Natalee Case Discussion #828 1/28/10 - 2/14/10

[crazybabyborg]

SHE'S BACK!   

Klaas? You could always throw a toy for Petey to chase as you go out the door. You'd be home by the time he ran back with it!   

[Magnolia]

SHE'S BACK!   

Klaas? You could always throw a toy for Petey to chase as you go out the door. You'd be home by the time he ran back with it!   

I say just let him go along!  Hudson thinks it is his job to go with me to the store.
He sits up in the passenger seat with his seat belt on and his nose a little tilted up.
it is a funny sight.

[Tamikosmom]

When the following comparisons are considered ... I cannot comprehend what was Deepak Kalpoe (Aruba) motivation in regards to this defamation lawsuit.  It is obvious that Deepak defamed himself in the Skeeters' interview.  The evidence speaks for itself.

Janet

+++++++++
 

COMPARISONS

'The Abrams Report' - December 2, 2005

JAMIE SKEETERS’ HARD DRIVE

DAN ABRAMS, HOST: … I‘m going to play Jamie Skeeters‘ version—again, that‘s the actual one we got.  We went to Jamie Skeeters‘ office and recorded exactly what he had on his hard drive.

All right, so let‘s start with the—this is the Jamie Skeeters‘ version.  This is what actually came from the hard drive.  Here it is.
 
(BEGIN AUDIOTAPE)

SKEETERS:  Nobody told her that you can‘t (EXPLETIVE DELETED).  You know?  I mean and I‘m sure she had sex with all of you.
 
KALPOE:  Yes, she did.  You‘d be surprised how simple it was that night.

(END AUDIOTAPE)
 

DR. PHIL’S RECORDING

DAN ABRAMS, HOST: … Here again what was played on the “Dr. Phil” show.
 
(BEGIN AUDIOTAPE)

SKEETERS:  And the question I‘ll ask you is if you intentionally killed her?  If it was an accident I can help all of you.  And if you guys were partying --  even if somebody had given her a date drug—I‘m sure she had sex with all of you.
 
KALPOE:  She did.  You‘d be surprised how simple it was.


ARLENE SCHIPPER’S RECORDING

DAN ABRAMS, HOST: Now, this is the version that we got from Arlene in Aruba and I have to tell you, it sounds different.
 
(BEGIN AUDIOTAPE)
 
SKEETERS:  Nobody told her that you can‘t (EXPLETIVE DELETED).  You know?  I mean and I‘m sure she had sex with all of you.
 
KALPOE:  No, she didn‘t.  You would be surprised how simple it was that night.
 
(END AUDIOTAPE)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10294603/


COMMON SENSE

'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' - December 1, 2005

RITA COSBY, HOST: Do you believe he‘s saying that they did have sex with her? Is that what you believe?

DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY‘S FATHER:  Oh, yes. Absolutely. You can‘t have a negative and then turn around and then support it with a positive. I mean, they‘ve got to put the whole sentence together for it to make sense. If they said, No, we didn‘t, and then turn around and said, You wouldn‘t believe how simple it was, that just—that just doesn‘t make sense.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10281941/

[msmarple]

Just saying Hello to all, and nodding encouragement to klaas -- 

Please don't despair.

(After all, we're MONKEYS - what can you expect ?!?!? This is what you get when you give computers to a room full of monkeys ... )

Puppy = Adorable. Congratulations!

[klaasend]

SHE'S BACK!   

Klaas? You could always throw a toy for Petey to chase as you go out the door. You'd be home by the time he ran back with it!   

I say just let him go along!  Hudson thinks it is his job to go with me to the store.
He sits up in the passenger seat with his seat belt on and his nose a little tilted up.
it is a funny sight.

Petey has a bit too much energy to leave in a car unattended   

I've figured out how to take and email a video from my blackberry, now I need to find the correct application to get to live stream the video 

[klaasend]

Just saying Hello to all, and nodding encouragement to klaas -- 

Please don't despair.

