Natalee Case Discussion #830 2/25/10 - 3/13/10

[Scandi]

Has anyone figured out what time the show will be on?

TIA

Hi Texasmom, and thanks to you, Klaasend and Kermit too for the great photos and maps.  That sure is interesting about Bubali.  There is a main entry but it seems accessible from other points, not sure.  It would be a logical place for the mud to suck off one's shoe, eh? 

Is the consensus of opinion that the trioi were waiting for someone to come take her body when seen by the gardener and that person drove a white truck, put her body in the back and then that person drove to Bubali, walked her out a ways and left her in the swampland?   If so I can't imagine them going very far into the park for fear of being seen and think they would put her in the first acceptable spot they came upon.  If there is only one way to enter that park by car I don't think it would be unreasonable to think they'd leave her as soon as they hit the marsh after coming out of the trees.  Did we ever learn what Tim thought of her being put there?

It was dark that night. The weather was something like a storm coming in so that means there would be a lot of cloud cover which make it even darker. So I just don't see anyone driving out to a swamp where it's pitch black and dragging a body into that muddy water area.

Much easier to cover the body with a blue tarp and call DAURY = DADDY!
Get a cage and put the body in the cage and take it out to sea and dump it.

Just so happens out of the 140 targets that the Persistence found, they only dove
on ONE which contained the remains of a body and a blue tarp a few yards from the trap/cage.

$1.7 million dollars was spent and the months of Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb for ONE CAGE/TRAP DIVE.

go figger.

Hi ya Kermit,  I was just working on 'simple is best', as if they knew the swamp would most likely hide her forever, why go to the work and exposure of taking a boat out and dropping her.  Gene Ralston said to me in an email that his idea was the cage was weighted and dropped out by the shelf where it drops off, which is the crab breeding ground.

I also remember that show of Greta's where Jossy talked about Aruba's system of keeping track of boats going in and out, and there was a boat that did leave from the input around the time she went missing.  I think that was about the time when the Holloways arrived and Joran showed up somewhat disheveled.  xox

[Anna]

Should I post what I am told this covers or is that like telling the ending of a movie and spoils it?

[Red]

Just an FYI, it was Jossy who helped get us in the landfill and get equipment. At the time many thought that was where NH was.

He also helped TES search the bird sanctuary with equipment.

Just saying.

Remember folks, he has to live there. There has to be some mingling that one must do. That is just a fact of life.

And he helped DESTINY put an ad in his newspaper!

 

Kermit, no one on this earth is perfect. He has a newspaper, his news paper makes money via ads.

Diario has also covered Scared Monkeys in articles, i think that trumps a paid for ad.

Jossy has also covered the NH story in his news paper in the most fair and balanced and professional manner. Jossy has provided this site with info, accounts, news, pictures and translations.

I can't even get into all of it.

As I stated, you are entitled to your opinion; however, I know first hand what it means to live and work on Aruba and the $#%T one has to do to make nice. That from a foreign national, I cant even imagine what its like to active live there all the time.

In the grand scope of things, Jossy has been a great asset to me, SM, Beth & Dave and Tim Miller and TES. Those are the facts.

Just saying.

[EURobert]

Lie detector test: Joran caused both the death as well as the disappearence of NH!

[Kermit]

Hi ya Kermit,  I was just working on 'simple is best', as if they knew the swamp would most likely hide her forever, why go to the work and exposure of taking a boat out and dropping her.  Gene Ralston said to me in an email that his idea was the cage was weighted and dropped out by the shelf where it drops off, which is the crab breeding ground.

I also remember that show of Greta's where Jossy talked about Aruba's system of keeping track of boats going in and out, and there was a boat that did leave from the input around the time she went missing.  I think that was about the time when the Holloways arrived and Joran showed up somewhat disheveled.  xox

Hi Scandi.

That is interesting - your email with Ralston. 
I agree that swamp would certainly hide something forever even if drained, however I just speculate how dark it is out there, the weather at that particular time and the environment is not conducive to anyone going out there at night time. But I think Joran went there the next evening before dark where he rec'd a phone call from Deepak.

[EURobert]

Lie detector test: Joran caused both the death as well as the disappearence of NH!

He tried to influence the outcome of the test by 'counter-meassuring' i.e. tensing the muscels of his hands or behind or something.

[Kermit]

Kermit, no one on this earth is perfect. He has a newspaper, his news paper makes money via ads.

Diario has also covered Scared Monkeys in articles, i think that trumps a paid for ad.

Jossy has also covered the NH story in his news paper in the most fair and balanced and professional manner. Jossy has provided this site with info, accounts, news, pictures and translations.

I can't even get into all of it.

As I stated, you are entitled to your opinion; however, I know first hand what it means to live and work on Aruba and the $#%T one has to do to make nice. That from a foreign national, I cant even imagine what its like to active live there all the time.

