Chelsea King, 17, Missing 2-25-2010 Rancho Bernadino CA (BODY FOUND)

[Missiontoconvict]

Hash House Harrier members who know the couple declined to comment yesterday.            Of course they did 

[no rose colored glasses]

Hash House Harrier members who know the couple declined to comment yesterday.            Of course they did 

And look at some of the comments going down on the article that Northern posted 

[Missiontoconvict]

Hash House Harrier members who know the couple declined to comment yesterday.            Of course they did 

And look at some of the comments going down on the article that Northern posted 

On my way - just hope they changed their names.  Thank you for the article Northern Rose.

[piwannaberookie]

smugmug took their photos down... and said it was because of Scared Monkeys lol.

[no rose colored glasses]

smugmug took their photos down... and said it was because of Scared Monkeys lol.

   

[klaasend]

In all fairness to most of the Hashers, they just don't want to be in the limelight and who could blame them.  They don't want to be associated with JAG and I don't blame them for that either.  What JAG did is not the fault of the Hashing community as a whole even if JAG's motives end up linking back to some of the Hasher run trails. 

[Northern Rose]

Klaas, I have read through comments on both articles that have been posted about the group and connection with DrZ and ECT in the last 24 hours.  There are either people who are defending the group and what they do or denouncing them; nothing in the middle.  I can only imagine the emails you are getting over this.  JAG is convicted of assaulting a young girl and is a RSO.  He is accused of murdering Chelsea, being investigated for the murder of Amber both on or near the same trails that the Hashers used. There are pictures of the Hasher's socializing with JAG.  They don't want to be associated with JAG but they are and that can not be changed especially for the ones in the pictures with JAG at Thanksgiving.   

[klaasend]

May have already been posted:

http://www.cbs8.com/Global/story.asp?S=12115918

Probation report cites predatory traits of suspect
Posted: Mar 10, 2010 7:15 AM PST Updated: Mar 10, 2010 7:24 AM PST

LOS ANGELES (AP) — A decade-old probation report on a sex offender accused of murdering California teenager Chelsea King contained a psychiatrist's conclusion that the defendant had "significant predatory traits" toward underage girls and should be kept in prison for as long as possible.

"The defendant does not suffer from a psychotic disorder," a probation officer quoted Dr. Matthew F. Carroll as saying for the report. "He is simply a bad guy who is inordinately interested in young girls."

Carroll further said John Albert Gardner III's "predilection toward younger girls is a problem. He manifests significant predatory traits and is a danger to the community," the officer wrote.

The report released by the San Diego County Superior Court on Tuesday was prepared in 2000 for the sentencing of the then-21-year-old Gardner after he pleaded guilty to committing lewd and lascivious acts on a 13-year-old neighbor girl who had skipped school. The victim was also punched repeatedly before escaping.

The probation officer recommended a so-called middle term of six years, reasoning in part that Gardner had no prior criminal record. A judge ordered the six-year term and Gardner served five before being paroled.

The report says Gardner moved to five different cities through his childhood and recounts the breakup of his parents when he was 5. It also details his work in construction, as a lifeguard, ride operator for four months at a Santa's Village theme park, and at a fast-food restaurant and sporting goods store.

Carroll expressed doubt of Gardner's claim of having attention deficit hyperactivity disorder that required up to 18 medications, noting he hadn't taken medications since age 16 but still had a 3.2 grade-point average in high school, had done well in life and had a relatively high IQ, the report said.

"Therefore, Dr. Carroll's conclusion is that the defendant is 'just a bad, bad kid,'" the officer wrote.

The report also noted that the psychiatrist was disturbed by a trespassing incident in which Gardner had been hanging around a high school, as well as a statement by Gardner that a purported fiancee had an abortion because she was afraid she couldn't raise the child by herself.

"This statement seems very odd to Dr. Carroll," the report said. "He finds pervasive oddness in this case."

A defense sentencing memorandum dismissed the mention of the high school incident, saying Gardner was a student there at the time, it was after hours and no charges were filed.

Gardner, 30, is now charged with murdering King, 17, of Poway, with a special circumstance of rape or attempted rape. She disappeared Feb. 25 and her presumed body was found March 2 buried in a park near the communities of Poway, Escondido and Rancho Bernardo north of San Diego.

Gardner is also charged with assaulting a woman in the same park in December with intent to rape, and is the focus of an investigation into the disappearance of 14-year-old Amber Dubois in early 2009 as she walked to school in Escondido. Her skeletal remains were found Saturday on an Indian reservation.

Judge David J. Danielsen ordered the redacted probation report to be made available.