(After all, we're MONKEYS - what can you expect ?!?!? This is what you get when you give computers to a room full of monkeys ... )

Puppy = Adorable. Congratulations!

msmarple - great to see you!  I have my disguise   and I'll be taking video 

[msmarple]

klaas - Yes, I'm looking forward to your day in court, and I'll be following closely! Maybe you can get a gig as a stringer! It would be fun to "live blog" the proceedings ... There are monkeys who probably can shoot holes in everything the Ks throw out there.

O/T -

Tomorrow is Groundhog Day.

Here's a wardrobe suggestion for Friday, Feb. 5 - Wear red for Heart Disease Awareness Day.  (Just a suggestion.)

Chinese New Year begins Feb. 10 - it will be 4708, the Year of the tiger ... a fun time to go with a big group to a Chinese restaurant; I think the celebration lasts for 15 days.

Now that I've plugged those gaps in everyone's social calendars ...

[Blonde]

Some days I'm just not sure why I bother.  Maybe it's time to close down the NH forum at SM.

Is there any particular reason you're posting this?  Have you been getting troubling emails?  Is it the squabbling?  It's okay if you don't want to say.  I was reading along in this thread and wondered why you posted this.  I know it can be difficult and frustrating, particularly when we don't get much new information, which sometimes leads to hashing and rehashing and arguments.  I read here each and every day, even though you may not see me post  in this thread or see me up in the rafters hanging out in here.  Natalee Holloway brought me to Scared Monkeys.  I just wish we could bring her home.    

Thank you for all you you do and all you've done for Natalee and her family and the other missing and exploited and their families,  Klaas.      MuffyBee

I read here each and every day too, even though you may not see me post.
 I'm still here for Natalee I just can't quit...

[crazybabyborg]

Hi MsMarple!!   

It's great to see you!

You too, Blonde! 

I've been thinking a lot about Klaas's post about giving up. I understand the logic. When you really look back, this case was solved a few days after Natalee's disappearance. We all knew down deep that Natalee was no longer alive and we all knew who was accountable. For a long time, it was about bringing them to justice and, for me, that was primarily wrapped up around Beth and my own sense of right and wrong. I also wanted the perps to be kept from repeating harm to anyone else. I beleive that Beth finally reached a stage of closure with the DeVries tapes. She and all with ears, heard Joran admit to being with Natalee when she died and unlift the ridiculous curtain of denial he had presented to the world. I have reached an uncomfortable acceptance that Deepak, Satish, and Joran will never be held legally responsible for what they've done.  BUT..........

They are paying a price that will only be determined by the days of their lives. Joran cannot go home and his future is very different than what he had imagined prior to Natalee. I also think that before all is said and done the actual events that are truthful will come out. Too many people know what happened for it to always remain hidden, IMO. I'd like to be able to run right here, with all of you when it does. I would love for Natalee's remains to be placed at home and away from that Hellhole. That looks impossible to me, but I somehow still have a sliver of hope.

This much I do know: I'm so grateful to have all of you. To me, this thread is the heart of SM. We may have outlived hope of a trial for the murder of Natalee, but we also have outlived other things that we miss, and attest to by our continuation. Peaches comes to mind. I want to be around when Robots stops by every blue moon or so, and all those who come running whenever there's any news. Klaas? We love you and so appreciate all the effort and wisdom that you've poured into Natalee's cause. You too, are part of the reason I want the thread to stay.   

[Tamikosmom]

Thank you CBB.  Your insightful words reflect my thoughts.

However ... two issues keep me keeping on.

1.  If Kyle Kingman's own words regarding the happenings on board the Persistence encompassing the trap/cage along with the exposure of the ROV footage from the Persistence can bring pressure on a Aruba to reveal the truth in regards to what was recovered from that trap ... the family of Natalee Holloway could received ... at the very least ... a measure of closure.  At the very most ...  my prayer is that Natalee could come home to rest on American soil.

