Natalee Case Discussion #830 2/25/10 - 3/13/10

[texasmom]

I cannot believe that Joran words in the Range Rover recording are reflecting the truth in regards to Natalee being a willing sexual participant.  Somehow I believe that everybody on this forum is in agreement.

Janet

++++++

DISPOSED - PATRICK VANDER EEM

 JORAN:  There’s a road there. That’s where they dropped me. So I got out and walked with her onto the beach. I was sitting and kissing her, but she didn’t look so good, y’know?

PATRICK:  Aah.
 
JORAN:  And she was quite pale. But she wanted to, she really wanted to, she really wanted to!

PATRICK: Yeah.

JORAN: So I was sitting with her and kissing and fingering her and she had her hand in my pants.

All at once, Patrick (shaking movements).

Why would anyone want to keep putting that statement out there?  It hurts me to read it.
I know it is all lies and I hate for it to be put out on the internet for even more people to read.
Imagine how it makes Beth feel.

I agree Magnolia.

I know what I think about those words.

Joran would never admit to this "friend" that he admired and wanted to impress...that he had a habit of drugging and raping tourist girls on their last night on the "Happy Island". 

That wouldn't give the impression of a real man now would it?

[Mere]

Janet there is absolutely no reason for you to continue to put that trash out there.
These are the words of a sociopath and they are extremely hurtful to anyone who
cares about Natalee.

What you are doing, in my opinion, has no redeeming value.

When I say good night, I leave.......Good Night all....!

[texasmom]

Janet there is absolutely no reason for you to continue to put that trash out there.
These are the words of a sociopath and they are extremely hurtful to anyone who
cares about Natalee.

What you are doing, in my opinion, has no redeeming value.

When I say good night, I leave.......Good Night all....!

Thanks Mere, I agree.   

Good night!   

[Tamikosmom]

I cannot believe that Joran words in the Range Rover recording are reflecting the truth in regards to Natalee being a willing sexual participant.  Somehow I believe that everybody on this forum is in agreement.

Janet

++++++

DISPOSED - PATRICK VANDER EEM

 JORAN:  There’s a road there. That’s where they dropped me. So I got out and walked with her onto the beach. I was sitting and kissing her, but she didn’t look so good, y’know?

PATRICK:  Aah.
 
JORAN:  And she was quite pale. But she wanted to, she really wanted to, she really wanted to!

PATRICK: Yeah.

JORAN: So I was sitting with her and kissing and fingering her and she had her hand in my pants.

All at once, Patrick (shaking movements).

Why would anyone want to keep putting that statement out there?  It hurts me to read it.
I know it is all lies and I hate for it to be put out on the internet for even more people to read.
Imagine how it makes Beth feel.

I have NEVER posted those words of Joran van der Sloot prior to today.

However ... Beth Holloway does not have a problem letting the world know what Joran claimed to have done to her daughter.  Read Loving Natalee.

In the dialogue of the past few days in regards to the most recent Joran "confession" ... nobody has had a problem with the posts that dispicably undermines that character of Natalee Holloway ... posts that implies that she caused her own demise while in a drunken stupor.

Janet

++++++

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 148:  Now it's my turn.  I have no intention of matching her (Anita van der Sloot) good-boy remarks with good-girl comments.  And cut to the chase.  Graphically repeating the very words said by their son a couple of weeks ago in his statements made on June 9, 10 and 13.  The vile account that was read to me in the attorney general's office.  The sexually explicit words used by Joran to describe what he did to Natalee.  Calmer than I have ever been in my whole life and without blinking, I tell them which fingers he said he used.  Where he said he put them.  How their son described my daughter's pubic area, her underwear.  How Joran said she was falling asleep and waking up, falling asleep and waking up.  I tell them of his conflicting stories of what happened, the different places he said it happened.  Little bead of sweat form across Paulus' brow and forehead.

[Anna]

It's not an either/or thing with Joran.  He is not telling the whole truth either in the Range rover or in the latest confession.  At least, I don't believe that he  is.

I keep waiting for him to do exactly as Red said earlier, tell something that only the person repsonsible could have know.  Or at the least, develop a few consistent statements about what happened that carry through all his versions.

And I don't believe all many have to say in all of this.  Certainly not Joran and certainly not one version of his over another.  And not even Kyle Kingman, video salesman. 

The cover up began when Oduber went on Aruban TV and said "We can't have a tourist harmed and possibly murdered by locals."  Every "good" little Aruban set about to see what they could do to prevent this from happening.  Special task force was formed to spearhead it but it was not a concerted effort.

