Natalee Case Discussion #828 1/28/10

Quote from: billb on January 31, 2010, 09:48:41 PM

Quote from: Kermit on January 31, 2010, 08:32:35 PM

Premeditation in the context of murder describes actions which were planned prior to their being executed.

JORAN CAST HIMSELF AS A FELLOW "TOURIST".

HE WENT IN WITH THE INTENT ... BEFORE HE SELECTED HIS VICTIM.

ALL THEY NEEDED WAS TO FIND THE TARGET – NATALEE HOLLOWAY.

p. 73 Dave Holloways book: "Another acquaintance of Natalee's from Mountian Brook High dindicated that he remembered seeing the Kalpoe brothers and Joran
at the Holiday Inn casino on Thursday, May 26, 2005. Natalee was there with the Mountain Brook students and the acquaintance saw her talking to the three boys.
The students left to go to Carlos' n Charlie's, and later on they saw the three boys arrive there, and the acquaintance talked to them. They told him they were foreign exchange students studying in Aruba, and Joran said he was Dutch.

. 30 beth Holloways book: "The last information communicated from the students before they board their plane is that thisJoran guy is a tourist from Holland. And he is staying at the Holiday Inn."

p. 39 "The Holiday Inn night manager, Brenda, hows him by name." Oh! Yes...yest...Joran. He gambles in the Excelsior Casino here. He likes to prey on young female tourists. Especially the blonds."

STEP BY STEP OF HOW JORAN TARGETED NATALEE HOLLOWAY.

"Police say Joran met Holloway at a casino two days before her disappearance"
http://www.losbanosenterprise.com/24hour/nation/story/2506918p-10865076c.html

SATURDAY MAY 28, 2005
Brian Connor Rise saw who he believed to be JVDS speaking with Francis Ellen Byrd and Lee Ashford on Saturday evening, May 28. Riser provided a description of the individual he saw speaking to these girls: he was tall, white, had dark hair, sunburned, approximately 18 – 19 yrs. old.

SUNDAY MAY 29, 2005
While on the beach: Lee Ashford Broughton states that Natalee met Joran Van der Sloot on the beach during the time that Natalee was there in the day.

Holiday Inn Bar by Pool

Lee Ashford Broughton: Following the MB students exiting from the Excelsior casino, Joran VDS walked with Natalee and other students to the HI Bar by the pool.

"At about 9:45 PM, Natalee, LAB, Joran and others walked over to the BAR BY THE POOL.
After telling students that no one really goes out on Sundays, Joran left the students, after about 5 minutes.

KISSEL: I didn't know him, but I had seen -- he had been around the hotel and the casino with her and with her friends, her closer friends, just hanging out around the hotel for the last few days, two or three days.

THE TARGET IS SELECTED: NATALEE HOLLOWAY

Manipulating a false sense of “trust” and “safety”

It is clear from various accounts given by the Mountain Brook students, that Joran Van der Sloot had been falsely presenting himself to the “MB” students as a “tourist” and “student” from the Netherlands. Furthermore, photographs taken seem to suggest that Joran Van der Sloot had been lurking about at the Holiday Inn hotel in the days prior to Natalee being kidnapped by him and his friends.

http://www.scrux.com/natalee/mbinterview.htm

<snip>

Greta Van Susteren: Do you remember any conversation at all you had with him, like even if it was like' about chips, or anything at all?

Ruth McVey: Only that he said that he was 19 and played soccer at a school in Holland.

In a photo taken of Natalee in the final hours of her life, it is clear that in presenting himself as a “tourist, Joran was attempting to give the students a false sense of “trust” - that he was just like them, a fellow tourist on vacation.

Why else would he lie to them about who he was, why he was there, and where he was from?
In one of the last photo’s taken of Natalee, a man can be seen seated directly behind her.[/color=blue][/i]

THE "SPORTS BAR IS INSIDE THE MAIN HI LOBBY ENTRANCE AREA, JUST ADJACENT TO THE CASINO. THE POOL BAR, IS OUTSIDE, BY THE POOL AREA, AND CLOSER TO THE WATER AND THE BEACH AREAS.

