Lively Case Discussion #563 12/20 - 12/21/2006-DO NOT USE

[BTgirl]

Thanks, Klaas. That looks very interesting.

[Tylergal]

Makes me wonder whether whoever made that no left turn decision has OCD.  

How is your mom?

Incidentally, many companies have been trying to get their employees to make no left turns since the mid 1990s when our administration at the time felt it was safer to drive with no left turns.  I guess that was not someone from New Orleans who made that decision.  

[Tylergal]

I agree with the comments. As easy as it can be to throw Paulus in from the beginning, I think there is more hard evidence that Paulus entered the murder crime scene after "something went bad". Whether Natalee was "allowed" to die after being harmed, or was already dead, I don't know. I do think that whatever happened, Joran was scared enough to go to Daddy. And I fully believe that from that point, Paulus did all he could to protect Joran.

I think Paulus entered before she was "harmed."  I think he "picked" Natalee for his own.

Hello, Anita.  Those see-through blouses are to no avail.  The old man is a pervert.

I don't think we are necessarily in disagreement, Tyler. Paulus could have "picked" Natalee and at some point left her to the boys, where something "went wrong". I'm just trying to line up DKs chastisement of Joran with things.

It's possible that Joran took Natalee for Paulus, but Deepak seems to think that Joran did something to get his father in trouble, whereas Joran claims the Kalpoes got his dad arrested.  Which makes me think that Deepak wasn't there when something bad happened OR Paulus wasn't involved until later.  

A.  Joran could have been "pimping" for Paulus.  Many believe this; I've never been convinced, but don't deny the possibility.  
B.  We could get Freudian and say that Joran decided he wanted Natalee when he saw Paulus talking with her.  
C.  Another theory I've suggested is that Joran had a run-in with some of the MB boys, GVC had a run-in with some of the MB boys (involving Natalee) and Joran wanted to show them arrogant Americans a thing or two and did it with GHB and Natalee.  A sociopath in particular might respond that way, me thinks.  
D.  Another "trigger" could be Joran seeing his old flame with another guy and transferring his hurt and anger to Natalee.  


I don't know how long it would take for these three guys to realize that someone wasn't breathing anymore.   I wonder if they've ever learned CPR.    Perhaps the Dutch are saying the boys panicked when Natalee remained unconscious because they plan to say it was an accidental death and their only crime was panicking and disposing of the body.    (If this is true, I imagine monkeys declaring war.  The word Missile comes to my mind.)  I not only think Natalee was raped by these 3, but I think that Joran hit her.  That plus alcohol plus date-rape drug = Disappeared.  Whatever happened, I hope that the GHB or whatever she was given left her mostly unconscious.   No one should be subjected to such an act and no one should get away with doing such a thing.

Or another girl could have seen Joran with a girl . . . don't ask me why I think this, but it has entered my mind. . . especially one who lived near the Marriott and saw the sporter the day in question.

[LilPuma]

Thanks, LilPuma. I sure hope you're right.  

I do remember someone having to track a UPS package.  The good news is they managed to figure out exactly where it was.  The bad news was that it was left in another state and it took a few days to get it to the right address.

[Anna]

21 December:
The Dana Pretzer Show - Thursday, December 21st, 2006 - 9 PM - Guest Mike McIntyre (9:00 pm)

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/radio/

Mike McIntyre's website:

http://www.mikeoncrime.com/news/NPNewsPlus.asp

Thank you, Klaass.  Sounds like Dana has another good one lined up for us. Hope to have time to check out the information before the program.

.

[Dana]

21 December:
The Dana Pretzer Show - Thursday, December 21st, 2006 - 9 PM - Guest Mike McIntyre (9:00 pm)

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/radio/

Mike McIntyre's website:

http://www.mikeoncrime.com/news/NPNewsPlus.asp

Thank you, Klaass.  Sounds like Dana has another good one lined up for us. Hope to have time to check out the information before the program.

.

I hope you all can tune in and call in. Yes Mike has a great show.

[Altruist]

How long has it been "missing"?  They can track by computer the last place it was handled, and who's truck or whatever it was last on.  You said they don't have hope in finding it.  Why not?  And if not, how quickly can the claim be filed.  Whomever shipped it has to file the claim, I am pretty sure.  Not the receipient.

Lenovo shipped two boxes - the computer and the case. The case was delivered, then UPS tried to tell us that's all that was shipped. Lenovo is saying the computer was shipped with the case. Lenovo says they will keep searching for 7 more days, then give us credit and re-ship the computer if it isn't found. If someone at UPS took it, then they'll end up with a free computer I guess.

Don't know if this will help but I had a similiar experience with FedEx & my box had lodged itself behind a box inside the truck, which is why the driver missed it when he pulled my 1st box.  When they tracked it they found the box on the truck.  Same time of year also.  Good luck.

[Anna]

Is anyone else having this irresistible urge to camp out on the sofa and watch old CSI Miami re-runs on A&E instead of wrapping the packages?  

No?  Me neither.   Just wondering.

[justinsmama]

Monkeys~ Mom remains in critical condition. She now has an infection on top of the difficulty with her blood pressure. She was moaning this morning and with it at all. Very hard to see her this way. They gave her a bed that wriggles under her (I used to know the name for that type of bed...), and she seems more peaceful now.

