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Author Topic: A Terrifying War Has Begun  (Read 26854 times)
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Dihannah1
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« Reply #120 on: August 02, 2006, 10:24:44 PM »

Quote from: "Carnut"
It's not a war between Christians/Jews and Islam it's a war between Islam and Civilization.


Exactly!
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« Reply #121 on: August 02, 2006, 10:30:55 PM »

Thanks Tidy for clarifying.  I have only went on what the MSM has said or the interviews with muslims.  I guess, even Bush's statements to us, after 9/11, not to blame all muslims, only the radical factions....

I appreciate all for providing the history of those countries and the results of the WW wars...

My father was born in  1924 and a Marine for 40 yrs, and he never, ever spoke of any of the wars or his experiences when I was young.  He passed away when I was 18, and unfortunately, I was not interested in history then.  I'd give anything to have him here now to discuss all this with.!

Thanks to all of you for educating me!
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« Reply #122 on: August 03, 2006, 01:47:49 AM »

Hi Dihannah1,

Yes, Bush did not say not to blame all Muslims, only the radical factions.

I have heard many times prominent Muslims say on TV that the current Islamic Jihad does not adhere to the Koran. Yet the Koran says Israel should be destroyed. But there are many, many Muslims who say they do not agree with that part of the Koran.

By the way, Di, we have a lot in common. My father was born in 1912, an Army officer "lifer" who my mother divorced when I was five. I didn't see him again for ten years and at 15, I had no interest in history.

Just like you, what I wouldn't give to talk to him again. I found out years later from his half brother George that he was stationed at the Panama Canal. George sent me my father's khaki green Army hat, a New Year's Eve menu from the Officer's Club in Panama, listing the names of all the soldiers on the back.

Thank you for reminding me,
Louise
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« Reply #123 on: August 03, 2006, 06:16:31 AM »

Quote from: "LouiseVargas"
Hi Dihannah1,

Yes, Bush did not say not to blame all Muslims, only the radical factions.

I have heard many times prominent Muslims say on TV that the current Islamic Jihad does not adhere to the Koran. Yet the Koran says Israel should be destroyed. But there are many, many Muslims who say they do not agree with that part of the Koran.

By the way, Di, we have a lot in common. My father was born in 1912, an Army officer "lifer" who my mother divorced when I was five. I didn't see him again for ten years and at 15, I had no interest in history.

Just like you, what I wouldn't give to talk to him again. I found out years later from his half brother George that he was stationed at the Panama Canal. George sent me my father's khaki green Army hat, a New Year's Eve menu from the Officer's Club in Panama, listing the names of all the soldiers on the back.

Thank you for reminding me,
Louise


I think we have to be careful here guys...there are MANY passages in the Old Testament of the Bible we could pull out that would seem like insanity to us now. I DO believe the majority of Muslims are loving caring people who DON'T believe in the radical interpretations we see with the extremist.
My experience with Muslims has come from the Bosnian community here in St Louis. St Louis has the largest population of Bosnians in the US. As a realtor I have been blessed to work with many of the Bosnian community; the majority of which are Muslim. They are hard working family oriented people who are loving and caring, I have learned much from them. Many are great friends to me!! There is nothing hateful nor evil in their religious convictions. I think if you compare all religions...90% of the lessons are the same, 10% differ...and yet it is the small differences that have caused wars throughout our history. My Bosnian friends take the time to exlain their religious holidays and beliefs to me...I find nothing radical about them!! This is a nation of people who were slaughtered!!! in part because of their religious beliefs...but in greater part...because of politics and fear. I think people sometimes hide their true intentions behind a religious front. What really motivates men to start wars? Fear, envy, greed. The belief that one person has more than another. Evil can be displayed by men of any religion!! and has!! We have many muslims that live amounst us here in the US...and for the most part they are people just like you and I. Share our same goals, to raise our children to be successful, to live the "American Dream" of working hard, owning a home and building a nest egg so that they can enjoy their "golden years" . I don't believe the majority of Muslims are any different than you and I. We are first and foremost...all humans!! With the same needs and wants!! Just as I believe the majority of Arubans are good and law abiding citizens who spend their days just struggling to raise their children, work hard and make a living...so are the majority of Muslims. However...evil walks amoungst us...EVERYWHERE!!! I have told Dihanna I am struggling with the murder of little Jennifer Moore. For some reason her death has really struck my heart and soul...some kind of connection there. Can you get anymore evil than that? It's not like shooting off a bomb...not knowing where or will strike nor seeing it's devastaion. This man brutalized this young baby...in every sense of the word..with his bare hands!! and other parts of his body. Now that is personal....that is evil!! I have to believe in the inherent goodness of man. I HAVE to...no matter what they call God!! But I also have to believe there is a force that works in opposition to God...no matter what you call Him...that is always working against Good. I truely believe we have to be very careful in judging and race, creed or religion!! It is when we begin judging "others" as "different" than ourselves....without really knowing them...that evil takes it's hold on us.
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« Reply #124 on: August 04, 2006, 09:36:35 PM »

