Lively Case Discussion #563 12/20 - 12/21/2006-DO NOT USE

[MuffyBee]

Good morning LilPuma You gotta go to Best Buy?  Glad you only have to circle the lot.  I am headed to Lowe's here in a minute (never work on plumbing over the holidays) and I have to go it alone-no one to cover my back.

Wear kevlar.    Stay calm and alert.  Watch out for 2x4's!

Lil Puma-is that watch out for 2 x 4's or 4 x 4's?  I'm driving a Scion XB, which means I watch out for anything that moves

Will check back later.  I am always hopeful for some kind of news that there will be justice for Natalee.

[LilPuma]

Good morning LilPuma You gotta go to Best Buy?  Glad you only have to circle the lot.  I am headed to Lowe's here in a minute (never work on plumbing over the holidays) and I have to go it alone-no one to cover my back.

Wear kevlar.    Stay calm and alert.  Watch out for 2x4's!

Lil Puma-is that watch out for 2 x 4's or 4 x 4's?  I'm driving a Scion XB, which means I watch out for anything that moves

Will check back later.  I am always hopeful for some kind of news that there will be justice for Natalee.

  I was thinking of wood, but those 4 x 4's are also treacherous.  

[nonesuche]

blah I could kiss you !!!!!!!!!!!!

It has been a ridiculous endless debate and I don't think many of our posters much look much at Youtube or they would see the copious amounts of grainy cell phone video that's uploaded daily. Do any of you remember the London train bombing? Some of the only video available was from cell phones as well.

Each to their own but there is benefit in living with tech savvy teens who use their cell phones for everything but washing their clothes   trust me, MOST are so savvy it's frightening. Deepak was surely savvy for he worked at and maintained that Internet Cafe too. Every techie in the area likely made contact with him there as well. the data also didn't have to travel far, Aruba isn't nearly as large in distance as the area I covered last night with my transmission to son.

I think it's quite likely snippets of what happened that night at the very least ended up on cell phone video, and until proven otherwise, I am entitled to keep an open mind.

Moving on, tyler it's good to see you back. BIG HUG !!!!!!!!!

Morning Kimmy and Leslie, LilPuma and MuffyBee, and anyone else I have missed !!

[Carnut]

In my example I used a data rate that was 2 years older than the technology that was available at the time in order to give you the benefit of the doubt.  In your world, you claimed 385kbps or something very close to that.  This still translates to over a 30 minutes video.  So please stop spouting off that it is not possible.  I think what you are having a hard time with is the difference between uploading/downloading data and video streaming, which obviously is a lot slower do to the encoding/decoding on the fly.

I can understand that you have a very hard time admitting that you are wrong but like I said earlier, at least put the shovel down and quit digging.  I am finished with this silly conversation.

384kbps is the fastest possible with the latest greatest standard CDMA3,
not 2 yr old technology.

2yr old technology is 14.4kbps CDMA.

lessee if I can figure this out since apparently I ain't the brightest bulb around.

My little 2 min video was 5MB in size, so a rough guess at an 8 min video might be 4x5MB or 20MB in size.

1 Byte = 8 Bits.

20MB = 160 Mbits

160 Mbits = 160000 Kbits

Year ago CDMA cell transmission would be 14.4kbps. round up to 15kbps.

160000/15 = 10667seconds.

10667/60 = 177.78 minutes

177.78/60 = 2.96 hours.


Ok, current state of the art hi speed CDMA 3 at 384kbps.

160000/384 = 416.67 seconds

416.67/60 = 6.94 minutes.

Now it just might be possible at max rate current CDMA 3 standards,
but I very much doubt the 3 amigos had a CDMA 3 cell phone 2 years ago or that the transmission would have been perfect with no dropouts.

I still stand firm that any cell phone transmission of a porn video was totally unfeasible at that time.

Now again, if you are talking streaming then the porn videoing must have been in progress at the time of the call on record.

