Lively Case Discussion #574 1/15 - 1/17/2007

[klaasend]

I don't get many sheep around here,I have to south about 30 miles and the dogs are so mean,but I am smarter.The house of koen's is closed to the painted rocks,I notice.hmm  I am just thinking.Please don't mention Black Russians again,bad experience in my car with a woman and oyersters,point being,violent vomiting gets things in alot of places.Just a random thought.CAT

Yes Cat, and also not far from Arashi Beach.  Remember Dave Holloway was told someone saw Koen's boat being launched that night?

[nonesuche]

A couple of quick points:

1. Back to the chemistry discussion... The bottom line is that the Dutch Forensic Institute came back with a finding that there was residue of chocolate and cleaning fluid found in the car. This is a backhanded way of saying that evidence was found which SOUNDS innocuous, but itin reality means that they found EXACTLY the chemical traces which should be expected if Natalee got violently sick in the car from a drug reaction. They are sugar-coating it and making it sound like it's nothing, when it could be VERY significant. They also can use that finding as a vehicle to explain away by claiming that Deepak just tried to wipe up smeared chocolate.

Which I HIGHLY doubt.

2. Nowadays with the widespread use of impact wrenches (compressed air) to change tires, I don't see how ANY female can ever expect to take the lugs off a car and change a wheel. These impact wrenches are routinely set to tighten the lugs WAAAAYYYY tighter than necessary. That's because the mechanics are so afraid of being sued. They are so scared someone might lose a wheel and sue them that they put the lugs on overtight and could care less about the NEXT person who has to take the tire off. My brother just this past Saturday BROKE a lug wrench while trying to change a tire... the wrench socket literally wrung off the handle because of the excessive torque of the lug. He had to call AAA to get going again because the tire tool broke. I see people all the time jumping on the cross handle of a lug wrench because they can't remove the lugs with arm strength.

Plus... if you can change your OWN tire... you don't need to spend $$$ on road service. The road service people know that, too, so it's in their interest to tighten those babies on so you HAVE to call them.  

SB-
I am not a scientist but I do find merit in your perspective regarding the NFI. I guess we shall see what JKelly and DeVries can strong-arm in terms of truth from this dutch team eventually.

FYI about tires, we got new tires a few years back, they didn't tighten the lugs all the way. Son was turning into school parking lot and the darn tire came off the wheel. It was a very hot day and he and a friend struggled in the heat with the jack which only sunk into the asphalt.

kid was too afraid to call mom and tell me he'd broken the wheel   so he suffered for hours until he finally called and I told him no way was a wheel supposed to come off like that and he had done nothing wrong  

I'd forgotten that story, thanks for reminding me he did suffer a little bit  

[nonesuche]

I don't get many sheep around here,I have to south about 30 miles and the dogs are so mean,but I am smarter.The house of koen's is closed to the painted rocks,I notice.hmm  I am just thinking.Please don't mention Black Russians again,bad experience in my car with a woman and oyersters,point being,violent vomiting gets things in alot of places.Just a random thought.CAT

Yes Cat, and also not far from Arashi Beach.  Remember Dave Holloway was told someone saw Koen's boat being launched that night?

the boat that was sold ?   they cover any and all traces with absolutely no resistance from ALE

we also need to remember regardless of Janssen telling JKelly she wanted to stay on the case, it was SHE who didn't interview Koen, her decision  

[crazybabyborg]

Cat, we're like 2 ships passing in the night!  

So, are you here now?

[Cat]

i am here.cat

[Jacqueline]

i am here.cat

What happened to your St Patty's Day avi...I liked it..

None if you are out there still...big hugs...

[Cat]

Just a stupid thought,koen's involment.I also remember Kimberly Guilfoyle taking one look at the area where j said he left and saying no way.Cat

[crazybabyborg]

I caught the repeat of Greta, and had the distinct impression that JQK was trying very hard to not rock the boat in Aruba: just trying to keep a line of communication open. I think that would be very useful if JQK ever intends to entertain the possibility of suing ALE. That case keeps getting bigger and bigger every day and does so by knowing what they are not doing!

[crazybabyborg]

Just a stupid thought,koen's involment.I also remember Kimberly Guilfoyle taking one look at the area where j said he left and saying no way.Cat

I heard your request last night, and responded, but not quick enough! Here, Cat.


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/smjazzcatStPat-1.gif

It's a lil' pot of gold for a tip cup.  

[Carnut]

I caught the repeat of Greta, and had the distinct impression that JQK was trying very hard to not rock the boat in Aruba: just trying to keep a line of communication open. I think that would be very useful if JQK ever intends to entertain the possibility of suing ALE. That case keeps getting bigger and bigger every day and does so by knowing what they are not doing!

Yep.

[crazybabyborg]

i am here.cat

What happened to your St Patty's Day avi...I liked it..

None if you are out there still...big hugs...

Jac, you have a Valentine's avi in the Lounge if you want it.

[crazybabyborg]

i am here.cat

What happened to your St Patty's Day avi...I liked it..

None if you are out there still...big hugs...

Jac, you have a Valentine's avi in the Lounge if you want it.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/jacqueline.gif

[Cat]

When Irish cats are smiling,the mici must hide ,for when irish cats are smiling,I can't make up more.I like it,CBB.You are a genius.Meow,Cat

[Cat]

When do you think NAH's body was taken by boat?Was the original boat launcg to hide clothes,etc.Cat

[Jacqueline]

i am here.cat

What happened to your St Patty's Day avi...I liked it..

None if you are out there still...big hugs...

Jac, you have a Valentine's avi in the Lounge if you want it.

I do?  Wow thanks....Let me go get it....

[Jacqueline]

i am here.cat

What happened to your St Patty's Day avi...I liked it..

None if you are out there still...big hugs...

Jac, you have a Valentine's avi in the Lounge if you want it.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/jacqueline.gif

OH MY GOD, I LOVE IT....Thank you sooooooooooooo much.

[crazybabyborg]

You can get it right here, Jac. Look up to my last post

[crazybabyborg]

LOL! It's been there for quite a while, but I'm glad you like it!  

[ldstlou]

Robots, you're killing me.   The best humor is always when you can relate to it, and I can!

From somebody without a chemistry background, a question? If chocolate and possible cleaning solvent ingredient were found in the car, and if Nat was the source, through vomit, of those elements in Deepak's car, wouldn't elements of the vomit also be there?

I'm not trying to make a point, it's an honest question that I don't have a predisposed answer to.

I think that that is what is being questioned.  Were some of the chemicals found actually "vomit" contents??

IIRC , When testing for unknown substances, you are really testing for the presence of certain chemicals (not really for products, like chocolate).  So if something tests high in "phenols" or whatever chemical is in chocolate, one might conclude that chocolate was there.  I think what SunFreak was saying, is that in the making of GHB (not the ingestion or digestion of the drug), a chemical reaction is formed.  The cleaning fluid type chemicals are FOREVER changed and do not seperate back out to test as the original chemicals (IIRC that is the difference between a solution and a true chemical reaction). I guess the question would be, what does GHB chemically test as once it is made.  I don't think there would be enough of the actual chemical (since only a small amount is added to a drink), to actually isolate it in a lab.
This must be as clear as mud...

ok guys...still haven't left yet!! lol
found some articles on gbl.
seems as though it would give a false positive, is used IN cleaning agents but also said it is taken as a drug like ghb...could it have just been gbl that was spilled on the seat? gbl they used to spike drinks and the chocolate was just an old chocolate stain?

[Cat]

Thank you,again.A smile a day keeps mortica away.cat I have to go now.