Carroll has declined to talk publicly, but a colleague last week described his blunt warnings about Gardner and said Carroll had not wanted there to be any ambiguity about the assessment.

Gardner, whose mother lives in Rancho Bernardo, was arrested at an Escondido restaurant on Feb. 28. A state Justice Department spokeswoman said he was identified by DNA analysis of semen on a piece of King's clothing.

Gardner, who has pleaded not guilty to the current charges, was in court Tuesday as a judge pushed back the date of his preliminary hearing from March 18 to Aug. 4. A preliminary hearing is an initial examination of evidence so the judge can decide whether the case should proceed to trial.

The prosecution has vowed not to discuss the case outside of court, and Gardner's public defender has withheld all comment. Still, the judge also issued a gag order.

Meanwhile, California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger ordered authorities to retain all parole records on sex offenders after learning the files of Gardner had been destroyed last fall, just a year after he had completed three years of parole supervision.

The Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation disclosed the documents had been destroyed in a response Friday to a records request by The Associated Press.

Department spokesman Oscar Hidalgo said 10,000 ex-convicts each month are placed on parole or released from parole. The system would be overwhelmed by paper records if it didn't shred them quickly, he said.

He also said portions of Gardner's parole records were transferred to his central file, which is kept for 30 years.

Officials were reviewing what they can release, considering legal privacy restrictions and the judge's gag order.

[labubske]

Probation report cites predatory traits of suspect


LOS ANGELES -- A decade-old probation report on a sex offender accused of murdering California teenager Chelsea King contained a psychiatrist's conclusion that the defendant had "significant predatory traits" toward underage girls and should be kept in prison for as long as possible.

"The defendant does not suffer from a psychotic disorder," a probation officer quoted Dr. Matthew F. Carroll as saying for the report. "He is simply a bad guy who is inordinately interested in young girls."

Carroll further said John Albert Gardner III's "predilection toward younger girls is a problem. He manifests significant predatory traits and is a danger to the community," the officer wrote.

The report released by the San Diego County Superior Court on Tuesday was prepared in 2000 for the sentencing of the then-21-year-old Gardner after he pleaded guilty to committing lewd and lascivious acts on a 13-year-old neighbor girl who had skipped school. The victim was also punched repeatedly before escaping.

The probation officer recommended a so-called middle term of six years, reasoning in part that Gardner had no prior criminal record. A judge ordered the six-year term and Gardner served five before being paroled.

The report says Gardner moved to five different cities through his childhood and recounts the breakup of his parents when he was 5. It also details his work in construction, as a lifeguard, ride operator for four months at a Santa's Village theme park, and at a fast-food restaurant and sporting goods store.

Carroll expressed doubt of Gardner's claim of having attention deficit hyperactivity disorder that required up to 18 medications, noting he hadn't taken medications since age 16 but still had a 3.2 grade-point average in high school, had done well in life and had a relatively high IQ, the report said.

"Therefore, Dr. Carroll's conclusion is that the defendant is 'just a bad, bad kid,'" the officer wrote.

The report also noted that the psychiatrist was disturbed by a trespassing incident in which Gardner had been hanging around a high school, as well as a statement by Gardner that a purported fiancee had an abortion because she was afraid she couldn't raise the child by herself.

"This statement seems very odd to Dr. Carroll," the report said. "He finds pervasive oddness in this case."

A defense sentencing memorandum dismissed the mention of the high school incident, saying Gardner was a student there at the time, it was after hours and no charges were filed.

Gardner, 30, is now charged with murdering King, 17, of Poway, with a special circumstance of rape or attempted rape. She disappeared Feb. 25 and her presumed body was found March 2 buried in a park near the communities of Poway, Escondido and Rancho Bernardo north of San Diego.

MORE....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/09/AR2010030900222.html

I wonder why he was hanging around the school after hours?  How often?  Was an event finishing up?  Were any girls missing during his time in high school?  How about the report that I posted from the very beginning...wondering if he had any connection with the alledged raping of girls in the forest parties?  They said that it happened when JAG should have been going to school there?  Any follow ups with this?

[Northern Rose]

RB's strong Neighborhood Watch program didn't protect Chelsea

San Diego - The signs in Rancho Bernardo, are everywhere: "Warning...Neighborhood Watch. We look out for each other." But the community vigilance wasn't enough to prevent the murder of a high school student in a community park.

"We've adopted the mission or motto shal we say of neighbors helping neighbors live safe and secure," said Gary Carlson, Rancho Bernardo's Neighborhood Watch Director.