Otherwise 20MB of storage would have to have been in the phone for it to store the video to transmit at the call time on record.

As you can see from my example video any porn video that size wouldn't have been all that desirable or useful.

[the big hammer]

Tech Talk

Well, speaking for myself:

I have found the tech talk to be highly informative and immensely useful.

Thank you blah, carnut and all the others who have contributed.

The question of "video or not" is an interesting one.  And there are porponents of the videoed crime and others who disagree, and still others who are neutral.  As blah suggested in an earlier post, it would be likely wrong to ignore the overwhelming references to filmic/visual pornography which animates the environments and lifestyles of the main suspects and their pimp friends.  Their lives literally drip with it: there's porn playing on 2 dvd screens in the Bailey Anne sequence, there's porn playing in the car when Natalee is in it per deepak's statement, there's the pornographic video which caused Freddie's arrest and questioning, there's the pda in Holland as gift from Paulus to joran loaded w/ porn and porn played for the NE reporter by joran, and among the very first news reports about the case immediately after Natalee went missing by Geraldo Rivera when he reported that 3 were involved made sex videos, and on, and on, and on.

The suspects are, I'd guess, far younger than the majority of the posters here.  We've all read the reports how technology animates the lives of young people today, and the pimps are no different in this regard.

I thought I'd reprise an excerpt from a post by our old friend Dutchlady.  She provided an intersting perspective on whether there was video or not:

"...The tools if we look at cognitive states in the tickle sites are camera, internet, car, and Van Der Sloot home. The issue reminds me of the death of Princess Diana where the desired photographs of her death in the car were fed to media brokered over the internet. In my mind has always been did someone make a headline that morning, but that is sidetracking. The point is that in making pictures for whatever reason this does not stop in persons traits as a signature. I think Deepak is the camera man on the tickle sites and is the uploader of images because of the technology he has and had at his disposal. That is why in statements as 'through away' words he has used past tense and the term 'goodie two shoes'. I would in this case be looking for shoes as a word of two and shoes. It strikes a cord and in coming into visual sensory memory banks he has used a phrase to evade saying the words he does not want to say.

If there is a disc of images it will most likely have been posted as cd. But as Deepak was online I am surmising the importance was the processing of digital camera images as it does not make sense in what is past behaviour. Now in addictive traits that are AOD's as exhibited consider also the 'salient wanting' of entrapment. In having a subserviant, compliant object that is human the mind engages on control. We all know of the experiment where senior officers were made both jailer and imprisoned. In less than five minutes the play acting turned sinister and even mild none 'wanting' brains fed on neurochemical charges and sparked off a frenzy in the others in that control group.

In rounding up, the sex with a prone person captured with no method of escape and the actions on that person are a time warp and have to be captured to relive the experience. If in a real scenario this behaviour had been part of sensation seeking in AOD and other addictive performances then the group who viewed what went on would seek to record this as a premeditated act of 'high jinks' in contrast to criminal acts. This is status empowerment same as graffiti is unlawful in the lower classes but not in public school vandalism as same crime. One is covered by money and power, the other is generalization of inner city poor and societal norms.

I hope this gives some real examples of what is really factual in behaviours that person exhibit as themselves as 'norms'. I therefore think the fbi should look in the safety boxes of persons of interest for such hardcopies just in case.  

.

[BTgirl]

Carnut and Blah,

I have no idea what either one of you is talking about, and trying to read it is giving me a worse headache than Shango gives Carnut.  

I think starting a thread for everyone to post their techie arguments in is a great idea. Maybe if Metro is ever not in the air he can add his 2 cents' worth also.

Personally, I agree that if they were planning to make a video, they wouldn't plan to do it with a cellphone. They would want better quality if it were something they wanted to make money from. I'm not saying there wasn't a video - just that a planned one would probably have been filmed differently. My best guess is that the 8.5 minute cell phone call was probably someone saying the equivalent of "Oh crap - she's not breathing - what do we do now?"

