Chelsea King, 17, Missing 2-25-2010 Rancho Bernadino CA (BODY FOUND)

[Tracygirl]

I agree with Gypsy, they could be very valuable in offering information to the police. I hope they can put aside their love of "hashing" for a moment to do something to help.

I hope they can understand the theme of their group whether it is something that is approved of or not, has no place around a memory run for a girl which was raped and murdered. I pray they consider canceling the run, please cancel the run. The thought of those names being uttered around the place she was killed just makes me want to vomit.

[no rose colored glasses]

This is my first post. 

Here are some links I found while waiting to get approved.

JAG's step-dad's business
DAP Electric, Daniel Alfred Poppe
http://poppeelectric.com/

JAG's mom's nursing license
http://www2.dca.ca.gov/pls/wllpub/WLLQRYNA$LCEV2.QueryView?P_LICENSE_NUMBER=382721&P_LTE_ID=828

WELCOME  and thank-you 

[Missiontoconvict]

This is my first post. 

Here are some links I found while waiting to get approved.

JAG's step-dad's business
DAP Electric, Daniel Alfred Poppe
http://poppeelectric.com/

JAG's mom's nursing license
http://www2.dca.ca.gov/pls/wllpub/WLLQRYNA$LCEV2.QueryView?P_LICENSE_NUMBER=382721&P_LTE_ID=828

Welcome to the cage SDDad 

[SDDad]

This is my first post. 

Here are some links I found while waiting to get approved.

JAG's step-dad's business
DAP Electric, Daniel Alfred Poppe
http://poppeelectric.com/

JAG's mom's nursing license
http://www2.dca.ca.gov/pls/wllpub/WLLQRYNA$LCEV2.QueryView?P_LICENSE_NUMBER=382721&P_LTE_ID=828

The link for DAP electric is for a company in Canada, no branches or services in the US listed.  Are we sure this is the correct company?

Yes, that is actually Ontario, California.  Notice the 909 area code listed at the bottom.

JAG practiced electrical work, a trade he most likely learned from his step-dad.

[Northern Rose]

This is my first post. 

Here are some links I found while waiting to get approved.

JAG's step-dad's business
DAP Electric, Daniel Alfred Poppe
http://poppeelectric.com/

JAG's mom's nursing license
http://www2.dca.ca.gov/pls/wllpub/WLLQRYNA$LCEV2.QueryView?P_LICENSE_NUMBER=382721&P_LTE_ID=828

The link for DAP electric is for a company in Canada, no branches or services in the US listed.  Are we sure this is the correct company?

Yes, that is actually Ontario, California.  Notice the 909 area code listed at the bottom.

JAG practiced electrical work, a trade he most likely learned from his step-dad.

Thank you for clarifying.  I saw CA and Ontario together and thought Canada.   

[Gypsy DD]

I received this email from a Hasher that lives (it sounds) on the East coast.  He/she explains about the Hashers and also why some of the sites have come down. 

This person has been very civil in emails to me and it's with their approval I post the message below:

To:  Klaasend (via email)
From:  Name removed

I am a hasher on the opposite side of the country. Apparently, no one regularly on your SM site either is a hasher, knows a hasher personally, nor knows anything about hashing firsthand.  Very much of what I have read posted here about hashers is supposition and fabrication based on the little information you've seen. I only want to be able to set the record straight and perhaps answer your questions about hashing.

