TAMMI AND JACK SMITHNANCY GRACE
New Developments in Missing Baby Gabriel Case
Aired January 6, 2010 - 20:00:00 ET
PART ONEJack and Tammi, thank you for being with us. First to you, Jack Smith.
JACK SMITH, PLANNED TO ADOPT MISSING BABY: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m very disturbed. I`m disturbed about why -- why didn`t she just go ahead and give you the baby? Why give the baby to some people she just met at some public park, for Pete`s sake? Jack Smith, what do you think?
JACK SMITH: Well, you know, again, we don`t know what`s in her mind. And I would love to think I know what`s in her mind, but I don`t. If I did, baby Gabriel would be with us and back here in Arizona. The reason she didn`t give him to us is because the father was saying he wasn`t going to do that. And this is the first time we had had a chance to be with -- to talk with the father. So he was saying he wasn`t going to do it. So that basically left her with no alternative but to go...
TAMMI PETERS SMITH, PLANNED TO ADOPT MISSING BABY: In her mind.
JACK SMITH: ... in her mind, but to go.
GRACE: Tammi Smith, did she ever want money from you guys?
TAMMI SMITH: Never once did she ask for anything -- not a ride, not a meal, not to borrow a quarter, nothing.
GRACE: Do you think, Tammi, that she is capable of killing this baby?
TAMMI SMITH: You know, from what I know of her, I don`t believe so. But I`ve only known her maybe three or four weeks.
PART TWOGRACE: We are taking your calls live. I want to go back to Jack and Tammi Smith, the Arizona couple that had planned to adopt baby Gabriel. Thank you for being with us.
JACK SMITH: You`re welcome.
GRACE: Have you spoken to her since she has been behind bars, Mr. Smith?
JACK SMITH: We did. We talked to her, and we had the local channel here tape it so that there was no questions about what was said and what was done and how it was done.
GRACE: What did you learn?
JACK SMITH: Well, one thing we learned is where the car was because it was right after that up-feed or upload that -- it`s our understanding that right after the upload, we did find out where the car was. So they were able to find the car after we did the interview. Nobody said that it was attributed necessarily to that, but it was -- they found it at 4:00 o`clock, and we were -- did the interview at 2:00, and then they immediately uploaded it. So that came from it.
To be honest with you, we had a list of questions -- the questions, you know, we wanted to -- the main question that we wanted, obviously, was, Where is Gabriel? Where is this little sweet, wonderful baby? And at that point, she said that she met a couple in the park. And I do have the name of the park (INAUDIBLE) we didn`t know this until the afternoon. It`s Raymond Russell Park.
GRACE: Raymond Russell Park? So she remembered that, but she didn`t remember...
JACK SMITH: No, no.
GRACE: She didn`t remember that?
JACK SMITH: Forgive me. No, this comes from -- and I don`t mean to go off track here, but...
GRACE: It`s OK.
JACK SMITH: ... but we have -- we have focused our life for the last few days since all this happened. We`re on the phone all day, trying to find out as much information. We have contacts. We have sources. Ain`t that cool? We have sources in San Antonio with a radio station and -- radio and telephone stations there.
GRACE: So you figured out it was Raymond Russell Park.
JACK SMITH: Raymond Russell Park is where -- where they -- and we also found out through that source that when she bought the bus ticket, she bought it as Elizabeth Jones.
GRACE: Is it true, Ms. Smith, that you learned she checked in and paid for the hotel room a week ahead of time?
TAMMI SMITH: Yes. She told me that she was paid up until Sunday. And we had her basically ready to come back. Sunday morning, she was going to come back. We had offered to help her with an attorney so that she could keep the custody and the custody would not go to the father.
GRACE: And then out of the blue, she just takes off?
TAMMI SMITH: Yes.
GRACE: Where do you think she got the money, Ms. Smith, to buy the ticket? It`s about 150 bucks a ticket, plus the gas she needed to get from Tempe down to San Antonio.
