Lively Case Discussion #563 12/20 - 12/21/2006-DO NOT USE

[Kimmy53]

Good Morning Monkeys!

Shout out to Muffy!!!  Hiya!  I saw your post to say Hi but was gone already!  How ya been?

Hi Kimmy I was doing some catch up reading.  Are you ready for the holidays?

Oh - almost.  I am real close... Just a small amount of shopping... For my DH's grandpa - who is 91.  What do ya get for a 91 yr old??? I will think of something...

I hope all is well with you.

[MuffyBee]

Something for a 91 year old?  Hm..  One of those flashlights that you can hand crank for a few minutes to power it up for hours?  Never needs batteries...

Or something that reminds of good times past

[Tylergal]

Frijole, we always give the nursing home residents lotions, soaps (thare not so drying, i.e, Dove) and some books with very large print.  Some of them still enjoy reading but have difficulty seeing. They can all use hand lotions (but no fragrance as some have asthma) and their own personal Dove soaps for bathing as their skin tends to be quite dry and institutional soap is horribly drying.

[Tylergal]

Kimmy, I meant that for you, not Frijole.  I need a cup of coffee.  I had Frijole's nieces and nephews on my brain and was answering your question about DH's grandfather.  OK, off to get coffee.  Had a long trip in a short time.  Have a nice day.

[blah]

Carnut,
look I'm with you on the fact that I doubt the 8.5 minute call was a video transmission, but i'm not going to just take a stance and so there aint no way.  It is possible.

You do not know what you are talking about when it come to transfer rates.  I know it and you know it, you may be able to fool a few of the less technical people around here, but not me.  I create data servers and toss data back and forth all the time.  I pass data back and forth to programs I have created in several different languages including Labview, C++ .NET, Statemate, Matlab/Simulink/Stateflow, CANoe, Java, GL Studio and on many different types of hardware.  I create my own protocals, use TCP/IP, Datasocket, UDP, Bluetooth, and many others.  I know how to define, assemble and disassemble data packets, I know how to stream data.  I know several different strategies for recreating dropped packets and fragmented packets.  I understand data compression and sometimes use my own compression techniques.  I also understand data encryption technologies and apply them to my work when needed. I can stream data to different devices as well, including using cellular technology to transfer data to and from vehicles in the field.  I create very sophisticated computer simulations for a living and I am telling you that you are out of your league with me. If you want to start another thread to discuss this topic, I will gladly give you an education but please, stop this sillyness in this thread.  It is distracting to the people who are trying to prove/disprove their video theory.

Yep, it's possible to land men on the moon, but ain't real feasible.

OK. in your league, how much of a video is gonna be transmitted over a cell phone in 8 1/2 mins?

Here's a 2.03 min video on my site that is 5.46meg in MPEG.

http://carnut.org/show/96/star/star001.mpg

Here's my page with a few more videos along with associated sizes.

http://carnut.com/photo/video.html

If you can beat these compressions, let me know I have a ton of videos I would like to host on my site, but so far they take up too much band width for me.

I just downloaded your 1st video to my desktop in less than 1 second, average transfer rate was 5.2 Mbps which is roughly 7 times faster than the cell technology at the time.  The file size on disk is 5.21 megabytes and playback time is 2 minutes and 2 seconds.  So to keep it simple, lets say the technology back then was 10 times slower instead of 7 times slower.  It would have taken me 10 seconds to download a 2 minutes video, thats about 12 minutes of video per minute or 96 minutes of video in 8 minutes, in the same framerate and resolution as the one on your website.

[San]

I know there has been a lot of discussion regarding how they might have transferred a video.  I'm convinced there is a video of what happened and Freddy was involved.  How they transferred the video I don't know but there is definitely a video.  Why are they delivering the "camera" to Freddy. I think Deepak was the one who transferred the video via his computer.  Is it possible that Joran was sent the video also and was trying to view it from his computer.  These computer records were tampered with by the ALE.  Just like the cell phone records they were also tampered with.  JMO.