I have seen slanderous words about hashing and generalizing about hashers as, among many other things, a swinger's organization, a cult, a gang of pedophiles, and even perhaps as a front for a group of murderers.  There are warning emails going around the hashing community warning about THIS SM website, linking your members to the vandalism of property of the hashers you have been posting about. THIS is why everyone is being hasty in removing information from the web. They are worried about the nut-jobs (whether or not they are members of your website) who may read your posts of their personal information including phone numbers, addresses, and places of employment, and walking outside to find someone has damaged their property, or worse, is laying in wait for a physical attack.  While I am certain that the intent of your website is nowhere near urging people to become vigilantes, that very well could be the end result. Put yourself in our shoes and imagine what would happen if one of the people who actually has committed some of the very atrocities your website denounces gained access to a list of your members addresses, phone numbers, and places of employment. It would not sit well with you, I'd think. And while it is true that all of the information your members have gathered and posted about the hashers is widely available on the internet, this SM forum is denouncing it in a fashion that a less than mentally stable person would be able to easily act upon.  This website is becoming, if you will, a one-stop shop for someone whom wants to go out and "achieve justice" where none is due. That is why we are scared.


Now, a little about hashing. Obviously, this is not something for everyone. But yes, hashers run... as badly out of shape as some of us are, we do go on trails. Some are not in shape enough to run, and will walk the trails, but I don't know of anyone who doesn't at the very least attempt the trail. These are simple, old fashioned "hound and hare" runs.  The one to three hares lay a trail of flour, chalk, or toilet paper (all ecologically friendly) for the pack of hounds to follow. At the end of the trail, or a portion of the trail, is beer. It's really that simple as far as the actual hash goes.  It ends with circle where people will do down-downs, occasionally get named, etc., all while singing our silly songs. Our language and behavior is often lewd and sophomoric, and some of the wilder occasions may involve a little nudity for added shock value amongst ourselves. We typically do not hide our photos or information from outsiders, because we are an open group that allows anyone to come join. I saw that someone posted something about virgins. That is our term for someone who hasn't hashed before and has NOTHING to do with children.  Most kennels (the term for a local group) do not allow children. Those that do are significantly cleaned up in language and behavior.


Hashers come from all walks of life. I know people who are military personnel, lawyers, engineers, teachers, college professors, atheltes, web designers, housewives, dentists, nurses, physical therapists, and dozens of other professions. The vast majority of hashers I know are great people who would go well out of their way to do a favor for an acquaintance of an acquaintance. As with any group of people, there are a few bad nuts, but of all of them that I know, I can't say there are any that I'd rather not know.  Hashing is an activity that is pursued worldwide, in most major cities of the world, and many smaller ones as well.  We make fun of each other at any opportunity, which is where the hash names come from.

I offer you the opportunity to ask anything you'd like about hashing.  If it is acceptable to you, I'd be happy to post on the scared monkey site.  If it is something particular about people in San Diego, then I will likely not know, as I haven't had the opportunity to hash there yet. But the opinion of us being posted on your site is mostly off base.  We are just a group of (mostly) normal people who engage in a little odd behavior a few times a month to blow off a little steam and have fun.

Respectfully,

(name removed)

This was a very respectful letter.  This person seems to be level headed.  I appreciate the time they took to write this and that you posted it Klaas.

However ..I don't think anyone here is interested in what other Hashers do in their clubs.  Basically our interest is in the particular club that his Mom and her partner belonged due to the fact this is not a good environment for an RSO.  You have to wonder what were they thinking?

That being said ..I think any trails that the Hash Humpers ran in SD are fair to look at as possible areas of other crimes that JAG may have committed.  Where these girls were found does coincide with HH hash runs.  This would give him knowledge of the place and also place him in the vicinity at the time of the alleged crimes.  That is a very important fact that can not be overlooked.

So sorry if they do not like us looking into their activities and runs..but their seems to be atleast some correlation between the HH group and JAG.  I would think these people would be more concerned about having had this RSO with them, then about their own upholding of the club.

[Edward]

I think if you want to be respected as a research web site, then you must have respect.

Other then that then we just turn into an over rated chat room.


That letter says it all.

jmho

[Northern Rose]

I received this email from a Hasher that lives (it sounds) on the East coast.  He/she explains about the Hashers and also why some of the sites have come down. 

