Natalee Case Discussion #830 2/25/10 - 3/13/10

[klaasend]

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6167920/_Psycholoog_Joran_liegt_weer_.html?p=9,1

Thanks!  Link to the translated page:

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraaf.nl%2Fbinnenland%2F6167920%2F_Psycholoog_Joran_liegt_weer_.html%3Fp%3D9%2C1&sl=nl&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

[blah]

I think the story of her going over the balcony could be true - except she was trying to escape from them at the time, not dance for them.

[natalfan]

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6167920/_Psycholoog_Joran_liegt_weer_.html?p=9,1

Thanks!  Link to the translated page:

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraaf.nl%2Fbinnenland%2F6167920%2F_Psycholoog_Joran_liegt_weer_.html%3Fp%3D9%2C1&sl=nl&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

At this moment 259 comments ,when you read this comments ..... says enough I think

[Tamikosmom]

And yet again, when Tacopina lies, he starts talking faster and louder. He has done this since day one. He knows Joran is involved. He makes me sick.
 

I find it interesting that he found it necessary to go to such lengths to defend Paulus, now that he's dead.  I mean that guy just sat there and lied through his teeth saying the bottom of the pool was dug up???  The house was ransacked by police???

I admire Paul Reynold's restraint this morning.

My guess is that Anita or Carlo will get billed. Joran isn't the only one that likes to get paid for talking.

I agree Buckeye.  It appears Tacopina has sold his soul for a financial benefit.

Thanks for the link.

Janet

++++++

TODAY SHOW - JOE TACOPINA - PAUL REYNOLDS

http://www.clipta.com/Video_New_confession_in_Holloway_case__nMzYzMDE1

[Nut44x4]

And yet again, when Tacopina lies, he starts talking faster and louder. He has done this since day one. He knows Joran is involved. He makes me sick.
 

I find it interesting that he found it necessary to go to such lengths to defend Paulus, now that he's dead.  I mean that guy just sat there and lied through his teeth saying the bottom of the pool was dug up???  The house was ransacked by police???

I admire Paul Reynold's restraint this morning.

Paul Reynol

I was hoping Paul would turned around, double up his fist and slam him right in his lying mouth on national TV.!!

Now, now, now Sunny.....that would be you and me and Carpe and Rob that would do that, not Paul. 

[Anna]

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6167920/_Psycholoog_Joran_liegt_weer_.html?p=9,1

Thanks, natalfan,

I read about 1/3 of the comments.  They are VERY interesting and I don't think I saw even one supportive of Joran.  Some creative suggestions for dealing with him, however.

[SunnyinTX]

And yet again, when Tacopina lies, he starts talking faster and louder. He has done this since day one. He knows Joran is involved. He makes me sick.
 

I find it interesting that he found it necessary to go to such lengths to defend Paulus, now that he's dead.  I mean that guy just sat there and lied through his teeth saying the bottom of the pool was dug up???  The house was ransacked by police???

I admire Paul Reynold's restraint this morning.

Paul Reynol

I was hoping Paul would turned around, double up his fist and slam him right in his lying mouth on national TV.!!

Now, now, now Sunny.....that would be you and me and Carpe and Rob that would do that, not Paul. 

    thank goodness I am in such good company!!

[texasmom]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_69340.php

Google translation:

ARUBA

Disappointing ratings Joran special

March 1, 2010, 13:21 (GMT -04:00)

ORANGE CITY - The broadcast of the most recent confession of Joran van der Sloot, the Dutch television channel RTL 5 on Sunday, has drawn a million viewers. Two years ago, pulled the report of Peter R. de Vries has seven million viewers.

Despite the disappointing ratings remain the Natalee Holloway case, five years later, the emotions involved. Prime suspect Joran again changed his testimony and stated that Natalee crying under the influence of drink and drugs has fallen from the balcony. There would be no intent to have the fatal incident.