The Sports Bar

Joran claims the girls left, and walked to the Sports bar at the hotel: 9:45 PM*

After this I told the girl that it was OK and that I would do my best to go to "Carlos & Charlies". After that the group of girls walked to the Sports bar. (JVDS 6/9/05) *Note: There appears to be a name mentioned by JVDS, that was omitted from the transcript.

Natalee exits the restroom in HI Lobby

Natalee Holloway is seen exiting the restroom in the HI Lobby: 9 PM – 10 PM

NLW’s last conversation with Holloway took place earlier on Sunday evening sometime between 9:00 PM and 10:00 PM. NLW saw Holloway coming out of the bathroom in the Holiday Inn lobby area. (NLW/302)

The Sports Bar

Joran claims the girls left, and walked to the Sports bar at the hotel: 9:45 PM*

After this I told the girl that it was OK and that I would do my best to go to "Carlos & Charlies". After that the group of girls walked to the Sports bar. (JVDS 6/9/05)

That is Joran with his back to Natalee and Ruth McVey in the Sports bar sitting right behind them

The Bar by the Pool

A “MB” Student claims that Joran walked WITH the girls to the Bar by the Pool, following them there. *9:45 PM

At approximately 9:45 PM, LAB, Holloway, Juron and others went to the hotel bar by the pool.
(LAB/302)

Joran at the Bar by the Pool: “Nobody really goes out on Sunday nights.”

Joran stays at the Bar by the pool for five minutes and as he leaves, he tells Natalee that no one really goes to C and C on a Sunday night:
9:50 PM

Approximately five minutes later, when Juron was leaving, Holloway asked if Juron was going to meet them later at C and C. Juron stated that nobody really goes out on Sunday nights. (LAB/302) *ck. source.

Natalee takes a taxi with friends and goes to C and C

Sometime after 10:00 PM, Natalee left with friends taking a taxi to C and C’s: 10:00PM

Shortly after 10:00 PM, everyone from the group that was going out met to get on the bus. Holloway, MV, TL, and two others took a taxi.. (MV/302)

Moments later…Joran states he will be going to C and C’s as he speaks to his friends that he meets at the Sports bar with whom he regularly meets at C and C’s.

The Sports Bar.

Joran at the Sports Bar: “I would be going to C and C’s that night”.
Joran watches baseball and meets two “friends”.

After MB students place Joran as leaving the Bar by the pool after staying for only five minutes, Joran places himself inside the Sportsbar of the hotel where he watches the baseball game, and meets two friends telling them he would be going to C and C’s: * 9: 55 PM

In the Sportsbar I also saw to two acquaintances who were watching baseball. I greeted my two acquaintances and told them that I was doing fine too and that I would be going to "Carlos & Charlies" that night. My two acquaintances are named "Luis" and "Joshua". I regularly meet them at Carlos & Charlies. The last name of Luis is "BETANCOURT". I do not know the last name of Joshua. Luis BETANCOURT is a Venezuelan and according to me Joshua is Colombian but I don't know that for sure. (JVDS 6/9/05)
Joran walks up to a group of girls and tells them that concerning his going to C and C's: “I would do my best.”

Following Joran stating to his friends, that he would be going to C and C’s that night, Joran then walks up to some MB students who have not left for C and C's, and Joran tells them that he "would do his best":

Joran walks up to a group of girls and tells them that concerning his going to C and C's: “I would do my best.”

Following Joran stating to his friends, that he would be going to C and C’s that night, Joran then walks up to some MB students who have not left for C and C's, and Joran tells them that he "would do his best":

After that I walked next to the group of girls and they said to me that I should not forget to go to Carlos & Charlies. I told that that I would do my best. (JVDS 6/9/05)

Note: it appears that this is a different group of girls from MB, from those with whom Joran had been with at the Bar by the Pool, and that Joran had now walked up to this group of MB girls who were gathered inside the hotel at the Sports bar, following his exit from the Pool bar, where Natalee was with her friends. Again, Joran gives this group of girls, the same type of impression that he had given earlier at the casino, and to Natalee by the Pool, - that being, that he may or may not go to Carlos and Charlies, yet - clearly, his intentions to go to C and C were being very clearly communicated - in his own words - when speaking to his male "friends" with whom Joran "meets" regularly at C and C's.