This person has been very civil in emails to me and it's with their approval I post the message below:

To:  Klaasend (via email)
From:  Name removed

I am a hasher on the opposite side of the country. Apparently, no one regularly on your SM site either is a hasher, knows a hasher personally, nor knows anything about hashing firsthand.  Very much of what I have read posted here about hashers is supposition and fabrication based on the little information you've seen. I only want to be able to set the record straight and perhaps answer your questions about hashing.

I have seen slanderous words about hashing and generalizing about hashers as, among many other things, a swinger's organization, a cult, a gang of pedophiles, and even perhaps as a front for a group of murderers.  There are warning emails going around the hashing community warning about THIS SM website, linking your members to the vandalism of property of the hashers you have been posting about. THIS is why everyone is being hasty in removing information from the web. They are worried about the nut-jobs (whether or not they are members of your website) who may read your posts of their personal information including phone numbers, addresses, and places of employment, and walking outside to find someone has damaged their property, or worse, is laying in wait for a physical attack.  While I am certain that the intent of your website is nowhere near urging people to become vigilantes, that very well could be the end result. Put yourself in our shoes and imagine what would happen if one of the people who actually has committed some of the very atrocities your website denounces gained access to a list of your members addresses, phone numbers, and places of employment. It would not sit well with you, I'd think. And while it is true that all of the information your members have gathered and posted about the hashers is widely available on the internet, this SM forum is denouncing it in a fashion that a less than mentally stable person would be able to easily act upon.  This website is becoming, if you will, a one-stop shop for someone whom wants to go out and "achieve justice" where none is due. That is why we are scared.


Now, a little about hashing. Obviously, this is not something for everyone. But yes, hashers run... as badly out of shape as some of us are, we do go on trails. Some are not in shape enough to run, and will walk the trails, but I don't know of anyone who doesn't at the very least attempt the trail. These are simple, old fashioned "hound and hare" runs.  The one to three hares lay a trail of flour, chalk, or toilet paper (all ecologically friendly) for the pack of hounds to follow. At the end of the trail, or a portion of the trail, is beer. It's really that simple as far as the actual hash goes.  It ends with circle where people will do down-downs, occasionally get named, etc., all while singing our silly songs. Our language and behavior is often lewd and sophomoric, and some of the wilder occasions may involve a little nudity for added shock value amongst ourselves. We typically do not hide our photos or information from outsiders, because we are an open group that allows anyone to come join. I saw that someone posted something about virgins. That is our term for someone who hasn't hashed before and has NOTHING to do with children.  Most kennels (the term for a local group) do not allow children. Those that do are significantly cleaned up in language and behavior.


Hashers come from all walks of life. I know people who are military personnel, lawyers, engineers, teachers, college professors, atheltes, web designers, housewives, dentists, nurses, physical therapists, and dozens of other professions. The vast majority of hashers I know are great people who would go well out of their way to do a favor for an acquaintance of an acquaintance. As with any group of people, there are a few bad nuts, but of all of them that I know, I can't say there are any that I'd rather not know.  Hashing is an activity that is pursued worldwide, in most major cities of the world, and many smaller ones as well.  We make fun of each other at any opportunity, which is where the hash names come from.

I offer you the opportunity to ask anything you'd like about hashing.  If it is acceptable to you, I'd be happy to post on the scared monkey site.  If it is something particular about people in San Diego, then I will likely not know, as I haven't had the opportunity to hash there yet. But the opinion of us being posted on your site is mostly off base.  We are just a group of (mostly) normal people who engage in a little odd behavior a few times a month to blow off a little steam and have fun.

Respectfully,

(name removed)

This was a very respectful letter.  This person seems to be level headed.  I appreciate the time they took to write this and that you posted it Klaas.

However ..I don't think anyone here is interested in what other Hashers do in their clubs.  Basically our interest is in the particular club that his Mom and her partner belonged due to the fact this is not a good environment for an RSO.  You have to wonder what were they thinking?

