Amnesty, Immigration Reform, and the Bill

[WhiskeyGirl]

The text of the immigration bill has been made available here -

story - http://www.valleycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=390936

download - http://www.valleycentral.com/uploadedfiles/kgbt/News/Stories/HR-4321-Immigration.pdf

From page 410 of this bill -

11 (c) PROOF OF ELIGIBILITY.—
12 (1) IN GENERAL.—An alien may establish that
13 the alien meets the requirement of section 101(a)(1)
14 or 103(a)(1) through government employment
15 records or records supplied by employers or collec
16 tive bargaining organizations, and other reliable doc
17 umentation as the alien may provide. The Secretary
18 shall establish special procedures to properly credit
19 work in cases in which an alien was employed under
20 an assumed name.

How scary is it that they can use union records to qualify?  They can use documentation from assumed names?

What about atoning for using false identities?

Does paying union dues, without proof of work mean you are were actually in the US?  I wonder how many will have 'paid' dues from outside the US?

What about those media reports of Social Security numbers being used by hundreds of illegal people or fraud folks?  Isn't it possible that Social Security records may be misleading?

How many will use the same same assumed name records?

There is also some kind of 'Social Security' adjustment scheme.

If they're gathering income information, I didn't see anything about paying back the state for welfare benefits you may have gotten for your family.

What if some of these folks really didn't qualify for benefits when their 'wages' are taken into consideration?

What it your only income is welfare? 

[WhiskeyGirl]

There is also this nifty section starting on page 142 -

10 SEC. 157. PROTECTION OF COMMUNITY-BASED ORGANIZA
11 TIONS, FAITH-BASED ORGANIZATIONS AND
12 OTHER INSTITUTIONS.
13 (a) IN GENERAL.—The Secretary shall issue regula
14 tions requiring officials of the Department of Homeland
15 Security to—
16 (1) prohibit the apprehension of persons on the
17 premises or in the immediate vicinity of—
18 (A) a childcare provider;
19 (B) a school;
20 (C) a legal-service provider;
21 (D) a Federal court or State court pro
22 ceeding;
23 (E) an administrative proceeding;
24 (F) a funeral home;
25 (G) a cemetery;

143

1 (H) a college, university, or community
2 college;
3 (I) a victim services agency;
4 (J) a social service agency;
5 (K) a hospital or emergency care center;
6 (L) a health care clinic;
7 (M) a place of worship;
8 (N) a day care center;
9 (O) a head start center;
10 (P) a school bus stop;
11 (Q) a recreation center;
12 (R) a mental health facility; and
13 (S) a community center; and
14 (2) tightly control investigative operations at
15 the locations described in paragraph (1).
16 (b) NOTICE TO APPEAR.—The Secretary shall amend
17 the Notice to Appear form to include a statement that no
18 immigration enforcement activity was undertaken in any
19 of the locations described in subsection (a)(1).

Does this mean you can't pick them up, arrest them, or investigate illegal aliens at any of these places?

A get out of jail and investigation card?

Wouldn't it be nice if this applied to citizens and those here legally?

I am under the impression if you're a naughty citizen or here legally and you do bad things, they are allowed to investigate you at all these kinds of places AND arrest you to.

Why do illegal aliens get the gold mine?  Teflon people?

Citizens get the shaft?

Does the home religious shrine room or corner make the home or workplace off limits too if you're an illegal alien?

[WhiskeyGirl]

Starting on page 208 -

10 ‘‘(3) USE OF LABOR THROUGH CONTRACT.—An
11 employer who uses a contract, subcontract, or ex
12 change entered into, renegotiated, or extended after
13 the date of the enactment of this Act to obtain the
14 labor of an alien in the United States knowing or
15 with reckless disregard that the alien is an unau
16 thorized alien with respect to performing such labor,
17 shall be considered to have hired the alien for em
18 ployment in the United States in violation of para
19 graph (1)(A).
20 ‘‘(4) TREATMENT OF DOCUMENTATION FOR
21 CERTAIN EMPLOYEES.—
22 ‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—For purposes of this
23 section, if—
24 ‘‘(i) an individual is a member of a
25 collective-bargaining unit and is employed,

209

1 under a collective bargaining agreement
2 entered into between one or more employee
3 organizations and an association of two or
4 more employers, by an employer that is a
5 member of such association; and
6 ‘‘(ii) within the period specified in
7 subparagraph (B), another employer that
8 is a member of the association (or an
9 agent of such association on behalf of the
10 employer) has complied with the require
11 ments of subsection (b) of this section with
12 respect to the employment of the indi
13 vidual, the subsequent employer shall be
14 deemed to have complied with the require
15 ments of subsection (b) of this section with
16 respect to the hiring of the employee and
17 shall not be liable for civil penalties de
18 scribed in subsection (d)(4) of this section.

