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Author Topic: Shaniya Nicole Davis #2 11/17/09 -  (Read 510256 times)
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Jerseygirl345
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« Reply #1500 on: November 24, 2009, 08:47:20 PM »

Good Evening Everyone!!
I live in North Carolina and I know a little about how they do things in my county and some surrounding counties.  Social services expects children in a home to each have their own bed for one thing.  A couch doesn't qualify as a bed.  You also cannot put two siblings in the same room together if they are the same sex.  Children are not allowed to sleep in the same bed with a parent.  I think social services could have really thrown the book at AD if they had wanted too.  Also there must be food in the house.  I don't know the size of the mobile home but given what we know of all that were staying there they could not have met those requirements IMO.  I also wonder about AD "allowing" Brad to have Shaniya for so long.  Would that qualify as abandonment.  I don't know because I've heard of cases where someone just dropped their kids off with a friend or even with the grandparents and didn't come back for an extended period of time (don't know how long of a time if years would qualify.  Seems as long as the parent knew the child was taken care of they could go on their merry little way without even so much as a phone call to the child.  The child then becomes the responsibility of the caretaker.  It does seem like Brad could have obtained custody as it doesn't seem like AD was able to provide even the most basic necessities.IMO

This whole mess also gives rise to another legal question I have about this whole thing.  Assuming (keyword here) that Brad was not on the birth certificate then the question was what is the difference between AD letting Shaniya go live with a man for 3 or 4 years or go for a weekend.  See the dilemma here????  WTH is going on in this case??????  IMO how does the law know or make that distinction.  I guess what I'm asking is if Shaniya had not died what was going on.  Her death has she shed a lot of light on some very important issues.



Very good post...
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Tracygirl
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« Reply #1501 on: November 24, 2009, 08:49:26 PM »

snipped from Penny..

Brad could of tried to get in touch with his daughter and if he couldn't he could of called the police for well check... He could of call someone to go physically and check on Shaniya..Then he could of called DSS.. He could of called the school to see if she was attending. IMO there was alot Brad could of done to make sure Shaniya was ok and safe.. Brad knew about the enviroment and was not such a good area.. I know if that was my daughter who I love so much I would of made sure she was safe but then again I would of never gave the POS monster a second chance....

See this is the thing I am trying to say..He didn't do anything. I sure wish Jess would chime in regarding the legal issues of custody in this case because I would like to know if there is an assumed guardianship because Shaniya lived with her father full time. There has to be some kind of protection for the child.
i am not jess or a lawyer but i am familiar with how dss and welfare and custody works... it would have definitely helped alot in the custody case if there was one but just because you have had a kid in your posession for x ammount of time does not automatically make you the guardian
1. As they were talking on the phone, police knocked on Carey Lockhart's door. They had found her name listed as a guardian at Shaniya's elementary school.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/408/story/1060102.html




I don't know how reliable this is but here is a link to what a legal guardian is. I am thinking a parent can assign a legal guardian in the case that parent can't take over. Now I wonder and if Jess is around maybe he can answer, I wonder if by giving Shaniya to Brad he was then given or granted legal guardianship of Shaniya.
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Jerseygirl345
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« Reply #1502 on: November 24, 2009, 08:49:41 PM »

Good Evening Everyone!!
I live in North Carolina and I know a little about how they do things in my county and some surrounding counties.  Social services expects children in a home to each have their own bed for one thing.  A couch doesn't qualify as a bed.  You also cannot put two siblings in the same room together if they are the same sex.  Children are not allowed to sleep in the same bed with a parent.  I think social services could have really thrown the book at AD if they had wanted too.  Also there must be food in the house.  I don't know the size of the mobile home but given what we know of all that were staying there they could not have met those requirements IMO.  I also wonder about AD "allowing" Brad to have Shaniya for so long.  Would that qualify as abandonment.  I don't know because I've heard of cases where someone just dropped their kids off with a friend or even with the grandparents and didn't come back for an extended period of time (don't know how long of a time if years would qualify.  Seems as long as the parent knew the child was taken care of they could go on their merry little way without even so much as a phone call to the child.  The child then becomes the responsibility of the caretaker.  It does seem like Brad could have obtained custody as it doesn't seem like AD was able to provide even the most basic necessities.IMO

This whole mess also gives rise to another legal question I have about this whole thing.  Assuming (keyword here) that Brad was not on the birth certificate then the question was what is the difference between AD letting Shaniya go live with a man for 3 or 4 years or go for a weekend.  See the dilemma here????  WTH is going on in this case??????  IMO how does the law know or make that distinction.  I guess what I'm asking is if Shaniya had not died what was going on.  Her death has she shed a lot of light on some very important issues.