The bottom line is that the world has changed. Radical Islamist Muslims are the current day Nazis. But these people are not just seeking to wipe out Israel, they seek to wipe out everyone who is not a Muslim.
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« Reply #125 on: August 04, 2006, 10:49:17 PM »

I'm kinda hoping that the IDF will find a good reason to level Damascus and Teheran in the near future.
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« Reply #126 on: August 05, 2006, 01:39:46 AM »

Quote from: LouiseVargas
The bottom line is that the world has changed. Radical Islamist Muslims are the current day Nazis. But these people are not just seeking to wipe out Israel, they seek to wipe out everyone who is not a Muslim.[/quote

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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« Reply #127 on: August 05, 2006, 08:34:31 PM »

Middle East Report, August 5, 2006

Today I got another email from Rabbi Shlomo Schwartz (known as Schwartzie) and his wife, Olivia who travel to Safed (also known as Zefat) which is considered a very holy city in terms of the Kaballa every summer to teach at the Ascent Institute for several weeks and then come back to Los Angeles.

I posted the first email I got from Olivia on page 4 of this thread, called "Middle East Report." They had to get the hell out of Safed where katushas were landing all around them. They went to Jerusalem, where there are no rockets falling yet.

Rabbi Schwartz has his own style of writing and spelling which takes a little extra effort to read. I was gonna translate it but I decided to leave it as it is. Certain words I will translate in parentheses in red.

Schwartzie on the Front Lines

Part I

We just finished Tisha Bav (remembering the destruction of our beautiful Temple that once stood in Jerusalem) & I am emailing U once again from the absolute Ultimate place 2 B @ this time - across from the Holy Wall! There R thousands of ppl here (All Jews) Davening [praying] 4 the destruction & the war 2 cease, reading the scroll of Lamentations, one of the 24 books of the Holy Bible.

There R dozens of circles of ppl sitting on the floor as is the custom 4 Jews when they mourn & sit "Shiva." [mourning the IDF soldiers killed] Each circle has Jews from a dfrnt custom/culture & thus the enchanting melodies R dfrnt. But it sounds absolutely Beautiful. At 1st it sounds grating & @ variance, but then the cacaphony begins 2 blend til it becomes a collective harmonic convergence tht is quite Uplifting!

Here is a FIRST hand eye witness report of an American-born Yankee (tht'd b me) in a war, in MY country - the JEWISH HOMEland, from a vantage point tht shd B called up front  - i.e. close & PERSONAL (thts when U HEAR the missiles explode NEAR U - which I don't wish on anyone!)
1. A band of Arab Muslims called - "Party of G-D" [God] (Hezbollah), launched an UNPROVOKED attack on CIVILIAN cities, in the ONLY Democracy in the entire Middle East; across INTERNATIONALLY recognized borders.

Next sentence:

2. They set themselves up as a humanitarian org 4 their Arab bothers, in order 2 build hospitals, & schools 4 children, on top of their bunkers where they have their rocket launchers; in effect USING their own "innocent" CIVILIANS as human SHIELDS.

FYI: thts how the village of Qana got destroyed.

BTW: I put quotes on the word INNOCENT above BCZ the Lebanese population (just like the "Palestinian" population did 4 Hamas) VOTED Twenty Three seats into the Lebanese Parliament  to Hezbollah (out of a total of 128).

Imagine if one fine day, Mexico started bombing San Diego. Or Cuba to Miami. How long does anyone think the USA would allow tht 2 continue? Twenty Four hours? Two days? I don't think so. How long B4 we would turn the country of Mexico into a Parking lot?

Anwar Sadat (then the totalitarian  dictator of Egypt) attacked Israel on the Holiest day in the Jewish calendar. [On October 6, 1973 - Yom Kippur, the holiest day in the Jewish calendar - Egypt and Syria opened a coordinated surprise attack against Israel.]

Something tht the entire World would Never have forgiven Israel for, if WE had attacked them on their holiest day of Ramadan. He said then tht,  if he knew tht by sacrificing one MILLION of his countrymen's lives, he could "wipe Israel off the map" (sound familiar?), he would have Gladly been responsible for the death of a MILLION Egyptians. After the YOM KIPPUR WAR he was awarded "The Nobel" PEACE Prize". [After he signed a peace treaty with Golda Meir.]

