Natalee Case Discussion #830 2/25/10 - 3/13/10

[Red]

Kermit, no one on this earth is perfect. He has a newspaper, his news paper makes money via ads.

Diario has also covered Scared Monkeys in articles, i think that trumps a paid for ad.

Jossy has also covered the NH story in his news paper in the most fair and balanced and professional manner. Jossy has provided this site with info, accounts, news, pictures and translations.

I can't even get into all of it.

As I stated, you are entitled to your opinion; however, I know first hand what it means to live and work on Aruba and the $#%T one has to do to make nice. That from a foreign national, I cant even imagine what its like to active live there all the time.

In the grand scope of things, Jossy has been a great asset to me, SM, Beth & Dave and Tim Miller and TES. Those are the facts.

Just saying.

I totally understand more then you may realize.
I was joking around is all.

Ok, just making sure.

Gee, JVDS is all choked up, that makes me believe him 100%. Who knew a tear and a lump in Joran's throat would be able to convince me. (OK, where is my sarcasm button)

[Rob]

I, for one, think Joran is sooooo messed up that maybe his bio-rhythms register in reverse. 

He tells the truth and the machine says he's lying! 

One thing's for sure - he's a meat-head, dead from the neck up!

[klaasend]

Should I post what I am told this covers or is that like telling the ending of a movie and spoils it?

Please post, thanks Anna!

[EURobert]

Lie detector test: Joran caused both the death as well as the disappearence of NH!

He tried to influence the outcome of the test by 'counter-meassuring' i.e. tensing the muscels of his hands or behind or something.

An expert on international justice (mr. H. Knoops) says that the family of Natalee can with the outcome of these tests possibly win a civil courtcase against JvdS in the US.

After Joran went back to thailand he contacted Terror Jaap for money. TJ said ok but.... They now want to hear him on the five basic questions while on the lie detector.

Joran (not on lie detector yet): while walking on the beach we met an old (tennis-)friend who invited them to his house. (Joran looks as if he's in the lying mode again). We went with him to his house drinking and having coke on his balcony. When we sat on the balcony she stood up to dance and when I tried to grab her she fell.

[klaasend]

Lie detector test: Joran caused both the death as well as the disappearence of NH!

He tried to influence the outcome of the test by 'counter-meassuring' i.e. tensing the muscels of his hands or behind or something.

An expert on international justice (mr. H. Knoops) says that the family of Natalee can with the outcome of these tests possibly win a civil courtcase against JvdS in the US.

IMO, Joran drugged Natalee and that's why she died.  Who was there when it happened is another thing all together and I suspect PVDS may have been there when she died too.

[carpe noctem]

Pronkjewail Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:28 pm


The liedetectortest is before he talks about the balconystory. So far he told Jaap that he sticks with his official story. Jaap then said that he should do a lie-detectortest. Which he did.

It started again...

Jaap pays Joran a couple of 1000 euros to have a talk in aug 2009. This is the footage in the hotelroom with the red shirt on.

Joran says that he realises that there could be consequences but that he wants to talk.



cont`d


Police-people (fe Dompig) are saying that its good that Joran keeps talking.

Interview in Dusseldorf. Joran says that he thought about telling the truth during the liedetectortest but he didnt. He now thinks that he should tell the truth so people could get peace and he can leave everything behind him.

Joran says he was 17 at the time and that people of 17 sometimes do stupid things. He now knows its a good decision to talk. Joran looks sad. Isnt crying.

Jaap asks him if he can take away the pain by people involved. Joran says that he thinks that answers could help people involved to go on. Jorans voice is trembling a bit.

Joran says that he at times is very depressed. He thinks it hass to do with the case. He says that he waited this long because there wouldnt be just consequences for him, but also for other people too.

Joran always told Jaap that 95% of his book is true. The part on the beach is the other 5%. Joran says that everything he says is true for 95%. Joran says that Paulus always said that he should go to the police if he had something to say. Joran says that he cannot walk the street in Holland anymore. And that his dad couldnt be a judge anymore.

[carpe noctem]

Pronkjewail Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:39 pm       

Joran talks about the night he met Natalee. They didnt have a date, they just met later on. They went to the beach. Joran says that isnt true. They walk towards her hotel and then I met PEEP. A friend of his that he knows from the tennisclub. The friend was on his way home. Friend asks Joran what they are going to do. Friend invites them to his house. Natalee had a lot to drink, Joran didnt. Joran knew the friend for a long time, and his dad too. They used to play poker.

They went to the friends house. Went to drink on the balcony. Friend had cocaine. Joran denies using drugs until then. He says that back then he didnt even smoke cigarettes. Joran says that Natalee was dancing on the balcony, and when he walks to her, she fell from the balcony. Joran is crying out loud.

Joran walks away crying from Jaap. Jaap gives Joran a cigarette and he sits back down again.

Jorans voice sounds like he is crying. But I dont see tears.

Balcony was on the second floor. She was 100% dead after she fell down.

[Red]

Pronkjewail Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:19 pm

They are telling Joran the results of the test. Jaap is there too.

Woman explains to Joran there there are measurements on the test and that he deliberatly tried to influence the test. Joran denies this. Joran smirking again. Jaap asks the woman if its possible if its just a coincidence; the woman says that it happened too much to be a coincidence. Woman tells Joran that he should explain this.

Woman tells Joran that the test says he lied. Joran is smiking again. Joran thinks its a shame that this is the result of the test, denies that he is trying to hide something, says that he is not crazy and that he knows he told the truth. Jaap asks Joran what he thinks that the consequences of this result will be. Joran throws his glass and walks out of the room. jaap goes after him. Joran says that people shouldnt listen to him, since he says a lot. After he says this he looks straight into the camera and smirks.

cont`d

After a year, the friendship of Joran and Jaap ends, since Joran has been lying and deceiving.