[Tamikosmom]

Kermit

If the archives are disregarded and ... the Range Rover "confession" and/or the most recent "confession" are embraced as the truth regarding the events encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005 ... the following must be assumed:

1.  Natalee was willingly participated in sexual acts with Joran.
2.  Paulus van der Sloot was not involved.
3.  Deepak and Satish were not involved.
4.  The sons of elite were not involved.
5.  The van der Sloot residence is a non-issue.
6.  The observation of the gardener did not happen.
7.  Joran's only crime was the disposal of a body.
8.  The cage/trap discovered by the Persistence and recovered by Aruban divers was a none issue.

IMO ... any "confession" that conforms with the above list is one with the misinformation campaign that has prevented justice from prevailing for Natalee Holloway since the getgo.

Good Night All.

Janet
6:15 PM PT

None of the above "must" be assumed by anyone that is on the side of justice for Natalee.
That list is garbage.

All the above are stated/implied in the Range Rover "confession" and/or the most recent "confession".  Magnolia ... other than the "seizure" segment ... please share "one" truth that was revealed in the Range Rover recording.

Thanks you.

Janet

[Anna]

There is a HUGE difference in Beth refusing to be intimidated by the Sloot smears of Natalee's character and her not caring what was said about her daughter!

You note she does NOT quote what Joran said.  She only makes it known to the Sloots that she will not back down because they are saying these things.  She never repeated them to the world.

What mother would want that repeated and would not care?  Of course she does!  But she would not let it be a cause to turn tail and run home.

[Anna]

Janet, well if you want to argue, I have never understood who these "sons of the elite" are that you speak of.  The Kalpoes are certainly not sons of any elite.  It was already an established fact that Natalee left in their car so they are involved beyond dispute.  Joran ended up going to C&C with those two losers because no one else would go or they were not available.

We don't know who else was involved.  It could well have been other nobodies like the Kalpoes for all I know.  Or one of these Andres.

And you say to think about it.  Don't you think any of us have thought about it for all these long weary years?

[Magnolia]

Janet, well if you want to argue, I have never understood who these "sons of the elite" are that you speak of.  The Kalpoes are certainly not sons of any elite.  It was already an established fact that Natalee left in their car so they are involved beyond dispute.  Joran ended up going to C&C with those two losers because no one else would go or they were not available.

We don't know who else was involved.  It could well have been other nobodies like the Kalpoes for all I know.  Or one of these Andres.

And you say to think about it.  Don't you think any of us have thought about it for all these long weary years?

I have wondered who the "sons of the elite" were also, Anna.

[texasmom]

Janet, well if you want to argue, I have never understood who these "sons of the elite" are that you speak of.  The Kalpoes are certainly not sons of any elite.  It was already an established fact that Natalee left in their car so they are involved beyond dispute.  Joran ended up going to C&C with those two losers because no one else would go or they were not available.

We don't know who else was involved.  It could well have been other nobodies like the Kalpoes for all I know.  Or one of these Andres.

And you say to think about it.  Don't you think any of us have thought about it for all these long weary years?

I have wondered who the "sons of the elite" were also, Anna.

Me too!  Thanks for brining it up Anna!   

[texasmom]

Janet, well if you want to argue, I have never understood who these "sons of the elite" are that you speak of.  The Kalpoes are certainly not sons of any elite.  It was already an established fact that Natalee left in their car so they are involved beyond dispute.  Joran ended up going to C&C with those two losers because no one else would go or they were not available.

We don't know who else was involved.  It could well have been other nobodies like the Kalpoes for all I know.  Or one of these Andres.

And you say to think about it.  Don't you think any of us have thought about it for all these long weary years?

I have wondered who the "sons of the elite" were also, Anna.

Me too!  Thanks for bringing it up Anna!   

edit 

[SuzieQ]

Janet, well if you want to argue, I have never understood who these "sons of the elite" are that you speak of.  The Kalpoes are certainly not sons of any elite.  It was already an established fact that Natalee left in their car so they are involved beyond dispute.  Joran ended up going to C&C with those two losers because no one else would go or they were not available.

We don't know who else was involved.  It could well have been other nobodies like the Kalpoes for all I know.  Or one of these Andres.

And you say to think about it.  Don't you think any of us have thought about it for all these long weary years?

I have wondered who the "sons of the elite" were also, Anna.