[Carnut]

Carnut and Blah,

I have no idea what either one of you is talking about, and trying to read it is giving me a worse headache than Shango gives Carnut.  

I think starting a thread for everyone to post their techie arguments in is a great idea. Maybe if Metro is ever not in the air he can add his 2 cents' worth also.

Personally, I agree that if they were planning to make a video, they wouldn't plan to do it with a cellphone. They would want better quality if it were something they wanted to make money from. I'm not saying there wasn't a video - just that a planned one would probably have been filmed differently. My best guess is that the 8.5 minute cell phone call was probably someone saying the equivalent of "Oh crap - she's not breathing - what do we do now?"

OK, I'm done, not much else I can do if no one wants to open their eyes and minds.

[BTgirl]

Carnut and Blah,

I have no idea what either one of you is talking about, and trying to read it is giving me a worse headache than Shango gives Carnut.  

I think starting a thread for everyone to post their techie arguments in is a great idea. Maybe if Metro is ever not in the air he can add his 2 cents' worth also.

Personally, I agree that if they were planning to make a video, they wouldn't plan to do it with a cellphone. They would want better quality if it were something they wanted to make money from. I'm not saying there wasn't a video - just that a planned one would probably have been filmed differently. My best guess is that the 8.5 minute cell phone call was probably someone saying the equivalent of "Oh crap - she's not breathing - what do we do now?"

OK, I'm done, not much else I can do if no one wants to open their eyes and minds.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be discussed. Just saying a techie thread might be a good idea. That way, all the techie info could be gathered in one place for those who understand such things to read and evaluate. Yeah?

[Kimmy53]

Good Morning Nonesuche!!

I am trying to work my fanny off (Quite a task I must add) so I can take next week off.  I am starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel - either that or I am about to pass out!  

[Lala'sMom]

Carnut,
look I'm with you on the fact that I doubt the 8.5 minute call was a video transmission, but i'm not going to just take a stance and so there aint no way.  It is possible.

You do not know what you are talking about when it come to transfer rates.  I know it and you know it, you may be able to fool a few of the less technical people around here, but not me.  I create data servers and toss data back and forth all the time.  I pass data back and forth to programs I have created in several different languages including Labview, C++ .NET, Statemate, Matlab/Simulink/Stateflow, CANoe, Java, GL Studio and on many different types of hardware.  I create my own protocals, use TCP/IP, Datasocket, UDP, Bluetooth, and many others.  I know how to define, assemble and disassemble data packets, I know how to stream data.  I know several different strategies for recreating dropped packets and fragmented packets.  I understand data compression and sometimes use my own compression techniques.  I also understand data encryption technologies and apply them to my work when needed. I can stream data to different devices as well, including using cellular technology to transfer data to and from vehicles in the field.  I create very sophisticated computer simulations for a living and I am telling you that you are out of your league with me. If you want to start another thread to discuss this topic, I will gladly give you an education but please, stop this sillyness in this thread.  It is distracting to the people who are trying to prove/disprove their video theory.

Yep, it's possible to land men on the moon, but ain't real feasible.

OK. in your league, how much of a video is gonna be transmitted over a cell phone in 8 1/2 mins?

Here's a 2.03 min video on my site that is 5.46meg in MPEG.

http://carnut.org/show/96/star/star001.mpg

Here's my page with a few more videos along with associated sizes.

http://carnut.com/photo/video.html

If you can beat these compressions, let me know I have a ton of videos I would like to host on my site, but so far they take up too much band width for me.

What does that mean?  Tell me you, of all people, are not one of those "we didn't really land on the moon" conspiracy theorists.  And I thought I had heard everything.

Coffee anyone?

[BTgirl]

Hi Kimmy!

Lala's - I think I ran Carnut away.  

[Anna]

I don't believe one person here said the 8.5 minute cell phone transmission just HAD to be a video if one even existed.  Changing that to be the issue from if it is possible just doesn't cut it.

I am copying exactly what comes up on my screen as far as my own connection speed is concerned and am NOT getting anything mixed up.