Why the hell would Deepak bring John Charles Croes into the picture for an alibi.  Is this person that stupid that he would tell Deepak sure you can use me for your alibi .  The next time Deepak tried to use someone as his alibi was a girl he knew and that girl wanted no involvement and she even went to the police or the FBI to tell them.

FROM SATISH'S 6/24/05 STATEMENT:

The second time was when Joran, my brother and I took the camera to Freddy’s house. We delivered the camera to Freddy, and afterwards all four of us ate Chinese in the area of Freddy’s house. Freddy also lives in Montanja. I do not remember his house number. We had bought food and we then we went to Joran’s apartment afterwards. According to me Freddy was informed then already about the missing girl. We may have spoken some about the missing girl, it is possible but I don’t remember.

[Kimmy53]

Morning, Kimmy, thank you for the kind wishes.  As noted above, we had a very nice funeral, something unusual for a funeral, but it was a fun celebration of his life.  I have never attended a funeral where there were so many happy memories and so much laughing during the ceremony.

MuffyBee, is your dear hubby going to be home with you for Christmas?  I hope you are enjoying your new home and getting it all ready for his arrival.

Morning, Frijole, no not ready for the holidays but I never get everything done that I intended to do and here I am with 2-3 lost days secondary to an untimely death.  C'est la vie.  I never get it all done but it comes and goes regardless.  I do have all the grandchildren gifts and that is the big thing.

Tyler - I truly believe a funeral should be a celebration of life.  Although it is a sad occasion, It is great that the family was able to celebrate him and they will carry the memories with them always.

I always intend on starting getting ready for the holidays early - I say it every year.  I agree with you - if the kids are taken care of, well, every thing else is secondary.

[Kimmy53]

Tyler -     !!  It's all good!  This time of year I feel like my brain is scrambled beyond saving.  I went to my son's band concert the other night, after a CRAZY day at work, and 2 almost sick kids, well anyhow, I saw 2 different sets of his friends parents (whom I have known since Kindergarten) and for the life of me I couldn't call their names.  I faked my way through - ya know, talking fast and asking questions etc.   I will have a week off after Christmas, so maybe I can find my brain during that time.

Muffy - the flashlight is a good idea, a man can never have too many flashlights.  I knew he already has too many pairs of slippers though! lol.

[blah]

by the way in that video, what are all those people doing out in the snow with those beautiful cars?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[Leslie]

I don't think there was any porn video cell phone transmission that night.
Who would be shooting the video if Joran was alone in his apt. with Natalee and the Kalpoe's were at their house?  It makes more sense that J2K and Natalee were at the VDS cabana with Freddy's camera (and maybe Freddy) and one of the Kalpoe brothers manned the camera while Joran (and maybe Freddy) participated.  Since, Deepak was the computer genius of the bunch, he would have been the one to take the video tape home to transfer on to his computer (with or without Freddy's camera).  Deepak was on the chatline with JC Croes at 3:30 Monday morning and he admitted that he said to Croes that "the girl put her hands down my pants".  A statement like that doesn't pop up out of nowhere.  It had only been 3 hours since he had arrived at C&C's and saw Natalee for the first time and that 3 hour period must have been the subject of the chat.  Maybe, Deepak had the TV on so he could watch the tape on a bigger screen.  Maybe Deepak sent the video back to Joran, the Top Pimp, in the early morning hours.  
Where is the statement from John Charles Croes?