What does this mean?  If you hire someone through a temp agency you might be a criminal if they are an illegal alien?  How does an honest employer make that decision? 

Do all employers get copies of the hiring paperwork from temp agencies?  Or, do they trust that the temp agency has dotted the I's and crossed the t's?

There seems to be a loop hole for those companies that hire temp labor from unions...

Will someone double check and send the union to jail, or fine the union if they have illegal aliens on the books?

Unionized temp workers?

[WhiskeyGirl]

There is also this tidbit from page 253 -

253
1 ‘‘(i) Use of testers to check if employ
2 ers are using E-Verify as outlined in the
3 Memorandum of Understanding between
4 employers and the Department of Home
5 land Security and the Social Security Ad
6 ministration, including if employers are
7 misusing the system to prescreen job appli
8 cants, if employers are giving proper notifi
9 cation to employees’ regarding tentative
10 non-confirmations, and if employers are
11 taking adverse actions against workers
12 based upon tentative non-confirmations.
13 ‘‘(ii) Random audits of employers to
14 confirm that employers are using the sys
15 tem as outlined in the Memorandum of
16 Understanding and in a manner consistent
17 with civil rights and civil liberties protec
18 tions.

What about employers that may prescreen workers from temporary agencies?

Isn't it possible that employers have concerns about the identity of prospective employees?

Will these prescreeners now be criminals?

Unless...they use a union organization?

As a citizen, do I get to check the E-Verify records to see how many times my Social Security number has been run through that thing? 

Maybe I can collect for unauthorized snooping?

How well does the government plan to make this rule known to employers? 

[WhiskeyGirl]

Why give the unions or collective bargaining units any preference?  iirc, their base is immigrants, illegal and legal, and a few citizens. 

Why shouldn't everyone have equal responsibility for verifying citizenship? 

Why give amnesty to people who broke the law, used false identities (perhaps more than one, and for years)?

Why isn't the government 'nudging' these people to return to their country of origin?  Return to their homeland? 

[WhiskeyGirl]

Why aren't these illegal aliens paying back welfare, housing, food stamp and other public monies they may have received while working in this country under various names?

Somehow, if citizens took welfare and lied about working or circumvented the income verifications (by any means) I think they would go to jail or have to pay it back.

What's wrong in this country when people who break the law get the gold mine of public benefits and citizens get the shaft?

[WhiskeyGirl]

The Construction Subcontractors and Illegal Aliens

Enforcement first

Let’s consider an immigration bill after we can see that enforcement to stop illegal immigration is working. (See: "House Dems unveil immigration bill," Dec. 16) And I am not talking about border control. Company owners should be fined and put in jail for providing jobs to those here illegally.

...

In addition to employing 23 people, my husband and I are building a house. I called 19 roofing/framing companies before I found one that treats its work crew as employees instead of "subcontractors." IRS rules are crystal clear on the difference, yet here are 19 companies that don’t pay Social Security or unemployment taxes on their "subs." Nor do they complete an I-9 that verifies identification, the first step in ensuring legality to work.

Be assured that enforcement is going to drive up prices, but we all have to stop turning a blind eye or stop griping about the problem. I suggest that when your North Texas readers hire a company to provide services related to their homes, they should ask the company owner if they issue W-2s (employees) or 1099s (subcontractors) at year’s end. It could be a helpful step in limiting illegal immigration.

http://www.star-telegram.com/242/story/1839325.html

Does the bill give a free pass to those receiving a 1099?  No E-Verify?

Will the government start checking up on those folks who get 1099's and ensure that they are here legally?

E-Verify for 1099s?

I wonder if the government gets a no-match file for Social Security Numbers / TINs and the 1099 info form employers?

Anyone check to see if construction companies or others actually send their 1099 data to the IRS?

Does the IRS ever crossreference the 1099 files to the Social Security database?

How many 1099s issued ever result in rax payments and tax filings?

Is this the scam some think happens to the stimulus and budget construction projects? 

Winners of the contracts issue 1099s instead of W-2s?

No I-9s required for 1099s?

And, government HAS to pay union rates, few if any paying taxes on the 1099s?