TAMMI SMITH: All I know is that a few days prior to her leaving, she had told me she had -- we saw her dogs. She had two Yorkies. And she sold the two dogs for $500. She rented a room to her roommate for $400 cash, and he confirmed that. And then I believe she got her last -- what is it called?
JACK SMITH: Unemployment.
TAMMI SMITH: Unemployment check. And she did have -- she did have WIC for the baby, for all his food.
PART THREEGRACE: We are taking your calls live. I`m going to unleash the lawyers, John Burris and Daniel Horowitz, in just one moment. But first, back to Jack Smith and Tammi Smith, the couple that had planned to adopt baby Gabriel.
What is giving me a glimmer of hope, Tammi Smith, is that this is very similar to the way that she met you.
TAMMI SMITH: It is. It`s almost exact.
GRACE: What happened?
TAMMI SMITH: I met her in an airport. She was depressed, crying. She -- her face was drooped down. Instead of holding the baby here, the baby was down here. And I just knew the second I saw her, there is something wrong there. And she said -- I sat down. She said something, and I don`t remember what it was. This was seven months ago. And I just immediately -- What do you want to do with your baby, you know? And we -- it went on from there.
GRACE: And from there, she was willing to just give you the baby?
TAMMI SMITH: Well, no, not back then. Yes, I did hold the baby in the airport. I held the baby in the plane ride once we got up in the air. She brought me the baby to hold. And then when we were about to descend back down to the ground, she came back and got the baby again. Did not hear from her again once we helped her to her car, once we got back to Arizona from the plane. Didn`t hear from her again until December 8th around 9:00 or 10:00 o`clock at night, saying, Do you still want to adopt him?
GRACE: So this is so similar to what she`s saying happened to baby Gabriel. She meets this couple in a public park, and they were kind and caring and she just gave them the baby. Why do you believe, Mr. Smith, she wanted to give away the baby?
JACK SMITH: You know -- and this is something that -- and I would like to interject here, if it`s OK. We are for the finding of this baby. We are not on a side. But I think that she`s looking at things through non-normal eyes. Our normal eyes say, That`s crazy. Non-normal eyes say, It happens every day. You give your child -- you give your child to a stranger, if you`re going to adopt -- but albeit, there`s a lot that goes on before the adoption papers happen. So that`s my guess.
PART FOUR(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TAMMI PETERS SMITH, PLANNED TO ADOPT BABY GABRIEL: The main thing is that she wanted him with a good family that loved him and that would actually take care of him.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Tammi Smith remembers the day almost eight months ago she met Elizabeth and Gabriel Johnson.
T. SMITH: And I just could read it in her face that she did not want to be a mother.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And Tammi says the father wasn`t around and when he was.
T. SMITH: Yes, there were a lot of threats and a lot of things, underhanded things, that were done. Because of his record and because of what the things he had done to her and the baby, there was no way she was going to give him that baby.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Tammi says months went by then last month she received a call from Elizabeth.
T. SMITH: She finally called and said, are you ready to adopt him?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The two parties signed legal guardianship papers and Gabriel moved in with the Smiths.
JACK SMITH, PLANNED TO ADOPT BABY GABRIEL: We fell in love with him.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: But the baby`s dad wouldn`t sign guardianship or adoption papers. Still, Gabriel quickly became part of the Smith family, visiting Santa, playing with 4-year-old Hannah.
Then, December 18th, Elizabeth picked up her son to visit his father. Little did the Smiths know, the two were taking off to San Antonio.
T. SMITH: We were trying so desperately to get her back here. And every time she was ready to come back, she would get a phone call threatening her.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The Smiths believe the baby is safe and that his mother, now behind bars, will never say where.
T. SMITH: She loved that baby enough that I believe, I believe, that she would probably stay in jail the rest of her life to make sure he was safe from the person that she wants to keep him from.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PART FIVEGRACE: I do find it very disturbing that the mother gave the baby away to a couple she had met 20 minutes before in a public park. That`s my focus. All right? Now, speaking of the Smiths, I want to go back to Jack and Tammi Smith.
