Natalee Case Discussion #829 2/14/10 - 2/25/10

[Keepthefaith]

Very few people could possibly loan gambling money. Especially to a 17 year old.
Casino manager or a Casino Owner.

These type of loans are normally offered to people who CAN pay it back quick.

I remember when Luis M. took back his casino by raising the rent so high on the building..
He even took it while it was running and kept all the employees working.
The man who lost the casino appeared to be... um.. well, he did not say any bad words about the situation.. 

Was that fear ? ... 

Had a visitor from Venezuela who was interested in him today..FWIW

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[klaasend]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-07-27-aruba_x.htm

Arubans drain pond in Holloway probe
ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) — Investigators trying to determine what happened to Natalee Holloway focused their search efforts Wednesday on a pond near where the U.S. teen was last seen nearly two months ago.

Authorities used a large pump to drain the pond across from the Marriott Hotel while investigators await the results of DNA analysis from labs in the Netherlands and the United States.

Authorities declined to discuss the exact purpose of draining the pond, but confirmed it was part of the investigation into Holloway's disappearance on May 30 — the final night of a high school graduation trip to the Dutch Caribbean island. The job was expected to be finished later Wednesday.

Crews had hoped to finish late Wednesday but it was taking longer than expected to drain the pond. By early Thursday, authorities should have a clearer view of the bottom so they can pinpoint areas to search, said Gabriel Kelly, a spokesman for the fire department, which was coordinating the effort.

Holloway's stepfather, George Twitty, who was at a nearby hotel waiting for results of the search, said police asked the family not to watch as they worked behind a fence to clear the water.

"It's the first time the fire department, the police and other authorities have collaborated on such a huge search," the stepfather said Wednesday. "So they must know something. ... There's so much commotion, they must have a lead."

Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, also said she was hopeful.

"I'm very encouraged about moving forward, and hopefully finding some answers that we've been waiting for, for a long time, and everyone has been," she said on ABC's Good Morning America.

The activity came a day after Holloway's stepfather said two new witnesses had come forward with information about the night the 18-year-old from Mountain Brook, Ala., disappeared.

One witness told investigators that he saw Joran van der Sloot, the 17-year-old Dutch youth who has been detained as the main suspect, driving to a tennis club across the road from the Marriott around 2:30 a.m. the night Holloway disappeared, Twitty said.

The witness said van der Sloot tried to hide his face with his hands as he drove to the Racquet Club with two Surinamese brothers, Satish and Deepak Kalpoe, Twitty said. The Kalpoe brothers were detained as suspects and later released.

The stepfather said the account is significant because it places the three individuals near the hotel beach where van der Sloot says he left Holloway alone the last night she was seen in public.

"What's interesting is the time — 2:30 a.m. — when the three were supposedly on their way home," said Twitty, referring to their previous accounts to investigators.

The witness, a gardener whose name was not disclosed, gave his account to investigators Friday, Twitty said.

The Kalpoe brothers first told police that they and van der Sloot dropped Holloway at her hotel around 2 a.m. the morning of May 30. Later, they said they had lied to protect their friend and that they had dropped the Dutch youth and Holloway at a beach near the hotel.

A second new witness told a private investigator hired by Holloway's family that she saw van der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers drive into the Racquet Club three times that same night. The woman, who lives nearby, has not yet spoken with investigators, he said.

Aruban authorities did not comment on the stepfather's statements.

An attorney for van der Sloot, Richie Kock, said authorities had not told him about the new witnesses. Lawyers for the Kalpoe brothers were not immediately available for comment.

Aruban authorities said this week that they have dispatched a prosecutor to consult with the FBI and brought in experts from the Netherlands as they investigate the disappearance.

Aruban investigators sent hair found attached to duct tape discovered along the shore of the island to the FBI crime lab in Quantico, Va., and to the Netherlands for DNA analysis.

The family on Monday increased the reward for information leading to the young woman's safe return to $1 million, from $200,000.

No one has been charged in the case, and van der Sloot is the only suspect still detained.

Holloway vanished after an evening of eating, drinking and dancing at a nightclub which she left with the three young men, hours before she was to catch a flight home at the end of a graduation trip with 124 classmates.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/27/world/main712230.shtml

ORANJESTAD, Aruba, July 27, 2005
Pond Search Continues In Aruba
Holloway Family's Lawyer Says New Witness Prompted Hunt

(that would be the gardener witness)




http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/07/26/aruba.missing/

Draining of Aruba pond begins
Gardener says he saw suspects the night teen disappeared

Wednesday, July 27, 2005; Posted: 8:57 a.m. EDT (12:57 GMT)

PALM BEACH, Aruba (CNN) -- Investigators in Aruba searching for missing Alabama teen Natalee Holloway began draining a pond Tuesday night.

The pond is near the beach where two brothers told police they dropped off Holloway and a judge's son early May 30, the day she disappeared.

