Lively Case Discussion #574 1/15 - 1/17/2007

[Florida]

Nite, LaLa.............

[Lala'sMom]

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak
Many pioneers have settled with the tribe

[Tibrogargan]

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
Mary never heard the buoy toll
ask the men who play dice and “roll”

To me this riddle is speaking of Natalee.  It is used in the context that Mary didn't know what was happening to her because either she was unconscious or dead at the time.  Then in the next line it refers to the men who play dice and roll.  

I agree here.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED

I still think this is a reference to Natalee, but I could be wrong.  To me it's saying that Mary entered the Maze (we have debated the definition of Maze often) and something happened to her.

Mary who was not a virgin :  GUIDO :  He left work early and could have gone to work as croupier at secret casino room or his home as soon as he and Joran and Paulus set Natalee up as a target and knew she was on her way in the Kalpoes abduct-a-car.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:41 pm
Mary ROLLED through the Maze
There is more than one house of music
the Lamb is a Scapegoat
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:42 pm
The Lamb returned to the fold
Mary Rolled
And the lions played

Mary Rolled : Could mean she was passed around from one to another ?
Better way of expressing what I mean was Mary was rolled around.
We all know what the lions played at.

This is the part of the riddle that most speculate that Joran actually left Natalee at another location.  Could have been Guido's place as Robots thinks.  Could have been at the Lion's Den.  We are still guessing about this one.

Yes I think Joran left Natalee there (wherever it was) and was paid off hence the cash Paulus had to bank from his non existent winnings.
Guido's place could be Lions Den - lives with father only so no mother to keep an eye on things.  Like Anita was absent so they had a free rein.

Have to go out shortly but will ponder some more and will check back in about an hour.

[Lala'sMom]

Nite, LaLa.............

But I'm not sleepy yet?  Why am I going to bed?  

[BTgirl]

LaLa:  Recently I came across a tourist's photo...

It showed a large buoy in the water near the Radisson & Wyndham....
Maybe near that Palm? pier. I'll look tomorrow.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
Mary never heard the buoy toll
ask the men who play dice and “roll”

Remember that photo of the "Pair a Dice" boat from Aruba?
Wonder where it was docked...Maybe Hotshot would know.

We studied that "bouy" about a year ago, I have the photos somewhere and will find them.  I think it's not a bouy but a platform.

I think you're right, Klaas. Some kind of diving platform?

[IBE]

Dear Monkey Friends: Keep up the Good Work

I have just posted in the Lounge some questions about a Marine friend where I live dying, rumored strangled and some threats to me.

Hoping you have the time to look and respond for you have insights that I don't have.

Lala I have a little different view on some of Shango... am here to tango![/b]

[Lala'sMom]

Dear Monkey Friends: Keep up the Good Work

I have just posted in the Lounge some questions about a Marine friend where I live dying, rumored strangled and some threats to me.

Hoping you have the time to look and respond for you have insights that I don't have.

Lala I have a little different view on some of Shango... am here to tango![/b]

I know.    I have been waiting for you.

[BTgirl]

Nite, LaLa.............

But I'm not sleepy yet?  Why am I going to bed?  

Maybe you're just being sent to your room for a time out.  

[Sam]

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating
afraid to walk through the maze
why don’t the arawaks ambush the lions?
The cowboys don’t know.
DirtyHand knows, but is afraid of the Arawak Nation
The gods are talking

This has to be a reference to Natalee.  Since Shango is alluding to the underbelly of Aruba with it's porn and gambling.  The Dirty Hand reference does claim that he's afraid of the Arawak Nation.  It is a proper noun here.  Any thoughts?  Why would either van der Straaten or Rudy Croes be afraid of the Arawaks?

Rudy Croes is an Arawak

So do that leave van der Straaten?

Why could Dirty hand not be one of the casino owners? I know alot of them are Americans but also know Casino operators have long been known to have Mafia ties. But when you are in a foreign country your Mafia ties may not have as much importance.

[klaasend]

LaLa:  Recently I came across a tourist's photo...

It showed a large buoy in the water near the Radisson & Wyndham....
Maybe near that Palm? pier. I'll look tomorrow.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
Mary never heard the buoy toll
ask the men who play dice and “roll”

Remember that photo of the "Pair a Dice" boat from Aruba?
Wonder where it was docked...Maybe Hotshot would know.

"There is a boat docked between the Holiday Inn and the Marriott. It is called the Pair of Dice."

[Tibrogargan]

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating
afraid to walk through the maze
why don’t the arawaks ambush the lions?
The cowboys don’t know.
DirtyHand knows, but is afraid of the Arawak Nation
The gods are talking

This has to be a reference to Natalee.  Since Shango is alluding to the underbelly of Aruba with it's porn and gambling.  The Dirty Hand reference does claim that he's afraid of the Arawak Nation.  It is a proper noun here.  Any thoughts?  Why would either van der Straaten or Rudy Croes be afraid of the Arawaks?

