Lively Case Discussion #493 7/13 - 7/14/2006

[sb]

The "rape" category on those sites is probably very lengthy indeed.

I just don't think that there is a "Rape Resulting In Death" category that they casually put online that could be accessed by an outsider.  If that is what happened here, I think it is VERY likely that Joran never uploads the thing. OR that the death occurred AFTER the upload.

If Natalee dies by Joran's hand, and he records it, I think there is an extreme likelihood that he keeps that thing just to himself. He's sick, but not stupid.

[klaasend]

Anyone who would film it would also be a person who would be eager to get home and look at it.

HMO.  No that's insurance.  Meant JMO.  

I agree, Anna... I think he couldn't wait to view his handiwork!

Klaasend, did you say earlier that this was a site that would pay for amateur videos?

Yes, at the backseatbangers site you can choose amateur videos but you have to pay for it.  I was saying that the original bangbus site was a free amateur.  It evolved into a pay site but the original site is still free.

Note:  At just about all the porn sites I've seen, you can choose Amateur, Rape, etc. etc etc

Gotcha... I was thinking the site paid you for what you uploaded... having a dyslexic moment...

They may very well pay certain people but I didn't "dig" that deep into the site.  

[SunFreak2]

Isn't that where the spa place is that that Michael van den Berg owns?  Is he related to the old creepy guy Martin?  Didn't one of Natalee's roommates get a call about a free spa day.  Maybe they really were trying to target a different girl.

I don't see that name anywhere in the chambers records:

From March 1999

Official opening of The Spa at the Mill
The official opening of the already very successful 'The Spa at The Mill' spa and beauty salon was very special: a beautifully body-painted waif wafted through the throng of well-wishers: she was painted in the color blue, signifying the importance of water. That's the image, which the word spa evokes, of course.
The massage rooms of 'The Spa at The Mill' are lovely, with nice decorative touches, the Jacuzzi in the tropical garden is romantic and Marcella and Viviana, the sisters who make it all happen, are lovely and sweet.
'The Spa at The Mill' offers scrubs, wraps, aroma therapy, reflexology, Shiatsu, professional make-up and waxing as well as facials and massages. Its specialty is the use of aloe, which is freshly cut. Aloe is the miracle plant, which grows profusely on the island. It is used to heal bums, prevent scarring, after sunburn and as an anti-inflammatory. A fresh aloe wrap is nothing to be sneezed at, as it leaves your skin as soft as a baby's. The Spa at The Mill's logo is a flowering aloe plant. In the short months that The Spa at The Mill is open, sisters Marcella and Viviana and Martijn Middeldorp have made many converts. One only has to go once to the pretty, intimate beauty salon to be convinced that this is the place to go to. They offer special honeymoon packages, three-hour cellulite treatments and much, much more.
For the official opening, a host of friends and well-wishers came to congratulate Marcella and Michael van den Berg, Viviana Ramirez, Martijn Middeldorp and Frits Israel with their spa and to toast their continued success. Many glasses were raised.

http://www.visitaruba.com/facts/newsdesk/backissues/newsletter22.html

[Red]

It would appear that the book post from the Front page was a success ...

I think we may have to make that a weekly feature and add a chapter each time.

Yes Red that was really good. Did you read the post I made a few pages back? I will repeat it here. It is a post from Rob on blogs for Natalee. This is not the complete post. So I provided the link.

cut ...

Yup ... I saw it.

I think both Beth and Dave know exactly how we feel and the effort that we put in to try and help ... if nothing more at time than just support. Which when times get them down means a lot to them. That to me is all that is important.

We do the best we can and let others make up their own minds. You can't please everybody, but we can say we do most.

They know the support they get from SM and all the Monkeys both in the forums and on the FP. Many times its an unspoken thank you and at other times its verbalized. However, they know they don't have to say a word .. thats not why we do it.