Very good post...

DSS could of check the management company of the complex and their name was not on the lease..
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Tracygirl
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« Reply #1503 on: November 24, 2009, 08:50:13 PM »

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-legal-guardian.htm

Oops here is the link. I have read several others about this today, but just posting this one as it is one of the easier to understand.
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Tracygirl
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« Reply #1504 on: November 24, 2009, 08:55:56 PM »

Good Evening Everyone!!
I live in North Carolina and I know a little about how they do things in my county and some surrounding counties.  Social services expects children in a home to each have their own bed for one thing.  A couch doesn't qualify as a bed.  You also cannot put two siblings in the same room together if they are the same sex.  Children are not allowed to sleep in the same bed with a parent.  I think social services could have really thrown the book at AD if they had wanted too.  Also there must be food in the house.  I don't know the size of the mobile home but given what we know of all that were staying there they could not have met those requirements IMO.  I also wonder about AD "allowing" Brad to have Shaniya for so long.  Would that qualify as abandonment.  I don't know because I've heard of cases where someone just dropped their kids off with a friend or even with the grandparents and didn't come back for an extended period of time (don't know how long of a time if years would qualify.  Seems as long as the parent knew the child was taken care of they could go on their merry little way without even so much as a phone call to the child.  The child then becomes the responsibility of the caretaker.  It does seem like Brad could have obtained custody as it doesn't seem like AD was able to provide even the most basic necessities.IMO

This whole mess also gives rise to another legal question I have about this whole thing.  Assuming (keyword here) that Brad was not on the birth certificate then the question was what is the difference between AD letting Shaniya go live with a man for 3 or 4 years or go for a weekend.  See the dilemma here????  WTH is going on in this case??????  IMO how does the law know or make that distinction.  I guess what I'm asking is if Shaniya had not died what was going on.  Her death has she shed a lot of light on some very important issues.



Very interesting points. Geez this whole thing is a train wreck. That is why I said there are a lot of lessons to be learned from this little girls life and death.
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penny for your thoughts
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« Reply #1505 on: November 24, 2009, 09:02:19 PM »

guys i'm not going to reply to any one post on this but here is my take... if cops were called they would have at best taken her into dcf custody that night or next day after an investigation you can put 2 siblings of different sex in the same bed if there is an age difference of less then 4 years and a couch could constitute as a bed and just because she did not have a bed at the time of a 911 call it would not be grounds for the cops to take her into custody and before placing a child into foster care they try to place them with fam members and yes unliveable conditions like tolet all over the house could have constitued immediate removal but all she would have had to do is say no problem the toilet thing just happened we'll go stay at my mom's...
i agree brad would have most likely been granted custody in te long run and the key woord there is LONG run it would have taken months if not longer and there would have been nothing to stop the bio mom from taking off with shaniya if she really wanted her and got wind that brad was making plans to even go for custody later on... just saying there was nothing brad could  have done that would have happened in time for her to be saved...
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4getUnot
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« Reply #1506 on: November 24, 2009, 09:06:16 PM »

Good Evening Everyone!!
I live in North Carolina and I know a little about how they do things in my county and some surrounding counties.  Social services expects children in a home to each have their own bed for one thing.  A couch doesn't qualify as a bed.  You also cannot put two siblings in the same room together if they are the same sex.  Children are not allowed to sleep in the same bed with a parent.  I think social services could have really thrown the book at AD if they had wanted too.  Also there must be food in the house.  I don't know the size of the mobile home but given what we know of all that were staying there they could not have met those requirements IMO.  I also wonder about AD "allowing" Brad to have Shaniya for so long.  Would that qualify as abandonment.  I don't know because I've heard of cases where someone just dropped their kids off with a friend or even with the grandparents and didn't come back for an extended period of time (don't know how long of a time if years would qualify.  Seems as long as the parent knew the child was taken care of they could go on their merry little way without even so much as a phone call to the child.  The child then becomes the responsibility of the caretaker.  It does seem like Brad could have obtained custody as it doesn't seem like AD was able to provide even the most basic necessities.IMO

This whole mess also gives rise to another legal question I have about this whole thing.  Assuming (keyword here) that Brad was not on the birth certificate then the question was what is the difference between AD letting Shaniya go live with a man for 3 or 4 years or go for a weekend.  See the dilemma here????  WTH is going on in this case??????  IMO how does the law know or make that distinction.  I guess what I'm asking is if Shaniya had not died what was going on.  Her death has she shed a lot of light on some very important issues.



