Humm, a new direction?

[Carnut]

Seems Barack Obama has admitted in a book that he partook of Marijana and Cocaine in his past.

Was this ever considered illegal?

Wonder if he smoked while he was a minor?

Think he ever exceeded the speed limit while driving?

Wonder which laws are 'laws' and which are just guides?

Sure glad the 'right folks' don't ever get in trouble for such things.

[LouiseVargas]

Get a clue, George.  

He outdid any other candidate by admitting his foibles upfront. This was addressed in detail by FOX pundits today. Did you miss it?

[A's Fever]

Hmmm. . . Carnut, you got me thinking (never a good thing, lol!)

My guess is, most people who were young in the 1970's, '80's, 90's and currently have experimented with drugs.  Certainly those who are college educated have been exposed to the easy availabilty of drugs. How does that make them unfit to serve?  

I know I experimented with grass, coke and plenty of alcohol when I was in college.  I never touched drugs after I graduated, but I did develop a drinking problem, quite common on the Irish side of my family.  Once I recognized the error of my ways, I quit, and have not touched alcohol in over 12 years. I am a productive member of society and don't see why I couldn't hold public office, if so inclined.  You live, reflect, and learn.

Is it important to have leaders who are sheltered and saintly?  Is it important to have leaders who have fully experienced the reality of society as it is?  These are questions voters must weigh.

Do we consider youthful experiementation to be so grave, the undoing of society, morally evil and all that?  I personally would have more of a problem with a candidate or office holder who currently has an alcohol abuse problem or who still recreationally uses drugs.  But youthful indiscretions, no.  We need to evaluate the candidates as they are, now.

[Carnut]

Hmmm. . . Carnut, you got me thinking (never a good thing, lol!)

My guess is, most people who were young in the 1970's, '80's, 90's and currently have experimented with drugs.  Certainly those who are college educated have been exposed to the easy availabilty of drugs. How does that make them unfit to serve?  

I know I experimented with grass, coke and plenty of alcohol when I was in college.  I never touched drugs after I graduated, but I did develop a drinking problem, quite common on the Irish side of my family.  Once I recognized the error of my ways, I quit, and have not touched alcohol in over 12 years. I am a productive member of society and don't see why I couldn't hold public office, if so inclined.  You live, reflect, and learn.

Is it important to have leaders who are sheltered and saintly?  Is it important to have leaders who have fully experienced the reality of society as it is?  These are questions voters must weigh.

Do we consider youthful experiementation to be so grave, the undoing of society, morally evil and all that?  I personally would have more of a problem with a candidate or office holder who currently has an alcohol abuse problem or who still recreationally uses drugs.  But youthful indiscretions, no.  We need to evaluate the candidates as they are, now.

Well, I went thru all that and the army and never touched any of that stuff, so I guess I judge those folks by my standards and yes I do think it counts against them for trusted community service.

Don't think I was in anyway sheltered or saintly in my upbringing but I would like someone who really agrees with my understanding of morality and honesty.

[LouiseVargas]

Dear A's Fever,

I enjoyed your post very much.

On FOX today, the pundits were discussing that Obama wrote in his first book "Dreams From My Father" that he smoked pot and tried cocaine. They said exactly what you said ... that anyone from 1970's, '80's, 90's all probably smoked pot in their youth and that pot was not an issue.  They were a little uncertain about the cocaine but gave Obama credit for releasing this information way ahead of time so as to "scoop the media" and put the kibosh on it coming out later in a scandalous manner.

I further agree with you, youthful experiments are just that ... youthful experiments. They don't mean a thing.  Bush 43 was a known alcoholic and cocaine abuser and he never addressed those issues. All he said was it was in the past and had no connection to the present.

[Carnut]

Ok, so it's alright for everyone to 'experiment' with pot and cocaine.

Now what is the definition of 'experiment'? Use once, twice, once a day, twice a day, for a week, for a month, for a year?

At what age is one allowed to 'experiment' and at what age is it acceptable to stop?

Gee, me and my friends sure did experience a different 60's, 70's and 80's than everyone else it appears.

[Carnut]

My head is whirling here, now it was ok for Bush to be a drunk and Obama to use pot and cocaine.

Is there anything that should keep someone from being President?

Obviously sex orgies in the oval office are ok.

Just trying to figure out these new rules.

[A's Fever]

Carnut, I certainly did not mean to put you in a tizzy!

I just think life is messy.  It's not cut and dried, black and white.  I see a lot of grey.  People do stuff, experiment, learn and grow.  I would hate to define any person in  their 40's or older by what they did or thought in their teens or 20's.  

I don't yet know anything about Obama, his politics, or what he revealed in his book.  All I can say is, whatever he did in his youth, he obviously pulled himself up out of it and became a very accomplished man.  Isn't that an American success story?  Personally, I would concentrate on that and not on things he did long ago.

[A's Fever]

Thank you, Louise, I always enjoy your posts as well.  And your adventures  

[LouiseVargas]

I'd say the age of indiscretion is between the years of 18 and 21. After that it should be over if the person is serious about having a future in any field.

