Natalee Case Discussion #829 2/14/10 - 2/25/10

[Keepthefaith]

KEEPTHEFAITH...........GOOD DAY!

[SunnyinTX]

Dana Pretzer's daily commentary today is on the sudden death of Paulus van der Sloot:

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/audio//20100215c.mp3

I piss on Vader Sloot’s grave, a man who has tortured an innocent girl’s family for five
VERY LONG years. I too, have no class.

WOW  Carpe   It has really felt good to have so many of our 'old' posters back here.....I hope y'all stay.

[Anna]

Great news!  Surely the Kalpoes must realize they could not file a lawsuit and not testify!

But you never know as they have some very strange ideas on how things work on that flyspeck.

[Keepthefaith]

Dana Pretzer's daily commentary today is on the sudden death of Paulus van der Sloot:

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/audio//20100215c.mp3

Thanks Klaas.

Dana Pretzen and Steve Holloway have both taken the high road in regards to Paulus van der Sloot.  I wish I could travel that high road with them but ... every time I venture out ... a road block in my mind reminds me that loyalty to Natalee Holloway is where it is at.  IMO.

It does appear from the interview that Tim Miller is not a believe in Kyle Kingman's own words.

Janet

++++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:   I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand.

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment ...

Kyle Kingman:  After the Dec 30th dive John [Silvetti] didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability. I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee.

Kyle Kingman:  Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle Kingman:  Several hours of footage were of other (ROV) dives on other targets. None were of any relevance. Most targets were of peculiar coral pinnacles, man-made debris, and ship wrecks.

Credit: Kermit - Scared Monkeys

Nice to have you back Janet!

[Keepthefaith]

KEEPTHEFAITH...........GOOD DAY!

[Rob]

I have been biting my tongue for about three days now... and deciding if I should say this or not..I have really been tapping toes, rolling eyes and dry heaving all over myself AND I KNEW it was bound to happen.

Paulus was a good man.

Natalee was a whore.

Paulus was a family man.

Natalee got what she deserved.

Paulus was taken way too soon.

Natalee ran away before.

Paulus was a wonderful lawyer.

Natalee used drugs and overdosed herself.

Paulus was the patriarch of the family.

Natalee is dancing in South America.

****

Condolences for Paulus. Pity for Paulus. Sympathy for Paulus. It's understood why he did what he did for his son. And what HE had to endure the last five years. And a screwball from another site wants to volunteer to make a trip to the funeral. Just sick.

Spite for Natalee. Disdain for Natalee and her family. She was an insurance scam. No mention of what Natalee's family had to endure.

There are some people in this hemisphere, especially those with screwed up nicknames, that need to examine their value system and moral compass.

My personal hope is a tsunami hits Aruba and wipes the whole thing clean. And lastly, that God turns old leather face into a pillar of salt, and then the whole thing collapses into the sea under a foam that boils with all the noxious fumes that only hell can create.

[can]

Thank you Anna for posting your thoughts...I've been looking forward to them and more as you continue to think about this.

So many WHAT-IF'S...and it sure would have been nice to see that concrete
torn apart at the VDS residence.

You're welcome, Can and thanks for yours as well.  There are so many things we have thought we knew over the years that came to nothing or turned out to be not true that I am just cautious about what I believe any more and tend to keep things simple and try not to base everything on what any one person says regardless of who it is saying it.

I'd also like to know more about what else Paulus "Wiretaps" was into and what Mos meant by the DEA being one of the reasons this was never solved.  Were they already listening to Paulus when this happened?  Or afterwards?  Is what they heard inadmissable?  Would that prevent it from being used even if verified by another source?  I have always thought that for some reason, maybe under Aruban law it does.

Even after all this time, we still have so many more questions than answers.


.

Sure wish we knew Anna.  If PVDS was being wire-tapped something sleazy and far reaching was going on, I'll bet.

To think I once held such hope that Mos would find the answers.    ...and another one bit the dust!

[klaasend]

http://www.awe24.com/?main&id=2662&offId=0

2 AMBULANS A BAY WAF PA DUNA ASISTENCIA NA UN TURISTA DI BARCO CRUCERO CU A BIRA MALO

2 AMBULANS A BAY WAF PA DUNA ASISTENCIA NA UN TURISTA DI BARCO CRUCERO CU A BIRA MALO
Dialuna atardi a drenta informe cu un turista abordo di un di e cruceronan mara den waf a bira hopi malo y tabata keha di dolor den pecho. Debi cu e victima tabata hopi pisa a pidi pa 2 ambulans pa yuda. Despues di bastante trabao a transporta e victima pa hospital.




