.

Remember that tape that Josey made of Dompig in his office saying that he had enough evidence to arrest all
three boys at that time?   I have always wondered what ever came of that and why it wasn't used.
Dompig didn't know he was being recorded.  I think it was on Jane Valez Mitchell's show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek0H5zgko1U&feature=channel_page

Thanks, Buckeye!

I'm having a problem viewing the video. 

[Buckeye]

I am with Wreck on this....there is no radar that tracks every pleasure boat that goes out at night.

Even if there is, nobody is going to tell us about it or release any information.  I think Dompig and
Josey have said all that is going to be said.

I think they took her out the next day anyway.

 

We have gotten a few teasers over the years from Jossy.  We have always heard he has this information or he has that.  What has he really shown us.  A little bit here, a little bit there but nothing that would crack this case open.

Remember that tape that Josey made of Dompig in his office saying that he had enough evidence to arrest all
three boys at that time?   I have always wondered what ever came of that and why it wasn't used.
Dompig didn't know he was being recorded.  I think it was on Jane Valez Mitchell's show.

I had a hard time believing that tape.  Dompig was too casual and too cool.  For some reason I always thought that Dompig knew he was being recorded but why he did that is unclear.  Was it for some kind of leverage against the people who were protecting Paulus.  Did he do it so the powers that be would play fair with his side of the family also (Kalpoes).

Maybe he wanted to take the focus off "murder" and concentrate on sexual assault, knowing the three would declare it was consensual and therefore getting rid of the possible eight years.