(Then again so was Yasser Arafat; but don't call it global Jew-hatred or ppl (inc. Jews) will look @ U funny.)  

My realistic estimate, after much study & thought is: I don't think tht in my lifetime I will C the eradication of Anti Semetism.

OK - I have some GREAT uplifting stories and miracles with me returning to northern Israel to Safed for the author of the Kabbalah's (Arizal) Memorial.

I'll save this for Part II

With love and peace , Schwartzie
____________________________________________________
This e-mail is in memory of our fallen soldiers in the IDF
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« Reply #128 on: August 05, 2006, 09:39:59 PM »

Thank you so much for sharing that.  It means so much reading it from somebody who lives it and really knows.

LV,  I felt for some reason we had some things in common.   I appreciate your insight all you right on here .

Thank you!
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« Reply #129 on: August 07, 2006, 12:04:25 AM »

JERUSALEM, Israel -- The Israeli government announced today that it captured a key Hezbollah operative during commando raids deep into Lebanon, and that it was currently holding twenty Hezbollah fighters as prisoners-of-war.


Over the past week, Israel has conducted two deep-penetration operations behind enemy lines, to attack Hezbollah positions in Tyre and Baalbek where they believed civilians might also be present.


Stung by international criticism that it has bombed civilians by accident in Lebanon, "we have preferred to risk the lives of our own soldiers than to kill innocents," military sources told NewsMax.


The Israeli cabinet met this morning in Jerusalem to get intelligence and operational briefings on the fighting.
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« Reply #130 on: August 07, 2006, 02:20:59 AM »

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Advocates of 'proportion' are just unbalanced

August 6, 2006

BY MARK STEYN SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST





"Disproportion" is the concept of the moment. Do you know how to play? Let's say 150 missiles are lobbed at northern Israel from the Lebanese village of Qana and the Israelis respond with missiles of their own that kill 28 people. Whoa, man, that's way "disproportionate."



But let's say you're a northwestern American municipality -- Seattle, for example -- and you haven't lobbed missiles at anybody, but a Muslim male shows up anyway and shoots six Jewish women, one of whom tries to flee up the stairs, but he spots her, leans over the railing, fires again and kills her. He describes himself as "an American Muslim angry at Israel" and tells 911 dispatchers: ''These are Jews. I want these Jews to get out. I'm tired of getting pushed around, and our people getting pushed around by the situation in the Middle East.''

Well, that's apparently entirely "proportionate," so "proportionate" that the event is barely reported in the American media, or (if it is) it's portrayed as some kind of random convenience-store drive-by shooting. Pamela Waechter's killer informed his victims that "I'm only doing this for a statement," but the world couldn't be less interested in his statement, not compared to his lawyer's statement that he's suffering from "bipolar disorder.'' And the local FBI guy, like the Mounties in Toronto a month or so back, took the usual no-jihad-to-see-here line. ''There's nothing to indicate it's terrorism related,'' said Special Assistant Agent-In-Charge David Gomez. In America, terrorism is like dentistry and hairdressing: It doesn't count unless you're officially credentialed.

On the other hand, when a drunk movie star gets pulled over and starts unburdening himself of various theories about "f---ing Jews," hold the front page! That is so totally "disproportionate" it's the biggest story of the moment. The head of America's most prominent Jewish organization will talk about nothing else for days on end, he and the media too tied up dealing with Mel Gibson's ruminations on "f---ing Jews" to bother with footling peripheral stories about actual f---ing Jews murdered for no other reason than because they're f---ing Jews.

On the other other hand, when the leader of Hezbollah, Hassan Nasrallah, announces that if Jews "all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide,'' that's not in the least "disproportionate.'' When President Ahmadinejad of Iran visits Malaysia and declares, apropos Lebanon, that "although the main solution is for the elimination of the Zionist regime, at this stage an immediate cease-fire must be implemented," well, that's just a bit of mildly overheated rhetoric prefacing what's otherwise a very helpful outline of a viable peace process: (Stage One) Please don't keep degrading our infrastructure until (Stage Two) we've got the capacity to nuke you.

Right now, Israel's best chance of any decent press would seem to be if Mel Gibson flies in and bawls out his waiter as a "f---ing Jew.''