Very good post...
an angelic monkey

TY JG 
One more thing idnow in NC you just about have to video your husband in the act in order to get a divorce for adultery.  That makes me wonder how they charged AD for "allowing or pemitting an act of prostitution". Can't remember the exact wording but how did they know that.  She was charged before they found the body wasn't she???????????  I just have a bunch of questions.
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« Reply #1507 on: November 24, 2009, 09:08:36 PM »

snip from Penny post:

just saying there was nothing brad could  have done that would have happened in time for her to be saved...

all due respect Penny, but he could have tried...
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« Reply #1508 on: November 24, 2009, 09:09:11 PM »

snipped from Penny..

Brad could of tried to get in touch with his daughter and if he couldn't he could of called the police for well check... He could of call someone to go physically and check on Shaniya..Then he could of called DSS.. He could of called the school to see if she was attending. IMO there was alot Brad could of done to make sure Shaniya was ok and safe.. Brad knew about the enviroment and was not such a good area.. I know if that was my daughter who I love so much I would of made sure she was safe but then again I would of never gave the POS monster a second chance....

See this is the thing I am trying to say..He didn't do anything. I sure wish Jess would chime in regarding the legal issues of custody in this case because I would like to know if there is an assumed guardianship because Shaniya lived with her father full time. There has to be some kind of protection for the child.
i am not jess or a lawyer but i am familiar with how dss and welfare and custody works... it would have definitely helped alot in the custody case if there was one but just because you have had a kid in your posession for x ammount of time does not automatically make you the guardian
1. As they were talking on the phone, police knocked on Carey Lockhart's door. They had found her name listed as a guardian at Shaniya's elementary school.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/408/story/1060102.html




I don't know how reliable this is but here is a link to what a legal guardian is. I am thinking a parent can assign a legal guardian in the case that parent can't take over. Now I wonder and if Jess is around maybe he can answer, I wonder if by giving Shaniya to Brad he was then given or granted legal guardianship of Shaniya.
not unless there was legal docs to substantiate that he was her legal guardian .. he could have gone to court and made it official but the fact that dss had already evaluated and cleared bio mom is actually a plus in her corner...
and something everyone should know is that even if you have a will that says i have custody of my kids but if i die i want my parents to have legal custody it doesn't matter bio parent can swoop in from the rafters and assume guardianship even if he has never even met the child and until the grandparents and bio have a hearing on it bio dad would have custody unless ruled otherwise...
if you want to read some f'ed up scenarios of how legal custody vs moral decisions something similar.. look up nathaniel turner worcester mass... saddest story ever
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Jerseygirl345
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« Reply #1509 on: November 24, 2009, 09:09:55 PM »

guys i'm not going to reply to any one post on this but here is my take... if cops were called they would have at best taken her into dcf custody that night or next day after an investigation you can put 2 siblings of different sex in the same bed if there is an age difference of less then 4 years and a couch could constitute as a bed and just because she did not have a bed at the time of a 911 call it would not be grounds for the cops to take her into custody and before placing a child into foster care they try to place them with fam members and yes unliveable conditions like tolet all over the house could have constitued immediate removal but all she would have had to do is say no problem the toilet thing just happened we'll go stay at my mom's...
i agree brad would have most likely been granted custody in te long run and the key woord there is LONG run it would have taken months if not longer and there would have been nothing to stop the bio mom from taking off with shaniya if she really wanted her and got wind that brad was making plans to even go for custody later on... just saying there was nothing brad could  have done that would have happened in time for her to be saved...

Penny do you know how many people were living in that home.. 6 people in a 2 bedromm and POS AD was not on the lease.. LE condemed that home.. Did you see the mattress off the kitchen from the pics....The home was a disgrace..JMO
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Jerseygirl345
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« Reply #1510 on: November 24, 2009, 09:13:12 PM »

"There have been major DSS issues with this family who has custody, switching back and forth," Chance said.

