Lively Case Discussion #561 12/16 - 12/18/2006

[Cat]

i wanted to say hey.We are recoving here,so we are blessed.The real question I have is,aren't there more than 1 mob.A columbian cartel,a Chicago money based group and etc.I always thought that the k2's were involved in scams,money laudering and coordinting shipments by computer.I heard that aruba was a convient way station,to to transfer drugs from Europe,and South America,as well as money.I have noticed that joran does protest to much.Way to much,he always wants to point to others.A tired Cat

[bleachedblack]

Actually this is a pretty good piece.......couldn't resist...

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

September 22, 2005
HarryTho On The Natalee Holloway Case: Was Michael Posner in the mob?
Topics: Natalee Holloway

A reader at another site asked if the Mike Posner of Aruba is the same Mike Posner from the Chicago Mob. The answer is yes. He did some time in the 80s, but after his release the Chicago outfit rewarded him by putting him in charge of their Aruba interests. In Chicago he was identified in the newspapers as “The Vice Kingpin of the Northwest Suburbs.” He ran gambling, adult bookstores, strip clubs and prostitution. You'll recall that Posner and Natalee went missing during the same week, which is too much of a coincidence to simply ignore. According to the early posts on Dan Reihl's site, Posner met Natalee at the Excelsior Casino. I believe it was at the same time that Natalee introduced herself to Joran van der Sloot.

Posner certainly had the ability to make Natalee disappear. From the comments on the excelsior Casino that they cater to a lot of wealthy South Americans, I would suspect that Posner would be our connection to the sex trade. He is the King of the Bums in Aruba. He knows what is going on criminal-wise. The fact that Natalee has not appeared, tells me that he had something to do with her disappearance.

I have suspected Posner's involvement all along, but I had never previously suspected that he had a criminal record from Chicago, at least until the information came out. How the Aruba police have not clamped down on this guy is simply amazing. But, Posner could have had an arrangement with the former Police Chief van der Straaten.

As reported: Michael Posner owns the Excelsior Casino in Aruba, and caters mostly to "Spaniards". From what I gather from the Excelsior's casino info, some 30% of the gamblers come from South America. These are experienced gamblers used to playing for high stakes. Hence, they are South Americans with money!

On another note, the Excelsior Casino is a pioneer in on-line gambling.

Also, Michal Posner bought the Grand Holiday Casino (GHC) and changed the name to the Excelsior Casino on 1 September 1998.

Posted for HarryTho

http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/09/harrytho_on_the.php

[crazybabyborg]

Betcha that document is part of the reason that JQK filed a wrongful DEATH suit, instead of something else for Deepak.

[klaasend]

This is the design I used for the small poster that's in Cafepress.  I added Hammer's picture CBB created to this one that I'll post to start the next LCD thread. Kindof late now to change the picture in Caferess.:

[bleachedblack]

i wanted to say hey.We are recoving here,so we are blessed.The real question I have is,aren't there more than 1 mob.A columbian cartel,a Chicago money based group and etc.I always thought that the k2's were involved in scams,money laudering and coordinting shipments by computer.I heard that aruba was a convient way station,to to transfer drugs from Europe,and South America,as well as money.I have noticed that joran does protest to much.Way to much,he always wants to point to others.A tired Cat

IMO they are not that big a pair of fish........

[justinsmama]

Have you ever tried to do therapy with someone who is not too terribly close to the norm on intelligence? It is extremely difficult, if not damn near impossible to do. At least, not the usual "talk", insight oriented therapy or even cognitive behavioral therapy. Generally, such folks instead benefit most from a very directive (though kind) approach. It is with those clients only that I actually tell them what to do. And even at that, my "directions" are very small, one to two step behaviors that I instruct the client to perform.

Hummm, are you saying that substance abusers tend toward not being too terribly close to the norm on intelligence?

LMAO! If that were the case, I would not have the level of education and highly developed talents that I do!

LOL Justinsmama!! I was waiting for you to say that...I was about to add, "NO, just the opposite, actually, Carnut..."
             

Mish~ Or if not too terribly close to the intelligence norm, then on the other side of that bell curve!

[justinsmama]

Klaas~ That tree would make a fabulous Christmas card!

[the big hammer]

Closed Hearings, Closed Rooms, Closed to the "Public"

Klaas writes: See my quote above from the Dr. Phil show?

*********************************************

INGMAR: ...So--so he was, like, telling that he knows that Deepak did it. He says that he can point to place where he--Deepak Kalpoe buried the body. So actually--and so this was signed by all--all four policemen.

McGRAW: And this is signed by four police officers.

Mr. SKEETERS: And given to the prosecutor on the--for the--the justice system, and not given to the court.

