Natalee Case Discussion #829 2/14/10 - 2/25/10

[Lifesong]

Wait a minute.  I'm listening to the full podcast now.


Grrr-man....the pond witness?!??!!?!!


I'm confused now...maybe I've just lost too much time in the last year, but I thought I pond witness was FOS and tied to Capslockwizard the 4-headed jackass who was meeting with Silvetti.

??

WTH?  I'm thinking this whole line of discussion is just to fill time?

Different pond witness I believe.  There was a witness that came forward while they were there then later too.  Caps may have been involved with both though.

I think the one they are talking about now is a woman named Geerman.

So, is this still the one that says they saw Joran half covered in mud walking away from the pond, then saw paulus driving the jeep with joran in the passenger seat driving back toward the pond?

Was that a woman?  Heheheh - how did I get so confused??     

[texasmom]

Wait a minute.  I'm listening to the full podcast now.


Grrr-man....the pond witness?!??!!?!!


I'm confused now...maybe I've just lost too much time in the last year, but I thought I pond witness was FOS and tied to Capslockwizard the 4-headed jackass who was meeting with Silvetti.

??

WTH?  I'm thinking this whole line of discussion is just to fill time?

Different pond witness I believe.  There was a witness that came forward while they were there then later too.  Caps may have been involved with both though.

I think the one they are talking about now is a woman named Geerman.

They referred to the witness as "he", but one part of the name could be a woman's name.

I believe it's the same witness.

[Magnolia]

Click on the picture below to hear TIM MILLER talk about the trap they found and the MALE DNA:

Wow.

Thanks, Klaas!

Again with the Schaefer and Silvetti, huh?      I wish I could believe in them, but I don't.  Andy why trust ALE (140 targets left?) when they prevented justice in the first place?

This is so misguided.

JMO and only MO.

You're not alone.

This is the part that troubles me the most too.

And they should have NEVER trusted Aruban ALE for a second, they knew better than that before they ever left the USA.  Remember who WAS on the Persistence when Aruban ALE took ALL the evidence.  nuff said.

JMO, but I don't see any reason to spend another couple million searching the remaining targets when the prize was more than likely recovered two years ago.

I'll never forgive them for what they've done.

If that wasn't Natalee in that cage, the NAME of the MALE that was in the cage would have been plastered on every newspaper out of Aruba and more.  The grateful family would have verified that their DNA had been compared to the remains and on and on.....

IT'S BS, AND I'M NOT BUYING IT! 

Tim Miller needs to believe what he knows in his heart and his gut.  I heard it in his voice.

JMO

I heard it in his voice too, TM.   Tim knows what he saw!

[Anna]

Wait a minute.  I'm listening to the full podcast now.


Grrr-man....the pond witness?!??!!?!!


I'm confused now...maybe I've just lost too much time in the last year, but I thought I pond witness was FOS and tied to Capslockwizard the 4-headed jackass who was meeting with Silvetti.

??

WTH?  I'm thinking this whole line of discussion is just to fill time?

Different pond witness I believe.  There was a witness that came forward while they were there then later too.  Caps may have been involved with both though.

But would the witnesses see the same thing if they were two different ones?

I am very confused about this and also the fact that Tim wants to look at the other 140 targets which would indicated he no longer thinks it was Natalee in that trap that was the subject of the ALE dive.

Otherwise he wouldn't want to look at the others, would he?

Or maybe he feels as I do that if that was her in that trap, it's just game over!  They absconded with what and whomever that was and we will never see any of that again, ever, ever, ever.

And I'm just not ready to go there.  I don't want that to be true and am trying to find a way to justify it not being.

Well, tomorrow we will have the witness' statement or polygraph posted to ponder as well.

[Anna]

Lifesong,

Wonderful to have you back in the cage.  I missed you!  And I am confused as well and am going to have to think on all this a bit before I can understand it.

And I am hoping in the meanwhile, the death of Paulus will losen tongues and someone will provide new information that will clairify some of this.

Yes, I think Tim goes along to get along sometimes and maybe that's what I'm trying to do as well.  But there is no way to un-do ALE taking all the trap contents and if it was Natalee, she's just gone forever.

[texasmom]

I can see a possibility of the witness being truthful, and CLW still being FOS.