In the grand scope of things, Jossy has been a great asset to me, SM, Beth & Dave and Tim Miller and TES. Those are the facts.

Just saying.

I totally understand more then you may realize.
I was joking around is all.

[Anna]

Lie detector test: Joran caused both the death as well as the disappearence of NH!

He tried to influence the outcome of the test by 'counter-meassuring' i.e. tensing the muscels of his hands or behind or something.

Haha!  Joran would think he was smarter than the machine.  These detectors have become very advanced and sensitive over the years.

[Scandi]

Whoops, correction.   I think that boat was said to have gone out the evening after she disappeared, but I always took that as it could have been that after midnight it was a new day and still dark, so it would still fit.  Hope that makes sense.  xox

Hi Anna, I say go for it!   

[texasmom]

Thanks for the info on the show so far Magnolia, Anna, and EURobert!

Anna, I say "bring it"!   

[EURobert]

Lie detector test: Joran caused both the death as well as the disappearence of NH!

He tried to influence the outcome of the test by 'counter-meassuring' i.e. tensing the muscels of his hands or behind or something.

An expert on international justice (mr. H. Knoops) says that the family of Natalee can with the outcome of these tests possibly win a civil courtcase against JvdS in the US.

[Anna]

EURobert,

Please continue to keep us posted on what they are saying.

I still want to see Joran's tears, too!

[carpe noctem]

Pronkjewail Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:19 pm

They are telling Joran the results of the test. Jaap is there too.

Woman explains to Joran there there are measurements on the test and that he deliberatly tried to influence the test. Joran denies this. Joran smirking again. Jaap asks the woman if its possible if its just a coincidence; the woman says that it happened too much to be a coincidence. Woman tells Joran that he should explain this.

Woman tells Joran that the test says he lied. Joran is smirking again. Joran thinks its a shame that this is the result of the test, denies that he is trying to hide something, says that he is not crazy and that he knows he told the truth. Jaap asks Joran what he thinks that the consequences of this result will be. Joran throws his glass and walks out of the room. jaap goes after him. Joran says that people shouldnt listen to him, since he says a lot. After he says this he looks straight into the camera and smirks.

cont`d

After a year, the friendship of Joran and Jaap ends, since Joran has been lying and deceiving.


After a few weeks, Joran calls Jaap again, since he has problems. His girlfriend in Bangkok dumped him, he got kicked out of school, he has big problems with his parents, moneyproblems...

commercial break.

[Anna]

Part 2

Dompig is on the tv and talks about Joran did get up 24 stories. And he did talk about its good that Joran still speaks and not just shut his mounth. Not matter what he tells.
 
The lie dector is the bigest part now. Jaap ask him what can't we can ask you? He answered you can ask anything.
 
Dompig says with a normal hearing it will not work with him and Dompig says if I got a chance I had used a lie dector to him.
 
He did misleaden this tests. This tests don't work as well. Because he did moved with his legs or hands or did breathing.
The first questions were about the death about this test. The result is a liar.
The second questions were about the disappear about this test. The result is a liar.
The third questions they didn't work.
 
After his lie dector there can't a law case to him in Aruba, the Netherland and as well in the US.
There alone can be a civil case in the United States.
That says Professor lawyer Mr. Knoops.

[Rob]

Lie detector test: Joran caused both the death as well as the disappearence of NH!

but no heavy battery charge - I still don't understand all that.

Thanks for the info EURobert

[EURobert]

Lie detector test: Joran caused both the death as well as the disappearence of NH!

He tried to influence the outcome of the test by 'counter-meassuring' i.e. tensing the muscels of his hands or behind or something.

An expert on international justice (mr. H. Knoops) says that the family of Natalee can with the outcome of these tests possibly win a civil courtcase against JvdS in the US.

After Joran went back to thailand he contacted Terror Jaap for money. TJ said ok but.... They now want to hear him on the five basic questions while on the lie detector.

[texasmom]

Lie detector test: Joran caused both the death as well as the disappearence of NH!

He tried to influence the outcome of the test by 'counter-meassuring' i.e. tensing the muscels of his hands or behind or something.

Haha!  Joran would think he was smarter than the machine.  These detectors have become very advanced and sensitive over the years.

Yep, when I saw them ask the two questions on the preview and Joran responded "no"; I KNEW he was going to show deceptive on those answers!

Wonder how that's going to change his figures on what people in the Netherlands think now!

 

[Anna]

EuRobert, please continue to post as well as we want all perspectives on this and you are so easy to understand with perfect language.

[Scandi]

EuRobert, please continue to post as well as we want all perspectives on this and you are so easy to understand with perfect language.

ITA Anna and thanks to everyone bringing this info.

How did I ever miss Jaap?     He is a friend of Joran's but unbiased?

[Anna]

Yes, the more coverage, the better.  We will get all of it that way.