What happened to the big return on to the treasury Nancy talked about?

That's why we have to keep building to keep illegal aliens employed?

[WhiskeyGirl]

If unions include illegal aliens as members, and companies that hire through unions or 'collective bargain units' are given a pass...

It seem like the unions or collective bargain units may circumvent I-9, E-Verify, and other measures to prevent identity fraud, theft, and abuse.

Unions and collective bargaining units are like pimps? 

And the amnesty bill gives them special favors?

[WhiskeyGirl]

Some point the finger at military subcontractors...

Why isn't more being done to ensure that construction and other government subcontractors use I-9s, E-Verify, and that 1099s actually lead to tax payments?

It seems like someone could make new and ficticious identities on an ongoing basis using the subcontractor route and never pay taxes.

Illegal aliens get subcontractor jobs for life?  Never pay income, Social Security or other taxes?

[WhiskeyGirl]

Those tax dollars and donations collected from our community need to be used here to strengthen this economy, not shipped out of town or out of state to benefit some other place. When there is a choice to spend our own money regionally, it behooves us to make sure we take care of our own, and keep our communities strong.

Local merchants also prosper from the multiplier effect, by keeping our money here. The city and county tax revenues will also increase by the spending of our dollars locally.

As representatives of the construction industry, we encourage owners and agencies with big projects to keep this in mind, by making good choices for themselves and our community.

When tax money and donated funds are spent without this sensitivity, we lose control of the true potential to achieve excellence in the building of our community.

http://www.lompocrecord.com/news/opinion/editorial/article_b568d80e-ead0-11de-ab24-001cc4c002e0.html

This is the problem with the stimulus and other wasteful spending.  It doesn't benefit anyone in the community.

No one seems to know where the money goes, who benefits, and if anyone pays taxes.

Money pi$$ed into the wind.

Keep money local, do not cycle it through Washington.  Washington is making hugh debts and nothing is being returned to the community.

jmho

[WhiskeyGirl]

This week, the Frederick County Commissioners continued to tackle illegal immigration by passing new regulations intended to stop county contractors from employing illegal immigrants.

Under that process, any bidders on a large project would have to certify that they and their subcontractors will not knowingly employ illegal immigrants.

http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/news/reporters_notebooks_display.htm?StoryID=99141

Somehow, self certification seems like a hugh loophole for illegal aliens and other tax avoiders, including both employers and employees.

I wonder if contractors are ever checked to see how many 1099s they issue and file with the IRS? 

How many 1099s at the IRS actually match up with real people?

What is the number of 1099s that never pay taxes, and don't seem to have a match with the SS# or TIN?

[WhiskeyGirl]

"Fewer illegal immigrants arrested at Fort Lee"

FORT LEE -- The number of illegal immigrants arrested while attempting to enter Fort Lee has dropped significantly this year, despite a boom in construction at the Army installation.

To date this year, 24 undocumented immigrants have been arrested at base identification checkpoints, including four painters who tried to sneak onto the base in October by hiding under tarps inside a van, Fort Lee officials said.

Another reason for the drop, however, could be that the installation did not have ID checkpoints in place for most of the year at the new Ordnance School Campus on state Route 144, where nine construction projects were active this year.

Until September, the campus was not gated, and construction workers entering the work sites there were not required to go through an ID screening process, Metzger said.

The arrests in the past three years mainly have been of construction workers with Latin American backgrounds, but they also have included Asians and people from other backgrounds, Metzger said.

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/article/FLEE23_20091122-222807/307371/

I wonder how many potential terrorists pass through the gates?

[WhiskeyGirl]

Posted by VaGentleman on November 23, 2009 at 4:20 pm
This paragraph from Investor’s Business Daily says it all about my “Obama Man-Love, “President Obama said he would change focus from nabbing illegals to punishing employers. The latter is done through I-9 paperwork audits, which are up 317% on the year. This gives the appearance of enforcement, but it also sets the stage for amnesty and a new crop of Democratic voters.“

For those interested in some light rather than more heat, the entire article may be found here: http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=513193

Seems like there should be some subcontractor/1099 checks and enforcement.

Posted by oneuser on November 23, 2009 at 8:47 am
Illegal aliens cost Virginia 1.7 Billion Dollars a Year! We can no longer afford to look the other way while these invaders suck the money out of our economy. I hope ICE is able to round them all up.
http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2009/06/12/illegal-aliens-cost-virginia-taxpayers-17-billion-annually

Wall St. bonuses in billions, how many billions for illegal aliens?

