Natalee Case Discussion #830 2/25/10 - 3/13/10

[carpe noctem]

[Tamikosmom]

STEPH WATTS – TIM MILLER

TOPIC - THE TRAP

February 14, 2010

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/02/15/watts-up-with-this


February 28, 2010

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/03/01/watts-up-with-this

[klaasend]

Nope Andre won't be very happy: 

http://www.boletinextra.com/index.php/component/content/article/31-local/475-esaki-te-amigo-di-joran-cu-a-yude-hiba-natalee-bubali-plas




Esaki te amigo di Joran cu a yude hiba Natalee Bubali plas
Monday, 01 March 2010 01:38

Di acuerdo cu e transmicion di e canal RTL 5 di e programa unda Joran a haci un confesion, e persona ariba e fot aki ta e amigo complice di Joran. Segun Joran cu na caminda pa Holiday Inn Hotel, el'a topa e amigo aki y nan a bay su cas. Su cas ta situa otro banda di hotel Marriott. Den 5 minuut ya bo ta na e cas. E amigo tabatin droga den su cas y e amigo y Natalee a droga. Ta for di e balcon di su cas Natalee a cay. Den un pickup Americano color berde nan a transporta Natalee pa Bubali Plas. Mientrastanto e amigo no ta bibando mas na e cas aki na Palm Beach, pero awor ta biba un pareha Hulandes. Segun expertonan Hulandes, e declaracion di Joran e biaha aki ta uno hopi mas serca di berdad. Pa loke ta trata e Lie detercor test, Joran NO a pase! A keda constata cu ela maniobra pa manipula e machine, pero no obstante e midimento a sali den su contra: E sa, e tabata tey ora cu Natalee Holloway a muri! Pa waak e videonan, click "read more"

[carpe noctem]

Eddie Munster                                                      Aruba Monster



The one on the right rapes and murders people!

[klaasend]

http://www.boletinextra.com/index.php/component/content/article/31-local/478-ministerio-publico-ta-comenta-ariba-declaracion-di-joran


Ministerio Publico ta comenta ariba declaracion di Joran
Monday, 01 March 2010 12:03
Written by News Updater

Waarheidsgehalte verklaring Joran al in september 2009 uitgebreid door OM Aruba onderzocht
De nieuwste verklaring lijkt qua tijdlijn te kloppen, maar deze wordt niet ondersteund door de resultaten van het onderzoek

Op zondag 28 februari 2010 heeft RTL 5 op de Nederlandse TV een interview uitgezonden, dat Jaap Amesz in het voorjaar van 2009 heeft gevoerd met Joran van der Sloot. De DVD met het gehele interview is reeds op 31 augustus 2009 door RTL aan het Openbaar Ministerie van Aruba aangeboden in het belang van de waarheidsvinding en om grondig onderzoek te doen naar deze nieuwste verklaring van Joran van der Sloot.

Om de geloofwaardigheid van de verklaring van Joran van der Sloot te onderzoeken heeft de Procureur-Generaal van Aruba direct na ontvangst van de DVD een team geformeerd, bestaande uit het Openbaar Ministerie en het Korps Politie Aruba, aangevuld met een aantal Nederlandse deskundigen, waaronder forensisch deskundigen van het NFI.

De verklaring van Joran van der Sloot is door dit onderzoeksteam onder leiding van het Openbaar Ministerie Aruba uitgebreid onderzocht en gebleken is, dat, ondanks dat de verklaring qua tijdlijn zou kunnen kloppen, deze op een aantal essentiële onderdelen onjuist bleek te zijn.

Hetgeen door Joran van der Sloot wordt verklaard over het eerste contact, de val van het balkon, het rijden met een auto naar het moeras en het vervolgens terugrijden naar huis zou kunnen passen in de reeds bekende onderzoeksgegevens qua tijdlijn.

Echter blijkt de verklaring van Joran van der Sloot op een aantal essentiele onderdelen onjuist. Onderzoek is gedaan naar de locaties, voorwerpen, getuigen et cetera genoemd in het interview; verder is door het onderzoeksteam een gedragsdeskundige ingeschakeld.

De conclusie op basis van het onderzoek was dan ook, dat de afgelegde verklaring van Joran van der Sloot voorshands niet geloofwaardig moet worden geacht.

