Lively Case Discussion #481 6/27/2006

[kuoka]

I guess nothing really happened on Greta and that's why you are talking about raccoons.

Nothing going on - waiting for some action from NY Judge.

Just give some people a chance to catch up. Sheesh. Greta aired the uncut video of Joran Vader SLOP being served papers when he came out of customs in NY. It also showed how Dieter was pushed by the ABC producer and how he defended himself.

[kuoka]

Does anyone except me keep getting booted out?

Should I take this personally?  

I don't but no.    Email me with the symptoms and I can see if I can help.

[San]

I guess nothing really happened on Greta and that's why you are talking about raccoons.

Nothing going on - waiting for some action from NY Judge.

Just give some people a chance to catch up. Sheesh. Greta aired the uncut video of Joran Vader SLOP being served papers when he came out of customs in NY. It also showed how Dieter was pushed by the ABC producer and how he defended himself.

That producer should have known better than stepping in front of Bo and trying to stop him.  If I remember correctly Bo said this is official business.

[AZLady]

Buckeye, in response to the ideas about the HI dropoff lie, I believe that Joran and Deepak made up the HI dropoff because that was the modus operandi all the 20 times before that nothing happened.  Their game was to drug a girl at C&C's, and get her into a car before she passed out cold.  They then gang raped at will, as she was unconscious for several hours.  As dawn approached and the girl started to regain consciousness, they dropped her off near her hotel.  She wandered back to her room, went home that day, and that was that.  It had worked in the past, and so they created the lie based on past behavior.

[BTgirl]

Does anyone except me keep getting booted out?

Should I take this personally?  

I don't but no.    Email me with the symptoms and I can see if I can help.

Hello,

Your lesson for today is in the mail.

[BTgirl]

Monkeys,

I must have been a VERY good girl.

Our computer guy here at work just walked into my office a few minutes ago and brought me the most beautiful new flat-screen monitor. And it's HUGE!

I don't know if this is a concession to my old age or not, but I am a very happy girlie this afternoon!

[Peaches]

Buckeye, in response to the ideas about the HI dropoff lie, I believe that Joran and Deepak made up the HI dropoff because that was the modus operandi all the 20 times before that nothing happened.  Their game was to drug a girl at C&C's, and get her into a car before she passed out cold.  They then gang raped at will, as she was unconscious for several hours.  As dawn approached and the girl started to regain consciousness, they dropped her off near her hotel.  She wandered back to her room, went home that day, and that was that.  It had worked in the past, and so they created the lie based on past behavior.

Exactly.  These boys are nothing if not creatures of habit.  Heavy on the creature.

[Peaches]

Monkeys,

I must have been a VERY good girl.

Our computer guy here at work just walked into my office a few minutes ago and brought me the most beautiful new flat-screen monitor. And it's HUGE!

I don't know if this is a concession to my old age or not, but I am a very happy girlie this afternoon!

I'm jealous.

[thirdstrike]

Hello everyone!  

[Peaches]

Hi Third.  How's are ya?

[AZLady]

Joran and Deepak most likely didn't think the cameras would be a problem.  First, the police on Aruba move slowly, if at all, and these kids treat them as if they are keystone cops.  Second, GVC's Dad's security company installed and serviced the cameras.  Third, they could likely find someone to doctor or erase or simply lose the camera tape.  Joran and Deepak didn't plan ahead that far because they knew they had multiple options and dealt with issues as they arose.  Besides, they were practiced at fudging their stories and changing them.  It would not be a problem to say oops, I meant we dropped her here, out of camera range, not there in the line of the camera.   These guys didn't really plan this out in detail at the beginning because they didn't expect it to explode on them.  They had done this many times before and really didn't think one more girl would be a problem, even if she didn't show up.  Blame it on someone else--a beach bum, another tourist, anybody else.

[thirdstrike]

Buckeye, in response to the ideas about the HI dropoff lie, I believe that Joran and Deepak made up the HI dropoff because that was the modus operandi all the 20 times before that nothing happened.  Their game was to drug a girl at C&C's, and get her into a car before she passed out cold.  They then gang raped at will, as she was unconscious for several hours.  As dawn approached and the girl started to regain consciousness, they dropped her off near her hotel.  She wandered back to her room, went home that day, and that was that.  It had worked in the past, and so they created the lie based on past behavior.

