Natalee Case Discussion #830 2/25/10 - 3/13/10

[Anna]

So this Friend A has been questioned twice before and may or may not be a member of LE, according to Joran?  And his mother has given him an alibi.  And he may be 20 years old or was at the the time.

Rob, at one time that AB person was identified but I can't remember who it was.

[carpe noctem]

Her body mass during the searches never found, Joran shall not explain. "I think I've just been lucky, lucky that I've had angel on my shoulder."


If that doesnt open up a window as to just who you are dealing with...

You need a MED CHECK, esey! come across....

This is who he was THEN.

This is WHAT HE STILL IS TODAY.

[SunnyinTX]

At some point he's gonna say that his accomplice is a leather-faced hag with tons of kids by multiple baba dadas... who carries a camera and a wicked case of booze breath...

wonder how funny it will be then   

I have been  reading............taking it all in....but I had to let you know this is the best ever description I have ever read of julia..........ohmygawd....thanks for the laughs Rob..only tjing you forgot was the fake accent

[Rob]

he looks deliciously kronk'd to me 

[texasmom]

So this Friend A has been questioned twice before and may or may not be a member of LE, according to Joran?  And his mother has given him an alibi.  And he may be 20 years old or was at the the time.

Rob, at one time that AB person was identified but I can't remember who it was.

If this one was ever positively identified, I missed it.  I've posted some what I considered "possibilities" as I've come across them.

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2006_04_23_archive.html



snip:

Last Saturday, the 22nd of April 2006, police detained a male by the initials of A.B. of 20 years of age, related to the disappearance of N. Holloway. After 6 hours of interrogation, the young A.B. was set free.

snip:

[SunnyinTX]

Kermit!  lol...

this picture looks like he is trying to pass gas

[EURobert]

Just in SBS6 Shownews the first images of the interview JvdS with TerrorJaap: Joran crying... and crying... and crying...
Makes me curious. Can he 'act' that?

[Rob]

So this Friend A has been questioned twice before and may or may not be a member of LE, according to Joran?  And his mother has given him an alibi.  And he may be 20 years old or was at the the time.

Rob, at one time that AB person was identified but I can't remember who it was.

I heard who it was alleged to be.. I just don't know if it's true...

I'm hesitant to say it again.

This person was 20... but I have no idea if he was a drug dealer nor a cop. I didn't hear that before.

[texasmom]

At some point he's gonna say that his accomplice is a leather-faced hag with tons of kids by multiple baba dadas... who carries a camera and a wicked case of booze breath...

wonder how funny it will be then   

I have been  reading............taking it all in....but I had to let you know this is the best ever description I have ever read of julia..........ohmygawd....thanks for the laughs Rob..only tjing you forgot was the fake accent

I agree, I laughed out loud on that one!

Can't forget that accent, whatevahhhh it's supposed to be! 

Carpe's earlier post about Joran having gas had me laughing too!   

[Kermit]

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6448.msg1034783#msg1034783

HOW THEY HIDE HE EVIDENCE

According to Carlos,[Cumpa] while driving to Eric Mansur's home a little before three that morning, he took a shortcut, a dirt road through a vacant lot beside the Marriott. To his surprise, he found a car blocking the road. Beside the car were two large mounds of dirt. When he peered into the car, Carlos said, he recognized Joran and the Kalpoes. He said they covered their faces. He then drove on.[He] claimed he had seen Joran and the Kalpoes digging.
 
)VANITY FAIR ARTICLE)

Paulus took Joran to the Polis station after he picked him up from school.
Well, he didn't go to the Noord Polis station that he went to when Beth arrived at their home the first time. Instead he went to the Bulbai.
WHY go there when the Noord polis station is closer and he was there the night before?

Just so happend the Bulbai Polis station is next to the Wyndham Hotel.
There is some golf range on the other side.






The Bubali Bird Sanctuary lies only ~5km north of Oranjestad on the west coast of Aruba. Highway 1 runs along the sanctuary`s east side, a windmill (actually shipped from Holland) is on the north side, and the massive Wyndham Aruba is across the street from the northwest corner. There are several spots to check at Bubali. Going N from Oranjestad, you`ll encounter a roundabout, with the right hand (eastward) road marked to Paradera. Continue straight (north) to the first light. Turn left here, and a small sewage pond (Yes!) will be quickly visible on your right.
http://www.fatbirder.com/links_geo/america_central/dutch_antilles.html


At approximately 17.00 pm, I was dropped off by my father at the Raquet Club.
KEEP IN MIND THE RACQUET CLUB IS THAT CLOSE TO THIS AREA.See the hotels
in the background of the tennis court.






