Natalee Case Discussion #831 3/13/10 - 4/22/10

[jen3560]

Natalee Holloway »
Aruban police say they will look into skeleton photo
By Erin Stock -- The Birmingham News
March 18, 2010, 2:50PM

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/03/aruban_police_say_they_will_lo.html

In this October 2009 underwater photo provided by John F. Muldowney, is shown a portion of the ocean floor off the coast of Aruba. Muldowney feels the photo, taken by his wife, Patti, while the couple was on vacation in Aruba, may show the remains of Natalee Holloway. (AP Photo/Patti Muldowney)
The Aruban police's lead investigator on the Natalee Holloway case said today he was unaware of a photo taken by an American tourist who believes the image shows what could be the missing teen's body on the ocean floor.
The Birmingham News

Natalee Holloway (Birmingham News file)

Deputy Chief Adolpho Richardson said his team of investigators will look into it, in a telephone interview with The Birmingham News.

"Of course," he said. "We look at everything."

Richardson said authorities are still actively investigating the Mountain Brook girl's disappearance. Holloway vanished in 2005 on a high school graduation trip to the Caribbean island.

"We try to leave no stone unturned, so we will look into it," Richardson said. "Although the chances are very slim that it will lead to any results."

Divers have conducted a thorough search of the waters, Richardson said. But he said if a body was dumped at sea, "it could be even in Panama. You never know."

Richardson also said a recent on-air confession by suspect Joran van der Sloot on Dutch television has produced new leads. He said he remains hopeful that investigators will uncover

what happened to Holloway.what happened to Holloway.

Aw crap!  Why Richardson????????  That's just really, really, really BAD!!

[jen3560]

FWIW, this one looks more like intact remains than the ones in the trap, in my opinion.  There appears to actually be more than fragments.

I hope Beth knows about this. 

Can anyone confirm that she does, Klaas or Kermit?  How about Peter R de Vries?  I wonder what he will have to say about it.  He is someone who could put pressure on ALE.  He could go or send somebody there to camp out to be on hand when the search (yeah, haha!  I'm being optimistic) is conducted.

I sent it to  her and Art Woods

Thank you Blonde.

[jen3560]

Maybe since these "new" photos are hitting the air -- maybe WE should re-release the "cage" photos............................. I think WE have a more intriguing story to share!! 

Did anybody ever send the pics to Jen Hale?  I agree with Wreck.  Send the clips of Tim Miller on Steph Watts' show as well. 

It's high time somebody put a TV news camera on Silvetti and asked him WTH?!  Not to mention somebody needs to pull Tim Trehan's scuba card.   

JMO and only MO

Newp - not only your opinion, mine too. 

[jen3560]

I was wondering when 24ora and awe24 would pick up the story 

I still can't believe that Joran is in Aruba. 

If I remember correctly, he may not want to go back to the Netherlands because they were chasing him down the street, and there is a lot of unrest right now in Bangkok, Thailand.    http://www1.voanews.com/policy/editorials/Protests-In-Thailand-88455632.html  So maybe Aruba is as good a hidey hole as any other place. 

Well that's true but I know there are many Arubans that aren't happy with Joran.  It's a small island and I would feel very uncomfortable if I were him. 

Maybe he enjoys a certain amount of notoriety.     I wonder if it just takes time for the fear  PVDS held over some (basically blackmail)to wear down.   It doesn't appear PVDS was popular.  It seems more he had stuff on people and he used it to his advantage to control the them.  I don't know who's left on the island or even in the Netherlands that want to go to bat for Joran any more.  He's been quite the liability for a long time now and  with no PVDS to run cover, maybe Joran's on borrowed time, but he won't admit it, even to himself.  He is a sociopath, after all.  JMHO

I don't know.  I'd sure like to think of Joran as unwelcome and uncomfortable on his 'home turf', but I'm just not sure that island has changed at all, let alone enough to disown Joran.  If it is still an accepted practice to drug and rape the tourist girls then I don't imagine anyone has much trouble with Joran being back in town.  He's probably drinking and playing poker in the casinos with Sebastian these days.  Wouldn't surprise me at all.   

That is what I've heard.  Not from a reliable source, but it's what's being said anyway.

[jen3560]

Happy Friday Monkeys! 

[Anna]

And another thing.....I don't like people who are not Americans criticizing our FBI.

It is kinda like my brother,  I can Cristie him, but I don't want anybody else saying a word against him.

I have to agree on that after the heck I received for trying to be friendly and posting that RCMP smilie.  I actually found it for Dana, who of course was not in the least offended.  Not so on this thread!

But I sure learned a lesson about trying to be friendly.  And if one agency is above even a smilie, so is our own.

The FBI, of course, can't do anything in Aruba at all and anything taken from Aruban waters is under Aruban control.  That's pretty standard throughout the world.  AFAIK, Aruba is still a sovereign nation.