Its the nicest thing in the world to get a thank you or a compliment from Beth because there is so much that goes on behind the scenes that it is tiring. However, as I say to Beth ... you don't have to say anything because it is our privilege to try and help in any way we can.

Help is just that ... help in any manor and that does not mean creating more issues for a family that has gone through enough. That goes for Beth, Dave and every other family we will try and help.

Tom & I never got in this for the fame as no one ever knew what this would become. We posted a single story and from what I read what was going on having much experience with Aruba I knew what was about to happen. No one knew back then the explosion and fascination that would become the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

You have to remember last year at this time SM was getting 1.4 million unique hits last July. Tom & I like to joke as obviously 13 months later nothing could maintain that velocity ... we borrow the line ... its not that our audience is waning ... its just getting more select ,,,  

If anyone can tell me what movie that line is from you are good.

We have never wavered from our families support and have worked through thick & thin which is what creates trust and credibility with not just the family, but the MSM who contacts us and you, the readers.

We were in this from day one and remain to the end despite of what others have attempted to do to stop us. Frankly some of the foolishness that people have tried to do is just that.

Its never been about Tom & I, its always been about the story. We joke around and many times we make our point through sarcasm.

So as long as Beth & Dave know what we are all about, thats good enough for us ... frankly it should be good enough for all of us.

Sorry for the dissertation ... Get on a roll and cant stop typing.

[SunFreak2]

Oy vey regarding Rob. I guess I'm going through a disenchanted state of mind. If he gives Scared Monkeys so much credit, what happened to his own credibility? Not that I am an oracle or anything like that, but I hated his teasing posts on the secret info he had. I never trusted him. Just my humble opinion. He wanted it all and I hated that he dissed Hotshot for her own investigation. I WISH he could have made a difference.

Hi Mama Louise!!  Good to see you.  How are you this evening?  

[lexie]

The other interesting thing I found about what was said was that he got a virus from the porn site.... and he didn't realize it???

IF such a site was being monitored or investigated by LE, FBI, Interpol, etc., would they ever consider imbedding a virus to track anyone who uploads to these sites?  We heard over and over about the circumstances involved in this disappearance, and involvement early on of DEA and FBI.  We also heard that Joran was on some kind of watch list.  Could it be that there was an investigation of some sort and Joran's acitivities WERE monitored online that night?  Just a thought.

[klaasend]

Isn't that where the spa place is that that Michael van den Berg owns?  Is he related to the old creepy guy Martin?  Didn't one of Natalee's roommates get a call about a free spa day.  Maybe they really were trying to target a different girl.

I don't see that name anywhere in the chambers records:

From March 1999

Official opening of The Spa at the Mill
The official opening of the already very successful 'The Spa at The Mill' spa and beauty salon was very special: a beautifully body-painted waif wafted through the throng of well-wishers: she was painted in the color blue, signifying the importance of water. That's the image, which the word spa evokes, of course.
The massage rooms of 'The Spa at The Mill' are lovely, with nice decorative touches, the Jacuzzi in the tropical garden is romantic and Marcella and Viviana, the sisters who make it all happen, are lovely and sweet.
'The Spa at The Mill' offers scrubs, wraps, aroma therapy, reflexology, Shiatsu, professional make-up and waxing as well as facials and massages. Its specialty is the use of aloe, which is freshly cut. Aloe is the miracle plant, which grows profusely on the island. It is used to heal bums, prevent scarring, after sunburn and as an anti-inflammatory. A fresh aloe wrap is nothing to be sneezed at, as it leaves your skin as soft as a baby's. The Spa at The Mill's logo is a flowering aloe plant. In the short months that The Spa at The Mill is open, sisters Marcella and Viviana and Martijn Middeldorp have made many converts. One only has to go once to the pretty, intimate beauty salon to be convinced that this is the place to go to. They offer special honeymoon packages, three-hour cellulite treatments and much, much more.
For the official opening, a host of friends and well-wishers came to congratulate Marcella and Michael van den Berg, Viviana Ramirez, Martijn Middeldorp and Frits Israel with their spa and to toast their continued success. Many glasses were raised.

http://www.visitaruba.com/facts/newsdesk/backissues/newsletter22.html

Thanks Sunfreak, the registry didn't have a name.  Now, let me see if I can find a photo of Michael Van Den Berg.