[Tylergal]

BT, I had a Christmas package a few years ago, I think in 1999, that was missing package #2.  It was similar to what you describe.  We did get it eventually.  Someone had copied the zip code onto both packages, but transposed the one on package #2 which was to a different city entirely, but it was finally tracked down and was fine.  I do hope you will get yours very soon.  

Just be optimistic!!!!!  It's Christmas and I know how disappointing it is, but all will be well that ends well.  Hug the little BT and give DH mistletoe kisses and all will be well in BT'ville.

[Leslie]

Anna:  An idea for you - gift bags from the dollar store!  Just pop the gift in and presto - you are done (except for writing the name on the card). It is like giving someone 2 gifts!

[Tylergal]

Anna:  An idea for you - gift bags from the dollar store!  Just pop the gift in and presto - you are done (except for writing the name on the card). It is like giving someone 2 gifts!

Also very cute gift boxes at Big Lots.  I bought lots.  They are soooo cute and they are certainly reusable.  Don't write names on these.  You will want to preserve for posterity, but do tie a piece of yarn around them and pop the name on that.

[Tylergal]

Monkeys~ Mom remains in critical condition. She now has an infection on top of the difficulty with her blood pressure. She was moaning this morning and with it at all. Very hard to see her this way. They gave her a bed that wriggles under her (I used to know the name for that type of bed...), and she seems more peaceful now.

You will be in my thoughts and prayers, and of course, your mom.  I hope this has a wonderful outcome.

[Anna]

Anna:  An idea for you - gift bags from the dollar store!  Just pop the gift in and presto - you are done (except for writing the name on the card). It is like giving someone 2 gifts!

And I just happen to have several of those, good thing.  Just can't get motivated and going.  Must be the lack of early morning coffee.

More O/T

In my family there is this silly thing we do.  Someone will yell, Hey, it's SNOWING!  Then we will all run to the windows to see even though like today it is sixty degrees!

Every year someone will do that at least twice and at least twice we will all run to see the snow.

I guess you could say We Believe!!

[tcumom]

Justins ~ I am thinking and praying for you and your entire family......it is heartbreaking to see a parent in such a fragile condition.  Many hugs, tcu

[LilPuma]

I hope you all can tune in and call in. Yes Mike has a great show.

I went to Mike's website.  
http://www.mikeoncrime.com/news/NPNewsPlus.asp

I copied this from his site about his new book.  There are more excerpts from the book on the site.  Sounds really really interesting.  

TO THE GRAVE is selling fast and recently became a national bestseller!

Mike spent the past year working on TO THE GRAVE, which chronicles the mysterious April 2002 disappearance of Manitoba teen Erin Chorney, her family's desperate search for answers and the Hollywood-style police operation which unearthed a shocking truth two years later.

Here is a sampling of excerpts from the book, which is based entirely on true events.

***

IT was a missing person mystery destined for the cold case files.

Brandon resident Erin Chorney, 18, vanished without a trace in April 2002, leaving behind a broken-hearted family, a stunned community and many troubling questions.

There were whispers and rumours about what could have happened to the striking young woman. And while police had plenty of suspicions, there was no hard evidence.

Then along came the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, armed with a strong desire for justice and an innovative plan straight out of a Hollywood screenplay.

[Dana]

I hope you all can tune in and call in. Yes Mike has a great show.

I went to Mike's website.  
http://www.mikeoncrime.com/news/NPNewsPlus.asp

I copied this from his site about his new book.  There are more excerpts from the book on the site.  Sounds really really interesting.  

TO THE GRAVE is selling fast and recently became a national bestseller!

Mike spent the past year working on TO THE GRAVE, which chronicles the mysterious April 2002 disappearance of Manitoba teen Erin Chorney, her family's desperate search for answers and the Hollywood-style police operation which unearthed a shocking truth two years later.

Here is a sampling of excerpts from the book, which is based entirely on true events.

***

IT was a missing person mystery destined for the cold case files.

Brandon resident Erin Chorney, 18, vanished without a trace in April 2002, leaving behind a broken-hearted family, a stunned community and many troubling questions.

There were whispers and rumours about what could have happened to the striking young woman. And while police had plenty of suspicions, there was no hard evidence.

Then along came the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, armed with a strong desire for justice and an innovative plan straight out of a Hollywood screenplay.

there is a link to buy it on the front page, its a great book at a good price

[MuffyBee]

justinsmama-I will keep you and your mother in my thoughts and prayers.  It's good she has some relief with the change-out of the beds.  Are you staying there at the hosptial with her or somewhere nearby?  Please take time to care for yourself and rest when you are able.

[LilPuma]

Monkeys~ Mom remains in critical condition. She now has an infection on top of the difficulty with her blood pressure. She was moaning this morning and with it at all. Very hard to see her this way. They gave her a bed that wriggles under her (I used to know the name for that type of bed...), and she seems more peaceful now.

I'm sorry to hear that, Justinsmama.  I'll keep praying for her and for you.

[justinsmama]

Tyler~ I hope it has a wonderful outcome, too. A few years back, my uncle was in really bad shape. My cousin and I thought for sure that he would die. He pulled through, though. I think that he is too grouchy to die.