[blah]

I don't think there was any porn video cell phone transmission that night.
Who would be shooting the video if Joran was alone in his apt. with Natalee and the Kalpoe's were at their house?  It makes more sense that J2K and Natalee were at the VDS cabana with Freddy's camera (and maybe Freddy) and one of the Kalpoe brothers manned the camera while Joran (and maybe Freddy) participated.  Since, Deepak was the computer genius of the bunch, he would have been the one to take the video tape home to transfer on to his computer (with or without Freddy's camera).  Deepak was on the chatline with JC Croes at 3:30 Monday morning and he admitted that he said to Croes that "the girl put her hands down my pants".  A statement like that doesn't pop up out of nowhere.  It had only been 3 hours since he had arrived at C&C's and saw Natalee for the first time and that 3 hour period must have been the subject of the chat.  Maybe, Deepak had the TV on so he could watch the tape on a bigger screen.  Maybe Deepak sent the video back to Joran, the Top Pimp, in the early morning hours.  
Where is the statement from John Charles Croes?

I tend to agree with you, I dont think there was a video that night either.  But nothing would surprise me from Aruba and I am not going to just dismiss the possibility.  These guys did surround themselves with the stuff.

[Carnut]

your question doesnt quite make sense ", how much of a video is gonna be transmitted over a cell phone in 8 1/2 mins?"  But what I think you are trying to ask is, in 8.5 minutes, how long of a video (as in playback time) can be transferred on a cell phone.  The answer really depends on the resolution of the video, the compression and the framerate.  Sure, if you are using MPEG4 format and have an high resolution of 1600x1024 and are shooting for a framerate of over 60 frames per second, you are not going to get a very long video in 8.5 minutes.  I do not know the resolution, data format and recording framerate of most cell phones but I I can safley say that 8.5 minutes can easily transfer a 8.5 minute video at an average upload speed of 800kbs - technology that was available at the time.  Do we even know if this was a cell phone or a cellular card for a laptop, if it was a card in a laptop, the transfer rate could be even higher.

Ok, what kind of cell transmission speed can you get 800kbps from?

In my world the best you can get up to in cell is CDMA3 at up to 385kbps, even with a laptop the cell card transmits at the same speed and standard CDMA is only 14.4kbps.

I'm not talking about 802.11 1/2 Mbps or 802.11g 25/54 Mbps WiFi speeds.

The example I provided was a very low quality 2min video that has a file size of 5.46 MB in MPEG compression.

So how many MB's could be transmitted over a up to 14.4kbps in a standard CDMA cell phone transmission? And how often have you had a perfect cell connection?

Sure a lot of people on here getting their MBps and Mbps mixed up along with their cell and WiFi connections.

[Leslie]

Blah:  I said that I do not think there was a cell phone porn video made but it is highly likely that Freddy's camera was used that night to make a regular video.  If we knew anything more about this JC Croes -things might start to make sense.  What does he do for a living?  Does he have a criminal record?  Is he related to someone with influence that could keep his name out of the news?  
Whether there was a video made that night or not; JC Croes got the first version of events from Deepak before that information had to be hushed up.  Deepak wasn't messing up any investigation, at the point.

[Carnut]

I just downloaded your 1st video to my desktop in less than 1 second, average transfer rate was 5.2 Mbps which is roughly 7 times faster than the cell technology at the time.  The file size on disk is 5.21 megabytes and playback time is 2 minutes and 2 seconds.  So to keep it simple, lets say the technology back then was 10 times slower instead of 7 times slower.  It would have taken me 10 seconds to download a 2 minutes video, thats about 12 minutes of video per minute or 96 minutes of video in 8 minutes, in the same framerate and resolution as the one on your website.

Ahah, that's it, in your world cell transmission speed is a heck of a lot faster than cell transmission speed in my world.

[blah]

I just downloaded your 1st video to my desktop in less than 1 second, average transfer rate was 5.2 Mbps which is roughly 7 times faster than the cell technology at the time.  The file size on disk is 5.21 megabytes and playback time is 2 minutes and 2 seconds.  So to keep it simple, lets say the technology back then was 10 times slower instead of 7 times slower.  It would have taken me 10 seconds to download a 2 minutes video, thats about 12 minutes of video per minute or 96 minutes of video in 8 minutes, in the same framerate and resolution as the one on your website.