Chance said it's unknown whether the child's disappearance is related to those issues. Police said Shaniya's father flew in from out of state Tuesday afternoon and was talking to investigators.


http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/11/11/crimesider/entry5614023.shtml
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penny for your thoughts
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« Reply #1511 on: November 24, 2009, 09:14:07 PM »

snip from Penny post:

just saying there was nothing brad could  have done that would have happened in time for her to be saved...

all due respect Penny, but he could have tried...
i know what you mean cookie but what i am saying is that some of the things you guys are suggesting would not have worked and would  have actually counted against him in a custody battle later on... maybe he was going the realistic route rather then the emotional route maybe he had his eye on the bigger picture of hopes to gain legal custody of her and hence be able to protect her permanently...  no one would have guessed that this would have been her fate maybe not even the bio mom... and i don't mean she didn't doit i mean we don't know for a fact that ahead of time the plan was to rape once and kill right after... i'm sure when this was concocted her being killed was not part of the original plan
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« Reply #1512 on: November 24, 2009, 09:18:43 PM »

snip from Penny post:

just saying there was nothing brad could  have done that would have happened in time for her to be saved...

all due respect Penny, but he could have tried...
i know what you mean cookie but what i am saying is that some of the things you guys are suggesting would not have worked and would  have actually counted against him in a custody battle later on... maybe he was going the realistic route rather then the emotional route maybe he had his eye on the bigger picture of hopes to gain legal custody of her and hence be able to protect her permanently...  no one would have guessed that this would have been her fate maybe not even the bio mom... and i don't mean she didn't doit i mean we don't know for a fact that ahead of time the plan was to rape once and kill right after... i'm sure when this was concocted her being killed was not part of the original plan

respect to you and your opinion...
I don't think that the plan was for Shaniya to end up dead either.....but she did..God bless her soul...
I still think that Brad was ready to move on with his life without Shaniya..that is why he so easily gave bio this child after so many years...he didn't even check where Shaniya would be living...she must have been so sad and so lonely...jmo...
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Jerseygirl345
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« Reply #1513 on: November 24, 2009, 09:19:41 PM »

snip from Penny post:

just saying there was nothing brad could  have done that would have happened in time for her to be saved...

all due respect Penny, but he could have tried...
i know what you mean cookie but what i am saying is that some of the things you guys are suggesting would not have worked and would  have actually counted against him in a custody battle later on... maybe he was going the realistic route rather then the emotional route maybe he had his eye on the bigger picture of hopes to gain legal custody of her and hence be able to protect her permanently...  no one would have guessed that this would have been her fate maybe not even the bio mom... and i don't mean she didn't doit i mean we don't know for a fact that ahead of time the plan was to rape once and kill right after... i'm sure when this was concocted her being killed was not part of the original plan

Shaniya Davis Found Dead Mother Antoinette Davis Charged With Prostitution Selling Child For Sex..

http://www.theinsider.com/news/3072387_Shaniya_Davis_Found_Dead_Mother_Antoinette_Davis_Charged_With_Prostitution_Selling_Child_For_Sex
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penny for your thoughts
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« Reply #1514 on: November 24, 2009, 09:29:51 PM »

guys i'm not going to reply to any one post on this but here is my take... if cops were called they would have at best taken her into dcf custody that night or next day after an investigation you can put 2 siblings of different sex in the same bed if there is an age difference of less then 4 years and a couch could constitute as a bed and just because she did not have a bed at the time of a 911 call it would not be grounds for the cops to take her into custody and before placing a child into foster care they try to place them with fam members and yes unliveable conditions like tolet all over the house could have constitued immediate removal but all she would have had to do is say no problem the toilet thing just happened we'll go stay at my mom's...
i agree brad would have most likely been granted custody in te long run and the key woord there is LONG run it would have taken months if not longer and there would have been nothing to stop the bio mom from taking off with shaniya if she really wanted her and got wind that brad was making plans to even go for custody later on... just saying there was nothing brad could  have done that would have happened in time for her to be saved...