Persona non grata
According to reliable sources Joran arrived in Aruba last week Monday. He is recognized in the plane, when he and his mother and brother flew from the Netherlands to Aruba. In February 2008 declared the then Justice Minister Rudy Croes (MEP) have Joran persona non grata. Except for judicial investigation, the defendant no longer welcome on the island. Croes was the symbolic statement with the realization that it is legally difficult for him actually to deny access to the country. "I just did not want him here," said Croes time. The Public Prosecutor (OM) could not confirm this morning that he was on the island. "He or suspect, but there are no conditions to his liberty. It is not relevant. "

Guilty
Remarkably, the OM of Aruba last weekend in the Telegraph announced Joran be regarded as guilty. Chief prosecutor says no evidence, however, have no case. It is the first time that the OM is so clear statements on the blame. "He knows where Natalee is unsuccessful, that is for me is certain. And he saw her last alive, I think even beyond any doubt, "said Whites in the Dutch morning paper.

After the confession of Joran in the spring of 2009, was the interview on August 31, 2009 by RTL to the OM shown. After the Attorney General immediately formed a team consisting of OM and the police, supplemented by a number of Dutch experts, including forensic experts from the Dutch Forensic Institute (NFI). The conclusion based on the study was that the statement of Joran was not credible. What is missing in his last statement is a more precise indication of the location where the body would be left behind. Joran has in interview with Jaap Amesz in to that location in Aruba to be designated. Despite several requests from the OM, however, that Joran has always refused. Pinpointing the exact location is needed for further research: on the swamp covers 685,000 square meters, of which 210,000 square meters. The prosecution appears to be deposited without the voluntary cooperation of Joran research will not yield the desired clarity.

Even a confession to the police is not enough, because without support evidence is not an issue, let the Chief know. He argues that especially in the United States much misunderstanding exists about the European legal system: "In an American jury were two confessions enough for a conviction."

[Anna]

In Aruba, the penalty for drugs is almost non-existent.  I suspect many charges are settled with just a fine, same as with that baseball player who beat up a judge--just pay da money and off you go, free as a bird.

No one is going to dispose of a corpse there because of having drugs in a house!  Joran, like any dull normal ten year old, has long since discovered the art of telling a bad thing about himself or the situation in order to lie about the much bigger thing he did.

 There is definitely that pattern to his lying.  He thinks if he admits to the lesser crime (drugs in the house) the greater lie will be believed.  This only works on parents who are dreadful enablers and don't have the guts to confront their lying offspring. 

How many times has Joran tried this?  Admits to being out without permission to cover for killing.  He also denies his own use of coke and says Natalee and Andre were snorting and provides the "off a door key" detail to make it more believable. 

Remember this is the person who once "confessed" that Deepak did it and buried Natalee beside the fisherman hut--like no one would find her there!

By admmitting to some lesser wrong he or someone with whom he was with at the time, he thinks people will believe him because he was being "honest" about some aspect of things. 

But he even lies about those minor crimes to which he admits!  Someone needs to tell Joran he is lying, everyone can tell he is lying and not one person over the age of 12 believes a word he says because he is a lying liar who lies.  And let him know he is not even good at it. 

His parents should have been doing this from the time he told his first whopper.  Now he thinks he is entitled to be believed.

[Anna]

The point I was trying to make before going off on a rant was that in Aruba, no one would move a corpse, a dead human being, because of having drugs in the house.

The only reason to hide a body is because you had something to do with making it dead.

[Anna]

Thanks, TXMoM,

So he was physically spotted on the plane, placing Joran in Aruba and the immediate proximity of Andre dos Santos.  I would love to be a fly on the wall and hear the conversation that takes place between those two.

[blah]

The point I was trying to make before going off on a rant was that in Aruba, no one would move a corpse, a dead human being, because of having drugs in the house.

The only reason to hide a body is because you had something to do with making it dead.

It was a good post and a good point Anna.  In Aruba, having drugs in the house is as common as salt and pepper, no big deal.  No ones going to get all excited about it.

[blah]

As a matter of fact, I imagine that in Aruba, you might even walk over to the neighbors house to borrow a bag of weed or something just as you night borrow a cup of milk or an egg or something from your neighbor while cooking dinner in the US.

[Lifesong]

In Aruba, the penalty for drugs is almost non-existent.  I suspect many charges are settled with just a fine, same as with that baseball player who beat up a judge--just pay da money and off you go, free as a bird.

No one is going to dispose of a corpse there because of having drugs in a house!  Joran, like any dull normal ten year old, has long since discovered the art of telling a bad thing about himself or the situation in order to lie about the much bigger thing he did.