Through translator:

2 ambulance owing to bay platform for give asistencia at one tourist of barco crucero cu owing to become bad

2 ambulance owing to bay platform for give asistencia at one tourist of barco crucero cu owing to become bad monday nightfall owing to enter informe cu one tourist abordo of one of the cruceronan mara in platform owing to become much bad y was complain of dolor in pecho. debi cu the victima was much pisa owing to ask for 2 ambulance for help. after of enough trabao owing to transporta the victima for hospital.

[texasmom]

http://www.awe24.com/?main&id=2662&offId=0

2 AMBULANS A BAY WAF PA DUNA ASISTENCIA NA UN TURISTA DI BARCO CRUCERO CU A BIRA MALO

2 AMBULANS A BAY WAF PA DUNA ASISTENCIA NA UN TURISTA DI BARCO CRUCERO CU A BIRA MALO
Dialuna atardi a drenta informe cu un turista abordo di un di e cruceronan mara den waf a bira hopi malo y tabata keha di dolor den pecho. Debi cu e victima tabata hopi pisa a pidi pa 2 ambulans pa yuda. Despues di bastante trabao a transporta e victima pa hospital.




Through translator:

2 ambulance owing to bay platform for give asistencia at one tourist of barco crucero cu owing to become bad

2 ambulance owing to bay platform for give asistencia at one tourist of barco crucero cu owing to become bad monday nightfall owing to enter informe cu one tourist abordo of one of the cruceronan mara in platform owing to become much bad y was complain of dolor in pecho. debi cu the victima was much pisa owing to ask for 2 ambulance for help. after of enough trabao owing to transporta the victima for hospital.

I'm pretty sure that says the tourist was having chest pains.

Thanks for the articles Klaas!  And yes, that other one was about the same possible rape case at Eagle Beach.

[Tamikosmom]

Nice to have you back Janet!

Thank Keepthefaith.

Although there were some distractions to weekend encompassing the Olympic events, out-of-town company and Valentines Day ... I have not been completely idle on the site.  I have compiled info encompassing Paulus van der Sloot's death which has been submitted to the forum and reposted on a topic thread along with "Paulus" quotes from the archives.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=7104.0


Congratulation America on your Gold metal!!!  I saw it happen on our newly acquired large sceen television.  It was so exciting.

Then there is Canada's gold!  The award ceremony is this evening.  This is the first gold that Canada has earned on Canadian soil.

Janet

+++++

[Anna]

They sure are big on ambulances all of a sudden in Aruba.  What happened to just dumping people in the ocean if they collapse or have seizures, etc.?  I thought that was the recommended procedure.  Guess that's only for certain locals to use.

[Lifesong]

Nice to have you back Janet!

Thank Keepthefaith.

Although there were some distractions to weekend encompassing the Olympic events, out-of-town company and Valentines Day ... I have not been completely idle on the site.  I have compiled info encompassing Paulus van der Sloot's death which has been submitted to the forum and reposted on a topic thread along with "Paulus" quotes from the archives.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=7104.0


Congratulation America on your Gold metal!!!  I saw it happen on our newly acquired large sceen television.  It was so exciting.

Then there is Canada's gold!  The award ceremony is this evening.  This is the first gold that Canada has earned on Canadian soil.

Janet

+++++

Hi Janet!

We've been watching the Olympics here too - very exciting!

I've been back in the old threads over the weekend and wanted to bring this forward for you and TexasMom...

 

[Anna]

I have been biting my tongue for about three days now... and deciding if I should say this or not..I have really been tapping toes, rolling eyes and dry heaving all over myself AND I KNEW it was bound to happen.

Paulus was a good man.

Natalee was a whore.

Paulus was a family man.

Natalee got what she deserved.

Paulus was taken way too soon.

Natalee ran away before.

Paulus was a wonderful lawyer.

Natalee used drugs and overdosed herself.

Paulus was the patriarch of the family.

Natalee is dancing in South America.

****

Condolences for Paulus. Pity for Paulus. Sympathy for Paulus. It's understood why he did what he did for his son. And what HE had to endure the last five years. And a screwball from another site wants to volunteer to make a trip to the funeral. Just sick.