Penny do you know how many people were living in that home.. 6 people in a 2 bedromm and POS AD was not on the lease.. LE condemed that home.. Did you see the mattress off the kitchen from the pics....The home was a disgrace..JMO
i know it was disgusting and condemed but my point is if the cops came that night she could have said okay fine i will take my kids and go stay somewhere else.. cops would have let her and dss would have been called but later on...
cops do well child checks not home living checks and unless brad or carey reported a crime or physical immediate danger then the cops would have not gone into the home... well child check would have been followed upby dss ... say if carey called and said omg my niece is in danger her mother is a crackhead and is acting irrational etc they could have gone to the home and met wit both child and mom on front porch... there was no current crime being commited to where the cops would have been even granted access to the inside of the home...
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Jerseygirl345
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« Reply #1515 on: November 24, 2009, 09:54:34 PM »

guys i'm not going to reply to any one post on this but here is my take... if cops were called they would have at best taken her into dcf custody that night or next day after an investigation you can put 2 siblings of different sex in the same bed if there is an age difference of less then 4 years and a couch could constitute as a bed and just because she did not have a bed at the time of a 911 call it would not be grounds for the cops to take her into custody and before placing a child into foster care they try to place them with fam members and yes unliveable conditions like tolet all over the house could have constitued immediate removal but all she would have had to do is say no problem the toilet thing just happened we'll go stay at my mom's...
i agree brad would have most likely been granted custody in te long run and the key woord there is LONG run it would have taken months if not longer and there would have been nothing to stop the bio mom from taking off with shaniya if she really wanted her and got wind that brad was making plans to even go for custody later on... just saying there was nothing brad could  have done that would have happened in time for her to be saved...

Penny do you know how many people were living in that home.. 6 people in a 2 bedromm and POS AD was not on the lease.. LE condemed that home.. Did you see the mattress off the kitchen from the pics....The home was a disgrace..JMO
i know it was disgusting and condemed but my point is if the cops came that night she could have said okay fine i will take my kids and go stay somewhere else.. cops would have let her and dss would have been called but later on...
cops do well child checks not home living checks and unless brad or carey reported a crime or physical immediate danger then the cops would have not gone into the home... well child check would have been followed upby dss ... say if carey called and said omg my niece is in danger her mother is a crackhead and is acting irrational etc they could have gone to the home and met wit both child and mom on front porch... there was no current crime being commited to where the cops would have been even granted access to the inside of the home...

Exactly.. brad made No calls no well checks...
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penny for your thoughts
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« Reply #1516 on: November 24, 2009, 10:14:26 PM »

guys i'm not going to reply to any one post on this but here is my take... if cops were called they would have at best taken her into dcf custody that night or next day after an investigation you can put 2 siblings of different sex in the same bed if there is an age difference of less then 4 years and a couch could constitute as a bed and just because she did not have a bed at the time of a 911 call it would not be grounds for the cops to take her into custody and before placing a child into foster care they try to place them with fam members and yes unliveable conditions like tolet all over the house could have constitued immediate removal but all she would have had to do is say no problem the toilet thing just happened we'll go stay at my mom's...
i agree brad would have most likely been granted custody in te long run and the key woord there is LONG run it would have taken months if not longer and there would have been nothing to stop the bio mom from taking off with shaniya if she really wanted her and got wind that brad was making plans to even go for custody later on... just saying there was nothing brad could  have done that would have happened in time for her to be saved...

Penny do you know how many people were living in that home.. 6 people in a 2 bedromm and POS AD was not on the lease.. LE condemed that home.. Did you see the mattress off the kitchen from the pics....The home was a disgrace..JMO
i know it was disgusting and condemed but my point is if the cops came that night she could have said okay fine i will take my kids and go stay somewhere else.. cops would have let her and dss would have been called but later on...
cops do well child checks not home living checks and unless brad or carey reported a crime or physical immediate danger then the cops would have not gone into the home... well child check would have been followed upby dss ... say if carey called and said omg my niece is in danger her mother is a crackhead and is acting irrational etc they could have gone to the home and met wit both child and mom on front porch... there was no current crime being commited to where the cops would have been even granted access to the inside of the home...

Exactly.. brad made No calls no well checks...
wow jerz i think this is the first time you and i have disagreed on something...
i mis worded that what it should have said was even if there was a well child cop call... what would the crime or immediate danger have been to report?
this is why i stopped posting on this thread (albeit for a day) i didn't want to argue with posters on a mute point
i would never try to dictate to a poster what they should discuss but unless we are sleuthing mm and ad and possible underground connections they had to porn sex rings etc then this is a dead issue for me whether you guys think he could  have prevented this or not doesn't really matter now and i do not want to bash a loving father who has just lost his daughter in a heinous way... back to the rafters i go...
love you monkeys 
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« Reply #1517 on: November 24, 2009, 10:17:50 PM »

snip from Penny post:

just saying there was nothing brad could  have done that would have happened in time for her to be saved...