Two questions. Number one, I think that it would be crucial, since you were around her, you spent time with her and the baby, you`ve spoken to her since she`s been behind bars. What was her state of mind when you spoke to her last, Miss Smith?
T. SMITH: I`m sorry. That wasn`t me -- what was her state of mind when I spoke to her yesterday?
GRACE: Right.
T. SMITH: You know, to be honest with you, she sounded a little bit cheery. Whenever she was dealing with the whole custody issue, she was not cheery, she was very depressed and distraught. It seems as though she seemed happier and safer being in jail than she did out of jail and going through this whole custody issue.
GRACE: Mr. Smith, when you were dealing with her about adopting baby Gabriel, what was her state of mind at that point?
J. SMITH: You know, we -- honestly we had some concerns. I mean, again, we`re looking at -- as I mentioned earlier, we`re looking through normal eyes. It feels -- it felt a little odd, but you know what, we felt like that we could be helping this baby also if this mother did have any kind of potential emotional problems.
So we were basically -- our theory at that point was we are a baby- sitter. Because we understand the whole principle. We`ve adopted -- Hannah is adopted. So we know the process. We -- you know, we got Hannah in our house at 4 months old and the adoption wasn`t final until 2 -- until she was 2.
GRACE: Let me ask you, guys, something. You have come forward and been very forthright. What, if anything, do you have to gain from coming forward, Miss Smith? I mean, you did not have to put yourself in the public eye at all, but you have. Why?
T. SMITH: And it`s been extremely exhausting. I`ve only had a couple of hours` sleep since yesterday. We`re doing this because we fell in love with this baby. We have nothing to gain except for the fact that we know that we have gotten to the point where we kind of know Elizabeth`s mentality from getting to know her over the past few weeks and we believe we can help find this baby and return -- or help to return him to his family.
GRACE: We`re taking your calls, everybody. To Tammy in Nevada, hi, Tammy.
TAMMY, CALLER FROM NEVADA: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, dear, what`s your question?
TAMMY: Listen, I just want to tell you I love your show. I never miss it. I`ve watched you from the old days.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: Thank you.
TAMMY: I also want to thank you and tell you how much I appreciate your dedication to help seek the truth for the innocent out there.
GRACE: Thank you.
TAMMY: I was wondering, I know you talked about cameras at the station, but do you know if there were any at the Motel 6 or the park, perhaps? And my heart goes out to everybody involved in this and I just pray that this is not another Casey Anthony story.
I mean, you know, no matter what.
GRACE: I`ve been thinking the same thing, Tammy in Nevada.
TAMMY: Yes. And no matter what.
GRACE: I mean her answers are so vague and ambiguous. Exactly the way tot mom`s were
PART SIXBack to Jack and Tammi Smith.
Jack Smith, isn`t it true that when she was dealing with you guys, she didn`t even want to know where you lived? She didn`t want to know anything about you.
J. SMITH: No, not -- she didn`t because we actually invited her over. Don`t you want to come and see where his room would be? And don`t you want to come and see where his play area would be? And she said, no, I don`t want to know where you live.
GRACE: What was her reason?
J. SMITH: Because in her mind that -- well, in her mind that was the -- that was a closed adoption. Again, I can`t think -- I can`t think like her. I wish I could and we`d find the baby, but -- that`s my only reasoning is that she wanted a closed adoption. She wanted this part of her life and wanted to go -- I don`t understand that. My maternal.
GRACE: But that was the same -- it`s almost like a script that she`s reading from the. The very same thing she did with them is basically what she did with you. She didn`t want to know anything about you, she didn`t want to know your address, nothing. She just wanted it to be a done deal to have the baby in a happy family.
Good-bye, baby Gabriel.
J. SMITH: It don`t make sense to us. And that`s the reason we kept hanging on to her and trying to better understand her because it didn`t make any se. But you know what? We understand private adoptions happen every day, and, you know -- so I don`t believe.
GRACE: Right.
J. SMITH: You know what I`m saying. Hopefully.
GRACE: Yes. That she -- if this is true, that she thought she was doing anything wrong. I just pray to God in heaven that it is true and the baby is alive tonight.
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