Wat ontbreekt in de verklaring van Joran van der Sloot is onder meer een exacte aanduiding van de locatie, waar het stoffelijk overschot door hem zou zijn achtergelaten. Joran van der Sloot biedt in zijn verklaring bij Jaap Amesz aan om die locatie op Aruba te komen aanwijzen. Ondanks meerdere verzoeken van het Openbaar Ministerie Aruba heeft Joran van der Sloot dat steeds geweigerd. Het aanwijzen van de exacte plaats is noodzakelijk voor verder onderzoek: het betreffende moeras beslaat 685.000 m2, waarvan 210.000 m2 water. Vanwege het klimaat op Aruba en de moerasomgeving zullen na een tijdsverloop van ruim vier jaar slechts minuscule sporen resteren. Naar deze minuscule sporen kan slechts een gericht onderzoek kans van slagen hebben en daarvoor is de medewerking van Joran van der Sloot vereist. Gelet op de stand van zaken in de onderzaak ontbreekt het het Openbaar Ministerie Aruba thans echter aan de mogelijkheid van het inzetten van dwangmiddelen tegen Joran van der Sloot.

Alleen een vrijwillige medewerking van Joran van der Sloot zou de zo gewenste duidelijkheid in dit onderzoek kunnen brengen.


Dutch to English translationShow romanization

come across ministerio publico is comenta upstairs DECLARACION joran or monday, 01 march 2010 12:03 written by news 0 comments updater print truth statement joran already extended through September 2009 at the latest statement seems examined Aruba terms till timeline correct, but it is not supported by the results of the investigation on Sunday 28 Feburary 2010, the Dutch TV RTL 5 in a broadcast interview, that Amesz gash in the spring of 2009 had with Joran van der Sloot. the DVD with the entire interview is already on 31 August 2009 by the Public Ministry to rtl Aruba offered in the interest of truth to that provided till thorough investigation into these latest statement of Joran van der Sloot. the credibility of the declaration of Joran van der Sloot till investigations the Attorney General of Aruba directly at receiving a DVD of the team formed, consisting of the prosecution provided that the Aruba Police Corps, supplemented by a number of Dutch experts, including forensic experts from the NFI. the declaration of Joran van der Sloot by this research team led by the prosecution Aruba extensively studied provided that proved that despite the explanation in terms of timeline would be true, that on some essential elements are found incorrect till. Joran van der Sloot by what is stated on the first contact, the fall from the balcony, driving a car into the swamp that provided then drive back home could fit in terms of the known research timeline. However, the statement shows Joran van der Sloot in a number of essential elements wrong. Research is done to the sites, objects, witnesses et cetera mentioned in the interview, further investigation by a team of behavioral enabled. conclusion on the basis of the investigation wax therefore, that the statement of Joran van der Sloot on hands should not be considered credible. what is missing in the declaration of Joran van der Sloot is a more precise indication of the location where the body he would be left behind. Joran van der Sloot in his statement to offer to slash Amesz at that location on Aruba appoint till come. despite several requests from the prosecution Aruba Joran van der Sloot denied that ever. identifying the exact location is needed for further research: on the swamp covers 685,000 m2, of which 210,000 m2 water. because the climate on Aruba provided that the marsh area will at an interval of more than four years only minuscule traces remain. to detect these tiny, only a study can be successful provided that this is the involvement of Joran van der Sloot required. given the state of the subject matter lacks the prosecution Aruba but now the possibility of the use of force against Joran van der Sloot. only a voluntary collaboration of Joran van der Sloot, the much desired clarity in this study can bring.

[Buckeye]

Not sure how current this is, but the article talks about commitment in the Netherlands:

The most important elements of the new law, called “Special Admissions to Psychiatric Hospitals,” can be summarized as follows. As illness in itself cannot justify coercion, a condition is made that there is a danger present to others, the self, or public order. This puts safeguarding society at the center of concern. Psychiatry is assigned a place adjacent to the social institution of justice, as an instrument of social control, and for the purpose of enforcing social order. This was also the case in the previous law, but an important difference is that involuntary commitment on grounds of the person’s best interests is no longer possible. The only exception to this, is that danger to oneself is included. What is meant is suicide, auto-mutilation, self-starvation, and such. These types of dangers could also be deemed best interests. That is not unimportant, as the majority of involuntary commitments are effectuated on grounds of danger to self. (See Chapter VII, 3.2.2).

http://www.janpols.net/Epilogue/9.html



He is a threat to public order.  I say forget the volunteer part.  Lock him up until he is "well".