all due respect Penny, but he could have tried...
i know what you mean cookie but what i am saying is that some of the things you guys are suggesting would not have worked and would  have actually counted against him in a custody battle later on... maybe he was going the realistic route rather then the emotional route maybe he had his eye on the bigger picture of hopes to gain legal custody of her and hence be able to protect her permanently...  no one would have guessed that this would have been her fate maybe not even the bio mom... and i don't mean she didn't doit i mean we don't know for a fact that ahead of time the plan was to rape once and kill right after... i'm sure when this was concocted her being killed was not part of the original plan

respect to you and your opinion...
I don't think that the plan was for Shaniya to end up dead either.....but she did..God bless her soul...
I still think that Brad was ready to move on with his life without Shaniya..that is why he so easily gave bio this child after so many years...he didn't even check where Shaniya would be living...she must have been so sad and so lonely...jmo...
if that was the case then why didn't he pawn her off on the neighbor or ex fil... now it is snowballing into you think he kind of wanted to get rid of her?
really?
i'm just going to go now
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« Reply #1518 on: November 24, 2009, 10:23:14 PM »

My DIL asked me a question tonight and I didn't know the answer....so HELP

AD was charge with selling Shaniya for sex...trafficking even before Shaniya was found.....how did the LE know what had happened?  I missed a lot of the earlier posts so.... What in the heck am I missing?



At the time Antoinette was arrested, McNeil was already in jail.  The police were questioning
Antionette off and on...as they put it, she was in and out of police headquarters.
I have wondered if McNeil talked or if Antoinette confessed to selling Shaniya.
I don't think we know yet.

thanks Magnolia...I thought it was Coe that was in jail....and McNeil turned himself in...oh well...see I told you I was confused!!  Thanks!!




You're correct. McNeil did turn himself in. Coe was the first one picked up, then he was later released after the hotel employee called LE. The videotapes surfaced, and they knew Coe wasn't the man they had on the hotel surveillance tapes. Once McNeil realized he was on the tape, and it became public knowledge, he turned himself in.
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« Reply #1519 on: November 24, 2009, 10:23:17 PM »

guys i'm not going to reply to any one post on this but here is my take... if cops were called they would have at best taken her into dcf custody that night or next day after an investigation you can put 2 siblings of different sex in the same bed if there is an age difference of less then 4 years and a couch could constitute as a bed and just because she did not have a bed at the time of a 911 call it would not be grounds for the cops to take her into custody and before placing a child into foster care they try to place them with fam members and yes unliveable conditions like tolet all over the house could have constitued immediate removal but all she would have had to do is say no problem the toilet thing just happened we'll go stay at my mom's...
i agree brad would have most likely been granted custody in te long run and the key woord there is LONG run it would have taken months if not longer and there would have been nothing to stop the bio mom from taking off with shaniya if she really wanted her and got wind that brad was making plans to even go for custody later on... just saying there was nothing brad could  have done that would have happened in time for her to be saved...

Penny do you know how many people were living in that home.. 6 people in a 2 bedromm and POS AD was not on the lease.. LE condemed that home.. Did you see the mattress off the kitchen from the pics....The home was a disgrace..JMO
i know it was disgusting and condemed but my point is if the cops came that night she could have said okay fine i will take my kids and go stay somewhere else.. cops would have let her and dss would have been called but later on...
cops do well child checks not home living checks and unless brad or carey reported a crime or physical immediate danger then the cops would have not gone into the home... well child check would have been followed upby dss ... say if carey called and said omg my niece is in danger her mother is a crackhead and is acting irrational etc they could have gone to the home and met wit both child and mom on front porch... there was no current crime being commited to where the cops would have been even granted access to the inside of the home...

Exactly.. brad made No calls no well checks...
wow jerz i think this is the first time you and i have disagreed on something...
i mis worded that what it should have said was even if there was a well child cop call... what would the crime or immediate danger have been to report?
this is why i stopped posting on this thread (albeit for a day) i didn't want to argue with posters on a mute point
i would never try to dictate to a poster what they should discuss but unless we are sleuthing mm and ad and possible underground connections they had to porn sex rings etc then this is a dead issue for me whether you guys think he could  have prevented this or not doesn't really matter now and i do not want to bash a loving father who has just lost his daughter in a heinous way... back to the rafters i go...
love you monkeys 

To agree to disagree. That's how we learn...
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