Lively Case Discussion #573 1/13 - 1/14/2007

[Carnut]

Just adding my 2 cents in on the homelesness.  Sorry if I missed somebody else mention it. But I know one problem, is homeless person can't get a job without an address and obviously can't get a home without a job here, so that adds another vicious cycle.  It's a catch 22.

Sorry, I don't buy that one either.

Post office boxes for address if continuing to live in flophouses.

If you get a job you can rent to buy.

[BTgirl]

Sorry I messed up Carnut's quote.  

I think we get the gist of it, your Highness.

OMG! I'm psychic and I can perceive Carnut bowing down before me.    

Ah, your psychic powers are off by just a little bit.

I am a redneck.

Carnut, Carnut, Carnut......when are ya gonna learn that the woman is always right?    

Night monkeys. Sweet dreams everyone.

[AZLady]

I fully expect the Skeeter's tapes to be the significant evidence in the case.  The FBI should be testify as their accuracy and the K2's will be sitting with lies all over their faces.

I have often wondered if the tapes that were released to other sites, the doctored tapes were released to try and get us or someone if they have it to publish the unedited real verision so the evidence would be unusable....

That sounds like an Aruban trick, but it won't work with the FBI and
American law enforcement.  They know how to preserve the chain of evidence.

[Carnut]

We're rapidly losing our middle class in the US.  It used to be that a man could make an honest living and support his family, buy his home, clothe his kids on a wage from a blue collar job.  The factories were the backbone of the middle class.  As the factories are now being closed and the economy is moving to an information society, we are seeing so many of the middle class caught in the middle.  I feel sorry for them as they are afraid to change, but change is the only way they can make a living.

Sorry, I do disagree with that statement.

If we are losing any middle class it's because they are moving up to upper class.

Carnut, I see many, many people who are trying to make a living doing the work their fathers did--construction, mostly, and other similar jobs.  They can't make a living to support their families any more.  They claim it's because of the illegals taking their jobs for lower pay, but there is much more involved than just that.  The world has changed around them and they seem almost bewildered by it.  So many of them are trying to keep up with the old jobs, but they just get farther and farther behind.  It's not the same world it was 30 years ago.

I know a lot of folks whining and complaining, but I also see most all of them doing it from their SUV's parked in their two car driveways.

I've never seen so many folks who own motorhomes/travel trailers.

Now a days washers/dryers/computers are considered necessitie of life, they ain't.

[Dihannah1]

We're rapidly losing our middle class in the US.  It used to be that a man could make an honest living and support his family, buy his home, clothe his kids on a wage from a blue collar job.  The factories were the backbone of the middle class.  As the factories are now being closed and the economy is moving to an information society, we are seeing so many of the middle class caught in the middle.  I feel sorry for them as they are afraid to change, but change is the only way they can make a living.

I totally agree with you.  I'm in the IT field and my husband is blue collar.  He was layed off and out of work for awhile, he worked his butt off.  We slowly got so far behind and almost lost everything.  That was almost a year ago.  We both now make decent money, kids are grown, except for 19 yr at home and in school and we still are worse off than 3 -5 yrs. ago...    I have barely a penny to spend and can't offer my 19 yr old as much ast my 23 yr old.  Do you know how guilty we feel?

[AZLady]

I'm not sure what you mean about the FBI not being able to testify in a civil case.  If the FBI agents who were in Aruba were subpoenaed to testify as to what they observed, I would think they would have to testify.

[Tibrogargan]

We're rapidly losing our middle class in the US.  It used to be that a man could make an honest living and support his family, buy his home, clothe his kids on a wage from a blue collar job.  The factories were the backbone of the middle class.  As the factories are now being closed and the economy is moving to an information society, we are seeing so many of the middle class caught in the middle.  I feel sorry for them as they are afraid to change, but change is the only way they can make a living.

Middle Class has become a misnomer these days and it is becoming more a two class have and have-not society.  Blue collar/tradesmen workers now get paid more than all but the top execs.  Ordinary family man has to struggle to keep things going and housing prices have skyrocketed so putting home ownership out of most young couples range.

[LilPuma]

Night everyone.

[Carnut]

There's a whole lotta folks rich enough to keep all those fast food resturants, high dollar coffee vendors and quik trips on everycorner.

Someone has the expendible funds to support those places.

Actually the only real businesses that have trouble getting along are the ones that tend to cater to the lower classes/poor folks due to lack of a market.

[Dihannah1]

Just adding my 2 cents in on the homelesness.  Sorry if I missed somebody else mention it. But I know one problem, is homeless person can't get a job without an address and obviously can't get a home without a job here, so that adds another vicious cycle.  It's a catch 22.

Sorry, I don't buy that one either.

Not here, they don't accept PO boxes.  I've done some volunteer work for the homeless.  I used to feel the same way you did, but it really isn't that easy for some.   Yes there are those who are just flat out lazy and don't try.  But so many fall through the cracks.