Spite for Natalee. Disdain for Natalee and her family. She was an insurance scam. No mention of what Natalee's family had to endure.

There are some people in this hemisphere, especially those with screwed up nicknames, that need to examine their value system and moral compass.

My personal hope is a tsunami hits Aruba and wipes the whole thing clean. And lastly, that God turns old leather face into a pillar of salt, and then the whole thing collapses into the sea under a foam that boils with all the noxious fumes that only hell can create.

Rob, believe me, I know how you feel and am holding back as well.  I did post to Dana on his daily commentary on the Front Page that while I appreciate his sentiments on this, it is far from the usual event as far as a death goes.

My first feeling was neither glad nor sad but just angry.  Angry he died without telling what he knows and helping bring justice for Natalee and angry that he was afforded living out his life and a natural death with no assistance from someone like his drunken, drug addicted gambling son.

All that said, do you know what one of the things said about Natalee and her death that made me the angriest of all?  That thread at RU about "Crab ala Natalee" which they suggested as a new dish made from crabs that fed off her remains.

How's that for respect for the dead from the Sloot supporters?  I know taking the high ground is normally the way to go in situations like this but I am not so sure we are dealing with even humans in this instance.  They have seemed to be subhuman from the start.

So while I am trying not to get too worked up about it all, it's hard not to unleash some choice words that would likely get me banned.

 

[Lifesong]

Tim Miller explained the Germann witness in much more detail than I had heard before....the fact that he came to ALE early Jun 05 with his story....took a polygraph Sep 2, 2008, and Tim confirmed ALE heard from the witness in Jun 05....but that ALE discredited his story.....
But Tim did say the time line made sense, and that he believes joran/paulus could have hidden Natalee that early morning. The FH cage was broken into and paulus/joran could have disposed of Natalee the next night....Tim and Dave found the boat (Gotten...) that had been in the waters for 3 plus years...then immediately dry-docked after Natalee went missing...the family moved back to Holland (and I believe on to Atlanta)...
Natalee was most likely in the cage....mo

Ok, this is starting to make more sense.  Tim pretty much lays out what he thinks happened.  I'd like to see the pictures again of the witness' house in relation to the raquetball club.  If they stashed the body on the first night and Paulus picked Joran up, then went back the next night and took her out to sea in the crab trap - then the whole dropping Joran off at the racquetball club figures in somehow to recovering the body and getting it to the boat.  No?

Lifesong - have you read our In The Face of Evil series?  It lays out the whole next night of the disposal.

Thanks, Jen!  Just finished reading the series again, excellent work from the Freebirds and a much needed refresher for me.

[Tamikosmom]

Hi Janet!

We've been watching the Olympics here too - very exciting!

I've been back in the old threads over the weekend and wanted to bring this forward for you and TexasMom...

 

Thanks ... I have missed laughing girl.

Lifesong ... I hope that you are doing well.  You went through such an ordeal.

 

Janet

[SunnyinTX]

I have been biting my tongue for about three days now... and deciding if I should say this or not..I have really been tapping toes, rolling eyes and dry heaving all over myself AND I KNEW it was bound to happen.

Paulus was a good man.

Natalee was a whore.

Paulus was a family man.

Natalee got what she deserved.

Paulus was taken way too soon.

Natalee ran away before.

Paulus was a wonderful lawyer.

Natalee used drugs and overdosed herself.

Paulus was the patriarch of the family.

Natalee is dancing in South America.

****

Condolences for Paulus. Pity for Paulus. Sympathy for Paulus. It's understood why he did what he did for his son. And what HE had to endure the last five years. And a screwball from another site wants to volunteer to make a trip to the funeral. Just sick.

Spite for Natalee. Disdain for Natalee and her family. She was an insurance scam. No mention of what Natalee's family had to endure.

There are some people in this hemisphere, especially those with screwed up nicknames, that need to examine their value system and moral compass.

My personal hope is a tsunami hits Aruba and wipes the whole thing clean. And lastly, that God turns old leather face into a pillar of salt, and then the whole thing collapses into the sea under a foam that boils with all the noxious fumes that only hell can create.

AMEN ROB!!