Gary Carlson has lived Rancho Bernardo for more than 35 years. For the past four, he's been a volunteer with the local Neighborhood Watch. He now heads the volunteer board that oversees the program. Highly organized, Carlson said communication is key. That's because the group is responsible for 45,000 people living in the area.

"We're divided up by seven districts, and each of those districts has maybe five, 10, 15 areas. And they have maybe 100 blocks in each of them," Carlson said.

Rancho Bernado's program is touted as being one of the best programs in San Diego County. Block captains facilitate the interaction between community members and the board. The board in turn, works directly with the San Diego police department. The group has a Web site and even offers detailed crime reports for the area.

The Neighborhood Watch program in Carmel Valley Pacific Highlands Ranch works a little differently. Up and running only two years, about 100 volunteers patrol the neighborhood of approximately 1,200 homes. They are easily identifiable in baseball caps and safety vests.

San Diego police Officer David Surwilo is the Community Relations officer for the western division. There are over 200 watch groups in his division. He said they play a pivotal role in helping to curtail crime.

"Law enforcement is becoming burdened with doing a lot more with a lot less," Surwilo said. "Most certainly Neighborhood Watch groups and the citizens are the first to recognize and understand a problem within their neighborhood."

http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/kswb-neighborhood-watch-programs,0,647698.story

[Tracygirl]

121 comments on that last story that came out.  Looks like the Hashers do not like the publicity.  I have no idea how they can deny the pictures and write ups they have themselves plastered all over the internet.  Seems they are not so proud now that it is in the media.

 

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/mar/09/gardners-family-took-part-run-day-attack/

Wow those comments are over the top. They should be on there saying they are sorry and hope to god their group didn't give this man any idea's. Instead they are defending public nudity and drinking? There is no arguing with this mentality.

[Gypsy DD]

121 comments on that last story that came out.  Looks like the Hashers do not like the publicity.  I have no idea how they can deny the pictures and write ups they have themselves plastered all over the internet.  Seems they are not so proud now that it is in the media.

 

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/mar/09/gardners-family-took-part-run-day-attack/

Wow those comments are over the top. They should be on there saying they are sorry and hope to god their group didn't give this man any idea's. Instead they are defending public nudity and drinking? There is no arguing with this mentality.

They could be a great source to LE..hope Mom and her partner are talking..because I have a feeling that this guy has rapes and attempted rapes..maybe more murders.

I also have a feeling if you would grid the HH runs and possibly times..but just the runs would be an answer to some of the missing people in the areas.

[Tracygirl]

No it is not their fault, that is true, Gardner did the crimes,  but they cannot say they had nothing to do with inspiring his thoughts. They should be saying their are sorry and hope their "risque running/drinking club" had nothing to do with inspiring any idea's of this registered sex offender, rapist, murderer. For them to say their group had no part in this is wrong and stupid on their part.

Scared Monkeys is full of mean people, wawawawa.

[Missiontoconvict]

Some of their comments are disturbing, it is obvious this group has no inhibitions about their sexuality in their minds it is acceptable to be nude in a group and participate in group affairs with each other.  There is one comment over there that says;

"There's nothing wrong with nudity and there's no data to show that being exposed to nudity causes a person to turn into a sexual predator." 

Data?  Hmmmm I believe children learn what they live and are products of their environments.  I think they are missing the point. It is what goes along with the nudity when there is heavy drinking, intoxication and other factors that come into play.  I think they have to be intoxicated in order to be uninhibited. I don't see this as productive play, if you are someone like JAG it certainly it is far from therapeutic it is lethal.

Klaas I understand what you are saying, but if I can, I would like to say that if they don't want to be in the limelight then they should not be on the news forums attacking those who have questions and want answers about what happened to these 2 beautiful girls. I didn't see them coming out defending their love for the "run" with concerns about the safety of the trails after an attack and Chelsea's murder  - they came out once their hashing group was exposed and has an association to JAG.

[klaasend]

I received this email from a Hasher that lives (it sounds) on the East coast.  He/she explains about the Hashers and also why some of the sites have come down. 

This person has been very civil in emails to me and it's with their approval I post the message below:

To:  Klaasend (via email)
From:  Name removed

I am a hasher on the opposite side of the country. Apparently, no one regularly on your SM site either is a hasher, knows a hasher personally, nor knows anything about hashing firsthand.  Very much of what I have read posted here about hashers is supposition and fabrication based on the little information you've seen. I only want to be able to set the record straight and perhaps answer your questions about hashing.