Post office boxes for address if continuing to live in flophouses.

If you get a job you can rent to buy.

[mrs. red]

Night everyone.

good nite Puma!!  I quoted you earlier btw....

I am joining you...

good nite Monkeys...

Keep the faith!!

[AZLady]

Yes, our standard of living has changed.  Cars, computers, and electronic gadgets have become part of our lifestyles now.  However, it's all relative.   I know the blue collar worker could make a living and provide his family a comfortable standard of living 30 years ago.  Life has changed now.  It seems that a high school education is not going to provide the lifestyle that middle America wants anymore.  Not everyone can go to college, but we need to provide more training and skills-based education for the new technology based society we are building.  There are jobs there--but you can't get them without the training.  It's a time of transition, and it's tough to tell a 40 year old blue collar worker that he needs to retrain and change his life work.  However, that's the way it is.

[cubbeegirl]

Did I miss much on the Line Up??

[Carnut]

We're rapidly losing our middle class in the US.  It used to be that a man could make an honest living and support his family, buy his home, clothe his kids on a wage from a blue collar job.  The factories were the backbone of the middle class.  As the factories are now being closed and the economy is moving to an information society, we are seeing so many of the middle class caught in the middle.  I feel sorry for them as they are afraid to change, but change is the only way they can make a living.

I totally agree with you.  I'm in the IT field and my husband is blue collar.  He was layed off and out of work for awhile, he worked his butt off.  We slowly got so far behind and almost lost everything.  That was almost a year ago.  We both now make decent money, kids are grown, except for 19 yr at home and in school and we still are worse off than 3 -5 yrs. ago...    I have barely a penny to spend and can't offer my 19 yr old as much ast my 23 yr old.  Do you know how guilty we feel?

That's where the perception thing comes in, if you are giving to a 19 yr old or a 23 yr old, you are doing well, in my day 19yr olds would be out living on their own or paying rent at home.

Anyone who can assist or payfor a childs college education is doing very well in my book.

[Dihannah1]

It's pretty sad they are just now trying to pass a minimum wage to $7.15hr after 10 yrs.  I know MY med. insurance alone has quadrupled in that amount of time, let alone gas, utilites, food etc....  How is somebody supposed to live on $5.75 hr?

[robots]

i make a good living

but it takes me having 3 jobs

         

[Carnut]

Just adding my 2 cents in on the homelesness.  Sorry if I missed somebody else mention it. But I know one problem, is homeless person can't get a job without an address and obviously can't get a home without a job here, so that adds another vicious cycle.  It's a catch 22.

Sorry, I don't buy that one either.

Not here, they don't accept PO boxes.  I've done some volunteer work for the homeless.  I used to feel the same way you did, but it really isn't that easy for some.   Yes there are those who are just flat out lazy and don't try.  But so many fall through the cracks.

Post office boxes for address if continuing to live in flophouses.

If you get a job you can rent to buy.

Yes, folk can always come up with excuses. But since I was raised poor  by a single sometimes working mother, I have very little empathy for most folks whining about being poor.

[Dihannah1]

We're rapidly losing our middle class in the US.  It used to be that a man could make an honest living and support his family, buy his home, clothe his kids on a wage from a blue collar job.  The factories were the backbone of the middle class.  As the factories are now being closed and the economy is moving to an information society, we are seeing so many of the middle class caught in the middle.  I feel sorry for them as they are afraid to change, but change is the only way they can make a living.

I totally agree with you.  I'm in the IT field and my husband is blue collar.  He was layed off and out of work for awhile, he worked his butt off.  We slowly got so far behind and almost lost everything.  That was almost a year ago.  We both now make decent money, kids are grown, except for 19 yr at home and in school and we still are worse off than 3 -5 yrs. ago...    I have barely a penny to spend and can't offer my 19 yr old as much ast my 23 yr old.  Do you know how guilty we feel?

That's where the perception thing comes in, if you are giving to a 19 yr old or a 23 yr old, you are doing well, in my day 19yr olds would be out living on their own or paying rent at home.

Anyone who can assist or payfor a childs college education is doing very well in my book.

Yes, but when we were kids, College degrees weren't as necessary.  I was proud to recieve my associate degree back then.  Now you almost have a BA or MBA to get a decent job.  I can't afford college for both my kids...  I just got my BA, because I was told after 17 yrs on the same job, I was going nowhere until I got it.

[AZLady]

You can't live on $5.75 an hour or even $7.15 an hour.  Those are supposed to be entry level jobs.  Unfortunately, people don't move past those jobs.

[Carnut]

It's pretty sad they are just now trying to pass a minimum wage to $7.15hr after 10 yrs.  I know MY med. insurance alone has quadrupled in that amount of time, let alone gas, utilites, food etc....  How is somebody supposed to live on $5.75 hr?

Dunno, I once survived on $90/mo.

Lived quite well on $1.50hr in my day.