[Rob]

[Tamikosmom]

So anyone else think that Joran is throwing Andre under the bus   

I think Buckeye may be on to something.

Janet

++++++

I wonder how "A" feels about Joran's latest confession?

Maybe Andre also has gambling debts since he and his father shared that special time. Maybe he agreed to Joran mentioning his name for a cut of the money.

BINGO!!

Buckeye

Considering Joran does not implicate Andre in any wrongdoing other than assisting in a disposal of a body and ... Joran only implicates himself in the disposal of a body ...  I would not be surprised if this latest "confession" is all a setup.  If Natalee Holloways remains are located in that swamp ... I contend they were planted in an attempt to distance Paulus and ... an attempt to distance the Kalpoes ... the Kalpoes who could reveal all in regards to the events encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005 as well as ALL those who participated.

Above all the latest "confession" could be an attempt to bring the Natalee Holloway case to a conclusion.

The latest version of events does not make sense.  Why would Joran van der Sloot sit in jail for three months rather than declaring this version of events.  Why was 911 not called immediately following the fall from the balcony.  After all it was an accident.  Why the five year cover up?

Janet

[carpe noctem]

Not sure how current this is, but the article talks about commitment in the Netherlands:

The most important elements of the new law, called “Special Admissions to Psychiatric Hospitals,” can be summarized as follows. As illness in itself cannot justify coercion, a condition is made that there is a danger present to others, the self, or public order. This puts safeguarding society at the center of concern. Psychiatry is assigned a place adjacent to the social institution of justice, as an instrument of social control, and for the purpose of enforcing social order. This was also the case in the previous law, but an important difference is that involuntary commitment on grounds of the person’s best interests is no longer possible. The only exception to this, is that danger to oneself is included. What is meant is suicide, auto-mutilation, self-starvation, and such. These types of dangers could also be deemed best interests. That is not unimportant, as the majority of involuntary commitments are effectuated on grounds of danger to self. (See Chapter VII, 3.2.2).

http://www.janpols.net/Epilogue/9.html



He is a threat to public order.  I say forget the volunteer part.  Lock him up until he is "well".

I love your positive thinking, Buckeye.

I don't think he will ever be well.

A hemorrhoid the size of Joran needs surgical attention.

[Rob]

Not sure how current this is, but the article talks about commitment in the Netherlands:

The most important elements of the new law, called “Special Admissions to Psychiatric Hospitals,” can be summarized as follows. As illness in itself cannot justify coercion, a condition is made that there is a danger present to others, the self, or public order. This puts safeguarding society at the center of concern. Psychiatry is assigned a place adjacent to the social institution of justice, as an instrument of social control, and for the purpose of enforcing social order. This was also the case in the previous law, but an important difference is that involuntary commitment on grounds of the person’s best interests is no longer possible. The only exception to this, is that danger to oneself is included. What is meant is suicide, auto-mutilation, self-starvation, and such. These types of dangers could also be deemed best interests. That is not unimportant, as the majority of involuntary commitments are effectuated on grounds of danger to self. (See Chapter VII, 3.2.2).

http://www.janpols.net/Epilogue/9.html



He is a threat to public order.  I say forget the volunteer part.  Lock him up until he is "well".

I love your positive thinking, Buckeye.

I don't think he will ever be well.

A hemorrhoid the size of Joran needs surgical attention.

the best thing that can happen - he just disappears.

no one looks

no words are typed

no tears are shed

no cries of favoritism

no hearts bleed

no money is spent

and everyone turns their back

[carpe noctem]

Sometimes when you do a game of tennis... Bad things happen, Sporter!!!!!

[Blonde]

AMSTERDAM – The OM in Aruba is convinced that after two confessions Joran is to blame for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. But a solution is further away than ever.

The Chief Prosecutor, Mr. Peter Blanken, says: “He knows where Natalee is, that’s an established fact for me. And that he was the last one to see her alive, there’s no doubt whatsoever about that as far as I’m concerned. The smallest piece of supportive evidence would be enough.” Blanken agrees that the new confession of Van der Sloot is a fit in the puzzle piece concerning the timeline of the disappearance, as former Police Chief Gerald Dompig week claimed this week. This is the “missing hour”.