After a few weeks, Joran calls Jaap again, since he has problems. His girlfriend in Bangkok dumped him, he got kicked out of school, he has big problems with his parents, moneyproblems...

commercial break.

"Woman tells Joran that the test says he lied. Joran is smiking again. Joran thinks its a shame that this is the result of the test, denies that he is trying to hide something,"

Come on, we had already hooked Joran up to the above Monkey Truth meter and all knew he was lying. The difference was we didn't pay him money.

[Anna]

Part 3

The interview:
The interview was on August 4, 2008 in Dusseldorf, Germany.
 
Jaap ask how are you feeling? He answered already is a few years depressed.
 
He did leave Natalee on the beach. They did walk to the Holiday in to her hotel.
While they did leave the beach then they saw A friend. And he did leave the disco that time. (Maybe Guido Wever)?
And they did going to their house. And he told Natalee and that A friend just cocaine. And Natalee did fall from the balcony. And he told she was death for 100%.
After all he really did crying.

[klaasend]

Red, is that you working on your computer again?   

[carpe noctem]

Pronkjewail Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:44 pm       

They went down to look at her. She was dead for sure. They put her in the car. Joran says that the friend was a very good friend since he never talked about this.

The friend was dealing. Joran was about to go to the US. They thought it was better to get rid of the body.

Joran got Natalee under her arms, the friend got her feet. They didnt put her in a sheet or anything. They were afraid they have done something that would make them go to jail. They put the body in the backseat. there was blood on the backseat.

Joran doesnt know if the friend still has the car.

They put the body in the bubalypont-swamp. They got her out of the car. joran took her feet this time. He says the water started immediatly at the point where they were. They tried to get her in as far as possible.

He says something about the shoes I think, but I couldnt hear since I was coughing. 

Joran knows exactly where he left the body. Joran says he could point it down on a map. Joran draws the exact location on a paper.

Joran says that Deepak and Satish know nothing about this.



Pronkjewail Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:45 pm       

Joran is crying, but I still dont see tears or red eyes (and I have a new big tv!  )

[Anna]

I don't think that Joran has actual friends in the normal sense of the word as people he cares about and that care about him.  Being a sociopath, Joran just uses people when he needs to do so.

[texasmom]

Pronkjewail Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:19 pm

They are telling Joran the results of the test. Jaap is there too.

Woman explains to Joran there there are measurements on the test and that he deliberatly tried to influence the test. Joran denies this. Joran smirking again. Jaap asks the woman if its possible if its just a coincidence; the woman says that it happened too much to be a coincidence. Woman tells Joran that he should explain this.

Woman tells Joran that the test says he lied. Joran is smirking again. Joran thinks its a shame that this is the result of the test, denies that he is trying to hide something, says that he is not crazy and that he knows he told the truth. Jaap asks Joran what he thinks that the consequences of this result will be. Joran throws his glass and walks out of the room. jaap goes after him. Joran says that people shouldnt listen to him, since he says a lot. After he says this he looks straight into the camera and smirks.

cont`d

After a year, the friendship of Joran and Jaap ends, since Joran has been lying and deceiving.


After a few weeks, Joran calls Jaap again, since he has problems. His girlfriend in Bangkok dumped him, he got kicked out of school, he has big problems with his parents, moneyproblems...

commercial break.

[Anna]

Part 4

After she was death. Joran told she has to go away here. Its your father house and A friend has much drugs in the house and told way with her before the police will find anything.
 
They did got her in the passenger seat and did drove to Bubali marsh. He walked in the marsh and dump the body there.
He did paint the place where she is probably.
 
Friend A. seems to got a scholarship because he is a good tennisplayer.

[Rob]

Isn't there a Peeps from the racejunkies forum?

[EURobert]

(It's very difficult to connect to SM; could be that everybody in the NL's is on the internet now?!?)

Because he had a lot of coke in his room they had to get Natalee's body out of the house. THey put it on the back seat of the car; blood on the seats. We threw her in the pond. They say to each other that they would bring her as far as posible in the pond. So they did. Put her on the deepest spot. From that point on there were only lies.
DO YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHERE YOU PUT HER IN THE POND. YES OFF COURSE. He draws a map. Deepak and Satish don't know what happened.

[Anna]

I asked if it appeared Joran was REALLY crying and this is the response:

Yes. He is getting angry. And it seems to be really. Or he really is doing anything a fake.


So evidently Joran did muster up a few tears.  Likely for himself, but tears nonetheless.

[carpe noctem]

Pronkjewail Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:49 pm       

Joran is appologizing to everyone to people for lying. The friend had his tennis, Joran was about to go to the US, so they didnt think about what they did.

Policepeople give their opinion about the interview...

nr 1..there is finally emotion in his voice,

nr 2 (dompig) looks like it could fit in with the rest of the pieces of the puzzles

nr 1. says the crying looking genuine. but says that he knows that Joran is a good liar.

nr3 it fits with the timeline

Dompig...one day Joran will tell the truth. This could be it. There is enough reason to investigate this further.

commercial break

[klaasend]

Isn't there a Peeps from the racejunkies forum?

Yes

[EURobert]

(It's very difficult to connect to SM; could be that everybody in the NL's is on the internet now?!?)

Because he had a lot of coke in his room they had to get Natalee's body out of the house. THey put it on the back seat of the car; blood on the seats. We threw her in the pond. They say to each other that they would bring her as far as posible in the pond. So they did. Put her on the deepest spot. From that point on there were only lies.
DO YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHERE YOU PUT HER IN THE POND. YES OFF COURSE. He draws a map. Deepak and Satish don't know what happened.

I'm recording the whole show so I can make a better summary later.