 There is definitely that pattern to his lying.  He thinks if he admits to the lesser crime (drugs in the house) the greater lie will be believed.  This only works on parents who are dreadful enablers and don't have the guts to confront their lying offspring. 

How many times has Joran tried this?  Admits to being out without permission to cover for killing.  He also denies his own use of coke and says Natalee and Andre were snorting and provides the "off a door key" detail to make it more believable. 

Remember this is the person who once "confessed" that Deepak did it and buried Natalee beside the fisherman hut--like no one would find her there!

By admmitting to some lesser wrong he or someone with whom he was with at the time, he thinks people will believe him because he was being "honest" about some aspect of things. 

But he even lies about those minor crimes to which he admits!  Someone needs to tell Joran he is lying, everyone can tell he is lying and not one person over the age of 12 believes a word he says because he is a lying liar who lies.  And let him know he is not even good at it. 

His parents should have been doing this from the time he told his first whopper.  Now he thinks he is entitled to be believed.

Well said, Anna.  Thank you for putting that into words.  I "co-sign" it! 

[Tamikosmom]

A Theory in a Nutshell

I may be barking up the wrong tree in my speculation but ... here goes.

Anita van der Sloot is OK with Joran's most recent "confession"   It distances Paulus from suspicion and ... it distances the Kalpoes from suspicion ... the Kalpoes who could bring Paulus down if they revealed all.

Unlike the Range Rover recording ... a witness was implicated in this "confession" who will cooperate and declare that he and Joran are indeed guilty of a misdemeanor under Dutch law in regards to disposal of a body after "something bad happened" to Natalee Holloway.

Considering the unchallenged possession of the Persistence find by Arubans only ... the Persistence find deemed by Kyle Kingman to be case related ... evidence pertaining to Natalee Holloway's remains will be located in that swamp?

Janet 

[carpe noctem]

Pouring sweat all up top...


...but just airing it out down below.

I know he was a lazy sloth...

...but I mean c'monnnnnnn.... ZIP IT UPPPPP. LOSER

Ain't nobody wantin' to  see your little tootsie roll, old man.

[Anna]

As a matter of fact, I imagine that in Aruba, you might even walk over to the neighbors house to borrow a bag of weed or something just as you night borrow a cup of milk or an egg or something from your neighbor while cooking dinner in the US.

Exactly!  You sure wouldn't panic over it!  ALE wouldn't bother to search the whole house even if called.  You probably couldn't prod them into searching anything.  They would all stand around, looking fat, and watch the ambulance load the body and try to get in all the gory photos and that's about it.

And if they tripped over a couple of kilos, I am sure Joran could explain that they belonged to Natalee!  And he would be believed because they couldn't prove that he was lying.

 

[texasmom]

Thanks, TXMoM,

So he was physically spotted on the plane, placing Joran in Aruba and the immediate proximity of Andre dos Santos.  I would love to be a fly on the wall and hear the conversation that takes place between those two.

On one of his social pages, a few months ago Andre talks about possibly going to Holland for a while to visit his sister.  And iirc he also mentioned possibly going back to Brazil.  It would be interesting to know where he actually is.  But if he is in Aruba, and runs into Joran I'd love to hear that conversation too.

[Anna]

I don't like that crack OM Blankin made about American juries.  I really think those people believe that a jury just decides on their own guilt or innocence.

Apparently, they don't understand that the jury is read the law that pertains repeatedly, often given a copy of it and can ask for clarification for any part of it during deliberation.

They seem to think that a jury is at liberty to just make up their minds based on a whim or their own concept of right and wrong.

I think they are opposed to juries as they involve 12 people instead of one very bribable or blackmailable judge.  They don't seem to have any appreciation for the fact that all 12 have to vote guilty and it is hardly done on a lark.

Joran is unstable, out of control and has been linked to at least one disappearance and may well be delusional so why is he not in custody as a danger to himself and/or others?

[Anna]

And then again, Andre may be afraid he will fall off a balcony, hit his head and end up in a swamp himself or a fish trap in the crab beds.  I sure wouldn't want that lunatic Joran after me!  Yet he is allowed to just go about his merry way.  Unbelievable!