“His description of the events covers the period between the time the cameras signal Natalee for the last time until Joran is active on the internet at 3 in the night exactly.”

According to him that’s the reason why these last few months everything has been done to check the details. “And then it does turn out he’s still witholding things or twists things. It is possible that Natalee fell off the balcony, but then it wouldn’t be at that address. We’ve thoroughly checked that house. The railing is so narrow that, if she would have danced, she should have been a rope walker. The railing is too high as well, with little space to the roof. So it wasn’t this balcony. You’re left with nothing concerning this point.” He also claims that the car of the family of the alleged accomplice A. has recently been thoroughly investigated.

“The car story can be true, but then it wasn’t this car. We didn’t find any blood. Even a tiny trace of Natalees’ DNA would be enough to bring him to justice. So we need Joran himself to supply us with such a lead, en he refuses to do so. I hope he’ll ever find the courage.” Even a full confession to the police isn’t enough, because without supporting evidence there is no case.” Blanken says that there is a lot of miscomprehension concerning the European legal system in the US especially. “With an American jury two confessions are enough for a conviction.”

http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:ocEmnhFl0y0J:www.blogsfornatalee.com/+The+Chief+Prosecutor,+Mr.+Peter+Blanken,+says:+%E2%80%9CHe+knows+where+Natalee+is&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=opera

[Kermit]

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Thank you Blonde - this might be a match

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[natalfan]

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6167920/_Psycholoog_Joran_liegt_weer_.html?p=9,1

[Blonde]

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Thank you Blonde - this might be a match

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[blah]

He did get one thing right, though.

Blunt force trauma to the head.


Whenever Joran dances remotely close to truth, I guess that should be considered an EVENT
worthy of global wide media attention!

Agreed Carpe.  A head wound would explain the amount of blood the FBI told Beth was in the K's car.  Even the headmaster (teacher?) stated early on Joran had told him a story containing a head wound.  That has been a constant possibility throughout.

As for the rest of it - including falling off a balcony, I'm calling BS.

Blunt force trauma to the head is from the missing shoe when the POS was kicking her head in 

[Keepthefaith]

TEAMWORK AT IT'S BEST....

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[blah]

When you consider the May 31, 2005 witness statements regarding the fabrication of the Holiday Inn drop off  ... all three suspects implied that Natalee sustained a head injury when she fell getting out of Deepak's vehicle.  Why? 

Janet

++++++++

THE WITNESS STATEMENTS

Deepak Kalpoe – Witness Statement – May 31, 2005

I asked Joran if the girl said the Holiday Inn and Joran said yes.  I drove hereafter in the direction of the Holiday Inn and parked my car at the second column at the hotel. (?)  I heard  the car door open and turned around to see who got out.  I saw the girl got out and fell on the ground. Joran also got out of the car and tried to help the girl stand up I saw that Joran held the girl at her shoulders and started to walk in the direction of the lobby. I saw that the girl turned to Joran and pushed him away.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=328.0


Satish Kalpoe – Witness Statement – May 31, 2005

Around 01.45, we arrived at the Holiday Inn hotel. My brother parked his car at north of the two entryways which are parallel to the lobby of the hotel. The girl stepped out of the car and she fell on the ground because she was very drunk.  I saw that Joran got out of the car to help the girl. I saw that he held her under her armpits so that she could stand. After the girl was standing, she pushed Joran.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=330.0


Joran van der Sloot – Witness Statement – May 31, 2005

Around 02:00 am we had arrived at the hotel.  At the entrance of the hotel the girl opened the backdoor of the car and fell on the ground. I then went out by the same door and helped her getting up. The girl had told me not to touch her and pushed my hands away.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2876.0


GET YOUR STORIES STRAIGHT

'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' - January 12, 2006

JOHN Q. KELLY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Paul Van Der Sloot is obviously a shameless individual. When Deepak Kalpoe gave one of his first statements to police, what he said was, “Paul Van Der Sloot advised us to get our stories straight, to not communicate by e-mail, not to use our cell phones, and to get lawyers.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10836208/


Nancy Grace - October 4, 2005

NANCY GRACE, HOST: ... while you were out combing the island, they called a meeting, a meeting at the pool behind the judge`s house of lawyers, the Kalpoe family, Joran Van Der Sloot, his father, for what?