[Anna]

Geraldo was just on Fox pretending to be some kind of expert as usual.  He said he couldn't believe anything would be left, bones would have turned to powder especially there as those were turbulent waters.

Well, I have read the opposite that deep under water it is perfectly calm, etc.

So who knows.

[klaasend]

Geraldo was just on Fox pretending to be some kind of expert as usual.  He said he couldn't believe anything would be left, bones would have turned to powder especially there as those were turbulent waters.

Well, I have read the opposite that deep under water it is perfectly calm, etc.

So who knows.

How does Geraldo explain the ancient bones they have found in Aruba, the ones 100's of years old from shipwrecks? 

Geraldo is a tool 

[Anna]

Yes, I wish Geraldo had kept his big nose out of it.  I feel they would have talked much longer about it if he hadn't been so quick to dismiss it right out of hand.

It may not be much and it probably isn't Natalee but we can use it for all it's worth to keep her tragedy in the media and the spotlight on Aruba.  Just let them know the world has not forgotten her for one minute and is just waiting and watching for them to actually do something.

[klaasend]

Yes, I wish Geraldo had kept his big nose out of it.  I feel they would have talked much longer about it if he hadn't been so quick to dismiss it right out of hand.

It may not be much and it probably isn't Natalee but we can use it for all it's worth to keep her tragedy in the media and the spotlight on Aruba.  Just let them know the world has not forgotten her for one minute and is just waiting and watching for them to actually do something.

Exactly Anna

[texasmom]

Hi Monkeys!!!
   Just poppin in and checking things after this photo showed up.Personally,I still think Natalee was already found on the bottom of the ocean in a trap...  Bones turning to powder..It just doesn't seem logical to me that this is her. After-all,only God knows how many folks come up missing in Aruba and surrounding areas so this could simply just be a drug dealer gone down..Still believing in justice for Natalee one day but I do believe she was found and then went missing again... My hinky meter never left that trap...jmo

Good to see you Tater!   

I agree with you.   

[bikerbev]

If I'm looking at the skeleton correctly, it looks as if it's wearing a long sleeve shirt or jacket.  Natalee didn't have on long sleeves.  Does anybody else see that?

[Tamikosmom]

Blah

In the past two months why wasn't Patti Muldowney contacted by FBI in Barbados or the Aruban investigators in regards to the location that she was snorkeling.  The issue is human remains for crying out loud.  Where is the urgency?

 

The lack of a response to the photo by the Aruban "powers that be" convinces me that something is hinky.

Janet

Janet - I think you are right.  And I have a very sick feeling that this is our girl in this picture. 

The following article implies that the chain of command broke down somewhere between the Philadelphia FBI and the Miami FBI.  This would imply that Aruba Law Enforcement was unaware of the photo.

Blah ... I suspect IF the photo reveals skeletal remains ... they are not those of Natalee Holloway.  Although I did waver for a very short period of time ... I cannot let go of Kyle Kingman's own word in post after post after post regarding the happenings on board the Persistence.

Janet

++++++

Couple finds 'skeleton' in Aruba picture
Intelligencer Journal
Lancaster New Era
Mar 18, 2010 00:06 EST
Oranjestad

The FBI in Philadelphia sent the picture to its senior investigators who work in the Caribbean.

"We did receive that photo, and it was sent to the lead agent down in Miami who handles that area in the Caribbean," said Special Agent Frank Burton Jr., a spokesman for the FBI's field office in Philadelphia.

It is unclear what happened to the photo after that. The FBI in Miami said it has no record of getting it, and neither does the agency's legal attaché in Barbados, which has jurisdiction over Aruba.

http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/249987


Aruban police say they will look into skeleton photo
By Erin Stock -- The Birmingham News
March 18, 2010, 2:50PM

The Aruban police's lead investigator on the Natalee Holloway case said today he was unaware of a photo taken by an American tourist who believes the image shows what could be the missing teen's body on the ocean floor.

Deputy Chief Adolpho Richardson said his team of investigators will look into it, in a telephone interview with The Birmingham News.

"Of course," he said. "We look at everything."

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/03/aruban_police_say_they_will_lo.html

[bikerbev]

Humans bones don't turn into powder in salt water.  First of all, there are skeletons found in all types of ships that have been in the water for hundreds of years.  http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119593351/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
I would think since salt is a preservative it would do that with human bones.  I'm not biologist, so I don't know.

[Tamikosmom]

Hi Monkeys!!!
   Just poppin in and checking things after this photo showed up.Personally,I still think Natalee was already found on the bottom of the ocean in a trap...  Bones turning to powder..It just doesn't seem logical to me that this is her. After-all,only God knows how many folks come up missing in Aruba and surrounding areas so this could simply just be a drug dealer gone down..Still believing in justice for Natalee one day but I do believe she was found and then went missing again... My hinky meter never left that trap...jmo

Hi Tater

I agree.

How are you doing?  You have been missed.