LOOK at the hotels in the background of this picture which is the playground by the Racquet Club

 "The lily pads were strong enough to hold a body down, which made searching the area mus more tedious." (Dave Holloway book)

WE BELIEVE AFTER JORAN WAS DROPPED OFF AT THE RACQUET CLUB - BETWEEN SIX AND SEVEN PM THAT JORAN WENT TO THE BIRD SANCTUARY WITH THE BAG, WEIGHTED IT DOWN, AND PUT THE BAG THAT HAD ANY EVIDENCE IN IT IN THE SANCTUARY, AND THEN HAD TO BE BACK TO THE RACQUET CLUB BY SEVEN. PLEASE TAKE NOTE OF TWO FACTORS:

1) JORAN TOOK A BAG TO THE RACQUET CLUB AND TALKED WITH KOEN, PAULUS STATES HE BROUGHT JORAN'S BAG TO HIM AT 8 PM. HOW CAN THAT BE IF JORAN ALREADY HAD HIS BAG WITH HIM? BECAUSE HE USED ONE BAG TO TAKE THE EVIDENCE TO THE BIRD SANCUTARY WHILE CALLING PAULUS AT 7 PM AND THEN PAULUS ARRIVES AND DELIVERS THE 2ND BAG WHICH JORAN JUST HAPPENS TO LEAVE BEHIND THE BAR AT THE RACQUET CLUB WHERE EVERYONE CAN SEE IT IS HIS BAG RATHER THEN PUT IT INSIDE HIS LOCKER

.2) JORAN TALKED TO DEEPAK ON THE PHONE AND WHEN DEEPAK CALLS HE TELLS HIM HE IS AT THE WYNDHAM TO COVER IF ANYONE HAS SEEN HIM IN THAT AREA - KNOWING THAT THE CELL PHONE CALL CAN BE TRACED.

THE BIRD SANCTUARY IS RIGHT NEXT TO THE WYNDHAM HOTEL... he then left the racquet club and they took the boat out to dispose of  Natalee in it




On that same trip (September), my father-in-law, Melvin Parten, accompanied me at 5:30 a.m. to the island bird sanctuary. This was where it had been reported that the cadaver dogs had some hits, but it was unclear whether it had been thoroughly searched. It is 20 acres of waist high stagnant water with lily pads, which we walked through for over three hours looking for clues about Natalie. We did not realize that the water would be so deep and that the roots of the lily pads would obstruct our efforts to cross or search the water. Not only would the lily pads obstruct our search, but we also realized that they were strong enough to hold a body down, which made searching the area much more tedious. Climbing up the bank on the grass was very difficult. Our attempts to go through the grass were almost impossible, and we felt that if someone were carrying 105 pounds, they could not have gone very far. We waded around for over three hours until the fatigue and heat set in. We knew we needed more help to clear this area. I remember hearing that Joran has lost his sneakers near McDonald's, which is right next door to the
sanctuary.[colocr=red] I almost lost my own shoes walking through the mud, so I believe that Joran's sneakers may be in there.[/color]
When my father-in-law and I were finished searching, the stench on us was so bad that we had to take the floor mats from the car to put them on the seats to sit on. We drove straight to the ocean and jumped in to clean the sewage off before going back to wash our clothes. We had to wash them them twice to get the smell out. (Dave Holloway page 57 -- )


When arrived there the silver car appeared to be there. The door at the driver’s side was open. Joran approac h ed the group, with Deepak Kalpoe at his side, and began talking to the police officer. Seeing the clothes that he had on at that moment, it did not appear that he had just before been in a casino. Afterwards Joran wanted to approach mrs. Holloway, but interestingly enough . . .


6:00 DEEPAK SAYS HE CALLS JORAN AND JORAN SAYS HE IS AT THE WYNDHAM WITH GUIDO
-this is the same time Joran said he was playing tennis, which he has admitted he wasn' t doing

why did he need to include this, that says he was somewhere in that area?
 

