Natalee Case Discussion #829 2/14/10 - 2/25/10

[cajun miracle]

Good Nite all.   

[billb's daughter]

Tim Miller explained the Germann witness in much more detail than I had heard before....the fact that he came to ALE early Jun 05 with his story....took a polygraph Sep 2, 2008, and Tim confirmed ALE heard from the witness in Jun 05....but that ALE discredited his story.....
But Tim did say the time line made sense, and that he believes joran/paulus could have hidden Natalee that early morning. The FH cage was broken into and paulus/joran could have disposed of Natalee the next night....Tim and Dave found the boat (Gotten...) that had been in the waters for 3 plus years...then immediately dry-docked after Natalee went missing...the family moved back to Holland (and I believe on to Atlanta)...
Natalee was most likely in the cage....mo

Ok, this is starting to make more sense.  Tim pretty much lays out what he thinks happened.  I'd like to see the pictures again of the witness' house in relation to the raquetball club.  If they stashed the body on the first night and Paulus picked Joran up, then went back the next night and took her out to sea in the crab trap - then the whole dropping Joran off at the racquetball club figures in somehow to recovering the body and getting it to the boat.  No?

It makes perfect sense to me Lifesong.....
after listening to Tim say joran is a sociopath that ran the family...paulus/anita/younger brothers....
paulas protected joran as a lawyer....(told Dave he would do anything to protect his son)...
joran was the mastermind of the disposal with paulus providing high (legal) cover......with ALE/prosecution/ahata....

[Lifesong]

Just did a search on Geerman... here's result #19, no point - i'm just refreshing my memory.   

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4783.msg749047;topicseen#msg749047

19  Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #813 3/31/09 -on: April 02, 2009, 12:40:39 AM 
Started by San, Message by KermitRelevance: 20.8%
WITNESS IS MALE AND 48 YEARS  OLD
http://tinyurl.com/6h95l7

forward and the fact that the 48 year old witness had passed two polygraph exams
http://tinyurl.com/ca8vpb


THE WITNESS IS NAMED
 
MANSUR: Of course. We know he was involved from the beginning. And after the new wave of things(ph), Mr. Herman, who saw Joran walking with his clothes all muddy. And then later he was saw him in the car with Paulus van der Sloot.

And we assume, and it has been certified by this man that the man who took Joran van der Sloot to his home that night after Natalee disappeared was his father. So he was involved from the beginning.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,462349,00.html

#52 on: Today at 10:44:30 AM
Could Jossy be saying Geerman or Gearman as that is a very common name in Aruba.  Mr. Geerman
 
 #56 on: Today at 10:47:30 AM
Even Werleman...that was mentioned yesterday
 
---
 
I told you guys there was a real live witness...Jossy just gave you his name
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4186.msg567142#msg567142


ABOUT THE WITNESS
 
Caps witness was a person that lived on Aruba and had a family there. Caps knew this witness for about 3 1/2 years He said he lived in a house on the road where the pond is.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3332.msg445163#msg445163

The street that runs alongside the soccer field is Van Bubali Narr Nord.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4743.msg739403#msg739403

 Van Bubali Naar Noord
 
In 2005 I was not on Aruba.   caps
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2733.msg371263#msg371263


picture of soccer field with lights here
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3332.900
 

 

[Lifesong]

Tim Miller explained the Germann witness in much more detail than I had heard before....the fact that he came to ALE early Jun 05 with his story....took a polygraph Sep 2, 2008, and Tim confirmed ALE heard from the witness in Jun 05....but that ALE discredited his story.....
But Tim did say the time line made sense, and that he believes joran/paulus could have hidden Natalee that early morning. The FH cage was broken into and paulus/joran could have disposed of Natalee the next night....Tim and Dave found the boat (Gotten...) that had been in the waters for 3 plus years...then immediately dry-docked after Natalee went missing...the family moved back to Holland (and I believe on to Atlanta)...
Natalee was most likely in the cage....mo

Ok, this is starting to make more sense.  Tim pretty much lays out what he thinks happened.  I'd like to see the pictures again of the witness' house in relation to the raquetball club.  If they stashed the body on the first night and Paulus picked Joran up, then went back the next night and took her out to sea in the crab trap - then the whole dropping Joran off at the racquetball club figures in somehow to recovering the body and getting it to the boat.  No?

It makes perfect sense to me Lifesong.....
after listening to Tim say joran is a sociopath that ran the family...paulus/anita/younger brothers....
paulas protected joran as a lawyer....(told Dave he would do anything to protect his son)...
joran was the mastermind of the disposal with paulus providing high (legal) cover......with ALE/prosecution/ahata....

Exactly.   That's how then - what 2-3 years later? - Caps and his crew stepped in and twisted the witness' story making it sound as though she was still in the pond and hadn't been moved OR at least maybe Joran's shoe was there...