(snipped)


I'll look for a video and photos now.  I believe I have them.

[Tamikosmom]

Oh, for the love of God.

They've put 2 questions to Dave Holloway.  the first was from a caller in NY about Natalee being sold into prostitution in Venezuela.  The second was from a caller in KY about where was the chaperone.

    

I hate this show.  Everytime I watch it I get p*ssed off.  You'd think I would know better by now...

Lifesong

Those remarks are respresentative of a American friends who ... for over a week ... have made our home their base while they do the Olympic/Tourist thing each day.

 

Janet

[Rob]

Okay, the one with the firetrucks was the one I was thinking of.  I think that's the same one you were posting pictures of earlier today, right Rob?

I remember too about being told it was filling back up with ocean water that seeped through the ground or something like that...

Lifesong- no, I'm sorry that was a different pond and it can get confusing. The pond I posted earlier was one that Kyle "accidentally" or "inadvertently" or "mistakenly" gave the coordinates.

The only reason I have that is because I was here and so was he and he started giving the info and I pulled it all in and screen captured it. I saved it and THAT pond I posted earlier is the pond by the racquet club... that pond has not been searched to my knowledge - well, not anymore than maybe - possibly - the TES dogs walking around it.

[klaasend]

Video of the pond being drained:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=712401n&tag=related;photovideo



Watch CBS News Videos Online

[Magnolia]

1.  In Joran's confession to Patrick, he claims Natalee had a seizure and died.  Then he/they took her out to sea.

2.  In the new confession, he's claiming that Natalee fell and died and he put her body in the pond near the Marriott.


I believe parts of both can be true.  The pond near the Marriott is where the gardener though he saw Deepak's car.  It's right near the Fishermans Huts.  This could be where he HID her body until the following night.  By the following night PVDS helped arrange her disposal at sea. 

What happened prior to Natalee dieing and who was involved is anyones guess now.  My guess after following the case, is that Natalee was given a date rape drug and she was raped then slipped into a coma after having a seizure.  They (Joran and his father) couldn't let her body be found because it would show she had been given drugs and forcibly raped.

I agree.  I think there are bits of truth in everything he tells.

I also agree with Buckeye...put him in the looney bin until he can get his stories straight.

[Rob]

Joran only told that part because he knows she wasn't left there.

They couldn't take a chance of a dog picking up the scent, or any number of things that could have revealed the location.

She was moved again, where she wouldn't be found.

To a fish trap in the ocean, 1-2 miles out in 90 feet of water.

Isn't it convenient that one week after there's FINALLY confirmation of human remains in that fish trap...that this story that's sat on the shelves for months...that no one cared to air...comes out?

Male DNA? 

I totally agree - 110% agree.

It's all a distraction.

[Tamikosmom]

This pond was drained on June 15, 2005.  This is not the pond near the Racquet Ball Club that was drained at the end of July.

Janet

++++++


USA TODAY - June 15, 2005

Aruban authorities spent several hours Wednesday searching the house of the Dutch youth in the upscale Noord neighborhood. They carried away items in paper bags and cardboard boxes and towed away a blue sport-utility vehicle and a red Jeep.
 
The search came a day after police combed a mangrove swamp near Holloway's hotel. Police suspended that search after pumping water from a drainage pond.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-06-15-missing-teen_x.htm

[klaasend]

[wreck]

Joran only told that part because he knows she wasn't left there.

They couldn't take a chance of a dog picking up the scent, or any number of things that could have revealed the location.

She was moved again, where she wouldn't be found.

To a fish trap in the ocean, 1-2 miles out in 90 feet of water.

Isn't it convenient that one week after there's FINALLY confirmation of human remains in that fish trap...that this story that's sat on the shelves for months...that no one cared to air...comes out?

Male DNA? 

I totally agree - 110% agree.

It's all a distraction.

NO DOUBT!!!!

[klaasend]

Night #1 - hide the body in the pond (I still say Joran's shoe is likely stuck in the mud in that pond)

Night #2 - as instructed by PVDS, take the body out to sea (Male DNA = Natalee)

[Magnolia]

Night #1 - hide the body in the pond (I still say Joran's shoe is likely stuck in the mud in that pond)

Night #2 - as instructed by PVDS, take the body out to sea (Male DNA = Natalee)

Van der Straaten and Voc King are friends....no need to pay them.
Pay off Eric Soemers and Dompig to make all the evidence disappear.

[wreck]

Night #1 - hide the body in the pond (I still say Joran's shoe is likely stuck in the mud in that pond)

Night #2 - as instructed by PVDS, take the body out to sea (Male DNA = Natalee)

That is what I have believed as well.

[Rob]

Night #1 - hide the body in the pond (I still say Joran's shoe is likely stuck in the mud in that pond)

Night #2 - as instructed by PVDS, take the body out to sea (Male DNA = Natalee)

Van der Straaten and Voc King are friends....no need to pay them.
Pay off Eric Soemers and Dompig to make all the evidence disappear.

paid off to shut down the radar and blame Raytheon.