[SunnyinTX]

Tim Miller explained the Germann witness in much more detail than I had heard before....the fact that he came to ALE early Jun 05 with his story....took a polygraph Sep 2, 2008, and Tim confirmed ALE heard from the witness in Jun 05....but that ALE discredited his story.....
But Tim did say the time line made sense, and that he believes joran/paulus could have hidden Natalee that early morning. The FH cage was broken into and paulus/joran could have disposed of Natalee the next night....Tim and Dave found the boat (Gotten...) that had been in the waters for 3 plus years...then immediately dry-docked after Natalee went missing...the family moved back to Holland (and I believe on to Atlanta)...
Natalee was most likely in the cage....mo

Ok, this is starting to make more sense.  Tim pretty much lays out what he thinks happened.  I'd like to see the pictures again of the witness' house in relation to the raquetball club.  If they stashed the body on the first night and Paulus picked Joran up, then went back the next night and took her out to sea in the crab trap - then the whole dropping Joran off at the racquetball club figures in somehow to recovering the body and getting it to the boat.  No?

Lifesong - have you read our In The Face of Evil series?  It lays out the whole next night of the disposal.

Thanks, Jen!  Just finished reading the series again, excellent work from the Freebirds and a much needed refresher for me.

Would someone  post a link to this please???

[texasmom]

I have been biting my tongue for about three days now... and deciding if I should say this or not..I have really been tapping toes, rolling eyes and dry heaving all over myself AND I KNEW it was bound to happen.

Paulus was a good man.

Natalee was a whore.

Paulus was a family man.

Natalee got what she deserved.

Paulus was taken way too soon.

Natalee ran away before.

Paulus was a wonderful lawyer.

Natalee used drugs and overdosed herself.

Paulus was the patriarch of the family.

Natalee is dancing in South America.

****

Condolences for Paulus. Pity for Paulus. Sympathy for Paulus. It's understood why he did what he did for his son. And what HE had to endure the last five years. And a screwball from another site wants to volunteer to make a trip to the funeral. Just sick.

Spite for Natalee. Disdain for Natalee and her family. She was an insurance scam. No mention of what Natalee's family had to endure.

There are some people in this hemisphere, especially those with screwed up nicknames, that need to examine their value system and moral compass.

My personal hope is a tsunami hits Aruba and wipes the whole thing clean. And lastly, that God turns old leather face into a pillar of salt, and then the whole thing collapses into the sea under a foam that boils with all the noxious fumes that only hell can create.

Thanks Rob!   

I really had felt bad about at least one post I've made since PVDS died, Dana's words reminded me of that. 

Thanks for reminding me of some of the things that made me willing to ever say such a thing in the first place!

 

[jen3560]

Tim Miller explained the Germann witness in much more detail than I had heard before....the fact that he came to ALE early Jun 05 with his story....took a polygraph Sep 2, 2008, and Tim confirmed ALE heard from the witness in Jun 05....but that ALE discredited his story.....
But Tim did say the time line made sense, and that he believes joran/paulus could have hidden Natalee that early morning. The FH cage was broken into and paulus/joran could have disposed of Natalee the next night....Tim and Dave found the boat (Gotten...) that had been in the waters for 3 plus years...then immediately dry-docked after Natalee went missing...the family moved back to Holland (and I believe on to Atlanta)...
Natalee was most likely in the cage....mo

Ok, this is starting to make more sense.  Tim pretty much lays out what he thinks happened.  I'd like to see the pictures again of the witness' house in relation to the raquetball club.  If they stashed the body on the first night and Paulus picked Joran up, then went back the next night and took her out to sea in the crab trap - then the whole dropping Joran off at the racquetball club figures in somehow to recovering the body and getting it to the boat.  No?

Lifesong - have you read our In The Face of Evil series?  It lays out the whole next night of the disposal.

Thanks, Jen!  Just finished reading the series again, excellent work from the Freebirds and a much needed refresher for me.

YW Lifesong - glad to have you back. 

[Lifesong]

So...where were those polygraph results supposed to be posted today?  Has anyone seen them yet?


o/t:  Thanks you all for your well wishes, etc.  I've had some setbacks and one semi-serious relapse, but overall am still progressing.  It's hard to be patient and "take it easy" when you've always been a "do-er".  I've been told it will take me a full year to recuperate and regain strength and respiratory fitness.  I have been slow to acknowledge the truth in that and in so doing have inadvertently put myself at risk.  I'm only part-time back to work and that may be the most I can achieve, another fact I'm having trouble accepting.  Still, I'm here and that's a beautiful thing!   



Back on topic:

I do wonder, hindsight being what it is, if Paulus and Anita had known in May 2005 that he had less than 5 more years to live, if they would have made different decisions then.  I guess we'll never know.