[billb's daughter]

Tim Miller explained the Germann witness in much more detail than I had heard before....the fact that he came to ALE early Jun 05 with his story....took a polygraph Sep 2, 2008, and Tim confirmed ALE heard from the witness in Jun 05....but that ALE discredited his story.....
But Tim did say the time line made sense, and that he believes joran/paulus could have hidden Natalee that early morning. The FH cage was broken into and paulus/joran could have disposed of Natalee the next night....Tim and Dave found the boat (Gotten...) that had been in the waters for 3 plus years...then immediately dry-docked after Natalee went missing...the family moved back to Holland (and I believe on to Atlanta)...
Natalee was most likely in the cage....mo

Ok, this is starting to make more sense.  Tim pretty much lays out what he thinks happened.  I'd like to see the pictures again of the witness' house in relation to the raquetball club.  If they stashed the body on the first night and Paulus picked Joran up, then went back the next night and took her out to sea in the crab trap - then the whole dropping Joran off at the racquetball club figures in somehow to recovering the body and getting it to the boat.  No?

It makes perfect sense to me Lifesong.....
after listening to Tim say joran is a sociopath that ran the family...paulus/anita/younger brothers....
paulas protected joran as a lawyer....(told Dave he would do anything to protect his son)...
joran was the mastermind of the disposal with paulus providing high (legal) cover......with ALE/prosecution/ahata....

Exactly.   That's how then - what 2-3 years later? - Caps and his crew stepped in and twisted the witness' story making it sound as though she was still in the pond and hadn't been moved OR at least maybe Joran's shoe was there...

Caps/crew picked up on the witness story and ran with it...giving it life.....allowing witness to sell to Tim....Tim arranges polygraph.....witness believes so passes test......
Meanwhile...persistence finds cage 30 Dec 08...
To discredit.....witness and pond theory come to light...

[billb's daughter]

My opinion....the podcast tonight brought out a lot to think about....for me...refreshed my memory that puts my focus back to the early days....first week of June 2005. 
Regardless of what I think about Paulus and Anita's roles....the ALE, prosecutors KJ...HM.....
It Starts with Joran......he IS a sociopath...controlled everyone and everything from the beginning....
With Paulus dead........what will be joran's next move.......we will see.....we will watch......we will discuss....
and we be here until Natalee, Beth, and Dave....receive Justice.....
Good Night Good Monkeys........

[Keepthefaith]

My opinion....the podcast tonight brought out a lot to think about....for me...refreshed my memory that puts my focus back to the early days....first week of June 2005. 
Regardless of what I think about Paulus and Anita's roles....the ALE, prosecutors KJ...HM.....
It Starts with Joran......he IS a sociopath...controlled everyone and everything from the beginning....
With Paulus dead........what will be joran's next move.......we will see.....we will watch......we will discuss....
and we be here until Natalee, Beth, and Dave....receive Justice.....
Good Night Good Monkeys........

GoodNight & God Bless BillB...

[billb's daughter]

My opinion....the podcast tonight brought out a lot to think about....for me...refreshed my memory that puts my focus back to the early days....first week of June 2005. 
Regardless of what I think about Paulus and Anita's roles....the ALE, prosecutors KJ...HM.....
It Starts with Joran......he IS a sociopath...controlled everyone and everything from the beginning....
With Paulus dead........what will be joran's next move.......we will see.....we will watch......we will discuss....
and we be here until Natalee, Beth, and Dave....receive Justice.....
Good Night Good Monkeys........

GoodNight & God Bless BillB...

Good Night Keepthefaith....
Like so many others.....I pretty much go to sleep every night praying for Justice for Natalee.....and wake up every morning hoping my prays have been answered.....
It is only time.........

[Keepthefaith]

JORAN,DEEPAK,SATISH & THE MISCREANTS OF ARUBA


"Live each day like its your last...one day you'll be right."

[carpe noctem]

 

[carpe noctem]

 

[Sharon/Tx]

Good morning Monkeys!  Male DNA my foot.  It will be interesting to see if Tim goes to the funeral.  Even though his wife is ill, (http://texasequusearch.org/) I pray he goes and looks the sociopath straight in the eyes the whole time.  Something has to give.  Someone knows the truth.  We're not going away! 

[Rob]

You know, the name Geerman and the capacity of "witness" just does not ring true for me. It's like "doctor" and the name Mengele. It just doesn't work.

Ok, let's say there is truth here for once. Who's in the cage? Male. Let's assume all that is true.

I remember Kyle saying that the cage was there 2-10 years if I recall correctly. I don't think this is missing Gary Makings. He was scuba diving when he vanished. No scuba gear was ever discovered to my knowledge. And not too many people swim into a cage and drown themselves.