2.  If the outcome of the defamation lawsuit against Phil McGraw reveals beyond a doubt through comparative professional analysis that Deepak Kalpoe utter the disputed words in his interview with Skeeters ... the implicatons are huge.  Think about it.  Deepak is no longer a suspect in the Natalee Holloway case.

Thanks again CBB.

Janet

+++++++

THE SEARCH FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY - BETH HOLLOWAY
TLC – 2010-01-17

"What I can do is hopefully share some life lessons and prevent this tragedy from happening to another family.  So I stay focused on what I can do rather than what I can't.  I can't get justice for Natalee".

http://tlc.discovery.com/tv-schedules/special.html?paid=2.1213.56293


LOVING NATALEE - BETH HOLLOWAY

Page 189:   It's the proverbial, Biblical conflict between good and evil.  It's very, very hard to fight evil because it constantly changes form and you never know who your enemies are.  And evil is always two steps ahead.  From the outset we never had a chance.  But we didn't know it.  I'm taking leave of the island, but not from the work yet to be done.

Page 197:  There is apparently no amount of money in the world that can get us the answer to what happened to Natalee.  When I asked an Aruban attorney about this, his response was chilling:  "The threat is bigger than the money," he says.  The Threat.  That dark influence.  The evil that nothing and no one can pierce.

[Edward]

"Natalee did not ask Joren to help her win back money, just introduced herself and chatted a bit with him."

food for thought.

I agree, this is true.   I am not sure what I should be thinking about it.   

My question is this..
WHO is the girl that Joran did win the money for ?
WHY has she not stepped forward ?
WHY was Natalee targeted by Joran in the first place ? She was not even the girl Joran won money for.
WAS Joran promised something in return for winning back the money ? and Natalee was a stand in ? Given away by her close friends.. who really set her up for a fate that ended in her death... A practical joke that went terribly wrong.
The silence out of this group is deafening.. A spineless group of back stabbers ?? OR, just letting Beth handle everything..
 

I know I am not as easy on the MB kiddies as Beth is.
These kinds of hard questions should have been asked in the very beginning instead of trying to protect all of them that were gambling drinking and party people on Aruba and clearly not all of the MB people were as I have seen many pictures of others that had little or nothing to do with drinking and partying with the local boys who had other intentions for our American girls like Joran.

A few of the FBI 302s have been posted.  Some are dated June 2 2005. They seemed to be honest regarding their activity. I believe there was not more internet posts because there was no MB conspiracy. 

Ruth McVeigh was the one trying to win money back. I seriously doubt that Joran would have agrred to give gambling advice for trade of a fellow student. Joran, the fellow visitor, was appearing to be helpful to win trust.

I think Natalee was targeted because she was blond and naive and believed she was getting a ride back to her hotel from a fellow visitor.

I have no reason to believe the MB people were not forthcoming.  We would not know about the drinking if they had not stated that to the FBI.

In pictures, Joran would have looked like an MB student or fellow visitor.  There is nothing about him that stands out as local.

The kids might not have been overly attentive or concerned about danger.  That is a far cry from conspiracy and involvement.

Others here consider "Kyle Kingman's own words" as a conspiracy..
To make that thought requires critical thinking..
Why no critical thinking on the MB kids ?
 who spent all week with Joran roaming in and out of there lives..
 IF Twitty's kid was playing cards with Joran in the casino ?
 other kids were sitting around the casino then WHY have you no critical thinking and why when Joran makes a comment like "I won her some money" Why do the MB people stay silent instead of speaking up and calling him out as a liar.. ?
We may have made it much further if they had is my only point..
Also this... Paulus advises Deepaks attorney.. WHY has nobody made light of this ??

[Tamikosmom]

Others here consider "Kyle Kingman's own words" as a conspiracy..
To make that thought requires critical thinking..
Why no critical thinking on the MB kids ?
 who spent all week with Joran roaming in and out of there lives..
 IF Twitty's kid was playing cards with Joran in the casino ?
 other kids were sitting around the casino then WHY have you no critical thinking and why when Joran makes a comment like "I won her some money" Why do the MB people stay silent instead of speaking up and calling him out as a liar.. ?
We may have made it much further if they had is my only point..
Also this... Paulus advises Deepaks attorney.. WHY has nobody made light of this ??