I have seen slanderous words about hashing and generalizing about hashers as, among many other things, a swinger's organization, a cult, a gang of pedophiles, and even perhaps as a front for a group of murderers.  There are warning emails going around the hashing community warning about THIS SM website, linking your members to the vandalism of property of the hashers you have been posting about. THIS is why everyone is being hasty in removing information from the web. They are worried about the nut-jobs (whether or not they are members of your website) who may read your posts of their personal information including phone numbers, addresses, and places of employment, and walking outside to find someone has damaged their property, or worse, is laying in wait for a physical attack.  While I am certain that the intent of your website is nowhere near urging people to become vigilantes, that very well could be the end result. Put yourself in our shoes and imagine what would happen if one of the people who actually has committed some of the very atrocities your website denounces gained access to a list of your members addresses, phone numbers, and places of employment. It would not sit well with you, I'd think. And while it is true that all of the information your members have gathered and posted about the hashers is widely available on the internet, this SM forum is denouncing it in a fashion that a less than mentally stable person would be able to easily act upon.  This website is becoming, if you will, a one-stop shop for someone whom wants to go out and "achieve justice" where none is due. That is why we are scared.


Now, a little about hashing. Obviously, this is not something for everyone. But yes, hashers run... as badly out of shape as some of us are, we do go on trails. Some are not in shape enough to run, and will walk the trails, but I don't know of anyone who doesn't at the very least attempt the trail. These are simple, old fashioned "hound and hare" runs.  The one to three hares lay a trail of flour, chalk, or toilet paper (all ecologically friendly) for the pack of hounds to follow. At the end of the trail, or a portion of the trail, is beer. It's really that simple as far as the actual hash goes.  It ends with circle where people will do down-downs, occasionally get named, etc., all while singing our silly songs. Our language and behavior is often lewd and sophomoric, and some of the wilder occasions may involve a little nudity for added shock value amongst ourselves. We typically do not hide our photos or information from outsiders, because we are an open group that allows anyone to come join. I saw that someone posted something about virgins. That is our term for someone who hasn't hashed before and has NOTHING to do with children.  Most kennels (the term for a local group) do not allow children. Those that do are significantly cleaned up in language and behavior.


Hashers come from all walks of life. I know people who are military personnel, lawyers, engineers, teachers, college professors, atheltes, web designers, housewives, dentists, nurses, physical therapists, and dozens of other professions. The vast majority of hashers I know are great people who would go well out of their way to do a favor for an acquaintance of an acquaintance. As with any group of people, there are a few bad nuts, but of all of them that I know, I can't say there are any that I'd rather not know.  Hashing is an activity that is pursued worldwide, in most major cities of the world, and many smaller ones as well.  We make fun of each other at any opportunity, which is where the hash names come from.

I offer you the opportunity to ask anything you'd like about hashing.  If it is acceptable to you, I'd be happy to post on the scared monkey site.  If it is something particular about people in San Diego, then I will likely not know, as I haven't had the opportunity to hash there yet. But the opinion of us being posted on your site is mostly off base.  We are just a group of (mostly) normal people who engage in a little odd behavior a few times a month to blow off a little steam and have fun.

Respectfully,

(name removed)

[SDDad]

This is my first post. 

Here are some links I found while waiting to get approved.

JAG's step-dad's business
DAP Electric, Daniel Alfred Poppe
http://poppeelectric.com/

JAG's mom's nursing license
http://www2.dca.ca.gov/pls/wllpub/WLLQRYNA$LCEV2.QueryView?P_LICENSE_NUMBER=382721&P_LTE_ID=828

[klaasend]

Welcome SDDad! 

[klaasend]

Is Poppe her first husband prior to having John or is Poppe the stepdad that John really liked in Lake Arrowhead?

[Northern Rose]

This is my first post. 

Here are some links I found while waiting to get approved.

JAG's step-dad's business
DAP Electric, Daniel Alfred Poppe
http://poppeelectric.com/

JAG's mom's nursing license
http://www2.dca.ca.gov/pls/wllpub/WLLQRYNA$LCEV2.QueryView?P_LICENSE_NUMBER=382721&P_LTE_ID=828

  WELCOME SDDad   

[Northern Rose]

This is my first post. 

Here are some links I found while waiting to get approved.

JAG's step-dad's business
DAP Electric, Daniel Alfred Poppe
http://poppeelectric.com/

JAG's mom's nursing license
http://www2.dca.ca.gov/pls/wllpub/WLLQRYNA$LCEV2.QueryView?P_LICENSE_NUMBER=382721&P_LTE_ID=828

The link for DAP electric is for a company in Canada, no branches or services in the US listed.  Are we sure this is the correct company?