Joran claims he exited the hotel through the casino and phoned his father.

Joran states that he then walked outside, phoning his father for a pick up: 11:00 PM

After that I walked outside through the casino and when I got outside I called my father from my mobile phone which has the number "REMOVED" on the mobile phone of my mother…<snip>.. When I called my father it was approximately 23.00 hours. I told my father that I was ready and if he could come and pick me up at "Mc Donalds".

Again… only moments after telling Natalee that “nobody really goes to C and C’s on a Sunday night”, and telling other students that he would “do his best”, Joran then indicates for a second time, that his intention is to go to C and C’s.

Joran's intends to go to C and C

Joran then phones several friends asking them to accompany him to C and C:

Jamie Carasquilla/ “Beto”

After that I had called my friend "Jaime CARASQUILLA" (aka/ Beto) on his mobile phone. <snip> I asked Beto what he was doing and whether he wanted to accompany me in going to Carlos & Charlies. (JVDS 6/9/05)

Joran had phone Jaime MUCH earlier in the day, telling him of the MB girls, and the plan to go to C&C's that night. That later call that Joran mentions above - Jaime never answered it:

Jaime Carrasquilla witness statement June 17, 2005

On May 29th 2005, between the hours of 16.00 and 19.00, I was called by Joran on my mobile phone with the phone number "*******". Joran had asked me whether I wanted to go out with him that night. He told me that a few American girls would go to "Carlos & Charlies" and whether I wanted to meet up with him there.

According to me I was phoned later that day by Joran again but I hadn't answered my mobile phone. On May 29th 2005 I stayed home and slept. I went to bed at approximately 22.00 hours.

Deepak/ “Tupac”

After that I called Deepak KALPOE and asked him what he was doing and if he wanted to come with me to Carlos & Charlies. Deepak told me he was closing up "Inex" and that he would accompany me to Carlos & Charlies because he didn't have to go to work the next day.

Joran states he walked to McDonalds and was picked up there by his father.

After phoning Deepak, Joran states that he walked to McDonalds and was picked up by his father. 11:00 PM

I walked through the Hyatt parking lot where they have a Coca Cola vending machine and there I bought a can of coke. After that I walked to Mc Donalds and had bought a Mc Flurry there. At 23.00 hours my father came to pick me up at Mc Donalds. I am not sure about the time because I never wear a watch. (JVDS 6/9/05)

On the Record
Greta Van Susteren
March 2006

VAN SUSTEREN: Interested in any of them at — at the poker table?

VAN DER SLOOT: Interested? No, not really. I was more talking — the girl that was sitting next to me, I was — I thought she was pretty and I was talking to her. And when I went — what the point was for going to Carlos 'n Charlie's was I wanted to actually meet up with her.

Satish June 11, 2005

On the way to Carlos and Charlies Joran told us that during that day in the afternoon hours he had met a few girls in the casino.

Names of all three men who took Natalee away:
1. Joran Andreas Petrus van der Sloot, born Aug. 6, 1987
2. Deepak Sharma Kalpoe, born Oct. 6, 1983 is 22 this October.
3. Satish Sharma Kalpoe, born July 30, 1986

JORAN AND/OR DEEPAK LED NATALEE AWAY FROM HER FRIENDS TO DEEPAK'S CAR
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11007598/
1/23/2006
<snip>

HOLLOWAY: Well, I think there was some early confusion on what some of the Mountain Brook kids reported and what they said. I did speak with one individual. And he said that they all came out of the establishment, and they were all talking, and everybody appeared to be OK. And then suddenly they saw Natalee look around as if she was looking for someone and walked back into the establishment and was back in there approximately 15 minutes. And then, when she came out, Deepak had her by the arm, leading her out of the bar.