That being said ..I think any trails that the Hash Humpers ran in SD are fair to look at as possible areas of other crimes that JAG may have committed.  Where these girls were found does coincide with HH hash runs.  This would give him knowledge of the place and also place him in the vicinity at the time of the alleged crimes.  That is a very important fact that can not be overlooked.

So sorry if they do not like us looking into their activities and runs..but their seems to be atleast some correlation between the HH group and JAG.  I would think these people would be more concerned about having had this RSO with them, then about their own upholding of the club. 

This letter is well written and respectful.  DrZ and ECT have been involved with the club for years based on what we have found.  JAG has been at the house while hashers where over which is documented by the pictures.  There are two maps of runs that coincide with areas that girls have been attacked, murdered and or remains discovered.  There may be more but we will not know as the sites have been locked down.  One bad nut does not make a whole tree rotten.  For those that did not know JAG was a RSO, they do now and you would think they would be happy to have that knowledge as some must have wives, daughters, nieces that they would not want around a RSO regardless who that person was. 

I am sure they do come from all walks of life.  IF the ones commenting on the news articles are correct that there are police, firemen and military that are part of this group then I understand their anger right now.  Up here when you become a member of the police you sign a long contract that basically says you are a cop on and off duty and there is morality involved and conduct.  Some of these pictures being public may not be good for their careers.  I personally could care less as they are adults and have chosen to do this of their own choice, partook in the activities and allowed pictures to be taken and posted.  What I do care about is that Chelsea and Amber were murdered and that should never have happened.  Warning letters about SM linking our members to the vandalism of property of the hashers I take offense to.  We have not fabricated or manufactured the information or images just posted them on one thread.   We have no more control of what "nut-jobs" may or may not do after reading what is posted then they do of what "nut-jobs" may or may not do in the hashs or activites associated with them.   JMO.

[Tracygirl]

Gypsy I agree with what you said so I will just say ditto.
Edward sometimes when doing research we come along things which are going to upset people, that is what is happening. It can't stop us.

[Nut44x4]

....I do not know if this has been posted yet.....

**This needs to be implemented in all of North America ASAP! If they are going to continue to release these predators back into society (which I am against, period! 1-strike/you're out has been my motto for years!) they need to be able to track them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

'Chelsea's Law' Could Track Sex Offenders Via GPS

Known sex offenders should be outfitted with GPS devices that would track their movements and immediately alert police if predators travelled to restricted areas near schools or parks, a California lawmaker told ABC News.com.

Following the alleged rape and murder of 17-year-old high school student Chelsea King by convicted sex offender John Albert Gardner III, Assemblyman Nathan Fletcher, R- San Diego, called for a complete review of California laws intended to monitor known offenders.

Fletcher said California law requires sex offenders to register where they live, but not where they go. Police in the nearby towns of Escondido and Rancho Bernardo are working to determine if in Gardner's routine travels between his residence and his mother's home he attempted to abduct girls along the way.

I'm really concerned where these sex predators go because where you live is one thing, but where you go is another matter. If you're a certain category of sex offender you can't go where kids congregate. You can't go to parks, you can't go to bus stops, you can go to schools," Fletcher said.

"We're looking at the possibility of using technology. Using a GPS device that's a passive device, but the minute you cross into one of these safe zones it immediately pings a 911 call and you've committed a crime by violating it," he said.

King's body was found in a shallow grave near Lake Hodges on March 2, ending a week-long search for the straight-A student who disappeared Feb. 25 during an afterschool run at a park.

Gardner, who served five years in prison after admitting to molesting a 13-yeard-old girl in 2000, was arrested March 1 after his DNA was found on clothes belonging to King found in the area where she vanished.

In the days following his arrest and arraignment, police have since linked him to one other attack in the same park and believe he may be connected to the death of Amber DuBois, 14, who disappeared in February 2009 and whose skeletal remains were discover over this past weekend.