Me too!  Thanks for brining it up Anna!   
[/quote


As far as I am concerned, there is NO one on that island that I would call elite.

[carpe noctem]

On a lighter note:

It`s nice to see that Nelson ODuber`s mother is still hanging in there!

[klaasend]

http://stephww.wordpress.com/2010/02/27/from-california/

FROM CALIFORNIA….
By Steph

This week I will be imbedded with Texas EquuSearch. I’m looking forward to spending the week with Tim Miller, and getting a behind-the-scenes glimpse into the work they do. I will be blogging about everything that happens.

So, to start, I am on my way to San Diego to cover the missing McStay Family, a terrible story — hopefully we can dig up some answers as to what happened. How does an entire family of four just vanish?? But as things change, with the breaking news of the Earthquake in Chile, and now a Tsunami headed for the west coast, I may have to switch gears. The bigger issue is will I even get there today? Look at what I’m leaving….

Hopefully, I will be doing the Radio Show from CA on Sunday. My guest is Dave Holloway, Natalee Holloway’s father. We will be discusssing how the news of a new “confession” from Joran Van Der Sloot affects the case and more importantly how this news affects Dave and his family personally.

We may also be headed to Aruba later this week to follow up on this new lead — that Joran put Natalee’s body in the marsh..however far fetched this may be, given the source (Joran himself) the family deserves to have this area searched again..stay tuned

[carpe noctem]

[Magnolia]

http://stephww.wordpress.com/2010/02/27/from-california/

FROM CALIFORNIA….
By Steph

This week I will be imbedded with Texas EquuSearch. I’m looking forward to spending the week with Tim Miller, and getting a behind-the-scenes glimpse into the work they do. I will be blogging about everything that happens.

So, to start, I am on my way to San Diego to cover the missing McStay Family, a terrible story — hopefully we can dig up some answers as to what happened. How does an entire family of four just vanish?? But as things change, with the breaking news of the Earthquake in Chile, and now a Tsunami headed for the west coast, I may have to switch gears. The bigger issue is will I even get there today? Look at what I’m leaving….

Hopefully, I will be doing the Radio Show from CA on Sunday. My guest is Dave Holloway, Natalee Holloway’s father. We will be discusssing how the news of a new “confession” from Joran Van Der Sloot affects the case and more importantly how this news affects Dave and his family personally.

We may also be headed to Aruba later this week to follow up on this new lead — that Joran put Natalee’s body in the marsh..however far fetched this may be, given the source (Joran himself) the family deserves to have this area searched again..stay tuned

Thanks Klaas.

Why doesn't Aruba fly Joran to Aruba,(or maybe heis already there) buy him and shovel and tell him to start digging?
Then make him dig until he finds Natalee's remains...right where he put them.

[Tamikosmom]

OK

I will tell you who the sons of the elite are but ... each of you in exchange must reveal one truth ... other than the seizure segment ... that the Range Rover recording revealed regarding the happening encompassing the events of the morning of May 30, 2005.

The sons of the elite are the suspects who were detained in the Natalee Holloway case other than Paulus, Joran, Deepak, Satish and Steve Croes.  The sons of the elite are those who had parents of influence.

Janet

++++++


SUSPECTS IN THE NATALEE HOLLOWAY CASE

Joran van der Sloot

6/2005 - Suspicion of murder and kidnapping as well as being an accessory to murder

11/2008 - Suspicion of involvement in voluntary manslaughter and causing serious bodily harm that resulted in the death of Holloway.

 
Deepak Kalpoe

6/2005 - Suspicion of murder and kidnapping as well as being an accessory to murder.

8/2005 - Suspected of the primary criminal act of together with other people committing premeditated murder, alternately together with other people murdering somebody, more alternately rob a person of her liberty with fatal consequences and even more alternately, raping somebody and new suspicions.

11/2008 - Suspicion of involvement in voluntary manslaughter and causing serious bodily harm that resulted in the death of Holloway.


Satish Kalpoe

6/2005 - Suspicion of murder and kidnapping as well as being an accessory to murder.

8/2005 - Suspected of the primary criminal act of together with other people committing premeditated murder, alternately together with other people murdering somebody, more alternately rob a person of her liberty with fatal consequences and even more alternately, raping somebody and new suspicions.

11/2008 - Suspicion of involvement in voluntary manslaughter and causing serious bodily harm that resulted in the death of Holloway.