[BUCKSHOT]

Deepak/Satish: Hey Joran, don't forget to distance us when you give this new story. May is coming soon...

Joran: OK, make sure you give me the million that you promised.

[Kermit]

Kermit!  lol...

this picture looks like he is trying to pass gas

Yes, it does look like he's trying to grunt out more lies. Poor lad. Chip off the old PAPA.

[Tamikosmom]

Aruba Prosecutor: Hundreds Questioned in Natalee Holloway Case
Thursday, April 27, 2006

Police have said nothing about their latest arrest, of a 20-year-old man, identified by prosecutors by the initials A.B. He was released after six hours of interrogation on Saturday.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,193408,00.html

[Kermit]

Deepak/Satish: Hey Joran, don't forget to distance us when you give this new story. May is coming soon...

Joran: OK, make sure you give me the million that you promised.

LOL Buckshot - Red should do another photo caption contest on the front page.

[jen3560]

OK so what we have so far:

1 - 20 yr old Aruban
2 - Drug dealer in the hotels
3 - At his father's house
4 - Mother alibied him
5 - Gave 2 witness statements
6 - Blood below his balcony
7 - Blood in his car
8 - Name (either first or last) begins with A
9 - Disposal in Bubali Bird Sanctuary - from the only entrance to it there is, walked as far as they could

How many statements did Freddy give?

[klaasend]

Posting to see if there is any difference in translation:

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2010/02/holloway_fell_over_balcony_say.php

Holloway fell over balcony, says Van der Sloot

Friday 26 February 2010

American teenager Natalee Holloway was killed after falling off a balcony at a friend's home after drinking whisky and taking cocaine, main suspect Joran van der Sloot is reported as saying in a German tv interview.

The Telegraaf, which has seen the 2.5 hour interview, says an emotional Van der Sloot made the confession in a hotel room in Dusseldorf.

Former police chief Gerard Dompig, who was involved in the initial investigation into Holloway's disappearance on the Caribbean island of Aruba in May 2005, says he believes the claim is worth further investigation.

Van der Sloot's new story fits with the time line and is very specific on the details, he told the Telegraaf.

Aruban officials have already dismissed the new statement as 'fantasy and lies'.

Whisky

In the statement, Van der Sloot says he, Natalee and another friend went to the friend's house where they took cocaine and drunk whisky.

Natalee climbed on to the edge of the balcony, he said. 'I think she was really drunk, so she started doing a sort of half strip tease, like she did on stage at Carls & Charlies,' he said.

'I walked to her to dance with her a bit, and I held her hips and when I let go she fell over the balcony.'

When the two ran down stairs, they found Natalee on the ground with a lot of blood. 'I think she hit the ground with her head first,' he is quoted as saying.

The two young men then put the body in a car and hid it in a swamp where he lost a shoe, he claims.

Alibi

The other youth has been given an alibi by his mother, the Telegraaf reports.

The new confession will be broadcast on RTL5 on Sunday night.

In 2008, Dutch tv crime journalist Peter R. de Vries claimed he had solved the mystery surrounding the girl's disappearance using a plant and a hidden camera.

During the programme, Van der Sloot told the plant, who was working for De Vries, that the girl was completely drunk and died while they were on the beach. Her body, he said, was dumped at sea.

© DutchNews.nl


http://www.expatica.com/nl/news/dutch-rss-news/natalee-holloway-died-after-fall,-suspect-says_26406.html

[EURobert]

Just in SBS6 Shownews the first images of the interview JvdS with TerrorJaap: Joran crying... and crying... and crying...
Makes me curious. Can he 'act' that?

One person that was interviewed in the preview that just aired said that Joran gave a rather detailed account of what happened: how she lay on the ground with her chin in a specific way and in a pool of blood. That made him think the interview could be more true than he first expected.

[Kermit]

Just in SBS6 Shownews the first images of the interview JvdS with TerrorJaap: Joran crying... and crying... and crying...
Makes me curious. Can he 'act' that?

Does a bear poo poo in the woods
 

[Buckeye]

Translated report from the investigative reporter that followed up on the story for RTL (warning:very long):

In the footsteps of a ... liar?

T he entire interview with Joran van der Sloot is RTL5 available. Roel Geeraedts cameraman and reporter John Kwant traveled to Aruba for the story to run.