What can we deduce from these various acts, proportionate and not so? If you talk to European officials, they'll tell you privately that that Seattle shooting is the way of the future -- that every now and then in Seattle or Sydney, Madrid or Manchester, someone will die because they went to a community center, got on the bus, showed up for work . . and a jihadist was there. But they're confident that they can hold it to what the British security services cynically called, at the height of the Northern Ireland ''Troubles,'' ''an acceptable level of violence'' -- i.e., it will all be kept ''proportionate.'' Tough for Pam Waechter's friends and family, but there won't be too many of them.

I wonder if they're right to be that complacent. The duke of Wellington, the great British soldier-politician, was born in Ireland, but, upon being described as an Irishman, remarked that a man could be born in a stable but it didn't make him a horse. That's the way many Muslims feel: Just because you're born in the filthy pigsty of the Western world doesn't make you a pig. What proportion of Muslims is hot for jihad? Well, it would be grossly insensitive and disproportionate to inquire. So instead we'll put it down to isolated phenomena like the supposed "bipolar disorder" of Pam Waechter's killer.

In the struggle between America and global Islam, it's the geopolitical bipolar disorder that matters. Clearly, from his own statements about "our people," for Pam Waechter's killer his Muslim identity ultimately transcended his American one. That's what connects him to what's happening in southern Lebanon: a pan-Islamist identity that overrides national citizenship whether in the Pacific Northwest or the Levant. Not for all Muslims, but for enough that things will get mighty "disproportionate" before they're through.

Twenty-eight dead civilians in a village from which 150 Katyusha rockets have been launched against Israel doesn't seem "disproportionate" to me. What's "disproportionate" is the idea that civilian life should be allowed to proceed normally in what is, in fact, a terrorist launching platform.

But, when an army goes to war against a terrorist organization, it's like watching the Red Sox play Andre Agassi: Each side is being held to its own set of rules. When Hezbollah launches rockets into Israeli residential neighborhoods with the intention of killing random civilians, that's fine because, after all, they're terrorists and that's what terrorists do. But when, in the course of trying to resist the terrorists, Israel unintentionally kills civilians, that's an appalling act of savagery. Speaking at West Point in 2002, President Bush observed: "Deterrence -- the promise of massive retaliation against nations -- means nothing against shadowy terrorist networks with no nation or citizens to defend." Actually, it's worse than that. In Hezbollahstan, the deaths of its citizens works to its strategic advantage: Dead Israelis are good news but dead Lebanese are even better, at least on the important battlefield of world opinion. The meta-narrative, as they say, is consistent through the media's Hez-one-they-made-earlier coverage, and the recent Supreme Court judgment, and EU-U.N. efforts to play "honest broker" between a sovereign state and a genocidal global terror conglomerate: All these things enhance the status of Islamist terror and thus will lead to more of it, and ever more "disproportionately."

©Mark Steyn, 2006




Copyright © Mark Steyn, 2006


Copyright © The Sun-Times Company
All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.



NOTE:  One of my fav columnists.  I try to always read his articles but this one is just right on target.

Anna
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« Reply #131 on: August 08, 2006, 12:46:27 AM »

Dear Anna,

What a fabulous article!  Thank you so much for posting it. It's absolutely right on target.

As I've said before, I am just stunned to learn there are so many intelligent Monkeys who are pro Israel.

Thank you,

With love,

Louise
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« Reply #132 on: August 08, 2006, 01:44:32 AM »

http://www.gulfnews.com/opinion/columns/region/10058382.html
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« Reply #133 on: August 08, 2006, 06:29:22 PM »

Quote from: "Tylergal"


Ah tyler why'd ya just have to give the link, I hate giving stuff like that the luxury of my hit.
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« Reply #134 on: August 08, 2006, 10:40:13 PM »

I will not do that again, so we do not have to give them more than one hit.  Note the HEADS UP above I posted.  I pasted it. Ta da.
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« Reply #135 on: August 09, 2006, 11:42:23 PM »

Quote from: "LouiseVargas"
Dear Anna,

What a fabulous article!  Thank you so much for posting it. It's absolutely right on target.

As I've said before, I am just stunned to learn there are so many intelligent Monkeys who are pro Israel.

Thank you,

With love,

Louise



 Very Happy Louise,
Well, I didn't write the article, lol!  Wish I had and could but he is just a fav of mine.  Mrs Red calls me Anna Coulter sometimes because I just do not tolerate well the opinion of others when those opinions could well just get me or my future grandchildren killed by some religious extremists.  I just go off on them, can't help it.

Today the ground incursion began and it is already reported that IRANIANs are among the Hezbollah soldiers captured and killed including some stating they were trained in Iran and Syria.

As you know I am not only pro-Israeli but pro-Lebanese and I mean the Lebanon where Christians are not slaughtered and overrun by Muslims who infiltrate posing as nice families, etc. until their number is sufficient to either take over a district completely and chase the Christians and others out or they openly start fighting with them or win by the ballot box in a country not theirs at all.  