Messed up my last reply as some comments through your posting then last comment on bottom in plain text.
Mary played with lions - more like a mouse plays with a cat.
Joran is a big woos and ran alright.
Arawaks (Arubans) leave lions alone as they are in all the powerful positions on the island and control the Arawaks financially.
Van Der S is D/H and is afraid of being identified and thus lose face and position and any future prospects.

[SunFreak2]

Paulus is Dirty Hand.  He wrote the government contracts for Aruba. He would know all the movers and shakers in Aruba.  Paulus could walk in all houses.  He isn't afraid of the Police.  He would be afraid of the Arubans (Arowak Nation) if the corruption & his roll in it was exposed.

[IBE]

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:41 pm
Mary ROLLED through the Maze
 There is more than one house of music
Me: (casinos or hotels or private homes?)
 the Lamb is a Scapegoat

OK.. my current take on this: Joran is the Scapegoat for his father and/or  other elders  
 

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:42 pm
The Lamb returned to the fold
 Mary Rolled
 And the lions played

If the rumor is true there were elders at the Sloot home the night "something bad happened" for a poker party

Joran give her off, returned to his apt. and others took advantage of her in the home... elders there===big reason for coverup
Or it was at the party home of Lorenzo the only one or one of them?

[Tibrogargan]

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:19 pm
There are many DirtyHands among the Arawak, and so it has been for centuries…
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:28 pm
All preceding stated is verifiable
DirtyHand is well known
there will be a sacrifice
the gods have been talking
the fires have been lit
the cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot
that is why they are preparing the sacrifice
All fear DirtyHand
Arawaks and babylon
I must go feed the messengers

Clearly this particular Dirty Hand is someone in power.  Does anyone else think what I think or am I just hanging here on a limb?  

Van Der S had plenty of power and would not want to lose any of it.
Sacrifice is supposed to be Joran or Kalpoes???
Cowboys did return without any answers.
Preparing sacrifice : setting someone up to appease the cowboys.  May have even been the two security guards.

[IBE]

Thanks Lala I haven't had someone "wait for me" in a long time

With what we learn in bits and pieces, I keep rereading Shango with new eyes and thought.

Bottom line... why the big coverup? unless someone lied to those that helped at first and found out later they were in too deep and had to keep the cover up going

or the elders were there when something bad happened in the apt? or?

[Lala'sMom]

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:41 pm
Mary ROLLED through the Maze
 There is more than one house of music
Me: (casinos or hotels or private homes?)
 the Lamb is a Scapegoat

OK.. my current take on this: Joran is the Scapegoat for his father and/or  other elders  
 

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:42 pm
The Lamb returned to the fold
 Mary Rolled
 And the lions played

If the rumor is true there were elders at the Sloot home the night "something bad happened" for a poker party

Joran give her off, returned to his apt. and others took advantage of her in the home... elders there===big reason for coverup
Or it was at the party home of Lorenzo the only one or one of them?

Guess what?  I don't disagree with any of this. I think you could be right on.

[Lala'sMom]

Paulus is Dirty Hand.  He wrote the government contracts for Aruba. He would know all the movers and shakers in Aruba.  Paulus could walk in all houses.  He isn't afraid of the Police.  He would be afraid of the Arubans (Arowak Nation) if the corruption & his roll in it was exposed.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
The elder agreed to speak, but he he loves the boy too much. The knows the passages of the palace too well. So the Babylonians must make sure the check mate is iron-clad.
Something rotten from The Hague will have to make the third act play out.

The elder is PVDS.  I never thought about him being Dirty Hand.  I will have to think on that one.  Just doesn't fit the profile to me.

[SunFreak2]

OK.. my current take on this: Joran is the Scapegoat for his father and/or  other elders

What a lowlife Paulus is, if he let his son take the rap for him or one of his pig friends.

[Carnut]

OK.. my current take on this: Joran is the Scapegoat for his father and/or  other elders

What a lowlife Paulus is, if he let his son take the rap for him or one of his pig friends.

Paulus IS a lowlife, but he just covering for JVDS.

[Lala'sMom]

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation

Now, my dear friend Eleye thought this was MJ.  Since he's been released as a suspect could this be AJ instead?  Not sure about that one, just throwing it out there for thought.

Back to Guido.  Did he work only at the HI casino?  We know he played in the others because it's in some of the statements?  This Guido theory is very intriguing to me.  I still fail to see how exposing Guido as Dirty Hand would bring the houses down.  Maybe someone could enlighten me?