IF the body was hidden at the pond until the next day, and then taken out to sea.

But CLW insisted that Natalee was STILL in the pond...all of her...and then parts of her; besides the other places he claimed she was... cemetery...cave.

The name of the witness does disturb me, and makes me doubt they're for real.

Lie detectors can be beaten.

And considering that CLW and the "witness" were thisclose.  

I'm inclined not to believe the witness.

JMO

[Keepthefaith]

HOTPING  

[Anna]

Anna this is true.  We are going on 5 years.

I think Joran is going to be so money hungry that his two brothers better watch out.  I also think Anita and Paulus have discussed who they should leave their money to and they put a lot under Val's name.

TCSMoM was posting and I missed her.  I am so proud her son finished law school and passed the bar but isn't it a shame we are still here waiting for justice after so long when everybody knows who is responsible and have known from the day it happened.

Anyway, TCUmom if you see this, congrats on your son's accomplishments and wish Natalee has been given to opportunity to reach her potential as well.

[Anna]

I can see a possibility of the witness being truthful, and CLW still being FOS.

IF the body was hidden at the pond until the next day, and then taken out to sea.

But CLW insisted that Natalee was STILL in the pond...all of her...and then parts of her; besides the other places he claimed she was... cemetery...cave.

The name of the witness does disturb me, and makes me doubt they're for real.

Lie detectors can be beaten.

And considering that CLW and the "witness" were thisclose.  

I'm inclined not to believe the witness.

JMO

Didn't the witness just say they saw Joran coming from the direction of the pond?  He could have been washing evidence off there or something.  I think it was CLW who claimed Natalee was in the pond along with all manner of other things like the Kalpoes family owning motel, wild things like that.

Isn't the witness statement only about seeing Joran and Paulus that night with no claim to know what they had been doing?

[sandy leiva]

Great to see you, Sandy 

(Edit-Fix quote MB)


ive been here reading all along as well as in other threads. Glad this case is finally coming up again, hopefully with more info now. while listeningf too the podcast it just brought back memories of all we have posted or read here over the past 5 yrs. the only real thing that was new was the bs about the dna being male dna from the crab trap. who would believe anything from aruban LE at this point after all the lies that have been told and the cover up by them. pvds was a major player in this because he was involved he was not just protecting joran.good night for today will check in or read tommorow.  lov you guys for your tenacity in seeking justice for Natalee.

[Anna]

There is a new administration in office in Aruba, also.  That could be a positive factor.

[MuffyBee]

Great to see you, Sandy 

(Edit-Fix quote MB)


ive been here reading all along as well as in other threads. Glad this case is finally coming up again, hopefully with more info now. while listeningf too the podcast it just brought back memories of all we have posted or read here over the past 5 yrs. the only real thing that was new was the bs about the dna being male dna from the crab trap. who would believe anything from aruban LE at this point after all the lies that have been told and the cover up by them. pvds was a major player in this because he was involved he was not just protecting joran.good night for today will check in or read tommorow.  lov you guys for your tenacity in seeking justice for Natalee.

Good night Sandy and see you tomorrow.     Pleasant dreams.

[BUCKSHOT]

I can see a possibility of the witness being truthful, and CLW still being FOS.

IF the body was hidden at the pond until the next day, and then taken out to sea.

But CLW insisted that Natalee was STILL in the pond...all of her...and then parts of her; besides the other places he claimed she was... cemetery...cave.

The name of the witness does disturb me, and makes me doubt they're for real.

Lie detectors can be beaten.

And considering that CLW and the "witness" were thisclose.  

I'm inclined not to believe the witness.

JMO

Didn't the witness just say they saw Joran coming from the direction of the pond?  He could have been washing evidence off there or something.  I think it was CLW who claimed Natalee was in the pond along with all manner of other things like the Kalpoes family owning motel, wild things like that.

Isn't the witness statement only about seeing Joran and Paulus that night with no claim to know what they had been doing?

I think Joran (the delicious sporter) was home studying for his exams...
And Paulus was sound asleep (with cell phone in hand)...

[texasmom]

I can see a possibility of the witness being truthful, and CLW still being FOS.

IF the body was hidden at the pond until the next day, and then taken out to sea.

But CLW insisted that Natalee was STILL in the pond...all of her...and then parts of her; besides the other places he claimed she was... cemetery...cave.

