Lively Case Discussion #565 12/25 - 12/27/2006

[Carnut]

Yes, TCUM, you are right on all counts.  I have bailed him out many times because he was always nice to my mother.  Perhaps he was a better con artist than I knew but he did help her immensely and I felt like I could give him the land and it would give him something to have some pride in, something to care for and he had quit drinking a few years ago and was working regularly, but yes, I have bailed him out before and my DH tells me not this time, although he knows it will be up to me if I do.  I just wish I were not sentimentally attached to the land, where I rode horses, helped my grandmother garden.  My husband keeps telling me if you give someone a gift, you cut the ribbons to it and that means you let it go, because it is a gift and after you give it up, you have no voice and no choice in it, but it hurts.

Well, now did you give the land as a gift or did entrust it to someones care?

Seems to me you think you trusted it to his care and didn't really think you were giving it to him.

[Tylergal]

Yes, TCUM, you are right on all counts.  I have bailed him out many times because he was always nice to my mother.  Perhaps he was a better con artist than I knew but he did help her immensely and I felt like I could give him the land and it would give him something to have some pride in, something to care for and he had quit drinking a few years ago and was working regularly, but yes, I have bailed him out before and my DH tells me not this time, although he knows it will be up to me if I do.  I just wish I were not sentimentally attached to the land, where I rode horses, helped my grandmother garden.  My husband keeps telling me if you give someone a gift, you cut the ribbons to it and that means you let it go, because it is a gift and after you give it up, you have no voice and no choice in it, but it hurts.

Well, now did you give the land as a gift or did entrust it to someones care?

Seems to me you think you trusted it to his care and didn't really think you were giving it to him.

Well, I did "really gift him" in a way sotaspeak.  I deeded him half the land but there is a house on it (small house that was where my grandparents moved to after they were older and could not care for themselves and he lived there near my mother and helped care for her, while living in the house.  I deeded him that land (verbal agreement) under the conditions that he would live there, fix the house up as he had planned to do and take care of some horses that my brother and I owned at one time but have subsequently sold.  He did that for about 4-5 years and it was not that big a deal.  He actually enjoyed the horses but we felt it was too much to ask of him so we sold the horses and he had planted gardens (vegetables and flowers) and was really caring for it and then he got a loan to do more work on the house.  Did not repay the loan.  How could he not do that when he had no rent, no bills except a car payment.  Sheesh.  I need to go let it go.  I did not mean to vent.  I apologize.

[crazybabyborg]

All I can really say is... it is far easier to deal with other people's physical problems, than it is to deal with (and put up with) their emotional problems.

My family has deep, difficult, complicated emotional problems that are just compounded by their physical fallout from the recent accident. I really strive to rise above all that, but it's almost impossible to escape. I would almost rather be alone, EVEN AT CHRISTMAS, than have to deal with emotional cripples who baby one another and take out their frustrations on everyone else. And who manipulate and seek to control others for their own selfish, self-centered reasons.

sb, and Tyler,

God, no wonder you have brought us here together! Amen!

I'm going to sell the house this year................the house that was paid for in full and given to me in a divorce that my ex said was to protect our assets. He gave me everything. And I trusted...............

THEN I began to discover. Discover his porn addiction, his escort in Florida, his SECOND mortgage on the house he had given me, my $350,000 indebtness on joint accounts. I fell into a dark hole and emerged unwilling to let it stand, as he fell closer and closer to bankruptcy. He moved back in in exchange for paying the bills and I started my own company with the money my Mom left me. It's a scary feeling of risking stewardship of all that she intended for me.  We had worked together in his company and I tried to sustain both and have worked 16-18 hours a day, struggling to make it all work, while vacilating from hurt to homicidal tendancies toward him..................and came home to have his presence there too! I got off all the accounts I could, and tried to take comfort in the fact that at least the mortgage was being paid down,......
2 weeks ago, I pulled up my credit report. He had topped the credit line on the house AGAIN! The bank refuses to acknowledge my request made at the time to CLOSE the line, and no, I didn't follow up the conversation in writing.
He's going down, and I'm terrified of what the future holds. I do know who holds the future, and I'm hanging on!