 

[Edward]

Well, was he or not ?

[jen3560]

Edward,

Throughout these years I have seen a plethora of posts regarding the other MB students who were in Aruba with Natalee - and the "critical thinking" as you term it, in avoidance of an argument. 

For me it comes down to this.

The FBI spoke with those students who were close to Natalee on that trip, as early as June 6, 2005.  The FBI knew, and Beth knew what those students had to say, and what really went on.

However - both Beth and the FBI also knew one thing more.

They knew immediately (first 72 hours, according to Beth) the shennanigans Aruba was putting forth.  They knew the attempts at besmirching Natalee's character, and that of her family.  They knew that Aruba immediately covered up the first lie Joran et al told to authorities.

We also learned of these things - but not until later.

I can fully understand Beth, the FBI, and those students parents cautioning those kids to stay out of the limelight - in order to avoid becoming yet more targets for Aruba's mis/disinformation campaign that we can all bear witness to.

Think of all the bullsh*t stories we've heard out of Aruba about Natalee and her family:

1 - she's a runaway
2 - she was molested by Jug
3 - she's a crack head
4 - they did it as an insurance scam

Could you just imagine what Aruba's mouthpieces would have done to her fellow students if given half the chance?

I shudder at the thought!

Not a single one of those kids would have had the knowledge, means or access on that foreign rock to so thoroughly dispose of their friends body.  Not one of them.

I certainly don't mean to start a brew ha-ha here about this.  But it just angers me to no end to see speculation without any basis in fact about those kids.

Were they the best of friends in allowing Natalee to go off with people she didn't know?  No.

Was excellent judgement used by everyone on that trip at all times?  No.

Those are the only faults I can find in the behaviour of any of the MB students - Natalee included........and that is being very fair minded, as I firmly believe she was given some drug that affected her thought processing ability.

Those faults out in the open - none of that ever warrants or excuses the fate that befell Natalee.

Nothing ANY of those students did gave anyone an invitation to kidnap, rape and murder their friend.

Teenagers are notorious in their delusioned invinceability.  None ever thinks anything bad can happen if they let their guard down for even a second.

But this time it did.

The only ones responsible for the totality of what happened to Natalee are the ones who lured her to their car, and the father of one.

[Buckeye]

Edward

They did discus Joran and Ruth Mc Veigh and the money in their FBI 302.  They saw him around for a couple days.  They only got in on Thursday.  Their FBI statements seem pretty honest to me.

I agree with Jenn with one exception....I think Anita was in on it from the get go.  Paulus talked to her in Holland and told her Joran was the last one with Natalee (supposedly when everyone believed the HI lie).

[Tamikosmom]

I am encouraged when I read the Abrams Report but ... then I read the statement from the Superior Court of California.  Does this court document which exonerates Jamie Skeeters' of wrongdoing imply that the disputed segment of the Phil McGraw recording may differ from  words on the hard drive?

++++++

'The Abrams Report' - December 2, 2005

DAN ABRAMS, HOST: … I‘m going to play Jamie Skeeters‘ version—again, that‘s the actual one we got.  We went to Jamie Skeeters‘ office and recorded exactly what he had on his hard drive.

All right, so let‘s start with the—this is the Jamie Skeeters‘ version.  This is what actually came from the hard drive.  Here it is.
 
(BEGIN AUDIOTAPE)

SKEETERS:  Nobody told her that you can‘t (EXPLETIVE DELETED).  You know?  I mean and I‘m sure she had sex with all of you.
 
KALPOE:  Yes, she did.  You‘d be surprised how simple it was that night.