Paulus van der Sloot

6/2005 -  complicity to pre-meditated murder, complicity to kidnapping and murder and kidnapping.


Steve Croes:

6/2005 - Suspicion of murder and kidnapping as well as being an accessory to murder.   


Geoffrey van Cromvoirt

4/2006 - criminal offenses that may be related to the disappearance"of Natalee Holloway.


Guido Weaver

4/2006 - Assisting in the murder, heavy battery and kidnapping" of the teen


Freddy Alexander Zedan Armbatzis:

Nancy Grace - August 29, 2005

NANCY GRACE, HOST:  Thank you very much for being with us, Beth. So much happening. What do you think this means, the arrest of the Kalpoe brothers, and what do you have to tell us tonight -- Beth.

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE`S MOTHER: Well, Nancy, I would imagine that it means that they`ve gathered new evidence to warrant this re-arrest of the Kalpoe brothers. And there`s no way you`re going to convince me that Freddy`s arrest is a coincidence. You know, I`ve seen his name surface throughout my documentation that I`ve been keeping since as early as June 15th ....

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/29/ng.01.htm


'Scarborough Country' - August 26, 2005

LISA DANIELS, GUEST HOST:  You know, if you take the prosecution‘s statement at its face, we are talking on a whole new level, the charges here.  We are talking about drugs.  We are talking about rape and we are talking about rape of many different people.  There are four guys now in custody, four best friends.  What does that tell you?
 
JOSSY MANSUR, EDITOR, “DIARIO”:  Well, what it tells me is that, really, these four guys are friends.  They belong to the same group, these party boys that go out and prey on young, unsuspected girls or other kinds of girls also that are out to have a good time, not suspecting what they‘re in for with these predators around.

And they are—they not only appear in photographs together, but I understand that Freddy lives very near to the Joran house.  So, there is a bond between them.  There is a group that they call themselves the pimps, in which all of these participate.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9119491/


ACCORDING TO DUTCH LAW

Arlene Ellis-Schipper - Aruban Attorney
Nancy Grace - July 20, 2005

ARLENE ELLIS-SCHIPPER, ARUBAN ATTORNEY: There is no grand jury in Aruba. It`s a different system.  You are arrested based on suspicion, on strong suspicion.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/14/ng.01.html


Noraina Pietersz - Aruban Attorney
Associated Press- June 9, 2005

Under Aruban law, only serious suspicion from investigators — not solid evidence — is needed for a judge to rule that suspects can be held, Pietersz said.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8079019/

[Scandi]

http://stephww.wordpress.com/2010/02/27/from-california/

FROM CALIFORNIA….
By Steph

This week I will be imbedded with Texas EquuSearch. I’m looking forward to spending the week with Tim Miller, and getting a behind-the-scenes glimpse into the work they do. I will be blogging about everything that happens.

So, to start, I am on my way to San Diego to cover the missing McStay Family, a terrible story — hopefully we can dig up some answers as to what happened. How does an entire family of four just vanish?? But as things change, with the breaking news of the Earthquake in Chile, and now a Tsunami headed for the west coast, I may have to switch gears. The bigger issue is will I even get there today? Look at what I’m leaving….

Hopefully, I will be doing the Radio Show from CA on Sunday. My guest is Dave Holloway, Natalee Holloway’s father. We will be discusssing how the news of a new “confession” from Joran Van Der Sloot affects the case and more importantly how this news affects Dave and his family personally.

We may also be headed to Aruba later this week to follow up on this new lead — that Joran put Natalee’s body in the marsh..however far fetched this may be, given the source (Joran himself) the family deserves to have this area searched again..stay tuned

Thanks Klaasend for keeping Natalee's thread alive all of these years.     And Hi to our Monkeys here who are all devoted to finding Justice for Natalee.

I'm wondering is the swamp mentioned today on NG, here called a marsh, is the pond by the fisherman's hut or the quarry pond by Joran's house.  Or is it somewhere else on the island?  Ta

[Tamikosmom]

There is a HUGE difference in Beth refusing to be intimidated by the Sloot smears of Natalee's character and her not caring what was said about her daughter!

You note she does NOT quote what Joran said.  She only makes it known to the Sloots that she will not back down because they are saying these things.  She never repeated them to the world.

What mother would want that repeated and would not care?  Of course she does!  But she would not let it be a cause to turn tail and run home.

klaasend
JORAN 6/09/2005 Interrigation Statements 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=160.0

[texasmom]

Hidden camera!