My brother was an alcoholic, sb. I honestly believe my only living relative has a personality disorder. I know dysfunctional and it's an incredible emotional drain on those of us who don't particip[ate in the emotional dysfunction. We just hurt and try to clean up the wreckage.
I learned to seperate my interaction with them, and started interacting with what God would have me do in their presence. Honest. I've prayed so many times to take control of my heart, my mouth, my eyes, my hands and help me fulfill His purpose in relation to them. It removed them from the equation and allowed some of the emotional damage I risked, to be removed.

God love you both, {{{HUGS}}}

[tcumom]

Oh, Tyler ~ I truly understand everything you've said.  I ramble, and I will try not to, tonight (that's why I rarely post).
The only thing I can liken this to is when my Mom sold her home of 45 years in Dallas, a few years ago, to come and live closer to us.  You can imagine the memories and sentimental feelings of 4 children growing up there....well, as I figured would happen, the new owners (with 4 children, too!) came in and of course, wanted to update, tear out, open up......you get the picture......Mom was absolutey devastated....nothing she could do......but we told her......our memories of those days are with us always and forever....we won't lose them.  And, what memories they are!

Maybe you can look at the land as a wonderful memory that you'll have for always.....

[Elaine]

Yes, TCUM, you are right on all counts.  I have bailed him out many times because he was always nice to my mother.  Perhaps he was a better con artist than I knew but he did help her immensely and I felt like I could give him the land and it would give him something to have some pride in, something to care for and he had quit drinking a few years ago and was working regularly, but yes, I have bailed him out before and my DH tells me not this time, although he knows it will be up to me if I do.  I just wish I were not sentimentally attached to the land, where I rode horses, helped my grandmother garden.  My husband keeps telling me if you give someone a gift, you cut the ribbons to it and that means you let it go, because it is a gift and after you give it up, you have no voice and no choice in it, but it hurts.

Well, now did you give the land as a gift or did entrust it to someones care?

Seems to me you think you trusted it to his care and didn't really think you were giving it to him.

Well, I did "really gift him" in a way sotaspeak.  I deeded him half the land but there is a house on it (small house that was where my grandparents moved to after they were older and could not care for themselves and he lived there near my mother and helped care for her, while living in the house.  I deeded him that land (verbal agreement) under the conditions that he would live there, fix the house up as he had planned to do and take care of some horses that my brother and I owned at one time but have subsequently sold.  He did that for about 4-5 years and it was not that big a deal.  He actually enjoyed the horses but we felt it was too much to ask of him so we sold the horses and he had planted gardens (vegetables and flowers) and was really caring for it and then he got a loan to do more work on the house.  Did not repay the loan.  How could he not do that when he had no rent, no bills except a car payment.  Sheesh.  I need to go let it go.  I did not mean to vent.  I apologize.

This is my last question here. Did he use the loan money as he said, to fix the house?

[Tylergal]

Yes, TCUM, you are right on all counts.  I have bailed him out many times because he was always nice to my mother.  Perhaps he was a better con artist than I knew but he did help her immensely and I felt like I could give him the land and it would give him something to have some pride in, something to care for and he had quit drinking a few years ago and was working regularly, but yes, I have bailed him out before and my DH tells me not this time, although he knows it will be up to me if I do.  I just wish I were not sentimentally attached to the land, where I rode horses, helped my grandmother garden.  My husband keeps telling me if you give someone a gift, you cut the ribbons to it and that means you let it go, because it is a gift and after you give it up, you have no voice and no choice in it, but it hurts.

Well, now did you give the land as a gift or did entrust it to someones care?

Seems to me you think you trusted it to his care and didn't really think you were giving it to him.