The name of the witness does disturb me, and makes me doubt they're for real.

Lie detectors can be beaten.

And considering that CLW and the "witness" were thisclose.  

I'm inclined not to believe the witness.

JMO

Didn't the witness just say they saw Joran coming from the direction of the pond?  He could have been washing evidence off there or something.  I think it was CLW who claimed Natalee was in the pond along with all manner of other things like the Kalpoes family owning motel, wild things like that.

Isn't the witness statement only about seeing Joran and Paulus that night with no claim to know what they had been doing?

I think it's more of how the witness came to be for me.  Supposedly he had gone to the police but they wouldn't listen.  So he waits almost two years for the Persistence crew to go down there and hounds them until they listen to him?  I think if I were that witness and I'd already told ALE what I saw and they did nothing...I would be afraid of what might happen to me so I'd contact the FBI and at least tell my story in case I was found hanged (suicide of course) with my hands in my pockets.  But that's just me.

Like my friend the Church lady says it's just a little too convennnnient for me.   

Ya know what I mean?

[billb's daughter]

Very interesting podcast....great to here Tim Miller and his take on things, along with Michael Cardoza and Steph Watts...
From what I gathered, Steph went to Thailand at the request of joran (who wanted to sell his story for $25K - to basically sell Paulus down the river -joran said he had a tape of Paulus admitting help in coverup). Steph was there in advance for Fox, Greta - didn't buy joran story, but had to check it out...Steph then went to aruba with Jim Hammer (for Fox) to confront Paulus with the story that joran wanted to sell Paulus out (Paulus reaction was that he maybe didn't know where joran was and couldn't believe his son tried to sell him out).
What really caught me though...Tim Miller said joran is a sociopath that really ran the family....and was the mind driving paulus to cover for him.....probably drove paulus to his grave....but joran the sociopath  would not accept that......

[Magnolia]

I can see a possibility of the witness being truthful, and CLW still being FOS.

IF the body was hidden at the pond until the next day, and then taken out to sea.

But CLW insisted that Natalee was STILL in the pond...all of her...and then parts of her; besides the other places he claimed she was... cemetery...cave.

The name of the witness does disturb me, and makes me doubt they're for real.

Lie detectors can be beaten.

And considering that CLW and the "witness" were thisclose.  

I'm inclined not to believe the witness.

JMO

Didn't the witness just say they saw Joran coming from the direction of the pond?  He could have been washing evidence off there or something.  I think it was CLW who claimed Natalee was in the pond along with all manner of other things like the Kalpoes family owning motel, wild things like that.

Isn't the witness statement only about seeing Joran and Paulus that night with no claim to know what they had been doing?

I think Joran (the delicious sporter) was home studying for his exams...
And Paulus was sound asleep (with cell phone in hand)...

Surely you jest, Buckshot!

[BUCKSHOT]

Persistence goes to Aruba to search for Natalee.
It is believed that she is in the ocean in a cage.
A cage had been stolen from Fh the night NH went missing.
Persistence finds crab trap in ocean (as sought).
Material in cage resembles clothed of NH.
Aruba (stalls and) tells them they need Holland assistance.
Out of nowhere...Aruba secretly dives cage, recovers contents, and disappears.
Weeks later, it is determined to be irrelevant to case.
No further explanation (to date) has been given.

Hmmm...Sure seems fishy...

[billb's daughter]

I really appreciated at the end that Tim said he wanted to go to paulus funeral if joran was there....just to let joran know it is not over......

[BUCKSHOT]

Persistence goes to Aruba to search for Natalee.
It is believed that she is in the ocean in a cage.
A cage had been stolen from FH the night NH went missing.
Persistence finds crab trap in ocean (as sought).
Material in cage resembles clothing of NH.
Aruba (stalls and) tells them they need Holland assistance.
Out of nowhere...Aruba secretly dives cage, recovers contents, and disappears.
Weeks later, it is determined to be irrelevant to case.
No further explanation (to date) has been given.

Hmmm...Sure seems fishy...

[BUCKSHOT]

I really appreciated at the end that Tim said he wanted to go to paulus funeral if joran was there....just to let joran know it is not over......

Would love to be a "fly on the wall" in that scenario...