Obama's quiet years in N.Y.C.

[nonesuche]

pdh3-

I didn't mean to sound as if I am lecturing, I guess I have strong opinions regarding politics as many seem to....

I agree with all you've written in your last post and I didn't mean to imply there isn't corruptive influences in all measure of high-level politics. If we examine just the lobbyist and/or campaign war chest practices and relationships alone, that could keep us busy without ever going near foreign policy or the current war's politics.

I do however feel this current war is larger and more complex than even GWB ever imagined it could be. You can't know what you've stepped into until you are there, all the risk management, strategy, and planning could not have prepared our leadership for a straight path in this. I think at best our expectations should have realistically been throughout that we should adapt with agility, then keep reformatting the strategy.

IMO Obama is seizing a moment here, one when there is little black-american representation in the Senate creating a sense of inequity with many voters, and using religious fervor as fuel for his agenda. I see smoke so I'm looking for the fire but then I think many are. Today the national news reported the latest Democratic polls report Hillary in first place currently, Obama in second, and Edwards in third.

Hillary is hosting a Q & A at her campaign website tonight, I plan to go pose a question or two and see what comes back  

[pdh3]

None - I did not feel lectured at all. I appreciate your input. Truly, I do. Due to your experience with Rick, I think you have a unique perspective on Iraq, and I am paying attention.  
A political forum is a tricky place for a discussion, because feelings run so strongly among posters. But I have not found you personally being condescending to anyone.
When I think about what the next President will face, I wonder why anyone would want to be elected, but Power is also blinding. I just hope the American people get it right this time.

[Tylergal]

A wolf in sheep's clothing with access to the FBI, NSA, and all the intelligence agencies could proclaim victory very quickly.  If this man was not a poseur for Musims, he would be beheaded by his Muslim brothers quickly for claiming the name of Obama and Hussein which are Muslim names for apostocy.  You will get the theocrat you vote for.  Have a good day.  The guillotines and ovens are being readied while we debate. No longer worth my while.  The likes of which cow-towed to Hitler will do the same with Obama.

[mrs. red]

I am voting for Gulliani should he make it that far..... other than abortion, which I disagree with him on, I agree with him - and I think he gets it where terrorism is concerned.

[Anna]

Why at this particular time with the Muslim world declaring The Third Great Jihad in full force would it be expedient and best for this country to have not only a Socialist but a Socialist and a Muslim in the White House?

The timing is just too suspect.  What qualifications does Obama have?  Not one bill bears his name and it is very difficult to find texts of his speeches that have not been removed from the internet for some reason.

Hillary the Socialist will be enough of an impediment for this country to overcome without adding the closet Muslim of Obama to the mix.  Together, this poor country won't stand a chance.

Yes, by all means brush up on the Misery Index and what it means.  Under Carter, banks were charging double digit int erst as prime rate for one thing, stifling all industry and financial growth.  

It is just asking too much for the American public to be expected to place their faith in a person who bears a Muslim name until this day and is far outside the mainstream religions as we know them.  A negative perception alone can bring down this thriving economy and I have no doubt that a Muslim in the WH would do just that.  Add to it the increased taxes the DNC always brings and I see nothing but hard times ahead for this country.

And this is before we even start dealing with the terrorist Global Jihad which will certainly be emboldened by the current surrender monkey mentality that has overtaken both branches of congress.

JMO but I am entitled to have one even if it is not in keeping with the fallacy of leadership where none exists.

.

[pdh3]

I am voting for Gulliani should he make it that far..... other than abortion, which I disagree with him on, I agree with him - and I think he gets it where terrorism is concerned.

I like Rudy Gulliani too, although I'm not thrilled with the fact that he was less than honorable in his first marriage. But no candidate is perfect, and he has lots of successful experience. He also has guts. If we had to vote tomorrow, he'd be my man too. I hope he makes it. He'd be good for the US because most people admire him for rising to the challenge after 9/11.

[nonesuche]

pdh3-

I agree about Guilliani and he has significant experience and track record. I don't like his personal past either but I've decided the latest report that more adult american women are unmarried than married for the first time in our history, is a reflection upon the impact even our leaders have had upon the institution of marriage. Just look at the Clintons? It would be different if Bill's proclivities had emerged only once with Jennifer Flowers, but no he's a serial tomcat and Hillary seems just AOK with it. It's a good thing some politicians aren't elected with consideration for how they manage their personal relationships.