Exactly.  These boys are nothing if not creatures of habit.  Heavy on the creature.

Yeah, but I believe the main reason for the lie was to throw the dogs off the scent...so to speak. They needed to divert attention as far away from the reality of the circumstances as possible.  So, like you said, they used their past history to their advantage.  And, it would have been 100% effective had the invetsigation stayed "in house".  Unfortunately for them, the eyes of the world begand to watch...

[blah]

Been reading around.  This was posted on scrux yesterday.  Thought it was good.


Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:02 am    Post subject:    

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I think it's significant that the HI lie was made up before they encountered the Twittys......in the first place it proves the lie was not made up due to being afraid AFTER Jug supposedly got angry in front of the VDS house.

In turn, this lie that Jug scared him, shows a willingness to 1. blame someone else, and 2. play the baby card while blaming someone else.

Where 2 is concerned, you don't see Joran being scared at any time thereafter. He was not scared in jail; he was cocky. He was not scared when abruptly confronted by that CA reporter; he was extremely calm. He was not scared of Greta nor of that ABC Primetime dude; he was a calm and a bit martryish. He was not scared ever at all except for his CLAIM to have been scared of Jug that one night that he claims made him tell the HI lie.....however, as we know too, according to his interview on Greta that story was made up before they arrived to face Jug.

What this suggests to me is that 2KJ or parts thereof, knew they did not leave her at the HI and didn't want to say where they really left her, which of course is what Joran says later on when he comes out with the beach story....he didn't want his parents to think he left a girl on the beach alone. So in fact, the HI story was made up out of fear of Joran's parents not out of fear of Jug, hence Joran is taking responsibility for the HI lie AND making it out of fear of his parents. Yet he goes on to blame fear of Jug?

Now my thoughts trickle down to this still ongoing blaming of Natalee's family for being angry and causing the lie. The truth probably is that all Joran wanted was a diversion from his own behavior that night....and I hardly think simply leaving a well girl on the beach would elicit such fear from a cocky cad like Joran comes across as. His 'I'm sorry I wasn't a good boy mommy and daddy' line is a joke! And it is my opinion that it screams Joran has his parents snowed big time.

But why say she was dropped at the HI if they knew she was not. They had to know the cameras were everywhere. They had to know all the cops had to do was check them and discover this lie right away. Yet, the cops did not check the tapes right away to see Natalee being returned to the HI so they could start looking eslewhere for her.....no, they arrested 2 men as if the story were true without checking it out first. ALE jumped in on the HI story like nobodies business! They did not do their jobs. And I have to wonder if it was not just J2K but also the cops who planned this HI lie diversion ahead of time.

actually, they did already know it was a lie.  But they went ahead and arrested the 2 security guards anyway.

[kuoka]

Hello,

Your lesson for today is in the mail.

Cowabunga! I can't wait to start my studies!! TY MOM!  

[thirdstrike]

Joran and Deepak most likely didn't think the cameras would be a problem.  First, the police on Aruba move slowly, if at all, and these kids treat them as if they are keystone cops.  Second, GVC's Dad's security company installed and serviced the cameras.  Third, they could likely find someone to doctor or erase or simply lose the camera tape.  Joran and Deepak didn't plan ahead that far because they knew they had multiple options and dealt with issues as they arose.  Besides, they were practiced at fudging their stories and changing them.  It would not be a problem to say oops, I meant we dropped her here, out of camera range, not there in the line of the camera.   These guys didn't really plan this out in detail at the beginning because they didn't expect it to explode on them.  They had done this many times before and really didn't think one more girl would be a problem, even if she didn't show up.  Blame it on someone else--a beach bum, another tourist, anybody else.

I don't think they were that smart.  I don't think they really thought anything through...especially the fact that they'd get "busted" for lying when no footage existed proving their "story".  Again, I truly believe these guys counted on the investigation remaining internal, and they'd have nothing to worry about...

I think people sometimes give them far too much credit in here for their intellect...

[AZLady]

Exactly.  These boys are nothing if not creatures of habit.  Heavy on the creature.

Yeah, but I believe the main reason for the lie was to throw the dogs off the scent...so to speak. They needed to divert attention as far away from the reality of the circumstances as possible.  So, like you said, they used their past history to their advantage.  And, it would have been 100% effective had the invetsigation stayed "in house".  Unfortunately for them, the eyes of the world begand to watch...