Ahah, that's it, in your world cell transmission speed is a heck of a lot faster than cell transmission speed in my world.

In my example I used a data rate that was 2 years older than the technology that was available at the time in order to give you the benefit of the doubt.  In your world, you claimed 385kbps or something very close to that.  This still translates to over a 30 minutes video.  So please stop spouting off that it is not possible.  I think what you are having a hard time with is the difference between uploading/downloading data and video streaming, which obviously is a lot slower do to the encoding/decoding on the fly.

I can understand that you have a very hard time admitting that you are wrong but like I said earlier, at least put the shovel down and quit digging.  I am finished with this silly conversation.

[MuffyBee]

Is this thing about cell phones and transmissions a pcing contest

[LilPuma]

FROM SATISH'S 6/24/05 STATEMENT:

The second time was when Joran, my brother and I took the camera to Freddy’s house. We delivered the camera to Freddy, and afterwards all four of us ate Chinese in the area of Freddy’s house. Freddy also lives in Montanja. I do not remember his house number. We had bought food and we then we went to Joran’s apartment afterwards. According to me Freddy was informed then already about the missing girl. We may have spoken some about the missing girl, it is possible but I don’t remember.

He says THE camera and again later THE camera.  Not we were going to Freddy's to return a camera.....  It sounds as if this camera was mentioned in the Q&A but didn't make it into the statement.  Maybe it's the translation.    I'm just saying that this is worded in a way that makes it sound like the topic has come up before and the officers know more about a camera than is explained in the signed statement.  

Aside from the fact that the cell phone video debate has been going on since page 30 something in the last thread and getting nowhere, I'd like to suggest that it doesn't make a lot of sense to think a film was sent via cell phones that evening.  When would this have occurred?  First, they're with Natalee, they panic because she stays unconscious, the gardener sees them around 2:30 or 3:00 (I've heard both times; don't know which it is), Deepak or Satish or both are home to get into chat with John CC around 3:00.  In the overall scheme of the 2 or 3 hours after they left C&C's, when would this occur?  If there was a video taken, if they did panic, did they simply send this video via cell phone while trying to figure out what to do with Natalee?  I can see Deepak or Satish sending a video to JCC not knowing that Natalee didn't wake up, but not after they knew she didn't wake up.  It seems the time frame of the call was after "something bad happened."  This debate started because Deepak says he wasn't chatting with JCC the whole time, he was watching TV, but he knows that JCC was online the whole time.  This sounds like something was being downloaded.  Then again, Deepak says it was around 2:35 until around 3:15 or 3:30 doesn't he?  Why would it take half an hour to an hour to do this?  Based on what we know, it's not adding up.  

Good Morning Monkeys.  Have to drive someone to Best Buy so they don't have to find a parking space, which would require putting a clip in the Glock.  I'll hover and circle while they run in.  Could be hours or days, but I'll be back.  

[MuffyBee]

Good morning LilPuma You gotta go to Best Buy?  Glad you only have to circle the lot.  I am headed to Lowe's here in a minute (never work on plumbing over the holidays) and I have to go it alone-no one to cover my back.

[LilPuma]

Before heading out into the big city jungle, I'll add that I think they panicked and Satish went home, went into chat with JCC to try to make it look like Deepak was home, but didn't chat so as not to give away the fact that he wasn't Deepak.  Makes more sense to me.  If a video was taken, it was probably in Freddy's camera and may never have been downloaded because "something bad happened".  

Klaas, the next person that uses the phrase 56K or mpeg should be sent to the naughty room.

[LilPuma]

Good morning LilPuma You gotta go to Best Buy?  Glad you only have to circle the lot.  I am headed to Lowe's here in a minute (never work on plumbing over the holidays) and I have to go it alone-no one to cover my back.

Wear kevlar.    Stay calm and alert.  Watch out for 2x4's!