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER: What he was doing was helping the boys get their stories straight, Nancy. He was instructing the boys how to get your story straight. If all stories match, in 10 days you will be free.

GRACE: And what about the hard drive?

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: Well he also told the guys once they got their stories straight to begin e-mailing this and then use your hard drive to nail an alibi.

GRACE: And not to use your cell phone.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0510/04/ng.01.html

The interesting part about this story is that she fell AFTER getting out of the Kalpoes car.  Therefore, they were already confident that they had the blood cleaned up in their car, or there never was a bloody Natalee in their car.  We know they were cleaning the car that night.

[Rob]

AMSTERDAM – The OM in Aruba is convinced that after two confessions Joran is to blame for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. But a solution is further away than ever.

The Chief Prosecutor, Mr. Peter Blanken, says: “He knows where Natalee is, that’s an established fact for me. And that he was the last one to see her alive, there’s no doubt whatsoever about that as far as I’m concerned. The smallest piece of supportive evidence would be enough.” Blanken agrees that the new confession of Van der Sloot is a fit in the puzzle piece concerning the timeline of the disappearance, as former Police Chief Gerald Dompig week claimed this week. This is the “missing hour”.

“His description of the events covers the period between the time the cameras signal Natalee for the last time until Joran is active on the internet at 3 in the night exactly.”

According to him that’s the reason why these last few months everything has been done to check the details. “And then it does turn out he’s still witholding things or twists things. It is possible that Natalee fell off the balcony, but then it wouldn’t be at that address. We’ve thoroughly checked that house. The railing is so narrow that, if she would have danced, she should have been a rope walker. The railing is too high as well, with little space to the roof. So it wasn’t this balcony. You’re left with nothing concerning this point.” He also claims that the car of the family of the alleged accomplice A. has recently been thoroughly investigated.

“The car story can be true, but then it wasn’t this car. We didn’t find any blood. Even a tiny trace of Natalees’ DNA would be enough to bring him to justice. So we need Joran himself to supply us with such a lead, en he refuses to do so. I hope he’ll ever find the courage.” Even a full confession to the police isn’t enough, because without supporting evidence there is no case.” Blanken says that there is a lot of miscomprehension concerning the European legal system in the US especially. “With an American jury two confessions are enough for a conviction.”

http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:ocEmnhFl0y0J:www.blogsfornatalee.com/+The+Chief+Prosecutor,+Mr.+Peter+Blanken,+says:+%E2%80%9CHe+knows+where+Natalee+is&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=opera

Thanks Blonde...

If this article doesn't illustrate the utter contempt I have for these people - nothing ever will.

What a contradiction this whole thing is.

I urge everyone to read this twice.

Natalee is dead. Said in gentle terms. Joran can not be prosecuted because we just don't want to do it. Nor do we have the balls to look for evidence. It's possible the car story is true - well, try looking at the Kalpoe deadmobile. Or publish all the forensic findings to satisfy those of us that have heard and read so much about it. Spatter on the headliner. Part cut from the seats. And what about that pesky FBI statement - The FBI was sure Natalee was dead based on the AMOUNT of blood found in the KALPOE HONDA.

One thing has been cleared up - there is no dancing in South America, no ran away with a Dutch Marine, no insurance scam, no pregnant with Jug's baby, Beth is not hiding Natalee, and it's clear as a bell - JORAN KILLED NATALEE.

However, as clear as that has always been - continuing to make a mockery of words and never following them with actions is infuriating.

Try him, convict him, and lock him up - should Natalee's body reappear at a later date, and the remains do not provide for homicide - release him and allow him compensation. I don't believe her remains will ever reveal anything other than a clear cut murder.

[SunnyinTX]

And yet again, when Tacopina lies, he starts talking faster and louder. He has done this since day one. He knows Joran is involved. He makes me sick.
 

I find it interesting that he found it necessary to go to such lengths to defend Paulus, now that he's dead.  I mean that guy just sat there and lied through his teeth saying the bottom of the pool was dug up???  The house was ransacked by police???

I admire Paul Reynold's restraint this morning.

Paul Reynol

I was hoping Paul would turned around, double up his fist and slam him right in his lying mouth on national TV.!!