Chelsea King's Parent Want to Change Sex Offender Laws
"We will work with law enforcement, district attorneys, crime victims groups, legislators, and others to evaluate the current system and identify problems, shortcomings, and gaps," Fletcher said of his proposed overhaul of sex offender laws.

King's parents said they would work with the assemblyman to "make the kind of changes that will save precious young lives like hers."

"We do not yet know when or how those efforts will take shape, but our commitment to carry her light forward is steadfast. We have decided to collaborate with Assemblyman Fletcher on these yet undefined initiatives," her parents Brent and Kelly King said in a statement.

On Tuesday it was revealed that the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation last year destroyed records pertaining to Gardner's 2005 to 2008 parole as part of a routine annual documents dump.

The Associated Press and Fletcher's office both requested the documents, prompting the department to reveal that they had been destroyed.

Upon learning of the department's policy, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger ordered all parole records for convicted sex offenders held indefinitely.

While those records were destroyed, the San Diego County Superior Court Tuesday released a copy of Gardner's probation report from 2000 in which a court psychiatrist described the then 21-year-old as "simply a bad guy who is inordinately interested in young girls."

Dr. Matthew Carroll said Gardner's "predilection toward younger girls is a problem. He manifests significant predatory traits and is a danger to the community," the officer wrote.

Gardner accepted a plea deal in 2000 after being charged with committing lewd and lascivious acts against a 13-year-old neighbor he picked up on her way to school. Though he faced a 15-year maximum sentence Gardner was sentenced to six years, of which he served five, on the recommendation of a probation officer.

Recommendation to Give John Gardner Maximum Sentence Ignored
Despite a recommendation for the maximum sentence by Carroll, the probation officer recommended a lighter sentence given he had no prior record, according to the documents reviewed by the Associated Press. The judge accepted the officer's recommendation.

Carroll will not speak about the case, but last week his colleague Dr. Mark Kalish told ABC News Carroll was angry that the court did not accept his recommendations.

"Dr. Carroll told the court that [Gardner] showed no insight and expressed no responsibility and that he is a danger. You can't make a stronger statement than that," said Kalish

"No one can predict what someone will do 10 years down the road, but had this guy been prosecuted to the full extent he could have been looking at 30 years in prison and this crime would never have happened," he said.
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/chelseas-law-track-sex-offenders-gps/story?id=10063652

[Tracygirl]

1 strike and their out. I would be willing to pay the extra taxes it would take too keep them locked up for life.

[Tracygirl]

Good post Northern, I didn't see it before.
What I find interesting is how our postings can make a crazy person act out yet their behavior couldn't possibly lead to do that. Can't have it both ways. Plus I would be willing to bet a bag full of peanuts Hashing has had it's problems with mainstream society before, that this is not the first time.

[no rose colored glasses]

Thanks Nut for that article.  I want to make sure that I'm understanding correctly, the worldwide Hashing group is different from the one that JAG's mom is in, an off shoot if you will. Am I correct? If I'm correct then I don't see what it matters what this group does, they have been around doing this since 1938, it seems stupid too me, but I guess for a lot of people it isn't. My concern is the group his mom is involved in, and his being around people that probably didn't know that he was a RSO.

[Missiontoconvict]

Good posts Gypsy and Northern Rose.

It seems rather odd that they are taking down websites all over just because of us little ol monkeys.  Wow, we are much more influential than I thought if hashing sites are taking down pictures etc....

For some reason I don't think it is because they are afraid of some sluethers - I think they may be a little concerned about this concept being delved into a bit further especially as it relates to JAG.  I think they hide behind the running and trails concept and it is what goes on behind the scenes that has them a bit nervous. 

I can tell you this and that is if my employer ever stumbled across a photo on the net of naked men and women standing around a campfire and I were one of them I would lose my job - As a representative of the company I work for that would not be tolerated. 