As far as credibility of the forum goes, I don't think it is helpful to insist what we all see every day is not possible.  I think I will believe my lying eyes on this one, thanks anyway.

KBM said the Sloots were wireless, something not even available to me in my area so I dare say Aruba is far ahead in the wireless areana and have read of several companies opening offices there for this sort of technology.

My coffee maker died this morning so I have already had to be out in the thick of things, not the best way to start the day for me.

Yes, by all means start a thread if any care to continue the discussion but I know what I see and sure don't need anybody to tell me it can't be done.  That's what I think and that's what I know.

[Nut44x4]

Good morning LilPuma You gotta go to Best Buy?  Glad you only have to circle the lot.  I am headed to Lowe's here in a minute (never work on plumbing over the holidays) and I have to go it alone-no one to cover my back.

Wear kevlar.    Stay calm and alert.  Watch out for 2x4's!

Lil Puma-is that watch out for 2 x 4's or 4 x 4's?  I'm driving a Scion XB, which means I watch out for anything that moves

Will check back later.  I am always hopeful for some kind of news that there will be justice for Natalee.

  I was thinking of wood, but those 4 x 4's are also treacherous.  

Did someone mention 4x4's??    
I am not a big poster on here, but I do read a lot and lurk, I hope for answers and wish the family peace with answers. Justice 4 Natalee. Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays to all in the cage. It is time to close this case!! May 2007 provide the answers we all need 4 that!

[Lala'sMom]

Now, this Shangohead is going to weigh in on the cell transmission.  I know absolutely nothing about techie stuff, just ask Nonesy, she will tell you I am a complete moron on those things, but I won't discount the possibility that it can be done.  My own daughter sends me things all the time with her phone.  The only thing is that she is transmitting from her phone to my computer.  Would that  make any difference?  I have seen one of her friends send her a short video from their camera, the digital kind that makes a video as well as a single photo, to her phone before.  I saw that with my own eyes and was impressed with the quality.  

I tend to think along the lines that the porn video, should there be one in existance, would have been transmitted from Freddy's video equipment first to a computer.  I think you would run the risk of losing the call if you relied on a cell phone.  I know I have sent photos to people from mine and right in the middle of doing so, my cell phone lost the call.  My bet, if there was a video, would be that Freddy was more involved in the transmission of it from his camera than a cell phone. Then again it's JMO.

Morning everyone!

[Lala'sMom]

Anna
When my coffemaker goes on the blink...my life is a mess until I can get another...sympathies to you...I can relate.

[Lala'sMom]

Hi Kimmy!

Lala's - I think I ran Carnut away.  

Hi BT, is it raining in your neck of the woods today?  It is mine.

[BTgirl]

Hi Kimmy!

Lala's - I think I ran Carnut away.  

Hi BT, is it raining in your neck of the woods today?  It is mine.

It's raining, Lala's, and I'm about to go shopping at Hamilton Place Mall.

If you've ever been there when it's crowded, you will be able to feel my pain.

[Lala'sMom]

Hi Kimmy!

Lala's - I think I ran Carnut away.  

Hi BT, is it raining in your neck of the woods today?  It is mine.

It's raining, Lala's, and I'm about to go shopping at Hamilton Place Mall.

If you've ever been there when it's crowded, you will be able to feel my pain.

You should take my daughter, it's one of her fave places when she visits family in Cleveland.  May the force be with you.

[Tylergal]

Anna, give yourself a "cup on demand" for Christmas.  You will never regret it (Cuisinart).

[Tylergal]

Hi, BT, are you buying fresh toothbrushes for Christmas?

I tend to agree that Freddy is the video king and we have read it on their sites, "Deepak, king of bling."  Now does that mean he is/is not a virgin?  I do not know, but Joran said he was when he was trying to make it sound as though Deepak went back just for the virginal experience and killed Natalee.  Prior to that, he was so bragadocious on his websites about Deepak being the king of bling.