[sb]

Red, the ones who are here now are the ones who care enough to persevere. It takes time and effort to follow all this. We're hanging in despite all that has been thrown up against us.

I see that 60-day mark approaching and am thinking... maybe...maybe... all this the last few weeks is the calm before Hurricane Kelly strikes.

[sb]

Red, the ones who are here now are the ones who care enough to persevere. It takes time and effort to follow all this. We're hanging in despite all that has been thrown up against us.

I see that 60-day mark approaching and am thinking... maybe...maybe... all this the last few weeks is the calm before Hurricane Kelly strikes.

[mrs. red]

The other interesting thing I found about what was said was that he got a virus from the porn site.... and he didn't realize it???

IF such a site was being monitored or investigated by LE, FBI, Interpol, etc., would they ever consider imbedding a virus to track anyone who uploads to these sites?  We heard over and over about the circumstances involved in this disappearance, and involvement early on of DEA and FBI.  We also heard that Joran was on some kind of watch list.  Could it be that there was an investigation of some sort and Joran's acitivities WERE monitored online that night?  Just a thought.

Could be ...

[Tylergal]

The other interesting thing I found about what was said was that he got a virus from the porn site.... and he didn't realize it???

IF such a site was being monitored or investigated by LE, FBI, Interpol, etc., would they ever consider imbedding a virus to track anyone who uploads to these sites?  We heard over and over about the circumstances involved in this disappearance, and involvement early on of DEA and FBI.  We also heard that Joran was on some kind of watch list.  Could it be that there was an investigation of some sort and Joran's acitivities WERE monitored online that night?  Just a thought.

Good thoughts, Lexie.

Anna, you are on a roll tonight.  DH told me to tell you he has been peeking in and wanted to give you a big thumbs-up.

[klaasend]

Appearing in the Trade Register of the Chamber of Commerce and Industry in ARUBA since 8 OCTOBER 1998 under serial number 23832.0 is the company with the tradename:
 
SPA MANAGEMENT & HOLDING N.V.
 
Business address    J.E. IRAUSQUIN BLVD. 330, NOORD
Legal form    LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY
Name of the company    SPA MANAGEMENT & HOLDING N.V.
Statutory seat    ARUBA
Date of incorporation    7 OCTOBER 1998
Last amendment in the articles    5 JUNE 2001
     
Authorized capital    ARUBAN FLORINS 50,000.00
Issued capital    ARUBAN FLORINS 10,000.00
Paid up capital    ARUBAN FLORINS 10,000.00
Fiscal year    01 JANUARY thru 31 DECEMBER
 
DIRECTORS - AUTHORIZED PERSONS AND CORPORATE BODIES - SUPERVISORY BOARD:
VAN DEN BERG, MICHAEL WILLIBRORD;
Residing in    SEROE JANCHI 52-A, NOORD, ARUBA
Born in    THE NETHERLANDS, HAARLEM on 11 JUNE 1966
Nationality    DUTCH
Position    MANAGING DIRECTOR
Effective    7 AUGUST 1998
Authority    RESTRICTED
 
ISRAEL, FREDERIK MAX;
Residing in    MALMOKWEG 22-D, NOORD, ARUBA
Born in    ARUBA on 16 JUNE 1965
Nationality    DUTCH
Position    MANAGING DIRECTOR
Effective    7 OCTOBER 1998
Authority    RESTRICTED
 
VAN DEN BERG, MICHAEL WILLIBRORD;
Residing in    SEROE JANCHI 52-A, NOORD, ARUBA
Born in    THE NETHERLANDS, HAARLEM on 11 JUNE 1966
Nationality    DUTCH
Position    MANAGING DIRECTOR
Effective    7 AUGUST 1998
Authority    RESTRICTED
 
OBJECTIVE(S) OF THE COMPANY
TO OPERATE A HOLDING COMPANY.
 