(END AUDIOTAPE)
 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10294603/


SUPERIOR COURT OF CALIFORNIA, COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES

Page 14:  To the extent that the Dr. Phil Show Defendants can be shown to have been negligent or reckless in the way they edited the show and thus potentially liable, there is no competent showing the Defendant Skeeter was so involved.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/kalpoedrphil050609awm.pdf

[jen3560]

Edward

They did discus Joran and Ruth Mc Veigh and the money in their FBI 302.  They saw him around for a couple days.  They only got in on Thursday.  Their FBI statements seem pretty honest to me.

I agree with Jenn with one exception....I think Anita was in on it from the get go.  Paulus talked to her in Holland and told her Joran was the last one with Natalee (supposedly when everyone believed the HI lie).

Buckeye - I think my post was maybe vague there......

I believe Paulus was instrumental in the initial crimes committed against Natalee - the casino video footage helps me in that belief.

In my post above I wasn't referring to the immediate ensuing cover up of those initial crimes.

I fully believe Anita was a part of that also.

I believe those two enabled and covered up for that worthless son of theirs for many years prior to what happened to Natalee.  I believe by that time it was second nature to them.

What I'm still unsure of, is whether or not Anita was aware of her own husband's involvement in what they did to Natalee.

[jen3560]

I am encouraged when I read the Abrams Report but ... then I read the statement from the Superior Court of California.  Does this court document which exonerates Jamie Skeeters' of wrongdoing imply that the disputed segment of the Phil McGraw recording may differ from  words on the hard drive?

++++++

'The Abrams Report' - December 2, 2005

DAN ABRAMS, HOST: … I‘m going to play Jamie Skeeters‘ version—again, that‘s the actual one we got.  We went to Jamie Skeeters‘ office and recorded exactly what he had on his hard drive.

All right, so let‘s start with the—this is the Jamie Skeeters‘ version.  This is what actually came from the hard drive.  Here it is.
 
(BEGIN AUDIOTAPE)

SKEETERS:  Nobody told her that you can‘t (EXPLETIVE DELETED).  You know?  I mean and I‘m sure she had sex with all of you.
 
KALPOE:  Yes, she did.  You‘d be surprised how simple it was that night.

(END AUDIOTAPE)
 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10294603/


SUPERIOR COURT OF CALIFORNIA, COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES

Page 14:  To the extent that the Dr. Phil Show Defendants can be shown to have been negligent or reckless in the way they edited the show and thus potentially liable, there is no competent showing the Defendant Skeeter was so involved.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/kalpoedrphil050609awm.pdf

Janet - all I believe the Court was saying in that particular sentence was that it has proven that Jamie Skeeter had no part of, or control over the production of the Dr Phil Show.

therefore - IF wrongdoing has occurred on that show, Jamie could in no way have been invovled.

However, what that entire ruling taken as a whole also tells me is.......  Jamie Skeeter's hard drive said EXACTLY what he said it did.  On many cable news shows.

Therefore, he was not liable for any defamation or libel for what he stated on those news shows.

[Edward]

It is not that the MB students are dishonest.. What I am suggesting is that they know more about the before then the after.. Any one of them could have recognized who was sitting at the poker table..
What did they discuss and who was hanging around.

We know from Jorans own mouth that he was the last one to see Natalee and according to him she was dead.
He claims Deepak and Satish are Ignorant.. YET Paulus Jorans own father is Behind Deepaks lawsuit.. He is and always should have been considered a suspect in this case.
Joran saying he was the last one to see Natalee only backs up Paulus and Deepak for them to Profit on the lawsuit.

This is all by design. In Other Words..Paulus has the edge on us..


IF a Twitty son did play poker with Joran I wonder what conversations took place between them.. I wonder what conversations Joran had with all of them prior to...


I would love to hear from ALL of them that were party to the partying group of MB students.

The other group of MB students were religious and appeared to stay away from both drinking and gambling.. Natalee appeared to roam from one group to the other.

[Edward]

By the way... I have Zero trust in the F.B.I. in this case.

They really let us down with Amy Bradley too.