COSBY: And that was the last thing that they saw?

HOLLOWAY: Well, that was one of the individuals‘ witness statement was, was that Deepak walked her out. Some of the others indicated that she walked out with Joran. So I think that‘s a matter of clearing that issue up.

C.CROES: Specifically, she told me that her daughter went to Carlos and Charlie's, and that, while there, she had met up with a young guy and asked him to take her home, and that she got into a small silver or gray car that had a large exhaust on the back and tinted windows, and had left.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161233,00.html

WHAT NATALEE WITH JORAN VAN DER SLOOT?
Alana Jordan: (was Natalee with Van Der Sloot) Yes, she was
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159764,00.html

Ed Kissel: (when was the last time he saw Natalee) I think I saw her a little later that night. I had stayed in Carlos 'n Charlie's pretty long, and I saw her dancing with Van Der Sloot later that night

Ed Kissel: (did he see Natalee get into a car with Joran and the two other guys) I did not see her getting in the car. I saw her leaving, looked like with Van Der Sloot. I didn't see her getting in the car. You couldn't really see the road from inside the bar, so that is what I saw
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159764,00.html

Ben Miller: (quoted in news article that..) he later saw her leave Carlos 'N Charlie's, with Kalpoe and his brother Satish

JUG TWITTY: You know, I asked a question about, I understand that there was a statement made by Joran, where he talks about what he had done to Natalee and he described in very graphic detail, like, the stitching and embroidery and everything on Natalee`s underwear. And he goes, Oh, no, no, no. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Well, little did he know I had just read the statements where Joran describes that to the "T," you know, two days before. But of course, I didn`t tell him that. But that`s just when I started to think something`s wrong here.
Aired October 4, 2005 - 20:00:00 ET
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0510/04/ng.01.html

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: Well, not only did he know specific details about her underclothing, but also just physical descriptions of her, so...

GRACE: Without her clothes on.

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: Yes.

PATTERN OF BEHAVIOR

“DONE IT TWENTY TIMES BEFORE”(source Joran:

JORAN'S CONFESSION
sometimes we would rent a hotel room. I happened that three guys were in the same room having sex with girls. I was given a blow job on a balcony once by an American girl while Deepak was in the bathroom with a girl and Freddy was in the room proper with a girl too. But we did never share a girl or did threesomes. That was going way too far for me. We did however make topless pictures of a girl in a hotel room once.
(source: Joran's book Page 4 & 5 (only a bit to page 5, the last page of this chapter):

Deepak had put on a DVD with music video's. One of them was Benny Benassi's video for Satisfaction. It was an x-rated version and had explicit sex-scenes in it. (Joran's book: Chapter 8 continued:page 11 + 12)

We usually went to "Carlos & Charlies", "Tantra" and "Bahia". We usually went to these places to dance and to drink.Deepak Kalpoe Suspect Statement 06/13/05

VAN DER SLOOT: “I mean it's happened probably 20, 20 times nothing has ever gone wrong” (source: http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,186707,00.html)/

Satish June 24, 2005

On your question if this the first time that we have dropped young American girls off at their hotel, I can explain to you the following:

This is not the first time that we have dropped young American girls off at their hotel. Generally after closing time of Carlos & Charlies, we drop young American girl at their hotels. With we I mean, my brother, Joran and I.
Each weekend Joran is with us.

Jan van der Straaten, Chief of Polis told the press that Joran and Natalee were "just friends".
This proves conslusively that Joran did inflitrate the group of Mountain Brook teens with his false identiy as a tourist to gain their trust and he targeted Natalee Holloway by the admission of the Chief of Polis

Kyle - what is upstairs from MJ's??