Roel Geeraedts
  "Can you leave today," asked my editor. "Yes, of course. Not a day later begins a bizarre quest to Aruba. Together with cameraman John Kwant walk me step by step the story that after the interview, Joran. Is it actually true? Because we are dealing with Joran van der Sloot who says of himself a "pathological liar" to his.


Our first goal is determining where the house of the boy Joran designates as an accomplice. I have his name and address. In the interview that Joran describes about 5 minutes walk from the beach. On the map I see all that the address can not simply correct. Anyway, I walk from the beach to that house again, all in the north of Aruba. After 40 minutes walking through the sun I am. I meet an unfinished house, located on a nearby ruin and people say it so many years
assisting.

The house next to it then! Meeting the description! Maybe Joran after all these years in the wrong house number. It has a balcony (according Joran Natalee is a balcony of cases), it is a big white house. It is also for sale again! I call the agent and one days later we visited the house. John films the house and the balcony. Is this the place? No, that will emerge later, when we see that Joran has signed card. The information in the interview Joran, is false. Did he just lied again? "We have to find that house and make sure that the boy lived there", we say to each other.

It is a verifiable fact that Joran empowering. And if all that is wrong ... Do they have gone ... We literally walk the route after Joran described. We start at the spot on the beach which he says happened to Natalee have located. We walk back towards the big hotels and at Moomba Beach Bar we leave the beach. After stabbing a few minutes we see a road and a dry swamp. So far so good, it corresponds to Joran's story.

What house can it be? After hours the entire area we also have scoured the car, we keep two houses on matching the description of Joran, an "educated guess". We need security. John suggests to call the tennis club where his friend and family member. Brilliant idea. I call and ask for the address of the father of the boy. The secretary knows to tell right away that they are moved and they give me the mobile number of the mother of the boy. Aruba is so small, everyone seems to know each other.

With a pounding heart, I call her. I come up with an excuse and say I want some info on a house I might go buy and where they lived. "You used to live in Palm Beach, number 'X', right?" (a pure guess because we had two possible house numbers.). They answer: "Yes". I verify the number again. Bingo! The family of that friend of Joran, the house is sold and moved, a few months after the disappearance of Natalee. Hard evidence!

Joran with new explanations
To be sure we get to the register the notarial deed on the sale of the house (the transfer took place on November 1, 2005, the mother said she moved in October 2005). Incidentally, I ask whether in the name of the seller, the father of Joran friend, more real estate registration. You owe me a document that shows: the family had then, in 2005, two houses on Aruba.

The man who gives me the details, my passport would have to make a slip. Better not, I think. I'm afraid that someone finds out we are doing with this case. Paranoia? Yep! A little. We step back in the car, this time armed with cameras. We want pictures of the house which Joran says Natalee Holloway there life left. Where, as Joran telling the truth, snorted coke, drank whiskey, danced and fell.

Problem! The current owners, Dutch, his home. "Just" anything from the street shots is not there. I simply see no other solution than re-inventing a list. "Hello, RTL and we are working on a story about the real estate market in Aruba. Do you mind if we film the exterior of your house?".

The man takes the great house that we are filming. We praise his beautiful house. The man says that he himself has grown considerably. He invites us from within himself a way to get the swimming pool at the back run. The man says that the hotel where he looks and that is under construction, should have been much greater but that the current financial crisis makes it impossible. "Maybe now I'm very cheeky," says John, "but I would offer it here may shoot from the balcony?".

A little later I see how John is on the balcony, his camera hangs over the railing as if he himself is over. John is on the balcony from where Natalee might have fallen, if we are to believe Joran. Except that we now have to check Joran story, we also have fantastic imagery.

The Bubaliplas, Natelee here would have left by Joran and his friend. Or is it a bird, it is also the drain of Aruba. The sewage from the island is pumped in, after it is purified through a sewage treatment plant, but that does not work quite right. With the car we hit the paved road and a sandy path from a watchtower.

At night it is pitch dark here are. No one you see here. On the banks of the lake is much reeds. It is remote. Would they lie here, we ask aloud. It is a strange idea to stand in the place where Joran says he and a friend of Natalee's body has left. "As we dragged her into the swamp," says Joran literally in the interview. We are indeed in a swamp. To be safe we drive once around the lake. We save every dirt road in which we encounter. Most walking dead. We try to imagine that we ourselves want to lose a body. What would you do?