I don't believe this is Buddy Larson, but I theorize it's possible none the less. After-all, the Aruban Authorities KNOW who else is missing and they have records and could claim anything. They are hardly a trustworthy source for info, and depending on them hardly seems fair.

I seriously doubt this is Jose Tromp - the missing guy that worked at KIA at one time. He was missing after the presumed dating of the trap.

There are probably many others missing that we just don't know about. The Aruban record keeping system leaves alot to be desired and I'm not even sure you can count on birth certificates there.

The very fact that the clothing appeared to look like Natalee's and the absconding of the trap's contents say there is more here. And who goes to the elaborate hoax of placing clothing and remains in a trap all to deceive. I know that some will say, well heck, the Arubans would do that. But it's just not practical in real life. There is no reason to stage a hoax that elaborate. That is how people are disposed of in reality. A pond hoax is more along the lines of the Aruban mindset and to steer away from a real potential discovery. That makes more sense.

At one time I was speaking with Gary's son. And to my knowledge no one has ever contacted anyone and said we have found your relative or loved one. You would think that with others missing identifying who that actually was would be a priority. Buddy didn't have many relatives and I spoke with either a girlfriend or ex-wife. I don't recall what she was now and she was hard to find. Finding others who knew Buddy was almost impossible and probably why there was little concern for his whereabouts.

Gary was married when the scuba accident happened and he was there with the new step-mother of the son I was speaking with. So, if that was Gary you might think she would have been notified. 

I believe Janet said it best - the chance was likely lost forever.

I guess I always believed that Paulus would not risk Natalee ever being found, but in reality, you do what you can in a flash when the missing teen's family is probably on their way. You usually don't plan how to clean up a mess this big on the spur of the moment and this may have been the best that could be accomplished.

Maybe it really is as simple as the Gottenbos boat out 2.1-2.2 miles and dropping the trap. It makes more sense than a call to Colombia and hired bifrons.

[Rob]

one more point. Both van der Sloot vehicles were confiscated. You could presume since Anita was away no one was driving her Kia, but Paulus was seen in the red Suzuki. Taking both vehicles says it was believed that Natalee was in one of those vehicles and Valentijn and Satish (IIRC) were asked if Joran drives.

As far as I know, the results of the search on those vehiles have never been released.

And it makes me wonder if this is part of Paulus' pre-mediation charge.

[jen3560]

Did Tim say that they said the DNA, in the trap was male??  So they admit there was human DNA??

Hi Ya Buckeye- who are "they" and if "they" are the Aruban Authorities and "they" say it's male - then it's FEMALE DNA.

Precisely Rob.

At least this is one step in the right direction - Aruba admitting there were human remains in that cage.

So sorry Johan - NO HERMIT CRABS TODAY!!

Monkeys - it's certainly not over......

[jen3560]

Did Tim say that they said the DNA, in the trap was male??  So they admit there was human DNA??

Hi Ya Buckeye- who are "they" and if "they" are the Aruban Authorities and "they" say it's male - then it's FEMALE DNA.

He talked about Aruba needing help from Holland then the Arubans surprisingly dove on the trap.  The results came back as male DNA.  For sure I don't believe that.  I've never seen anything from the Forensic Institute.  I don't think they send anything anywhere without doctoring it.

And that jives exactly with what Kyle told us.

Big, glaring discrepancy however = Kyle never said anything about the remains being those of a male.

I wonder why John Silvetti never told him Aruba had said that??

[jen3560]

Didn't they claim to send whatever they took from that fish trap to the FBI?  I thought they did and there was a delay of like ten days from the time of the dive to their sending it?

There was a delay of two weeks Anna.  Dolph Richardson himself took custody of what was recovered, and said he personally sent it to the FBI.  Two weeks later.

What the FBI received were two blue materials.  One was rubber.  The other they tested to see if it was Natalee's blouse.

[jen3560]

Didn't they claim to send whatever they took from that fish trap to the FBI?  I thought they did and there was a delay of like ten days from the time of the dive to their sending it?

I think that Arubans said that they only sent fabric to the FBI.
Who knows what fabric they sent?
I heard Tim to say they sent remains from the trap to NL and NL lab said it was male DNA.

And just like the blood = chocolate, "she did = "she didn't"

No actual reports from the NFI stating the remains were that of a male.

Surely if they had such a thing, Mos would have read it publicly, as he did the FBI's report?

[jen3560]

I still think Nicaragua was just a ploy to get Tim Miller away from the Persistence!   

Tim said he thought Joran may have been behind some of that, but I'm thinking Paulus or others.  JMO

Absolutely it was!!

It was far too coincidental to be otherwise, in my book!

[Serenity]

Have we heard yet as to where/when the funeral is?