Only valid if accordingly signed by the Chamber.

[Anna]

I think that old Maarten van der Berg is sort of like that guy Tom on MySpace.com who signs on as literally everybody's friend that he can.  I don't think he really knows those young people at all.

 

[klaasend]

The Aruba Bucuti Beach Resort
(www.bucuti.com) may not offer
room service, butlers or a classic fine
dining restaurant, but celebrities
savor the owner-managed resort
(three miles from downtown
Oranjestad) for its four Penthouses,
complete with four-poster beds, clawfoot
tubs, plasma-screen TVs and
panoramic views of Eagle Beach
from a huge balcony. (Note: Book
now for 2006, they’re sold out
through 2005).
The resort discourages children. The
minimum age in the luxurious oceanfront
Tara Suites building is 18 and
the original Bucuti wing (set to complete
a renovation by December)
allows only one child per room. Very
small, quiet, well-trained pets are
welcome, however.
Owners Ewald and Susan Biemans
enjoy contact from travel agents
(susan@bucuti.com) and are accessible
to clients 24/7 during their stay.
General Manager Deborah Dintelman
(bucutimgr@setarnet.aw) is another
excellent connection.
The three-room Intermezzo Spa has
a Vichy shower, a wet room for body
scrubs and a quiet room. Book the
Bon Bini package (massage and
facial) or an Aloe Wrap through
Spa Director Michael van den Berg
(intermezw@setarnet.aw) and
request Nathalie for a massage.
Reserve an on-the-beach dining
experience in advance, as only three
bookings per night are taken. To dine
outside of the hotel try Le Dome,
just around the corner (www.ledomearuba.
com).

http://www.bucuti.com/_pdfs/about_us_en/Bucuti_LuxuryTravel_Article.pdf

September 2005

[Anna]

.
My signature line might be a tad large.  

Anyway, I am talking about this guy Tom who signs on to everybody's MySpace account as a friend.  He has made his way into the language now even with the expxression being that somebody has more friends than Tom!  So looks as though some have decided to counter with the following.  I have suspected that old geezer Maarten does the same thing.




.

[Ono]

If you think about it, porn seems to be the normal mode of entertainment in that household.......According to that article wherein is described Paulus' gift to Joran for his recreational viewing pleasure while away at school in the Netherlands... Anita's natural sense of propriety and modesty (born to all little girls), has gone absent over the years and she's now hardened, as is demonstrated in her casusal description of what Joran did sexually to Natalee while conversing with Beth and Greta. She also seems oblivious to Beth's concern that Natalee was a virgin and pretended not to know how that would play into the scenario that fateful night  (re: the interview that Kimberly Guilfoyle did) ...I think they take porn quite for granted at the Sloots.

[klaasend]

.
My signature line might be a tad large.  

Anyway, I am talking about this guy Tom who signs on to everybody's MySpace account as a friend.  He has made his way into the language now even with the expxression being that somebody has more friends than Tom!  So looks as though some have decided to counter with the following.  I have suspected that old geezer Maarten does the same thing.




.

Tom is the guy to created Myspace   It's automatic when you create a Myspace account that he is one of your friends.

[2NJSons_Mom]

I think that old Maarten van der Berg is sort of like that guy Tom on MySpace.com who signs on as literally everybody's friend that he can.  I don't think he really knows those young people at all.

 

My younger son had to tell me who 'Tom' was and that he is everyone's first friend when I logged in to vote for a friend's adult kid in a contest.  'Tom' creeped me out, so 'Maarten' would have been over the top...aack....

[Anna]

Sorry for blowing the margins.

Let's see if this works better.

.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Goodnight, all.