Janet

++++++


Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  While we were searching shortly before Christmas, we were contacted by an Aruban detective who was involved in the Holloway case

Kyle Kingman:  Just before Christmas they are contacted by a detective and his brother who gave them information that turned out to be the correct latitude.

Kyle Kingman:  The detective's brother gave what he thought were coordinates, but turned out to be a line of latitude. This latitude aligned with Arashi beach and came within a half mile of the fish trap

Kyle Kingman:  The implications of this are tremendous. If true, it means that the early investigators knew where and how Natalee was disposed and it was kept secret and covered up.

Kyle Kingman:   I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand.

Kyle Kingman:  Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment.

Kyle Kingman:  Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys

[texasmom]

Natalee Holloway »
Aruban police say they will look into skeleton photo
By Erin Stock -- The Birmingham News
March 18, 2010, 2:50PM

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/03/aruban_police_say_they_will_lo.html

In this October 2009 underwater photo provided by John F. Muldowney, is shown a portion of the ocean floor off the coast of Aruba. Muldowney feels the photo, taken by his wife, Patti, while the couple was on vacation in Aruba, may show the remains of Natalee Holloway. (AP Photo/Patti Muldowney)
The Aruban police's lead investigator on the Natalee Holloway case said today he was unaware of a photo taken by an American tourist who believes the image shows what could be the missing teen's body on the ocean floor.
The Birmingham News

Natalee Holloway (Birmingham News file)

Deputy Chief Adolpho Richardson said his team of investigators will look into it, in a telephone interview with The Birmingham News.

"Of course," he said. "We look at everything."

Richardson said authorities are still actively investigating the Mountain Brook girl's disappearance. Holloway vanished in 2005 on a high school graduation trip to the Caribbean island.

"We try to leave no stone unturned, so we will look into it," Richardson said. "Although the chances are very slim that it will lead to any results."

Divers have conducted a thorough search of the waters, Richardson said. But he said if a body was dumped at sea, "it could be even in Panama. You never know."

Richardson also said a recent on-air confession by suspect Joran van der Sloot on Dutch television has produced new leads. He said he remains hopeful that investigators will uncover

what happened to Holloway.what happened to Holloway.

Aw crap!  Why Richardson????????  That's just really, really, really BAD!!

I agree, sickening isn't it?   

[texasmom]

Maybe since these "new" photos are hitting the air -- maybe WE should re-release the "cage" photos............................. I think WE have a more intriguing story to share!! 

Did anybody ever send the pics to Jen Hale?  I agree with Wreck.  Send the clips of Tim Miller on Steph Watts' show as well. 

It's high time somebody put a TV news camera on Silvetti and asked him WTH?!  Not to mention somebody needs to pull Tim Trehan's scuba card.   

JMO and only MO

Newp - not only your opinion, mine too. 

Mine three!  What's taking so long!   

[jen3560]

TxMom - it really is.

And I'm also curious about his statement that divers have conducted a thorough search of teh waters.

Really?

When?

And who?

[texasmom]

I was wondering when 24ora and awe24 would pick up the story 

I still can't believe that Joran is in Aruba. 

If I remember correctly, he may not want to go back to the Netherlands because they were chasing him down the street, and there is a lot of unrest right now in Bangkok, Thailand.    http://www1.voanews.com/policy/editorials/Protests-In-Thailand-88455632.html  So maybe Aruba is as good a hidey hole as any other place. 

Well that's true but I know there are many Arubans that aren't happy with Joran.  It's a small island and I would feel very uncomfortable if I were him. 

Maybe he enjoys a certain amount of notoriety.     I wonder if it just takes time for the fear  PVDS held over some (basically blackmail)to wear down.   It doesn't appear PVDS was popular.  It seems more he had stuff on people and he used it to his advantage to control the them.  I don't know who's left on the island or even in the Netherlands that want to go to bat for Joran any more.  He's been quite the liability for a long time now and  with no PVDS to run cover, maybe Joran's on borrowed time, but he won't admit it, even to himself.  He is a sociopath, after all.  JMHO

I don't know.  I'd sure like to think of Joran as unwelcome and uncomfortable on his 'home turf', but I'm just not sure that island has changed at all, let alone enough to disown Joran.  If it is still an accepted practice to drug and rape the tourist girls then I don't imagine anyone has much trouble with Joran being back in town.  He's probably drinking and playing poker in the casinos with Sebastian these days.  Wouldn't surprise me at all.   

That is what I've heard.  Not from a reliable source, but it's what's being said anyway.

Wasn't it rumored that Paulus had gambling debts?  IIRC that was mentioned in a comment about why the law partnership dissolved.

If it's true that Joran's there maybe it has something to do with that, and could be why he hasn't floated up on the beach yet?   

[texasmom]

Happy Friday Monkeys! 

Happy Friday jen!  It's a beautiful day here!  I'm lovin' the sunshine!