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/article/FLEE23_20091122-222807/307371/P10/

[WhiskeyGirl]

The second group is in the underground economy. It includes day laborers or employees whose employers classify them as independent subcontractors. Most are paid in cash and few pay any kind of payroll tax. They also work without workmen's compensation and when injured, find their way to our emergency rooms. They do not have I-9s identifying them, nor do they enjoy the protection of our country's wage and hour laws...

more here - http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/6767065.html

Is this why the stimulus, and all the jobs bills are doing nothing for Main Street?  It's a pass through to illegal aliens?

No jobs for citizens, those here legally, and those issued a W-2. 

Congress just passed another illegal alien pass through spending / taxing / debt bill?

Nothing for Main Street?  Everything for illegal aliens, Wall Street, and rich global countries/individuals/businesses?

When will Congress and Obama be on the side of Main Street?

Hmmm...it's the anti-American administration...

[WhiskeyGirl]

How far do I have to go to certify that a subcontractor has given me correct information for their 1099?

I run a roofing business and pay all of my workers by 1099. Many of the people that work for me are mexican and I can't be completely sure they are legal. When I issue them a W-9 to get their information for any 1099 I will issue, how far do I need to go to certify that the information they have furnished is legitimate? I'm sure that I have issued 1099's with phony social security numbers. How far do I have to go to certify that they are giving me the correct information to cover myself? If you have an answer please provide some backup.
3 days ago

Best Answer - Chosen by Asker
You are in a rock and a hard place.

You can't knowingly hire someone as a contractor who does not have the right to work.

Clearly if you give them a W-9 and it comes back with the SSN blank or a number that starts with a 9, you will know they don't have a valid SSN.

You can voluntarily sign up for the TIN matching program. It doesn't match much--I've seen undocumented workers use their 2-year old child's SSN to work and file (and then wonder why they don't qualify for EIC).

http://www.irs.gov/govt/tribes/article/0,,id=185465,00.html

You will also know if the IRS starts sending you letters saying the SSN is unassigned or belongs to someone with a different last name.

http://www.irs.gov/govt/tribes/article/0,,id=185465,00.html

If the person no longer works for you, the solution at that time is simple, never hire them again. If you happen to owe them money, you withhold 30% and send it in for them.

(Even with the 30% withholding, you can't keep hiring them for future jobs.)

And absolutely, you do NOT set up the one US guy you hired by having him be the only one to sign a w-9 and then ask him to subcontract to the Mexican aliens--this is just passing the buck and should get you fined when you get caught.
3 days ago

If they really are independent contractors, as defined by the law, not by you, then you do not have to verify the information; you just need to have them give you a completed and signed Form W-9.

However, if they meet the legal definition of employees, then you must obtain the documentation required by Form I-9 (including proof of identity and proof of that they are not illegal aliens) and must not pay them "by 1099". (Using a 1099 for an employee is illegal; they must receive a W-2 instead.)
3 days ago

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091215140549AA9tIGC

Would the bill circumvent any immigration checks for subcontracts?

Would this encourage more illegal aliens to join unions? 

Come and stay in this country illegally?

What responsibility do the unions/bargaining units have to ensure that they fill jobs with people here legally?

[WhiskeyGirl]

"Verizon subcontractor gets prison time for hiring illegal immigrants"

“Mr. Buttery is a small potato,” Yates said. “There are millions of Americans committing crimes by hiring illegal aliens and we turn the other way.”

...

Metcalfe said the Buttery operation grossed $1.8 million in about four years of employing illegal immigrants and in that time the company paid no Social Security or Medicare taxes.

The government is seeking $250,000 in restitution, but Yates informed the court that Buttery is broke.

The Buttery company hired dozens of illegal immigrants to dig ditches for Verizon’s fiber-optic lines. Workers were paid $100 per day for a 12-hour shift minus $60 a week for housing and utilities, according to court records. Some said they were put up in a house off Oceana Boulevard in Virginia Beach.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1982244/posts

To: csvset
Woah! I worked for SBC for 30 years and there will be NO contractors if this holds up. Finally a judge worth keeping.

To: csvset
We need more judges like this. It won’t take many convictions to make the other employers take notice. I don’t understand why the Assistant U.S. Attorney decided not to indict him on money laundering and tax evasion charges. I guess there are thousands of U.S. Attorney’s selecting which crimes to prosecute and we turn the other way.

No jobs for Americans and those here legally.