At one place, at the end of a dry piece of swamp, so you can run in the Atlantic. There you'll be visible from the road. Therefore it seems strong that this is the place to be. Want to get there, the boys first towards the south drive, then a 'u-turn' make to drive back towards the north. Illogical, but it could also, in addition: what could be more logical to what Joran did that night?


Even though the drawing is not entirely clear, hold the clues and not about Joran has lied so often: the muddy pool at the tower, the place that Joran now designates. Maybe it through the reeds to the Atlantic run. Then you have a huge hurdle to take. The reed's so close, at least one strip of 40 meter and only then reach the Atlantic. My cameraman, John, is a piece from the road and caught up the cane was barely through. Furthermore, chances are you among the welts, scratches and cuts get caught.

The next day we go back to the camera. We bought water shoes in diameter, because this visual story telling and good that we have to pee. If only because we want to know how deep that pool is. The deeper the water, the more the dung starts to smell when my feet sink. It is really dirty! If we are not spotted! Yet there is a Jeep riding. Ai. The driver looks me right in the pool and are going off again like a spear, with a cloud of dust behind him.

We are now very suspicious and afraid that someone will discover we are doing. John turns and get some shots even in those stinking puddle. I see him with the camera skims just above the water, like an iguana (Iguana as hot one here in Aruba). "Reserve-Joran. We also want to run a shot that gives an overview of the Bubaliplas. We drive to a hotel near high and ask if we may move to the roof. That may. A security guard accompanies us. He asks whether we are engaged in a topic about Natalee Holloway. Gasp! No, that's an old story, we say convincingly, "play that?".

But what appears nou: the saver from the hotel proudly tells that he was the man in a reconstruction of Peter R. de Vries, 'Joran' played! "This has then yielded much hassle. That they have used a local person, while Joran is blank," he says. How is it possible? How small is this island? We stand with reserve Joran! And filming the spot where the real Joran says Natalee that he has left!

The story lets us not loose. Already we are on the beach and see a beautiful sunset, we think much after, talking and philosophizing are merrily loose. Forgotten something? What can we check? That friend Joran now designates as an accomplice, was interrogated by the police in 2005. He had a watertight alibi. He was with his father went home and was the next morning with his brother and sister to school.


The house that we have seen, well, according to Joran was nobody there. I'm looking for an explanation. Maybe sat the whole family in another house that they have on the island? It could. It was then probably already available and perhaps the house was empty? Pure speculation, but still ...

At night I search the Web for the profiles of that friend of Joran. He writes a blog and it describes how he party, zuipt and how unhappy he is sometimes. I'm no psychologist, but what Joran says is true and you are such a secret for more than four years carry with you, you can hardly sit happiness. Like the boy's father also put many photos on the Internet. I am almost embarrassed when I complete photo albums of that family is viewing.

From the Netherlands John and I get more questions from friends and colleagues. "Where do you hang out?". We can say nothing, because that would leak the story to. This should absolutely not! We are not in Aruba! Not necessary because we are a "first" to have, but we would thus justice to the feet can walk. John and I know very well that this story is Joran. Our sole aim is to produce the RTL Nieuws as possible to report.

What a bizarre story that is yet. Although John and I have many reports have created, this is not our clothes sit in the cold. We try to make a story about a terrible human tragedy, a tragedy for Natalee and perhaps even a greater tragedy for her parents, who live in uncertainty for years. John himself has children, the story touches him: "I would go crazy if my daughter would be". We hope to start growing faster Joran finally told the truth, so one can end the search for Natalee Holloway.

Roel Geeraedts

http://www.rtl.nl/%28/actueel/rtlnieuws/blogs/blogs_overig/%29/actueel/rtlnieuws/blogs/blogs_overig/articles/26_februari_2010_1267190259357.xml

[EURobert]

Just in SBS6 Shownews the first images of the interview JvdS with TerrorJaap: Joran crying... and crying... and crying...
Makes me curious. Can he 'act' that?

Does a bear poo poo in the woods
 

Well, he had the time to prepare, so...

Here a link to the preview: http://www.shownieuws.tv/web/show/id=186479/langid=43/contentid=148846