[Tamikosmom]

Search Resumes For Body Of Natalee Holloway (video)


http://www.keyc.com/node/34038

Hmmm, wonder if they are searching?

A search is again under way in Aruba for the body of Natalee Holloway...A German news agency reports Joran van der Sloot, a suspect in the Holloway case, has confessed to disposing of her body.Holloway has been missing since May 30, 2005. She was on a high school graduation trip to Aruba at the time of her disappearance. Her body has never been found.The statements by the Dutch suspect (van der Sloot) were made in front of cameras, and were similar to a confession he made two years ago to a Dutch crime reporter.

 

A search!!!  Who is in charge?

The two confessions do not equate.  The Range Rover "confession" claims Natalee was immediately taken out to sea in a boat and dumped overboard ... no meantion of a swamp/marsh/pond ... no mention of a trap/cage.

Natalee Holloway may have been buried in a shallow grave for a short period of time.  She may have been placed in a pond/marsh/swamp for a short period of time.  However ... bottom line ... according to the sonar/ROV operator/analyst on board the Persistence ... Natalee Holloway's remains were ... in all probability ... recovered unchallenged from the ocean floor by the Aruban enemy who has prevented justice from prevailing since May 30, 2005.

The trap/cage should be the focus.  Everything else is a distraction.

IMO

Janet

++++++++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  For Jan 7th, Eduardo wasn't on the boat, neither were any media, Tim Miller, or Tim Trahan.

Kyle Kingman: The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle Kingman:  Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle Kingman:  Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water. John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me.

Kyle Kingman:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

BUMPED!!!

[Lifesong]

Night #1 - hide the body in the pond (I still say Joran's shoe is likely stuck in the mud in that pond)

Night #2 - as instructed by PVDS, take the body out to sea (Male DNA = Natalee)

Van der Straaten and Voc King are friends....no need to pay them.
Pay off Eric Soemers and Dompig to make all the evidence disappear.

Agree with all of that.  I'm surprised that Jacobs wasn't one of the names, I would've thought he was bought off.

[Magnolia]

Night #1 - hide the body in the pond (I still say Joran's shoe is likely stuck in the mud in that pond)

Night #2 - as instructed by PVDS, take the body out to sea (Male DNA = Natalee)

Van der Straaten and Voc King are friends....no need to pay them.
Pay off Eric Soemers and Dompig to make all the evidence disappear.

Agree with all of that.  I'm surprised that Jacobs wasn't one of the names, I would've thought he was bought off.

Jocobs probably was paid.  Joran just forgot to mention him.

[Rob]

Night #1 - hide the body in the pond (I still say Joran's shoe is likely stuck in the mud in that pond)

Night #2 - as instructed by PVDS, take the body out to sea (Male DNA = Natalee)

Van der Straaten and Voc King are friends....no need to pay them.
Pay off Eric Soemers and Dompig to make all the evidence disappear.

Agree with all of that.  I'm surprised that Jacobs wasn't one of the names, I would've thought he was bought off.

I was wondering that myself and then thought Paulus had him by the short hairs... he's someone that didn't need paid-off as he was threatened with exposure... and Jacobs was dripping with corruption and everyone knew it.

[Rob]

Night #1 - hide the body in the pond (I still say Joran's shoe is likely stuck in the mud in that pond)

Night #2 - as instructed by PVDS, take the body out to sea (Male DNA = Natalee)

Van der Straaten and Voc King are friends....no need to pay them.
Pay off Eric Soemers and Dompig to make all the evidence disappear.

Agree with all of that.  I'm surprised that Jacobs wasn't one of the names, I would've thought he was bought off.

I was wondering that myself and then thought Paulus had him by the short hairs... he's someone that didn't need paid-off as he was threatened with exposure... and Jacobs was dripping with corruption and everyone knew it.

I'll add...

On the wall of Jacob's office was a picture of Lorenzo van Rijn - Dave Holloway saw that and made a few comments about it. Jacobs was getting kickbacks from Lorenzo and Paulus knew this and so did Anita who then turned this into Paulus's love child. and an escape for the sporter...

[wreck]

Night #1 - hide the body in the pond (I still say Joran's shoe is likely stuck in the mud in that pond)

Night #2 - as instructed by PVDS, take the body out to sea (Male DNA = Natalee)

Van der Straaten and Voc King are friends....no need to pay them.
Pay off Eric Soemers and Dompig to make all the evidence disappear.

Agree with all of that.  I'm surprised that Jacobs wasn't one of the names, I would've thought he was bought off.

Jocobs probably was paid.  Joran just forgot to mention him.

OR...... the "big boys" were paid off and the underlings such as Jacobs were paid "down the line".