I'm sorry for not being clear. MJs is the level which they approached at. The bar is on the second story of the building. They didn't approach from the main staircase where you enter past the bouncers who were collecting the cover charge at street level. There were two more bouncers at MJs for people coming from the second story way.

upstairs from MJs there are offices which appeared to be mainly empty travel agencies

NATIONAL ENQUIRER
Published on: 07/22/2005
"When Natalee died, Joran got in touch with the dealer. The theory is that the dealer had an incentive to dispose of her body so that police wouldn't trace the drugs back to him. But the dealer made it clear to Joran that if he talked he'd disappear too."
http://tinyurl.com/na765

Simian Says:
June 29th, 2005 at 4:18 pm
4:29 post
JVDS and Kalpoes are involved in prostitution/drugs ring themselves, not just getting dope from the dealers
____________________________________-
"Paulus told the headmaster that Joran and Natalee had been taking drugs and decided to go for a swim. As they played in and around the water, Natalee fell, hit her head on a rock and drowned. In a drug and alcohol-induced panic, Joran felt he had no other choice but to dispose of Natalee's body in the sea." [/b]
(Source:Published on: 07/15/2005
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/crime/63315)

Joran says that he thought the friend called for a boat.
(Patrick's book: Some new data from car ride 13-01-2008)

Joran swore he had checked and that ‘she was finished’, like he said. ‘Natalee didn’t do anything anymore,’ he said, like she was some kind of winding doll
(Patrick's book Page 220 )

J: He looked at me and he said: ‘She’s not living anymore, she’s dead.’
(Patrick's book: Pgs 274 - 280)

MORE THEN ONE PERSON CAUSED NATALEE'S DEATH
J: Yeah, I knew what happened, but you know…I can’t say anything about that. You can’t do that. You can’t jeopardize those other people right?
(Patrick's book: Pgs 274 - 280)

J: They’ve got nothing, according to our statements I was the last one to be with that girl.
(Patricks book: p.188)

J: Yes, that’s what I mean. So yeah, I got her and put her a bit near those mangroves

<snip>
P: And how late was this?

J: 02:00…02:30…02:00
<snip>
J: his boat is right there…near the pier. I knew that too
<snip>
J: And euh….and then we just brought her to that boat.

P: lifted?
J: Yeah, quickly; the two of us. And he…

P: But nobody saw you then?

J: Nobody was there.
<snip>
P: Okay, but you’re walking home and he sails right out.

J: He sails right out.

7:02 am: Paulus visits hotmail

7:34-7:37 pm: Paulus vists several stock-related sites

7:37 pm: Paulus googles "alcohol", beer", and "drugs". Visits sites containing information on alcohol and drugs, the dangers of these for young people, and a lawyer's office. The sites are visited only briefly.

"DRESSED LIKE A SLUT"

Jamie Skeeter's: "I'm sure you all had sex with her that night."

Deepak Kalpoe: "Yes, she did."
"YOU'D BE SURPRISED HOW EASY IT WAS"

SEE YOU IN COURT DEEPAK AND SATISH

Kermit snip...
Premeditation in the context of murder describes actions which were planned prior to their being executed.

Kermit...Pretty convincing.....I'd love to see Dr. Phil have his day in court with D&S under oath....and/or dispositions...

Kermit snip....
In the Sportsbar I also saw to two acquaintances who were watching baseball. I greeted my two acquaintances and told them that I was doing fine too and that I would be going to "Carlos & Charlies" that night. My two acquaintances are named "Luis" and "Joshua". I regularly meet them at Carlos & Charlies. The last name of Luis is "BETANCOURT". I do not know the last name of Joshua. Luis BETANCOURT is a Venezuelan and according to me Joshua is Colombian but I don't know that for sure. (JVDS 6/9/05)

I wonder what roles "luis" and Joshua" played that night (and/or other nights) at C&C.....have they been overlooked?

I'm hoping an investigative agency will some day have the authority to act on this and all the other incriminating evidence to nail the perps and bring Justice for Natalee.....

Heh Heh I'm stacking just for you billb.

I believe that there are things over-looked and it takes all of us to go through it, one step at a time and find that piece we need. Someone will make a mistake. Mark my words.