You are so correct, Louise, when you state that the goal of the extremist is to eliminate all non-muslims not just from what they consider their territory but the entire world.  Recently they have added Spain as belonging to Islam and the Europeans are too dense and weak to do anything about it as they become Eurabia without a single protest.

 No one with a bit of sense could not support Israel because if Israel loses we lose.  I'm old fashioned, too, and believe God gave that land to Israel and I would have never asked that Israel return one bit won in wars launched against Israel either but be allowed to hold all they could take even if all the way to Cairo, etc.  I am serious about that which some say makes me a Zionist when I am in fact a good Catholic girl.  A country needs to be large enough to defend itself in land area and I don't think Israel is.  Needs buffer zone room considering the neighbors.

We can fight them there or we can fight them here and while my heart bleeds for Israel I would still chose fight them there.  Israel is us right now and they are doing the fighting in our stead just as we are doing it for the rest of the world gone too sorry to even support freedom and democracy any more.  And those too weak-willed to stand up to this now are going to suffer the consequences much sooner than they think.  EU population bailing out in record numbers to get away from the crime and hate of the muslims there are just going to abandon ship or put on their turban in the not too distant future.

I pray for Israel daily.  And if a person thinks they are not supportive of Israel, they should ask themselves whom they would rather meet in a dark ally--a Muslim or a Jew?  Goes to basic values and respect for human life and all that.  We share Judeo-Christian values which are a far cry from those who behead and thrive on death and gore whose goal is our ultimate mutual elimination.

Didn't mean to rant. . . .should not watch the excitable Shepherd Stone.
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« Reply #136 on: August 10, 2006, 10:53:51 PM »

Hi Anna,

Yes, I know you didn't write the article but I thank you for posting it.

Mrs. Red calls you Anna Coulter? That's hilarious, I love it.

In 1974 I had a girlfriend named Georgette Kikano from Lebanon who was a Christian. She told me all about Beirut and how fabulous it was to live there - the Paris of the Middle East. I got an education about Lebanon from her and over the years, I was distressed to see Lebanon go down.

You are right, Anna, in all truth I am glad the fighting in not in the USA either. I believe the world is "letting" Israel fight terrorists so they don't have to. Besides the war for independence in 1948, the longest war Israel ever engaged in was the Six Day War. So it's a nasty surprise that Israel is fighting this war for such a long time. But Israel is not really fighting Hezbollah, it is fighting Iran. And you are right "Israel is "us" right now and they are doing the fighting in our stead."

Frankly, I'm worried. I do not feel positive. When I heard that Iranian soldiers were captured by Israel in Lebanon, I got the feeling that this is a war to the death. Iran is much stronger than Israel. Israel was the mythological mega force that no country wanted to mess with. How the mightly have fallen. Now it's clear that Israel cannot stand up to Iran. But I believe they will fight until the last soldier is backed up into the ocean. And if the USA is fighting Iran by proxy in Israel, the USA needs to get more involved (as horrible as that sounds). But it will never end. I don't see a positive outcome.

You know what? Why don't Israel and Iran just bomb each other and let this be over? The end of Israel will be the end of the world. If this is not the END TIMES, I don't know what is.

Thank you for the rant. And who is the excitable Shepherd Stone? Do ya mean FOX's Shepherd Smith?
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« Reply #137 on: August 10, 2006, 11:39:07 PM »

I want to correct my miss-statement below. I meant to write "Why don't Iran and the USA just hurry up and bomb each other and let this be over?"
*****************
Why don't Israel and Iran just bomb each other and let this be over?
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« Reply #138 on: August 11, 2006, 09:37:50 PM »

I've been glued to the TV all day. This morning I heard that Israel was proceeding with a huge ground force against Hezbollah. I saw the tanks on the move. By this afternoon, Olmert accepted a UN Security Council cease fire proposal. Kofi and Condi are working on the exact terms.

1) The huge ground force offensive of this morning was a bluff. They moved the tanks but were not going to use them.

2) Israel's superior military force is in the air, not on the ground. Even so, no one can wipe out all the Hezbollah cells all over the world.

2) Because Israel could not win this quickly as expected, Hezbollah is declared the victor.

3) Olmert will take the fall for Israel, thus Israel will save face a little due to having an "ineffective leader" and they will elect someone else.
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« Reply #139 on: August 12, 2006, 02:09:19 AM »

Yes, it was nice of the MSM to announce the plans Israel had about advancing.  I have come to despise the MSM.  All of them.
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