**********************************************

And this one was inadmissable because...........?????

The goon failed to sign?

Sure sounds like he's accusing Deepak of murder (sotaspeak).

.

[klaasend]

Closed Hearings, Closed Rooms, Closed to the "Public"

Klaas writes: See my quote above from the Dr. Phil show?

*********************************************

INGMAR: ...So--so he was, like, telling that he knows that Deepak did it. He says that he can point to place where he--Deepak Kalpoe buried the body. So actually--and so this was signed by all--all four policemen.

McGRAW: And this is signed by four police officers.

Mr. SKEETERS: And given to the prosecutor on the--for the--the justice system, and not given to the court.

**********************************************

And this one was inadmissable because...........?????

The goon failed to sign?

Sure sounds like he's accusing Deepak of murder (sotaspeak).

.

What about all the video taping they were supposed to be doing of interrogations?  I suppose the video camera wasn't working that day, huh?

[the big hammer]

SM Christmas Tree --

Klaas, thanks.  No problem re: cafe express print deadline.  I completely understand.

Thanks for including me on the list, and thanks to CBB for giving me a Christmas "coating".

The tree looks terrific.

.

[klaasend]

You're very welcome Hammer.  You are on the SCROLL for the ones already in Cafepress.  

[klaasend]

HAMMER - maybe you can answer a question for me.  In the USA, if a suspect is questioned but refuses to sign the statement, can it still be used as evidence?  I think it can.

[the big hammer]

Devastating Leaks

Klaas writes: What about all the video taping they were supposed to be doing of interrogations? I suppose the video camera wasn't working that day, huh?

Indeed.

In their context, intent and chronology, many of these statements were never supposed to be seen by the public.  The closed Dutch Aruban system would've taken care of that.

That these statements, and the many other statements, are now open to public scrutiny is really a disaster for Aruba and the prosecutor.  These statements make them look incompetent or worse.

Whoever leaked these "official statements" knows what happened, I'd wager.

.
[/i]

[LilPuma]

i wanted to say hey.We are recoving here,so we are blessed.The real question I have is,aren't there more than 1 mob.A columbian cartel,a Chicago money based group and etc.I always thought that the k2's were involved in scams,money laudering and coordinting shipments by computer.I heard that aruba was a convient way station,to to transfer drugs from Europe,and South America,as well as money.I have noticed that joran does protest to much.Way to much,he always wants to point to others.A tired Cat

I think a good part of the Carribean is used for drug smuggling and money laundering.  We've all wondered where Joran gets his gambling and drinking money.  Wouldn't surprise me if these guys were involved in something illegal.

[crazybabyborg]

You're welcome, Hammer. Merry Christmas!

If 4 people witnessed Joran say that, it's not hearsay and I would think that it could come in through their testimony.

[crazybabyborg]

Remember the documents Beth got out of Aruba? Wonder if that was one of them.

[bleachedblack]

The transcript from the November Dr Phil show is very disturbing in parts, and serves to remind me when I read it that the people behind the scenes in Venezuela, Mexico or Aruba are truely dangerous killers without bounds. This is an excerpt spoken by Ty Ritter, PI hired by Dr Phil.......

"We were trying to recover children that were being filmed, and I found this girl.They had tied her to a bed. They had driven a large nail through the top of her head. When the nail is in the brain,it causes the body to convulse. As she's convulsing they are having sex and filming until she dies. On her bottom, she had a tatoo of a ram's head in a circle. That's a tatoo they use for branding children. The expert told us the tatoo was at least 10 years old.
She was approximately 18.19 years old. So this girl ended up in sexual slavery at a very young age."

[LilPuma]

Bleachedblack, I won't copy your post about sex slavery, but this is the one instance where I would encourage "suicide by cop" being arranged by the cops.

[LilPuma]

You're welcome, Hammer. Merry Christmas!

If 4 people witnessed Joran say that, it's not hearsay and I would think that it could come in through their testimony.

I don't think the hearsay rules apply to signed statements by detectives who are present during interrogations.  

[sb]

bleachedblack's post reminds me of  a striking statement that I heard early on in the case.

Someone claimed that the idea of a "snuff film" was a figment of the imagination. That nothing like that ever took place. That there was NO DOCUMENTED INSTANCE of it ever happening.

Well, here is the proof. People DO film the death of others in a sexually explicit context. That post is proof of that. I knew that claim was bogus- I mean, what was Daniel Pearl's death, anyway? People filmed his murder and sent the film to the authorities here in the US. What's the difference, except that he was not sexually assaulted?

Therer is no doubt at all that there IS such a thing as a "snuff film" and that they are bigger business than we can know.