Well, I did "really gift him" in a way sotaspeak.  I deeded him half the land but there is a house on it (small house that was where my grandparents moved to after they were older and could not care for themselves and he lived there near my mother and helped care for her, while living in the house.  I deeded him that land (verbal agreement) under the conditions that he would live there, fix the house up as he had planned to do and take care of some horses that my brother and I owned at one time but have subsequently sold.  He did that for about 4-5 years and it was not that big a deal.  He actually enjoyed the horses but we felt it was too much to ask of him so we sold the horses and he had planted gardens (vegetables and flowers) and was really caring for it and then he got a loan to do more work on the house.  Did not repay the loan.  How could he not do that when he had no rent, no bills except a car payment.  Sheesh.  I need to go let it go.  I did not mean to vent.  I apologize.

This is my last question here. Did he use the loan money as he said, to fix the house?

Nowhere near it.  He borrowed $186,000 and did about $25,000 in repairs to the house.  

[Carnut]

Yes, TCUM, you are right on all counts.  I have bailed him out many times because he was always nice to my mother.  Perhaps he was a better con artist than I knew but he did help her immensely and I felt like I could give him the land and it would give him something to have some pride in, something to care for and he had quit drinking a few years ago and was working regularly, but yes, I have bailed him out before and my DH tells me not this time, although he knows it will be up to me if I do.  I just wish I were not sentimentally attached to the land, where I rode horses, helped my grandmother garden.  My husband keeps telling me if you give someone a gift, you cut the ribbons to it and that means you let it go, because it is a gift and after you give it up, you have no voice and no choice in it, but it hurts.

Well, now did you give the land as a gift or did entrust it to someones care?

Seems to me you think you trusted it to his care and didn't really think you were giving it to him.

Well, I did "really gift him" in a way sotaspeak.  I deeded him half the land but there is a house on it (small house that was where my grandparents moved to after they were older and could not care for themselves and he lived there near my mother and helped care for her, while living in the house.  I deeded him that land (verbal agreement) under the conditions that he would live there, fix the house up as he had planned to do and take care of some horses that my brother and I owned at one time but have subsequently sold.  He did that for about 4-5 years and it was not that big a deal.  He actually enjoyed the horses but we felt it was too much to ask of him so we sold the horses and he had planted gardens (vegetables and flowers) and was really caring for it and then he got a loan to do more work on the house.  Did not repay the loan.  How could he not do that when he had no rent, no bills except a car payment.  Sheesh.  I need to go let it go.  I did not mean to vent.  I apologize.

Ok, round here that woulda been on paper as a 'contract for deed' so to speak, when the contract stipulations were met he would receive the deed.

If you were liable for any of the loan on the property I'd probably lean to trying to pay off the loan and kickout the ner do well and be happy with the bought back property even at inflated price.

If you have no liablity, then like DH says, let it go and remember the good times.

[Tylergal]

I really have no liability.  I guess I am just kicking myself and recalling how many times I have been so gullible, even when I knew he was past due back in the fall, and he told me he was getting a bonus at work and would catch it up among other lies about the reasons he had not paid it.  

It's just "buyers remorse," Carnut.  Thank you.  I guess there is no fool like an old fool.

[Carnut]

I really have no liability.  I guess I am just kicking myself and recalling how many times I have been so gullible, even when I knew he was past due back in the fall, and he told me he was getting a bonus at work and would catch it up among other lies about the reasons he had not paid it.  

It's just "buyers remorse," Carnut.  Thank you.  I guess there is no fool like an old fool.

Heh,heh, been there, done that, oh if only I had the money back.

[Carnut]

You all are kinda making me think I'm better off staying single.

[crazybabyborg]

I really have no liability.  I guess I am just kicking myself and recalling how many times I have been so gullible, even when I knew he was past due back in the fall, and he told me he was getting a bonus at work and would catch it up among other lies about the reasons he had not paid it.  

It's just "buyers remorse," Carnut.  Thank you.  I guess there is no fool like an old fool.

NO!!!
Tyler, I've spent a long time beating myself up for stupidity. We will learn from these experiences, but we were NOT wrong, or stupid. We were just functioning on a higher level than those we were dealing with. Our ethics were higher, our morals were better.

And, now we know that when an ethical person deals with an unethical one, the unethical one always has an advantage!

[Tylergal]

CBB, your dilemma is much worse than mine.  Darling, I am so sorry about all that your ex put you through.  You have a broken financial situation and a broken heart.  That is even worse.  