Absolutely agree.  Even though "something went wrong," they acted as if it had all gone exactly as it had in the past.  Ironic that their past behavior that they fell back upon was so unacceptable as to be labeled criminal by the Americans.  I mean, since when is drugging and gang raping considered normal behavior for teenaged boys?

[kuoka]

Monkeys,

I must have been a VERY good girl.

Our computer guy here at work just walked into my office a few minutes ago and brought me the most beautiful new flat-screen monitor. And it's HUGE!

I don't know if this is a concession to my old age or not, but I am a very happy girlie this afternoon!

Yowza! Congrats BT! You'll love it. I have two and I absolutely love em! Next time though, tell you IT people they could've gotten it at a discount from moi.    

[thirdstrike]

Been reading around.  This was posted on scrux yesterday.  Thought it was good.


Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:02 am    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
I think it's significant that the HI lie was made up before they encountered the Twittys......in the first place it proves the lie was not made up due to being afraid AFTER Jug supposedly got angry in front of the VDS house.

In turn, this lie that Jug scared him, shows a willingness to 1. blame someone else, and 2. play the baby card while blaming someone else.

Where 2 is concerned, you don't see Joran being scared at any time thereafter. He was not scared in jail; he was cocky. He was not scared when abruptly confronted by that CA reporter; he was extremely calm. He was not scared of Greta nor of that ABC Primetime dude; he was a calm and a bit martryish. He was not scared ever at all except for his CLAIM to have been scared of Jug that one night that he claims made him tell the HI lie.....however, as we know too, according to his interview on Greta that story was made up before they arrived to face Jug.

What this suggests to me is that 2KJ or parts thereof, knew they did not leave her at the HI and didn't want to say where they really left her, which of course is what Joran says later on when he comes out with the beach story....he didn't want his parents to think he left a girl on the beach alone. So in fact, the HI story was made up out of fear of Joran's parents not out of fear of Jug, hence Joran is taking responsibility for the HI lie AND making it out of fear of his parents. Yet he goes on to blame fear of Jug?

Now my thoughts trickle down to this still ongoing blaming of Natalee's family for being angry and causing the lie. The truth probably is that all Joran wanted was a diversion from his own behavior that night....and I hardly think simply leaving a well girl on the beach would elicit such fear from a cocky cad like Joran comes across as. His 'I'm sorry I wasn't a good boy mommy and daddy' line is a joke! And it is my opinion that it screams Joran has his parents snowed big time.

But why say she was dropped at the HI if they knew she was not. They had to know the cameras were everywhere. They had to know all the cops had to do was check them and discover this lie right away. Yet, the cops did not check the tapes right away to see Natalee being returned to the HI so they could start looking eslewhere for her.....no, they arrested 2 men as if the story were true without checking it out first. ALE jumped in on the HI story like nobodies business! They did not do their jobs. And I have to wonder if it was not just J2K but also the cops who planned this HI lie diversion ahead of time.

actually, they did already know it was a lie.  But they went ahead and arrested the 2 security guards anyway.

Do we know this as fact, or is it part of a conspiracy theory?  I believe what you say here, but I admit it's purely speculation on my part...

[Buckeye]

Buckeye, in response to the ideas about the HI dropoff lie, I believe that Joran and Deepak made up the HI dropoff because that was the modus operandi all the 20 times before that nothing happened.  Their game was to drug a girl at C&C's, and get her into a car before she passed out cold.  They then gang raped at will, as she was unconscious for several hours.  As dawn approached and the girl started to regain consciousness, they dropped her off near her hotel.  She wandered back to her room, went home that day, and that was that.  It had worked in the past, and so they created the lie based on past behavior.

I agree.  It just makes me crazy when they say how scared the 17 yr. old Joran was so he lied.  The lie was preordained and I've never seen Joran "scared".

[BTgirl]

Monkeys,

I must have been a VERY good girl.

Our computer guy here at work just walked into my office a few minutes ago and brought me the most beautiful new flat-screen monitor. And it's HUGE!

I don't know if this is a concession to my old age or not, but I am a very happy girlie this afternoon!

Yowza! Congrats BT! You'll love it. I have two and I absolutely love em! Next time though, tell you IT people they could've gotten it at a discount from moi.    

We're a non-profit. We buy such cheap crap that you've probably never even heard of it.