Yes, what you experienced growing up in Kansas is completely different from the experiences of people growing up in areas on the edge of intellectual enlightenment such as New York or Los Angeles or Paris.

It was never ok for Bush43 to be a drunk and cocaine addict into his adult life. Bush continued drinking and drugging into his 40s. That goes way beyond the years of youthful indiscretion. It was an addiction that lasted into his middle age.

On the other hand, let's make a contrast to Obama. He said it was a brief experimental episode during the late 70s. Obama is 45 years old at this moment and in his "middle age" and has no record of having used drugs into his adult life.

And further, George, please don't attribute words to me that I never said such as "now it was ok for Bush to be a drunk and Obama to use pot and cocaine. " I do not appreciate that.

[Carnut]

Carnut, I certainly did not mean to put you in a tizzy!

I just think life is messy.  It's not cut and dried, black and white.  I see a lot of grey.  People do stuff, experiment, learn and grow.  I would hate to define any person in  their 40's or older by what they did or thought in their teens or 20's.  

I don't yet know anything about Obama, his politics, or what he revealed in his book.  All I can say is, whatever he did in his youth, he obviously pulled himself up out of it and became a very accomplished man.  Isn't that an American success story?  Personally, I would concentrate on that and not on things he did long ago.

So, you don't think a persons character is formed in their youth?

I suspicion you are wont to rationalize the grey stuff because you feel you can determine your own rules from your own past experience. You chalk this up to learning and growth.

Yes I do see the world differently. I do believe and have always believed things are a whole lot more black and white than you.

I do see that society has changed to a 'anything goes as long as you don't get caught' and now a days you can atone for anything in your youth when you get to middle age.

I think a lot of that goes back to the hippie drug culture and their questioning authority, something I never subscribed to, but it seems to have led to quite a bit more permissive societal values now a days. Not a good thing in my book.

I also blame a lot of lack of appreciation of the law on Jimmy Carters 55 mph speed limit, which about 95% of the drivers disobayed, causing folks to begin disregarding other laws they deemed unreasonable.

Used to be that only criminals disregarded the law, but now adays it's just about everyone as long as they don't get caught or at least have a good excuse for it if they are.

Anyhow, I didn't vote for Bush because he was a drunk. I was ashamed of the disrespect that Clinton brought on the presidency and I for sure wouldn't vote for an ex drug user.

[Carnut]

Humm, 45 yr old Obama did drugs in the late 70's.

Now 1979 was 28yrs ago. So Obama not only did drugs, he did drugs while underage and all is forgiveable.

So no child under 18 should be prosecuted for doing drugs or 'experimenting' with drugs.

Yep, I'm definitely learning the 'new age'.

[LouiseVargas]

The formative years of children are age one through six. After that, their direction is formed. That is their "youth." I was a Psychology and English major. What are your educational qualifications regarding this matter?

If you voted for Bush43, you did NDEED vote for a long time drug user ... he was a cocaine addict as well as an alcoholic into his 40s. If so, you DID vote for an ex drug addict.

So please clarify this sentence you wrote. "Anyhow, I didn't vote for Bush because he was a drunk. I was ashamed of the disrespect that Clinton brought on the presidency and I for sure wouldn't vote for an ex drug user."

[Carnut]

The formative years of children are age one through six. After that, their direction is formed. That is their "youth." I was a Psychology and English major. What are your educational qualifications regarding this matter?

If you voted for Bush43, you did NDEED vote for a long time drug user ... he was a cocaine addict as well as an alcoholic into his 40s. If so, you DID vote for an ex drug addict.

So please clarify this sentence you wrote. "Anyhow, I didn't vote for Bush because he was a drunk. I was ashamed of the disrespect that Clinton brought on the presidency and I for sure wouldn't vote for an ex drug user."

I happen to be a degreed Psychologist as well.

[Carnut]

So please clarify this sentence you wrote. "Anyhow, I didn't vote for Bush because he was a drunk. I was ashamed of the disrespect that Clinton brought on the presidency and I for sure wouldn't vote for an ex drug user."

With all due clarity, I did not vote for George Bush for president because he was a drunk.

[A's Fever]

Louise, I received a degree in English from UC Berkeley!

[LouiseVargas]

Ok George,

Thank you for explaining that you did indeed not vote for Bush43 because he was a drunk.

Regarding being a degreed Psychologist, I don't feel in any mood to grill you to find out more info and if you had a practice. I'm just tired Dr. George.

I agree my vote doesn't count. The elections are run by other entities.

Tired.

PS: So you haven't voted recently?

[Carnut]

Louise, I received a degree in English from UC Berkeley!

I definitely understand your point of view now.

[Carnut]

Ok George,

Thank you for explaining that you did indeed not vote for Bush43 because he was a drunk.

Regarding being a degreed Psychologist, I don't feel in any mood to grill you to find out more info and if you had a practice. I'm just tired Dr. George.

I agree my vote doesn't count. The elections are run by other entities.

Tired.

PS: So you haven't voted recently?

No, I haven't voted recently. Not since Clinton got elected and I saw the futility of it all.

[A's Fever]

Louise, I received a degree in English from UC Berkeley!

I definitely understand your point of view now.

LOL, I'll bet!