I so hope everything for you will turn out wonderfully and I will pray for you and Sb, my monkey friends.  Now it's another year coming up and I am not going to look back.  This is the first time I have ever, ever mentioned this to anyone except family members and even my kids have not been told.

[Tylergal]

I really have no liability.  I guess I am just kicking myself and recalling how many times I have been so gullible, even when I knew he was past due back in the fall, and he told me he was getting a bonus at work and would catch it up among other lies about the reasons he had not paid it.  

It's just "buyers remorse," Carnut.  Thank you.  I guess there is no fool like an old fool.

NO!!!
Tyler, I've spent a long time beating myself up for stupidity. We will learn from these experiences, but we were NOT wrong, or stupid. We were just functioning on a higher level than those we were dealing with. Our ethics were higher, our morals were better.

And, now we know that when an ethical person deals with an unethical one, the unethical one always has an advantage!

You are so wise to see it that way and I know that you are exactly right.

[crazybabyborg]

You all are kinda making me think I'm better off staying single.

That's where I am.

I'm ok, Tyler and I'm taking it a day at a time. I do know how it feels to have trust betrayed, and it enrages me to know that so do you! I'm so sorry!

[Elaine]

Nowhere near it.  He borrowed $186,000 and did about $25,000 in repairs to the house.  

That is why he does not care about paying it back, saddly. All that money was used for something, HE enjoyed, and sadly he didn't care enough about any repercussions, such as that when the loan defaulted the house would be lost. And that people {such as yourself ) would be hurt. Something has him on the wrong path and it isn't a good one ( I am speaking from experience here ) I have an addict/alcoholic in my family, been there and done that, do NOT want this person to die or end up homeless etc. Yes, I have lost things that cannot be replaced and the thing that bothers me the most, now that I have gotten over the financial losses...is why? Why couldn;t I help this person change? A female none the less. You have a decision to make, I pray that you will come to the best decision!!

[tcumom]

Tyler and CBB ~ I wish I were as well-spoken as you both ~ with that said, you BOTH have such good, kind hearts that you were willing to help out ex-husband (CBB) and relative (Tyler) where many others would not have been so trusting and willing to give another chance.  You can look in the mirror and know that you did all you could, and went the extra mile to help....hopefully, others will learn from the example you've set......having faith and trust in others.

[Elaine]

I really have no liability.  I guess I am just kicking myself and recalling how many times I have been so gullible, even when I knew he was past due back in the fall, and he told me he was getting a bonus at work and would catch it up among other lies about the reasons he had not paid it.  

It's just "buyers remorse," Carnut.  Thank you.  I guess there is no fool like an old fool.

Heh,heh, been there, done that, oh if only I had the money back.

You too huh?And CBB is still going through it. Why oh why do we all get a turn?

[Tylergal]

Oh, we are all going to land feet first soon.  Everything will be in the past and 2007 is going to bring us great opportunities and we will help Beth see her way through this and hopefully get a conviction of those responsible for torturing and murdering Natalee.  I am sure Beth has probably lost so much financially and she probably never looks at the financial end as she has lost so much more and to think what she has lost is all the fault of three ugly, trashy PIMPS.

[Tylergal]

Tyler and CBB ~ I wish I were as well-spoken as you both ~ with that said, you BOTH have such good, kind hearts that you were willing to help out ex-husband (CBB) and relative (Tyler) where many others would not have been so trusting and willing to give another chance.  You can look in the mirror and know that you did all you could, and went the extra mile to help....hopefully, others will learn from the example you've set......having faith and trust in others.

You are so sweet, TCUM and I appreciate every word you post here, and wish you posted more often.

[crazybabyborg]

Oh, we are all going to land feet first soon.  Everything will be in the past and 2007 is going to bring us great opportunities and we will help Beth see her way through this and hopefully get a conviction of those responsible for torturing and murdering Natalee.  I am sure Beth has probably lost so much financially and she probably never looks at the financial end as she has lost so much more and to think what she has lost is all the fault of three ugly, trashy PIMPS.

Well said!   Moving forward is what it's all about!

and thanks, Elaine and tcu!