I am getting the sense that they are misconstruing our efforts here - we don't care about THEM we care about what connection, if any, might there be to JAG and those who have gone missing/murdered - could it be he used these locations to bury his victims?  Also you can't tell me it isn't quizzing that JAG who is a RSO was exposed to this type of behavior through his mother. 

I'm so done listening to the hashers defend what they do - they may run and do the trails, get close to nature, whatever - I understand that.....it is when I see what I saw after that that makes me very reluctant to believe that as doctors, lawyers, nurses, police and whoever else they might be... are just getting together for a run and a few drinks.  I didn't come down in yesterday's rain. 

[bananas]

Gypsy I agree with what you said so I will just say ditto.
Edward sometimes when doing research we come along things which are going to upset people, that is what is happening. It can't stop us.

I agree with Gypsy and Traceygirl as well.

[Gypsy DD]

I wonder how many other attempts, rapes and or murders will be attributed to him before this investigation is complete.  I don't think he just became active again in the past year..I think he was probably active from the time he got out of jail.

[piwannaberookie]

very brave person to write that informative letter for Scared Monkeys. I don't think anyone in here hates hashers or is out there to seek vigilante justice against them. I think we all want to know if John Gardner was involved in the hashing...we're just researching information about Gardner and his involvement in the HH. If a hasher gets hurt, I am sorry, I didn't provoke anyone to do anything to cause harm to one of them, I don't know a hasher, nor have I participated a hash. I know I posted some stuff in here that points blame to this person and that person, but if you would like to know, I am sorry if i appear offensive to hashing in my posts, if it's not one thing it's another I do. Nobody here is crazy I hope, by looking at pictures of hashers it's easy to judge them, but nobody in here is telling anyoone to go out and hurt someone or vandalize property. If that does happen I hope the person gets caught and is taught a lesson. I don't think anyone wants to make things worse than it already has become, it may look like we're picking on HH but, it's only because I think there is more to know... especially what motivated JAG commit the heinous crimes and if there are more victims. Nobody in here means any harm, hopefully a hasher will get my point... I do stuff like hashing all the time like running at midnight where I can't see anything. Hopefully no dogs, or psychos will come after me, so scared monkeys are also on the look out to for hashers that don't like what we have to say, so it all comes full circle to put it in this post I am writing maybe a hasher will see it, and realize we are not psycho stalkers.

[bananas]

I think if you want to be respected as a research web site, then you must have respect.

Other then that then we just turn into an over rated chat room.


That letter says it all.

jmho

And I say those who want my respect should earn it.  I have the right to my opinions.

[Northern Rose]

EXCLUSIVE: A MISSING LINK: A BLACK NISSAN SENTRA AND THE GIRLFRIEND OF ACCUSED KILLER JOHN GARDNER: NOT CONNECTING THE DOTS PRIOR TO THE MURDER OF CHELSEA KING

The Enterprise Report has learned exclusively that a black 2002 Nissan Sentra 4-door, driven by now indicted murder suspect and convicted sex offender John Albert Gardner and registered to a 'girlfriend' of Gardner may be a key link between a number of cases of alleged murder, attempted murder and other attempted abductions of young girls in both Riverside and San Diego County prior to the killing of 17-year old teenager Chelsea King last month.

TER has confirmed that the 2002 car in question is now in the custody of San Diego County Sheriff's crime lab and is being tested for evidence in the Chelsea King case, as well as other cases of missing or attempted abductions of young women that police believe may be linked to accused killer John Gardner.

TER has obtained a recent traffic citation that shows a crucial link between Gardner, a woman named Jariah Baker and addresses in both Riverside and San Diego County in early 2010 only weeks prior the murder of Chelsea King.

MORE....

http://theenterprisereport.typepad.com/news/2010/03/exclusive-sex-offender-john-gardner-chelsea-king-and-the-missing-link-a-black-car.html

[Tracygirl]

Good article Northern thank you for posting it. Bet the girlfriend is getting about a million emails and phone calls.