I want a President with the capability to influence and gather support too within their own party so we can get legislation enacted timely, not by strong-arming but with leadership and vision. Rudy may be the only candidate in this race capable of that currently.

[snoopy]

I sure hope I did this right.  If not please forgive.

Columnist Says Barack Obama 'Lied To The American People;'
Asks Publisher to Withdraw Obama's Book
Tuesday August 10, 9:22 pm ET


NEW YORK, Aug. 10 /PRNewswire/ -- Out2.com's independent contrarian columnist, Andy Martin, will publish a column and hold simultaneous news conferences in New York and London on Wednesday, August 11th to disclose he believes Barack Obama is a political fraud who "lied to the American people." Martin has asked Crown Books to stop sales of Obama's book because of its fraudulent content. Martin says Obama may be a threat to the Jewish community.

NEWS CONFERENCE DETAILS:


New York:
Time/date: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 11:00 A.M.
Location: Northeast Corner of Fifth Avenue and 65th
Street (Temple Emanu-El)



London:
Time/date: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:00 P.M.
Location: 2 Dryden Mansions, Queens Club Gardens London W14



"I feel sad having to expose Barack Obama," says Martin, "but the man is a complete fraud. The truth is going to surprise, and disappoint, and outrage many people who were drawn to him. He has lied to the American people, and he has sought to misrepresent his own heritage.


"Obama's life story is vastly different from the one he portrays. My point: if he will lie about his mother and father, what else is he lying about? Can we expect 'bimbo eruptions?'



"Fiction: Obama stated in his Convention speech: 'My father ... grew up herding goats.' The 'goat herder' claim has been repeated endlessly. It is a lie. Fact: Obama's grandfather, Hussein Onyango Obama was a prominent and wealthy farmer. His son, Obama's father, was a child of privilege, not privation. He was an outstanding student, not a herdsman.



"Fiction: Obama was given an 'African' name. Fact: Obama is a Muslim who has concealed his religion. I am a strong supporter of the Muslim community, and I believe Muslims have been scapegoated. Obama has a great opportunity to be forthright. Instead, he has treated his Muslim heritage as a dark secret. His grandfather was named 'Hussein.' That is an Arabic-Muslim, not African, name. Hussein was a devout Muslim and named his son, Barack Senior, 'Baraka.' Baraka is an Arabic word meaning 'blessed.' Baraka comes out of the Koran and Arabic, not Africa.



"Barack Senior was also a devoted Muslim, and also chose a Muslim name for his son, our own Barack Obama, Junior. Again, his name was an Arabic and Koranic.



Obama has spent a lifetime running from his family heritage and religious heritage. Would his father have given his son a Koranic name if the father was not a devout Muslim? Obama's stepfather was also a Muslim. Obama will be the first Muslim-heritage senator; he should be proud of that fact. There is nothing to be ashamed of in any of the three great Abrahamic religions.



"Fiction: Obama Senior was a harmless student 'immigrant' who came to the United States only to study. Fact: Obama was part of one of the most corrupt and violent organizations in Africa: the Kenyatta regime. Obama's father ran back to Kenya soon after the British left. It is likely Obama's father had Mau Mau sympathies or connections, or he would not have been welcomed into the murderous inner circle of rapists, murderers, and arsonists. I believe Obama's secret shame at his family history of rape, murder and arson is what actualizes him. Our research is not yet complete. We are seeking to examine British colonial records. Our investigation to date has drawn on information on three continents.



"And what about Obama's beloved Kenyan brothers and sisters? None of his family was invited to Boston to share his prominence. Are his relatives being kept in the closet? Where are they? More secrecy, more prevarication.



"It is time for Barack Obama to stop presenting a fantasy to the American people. We are forgiving and many would still support him. It may well be that his concealment is meant to endanger Israel. His Muslim religion would obviously raise serious questions in many Jewish circles where Obama now enjoys support," Martin states.



"Our investigation is continuing. In he meantime, Crown Books should stop selling Obama's novelization of his life. We have asked Crown to do that. Obama is living a lie."



RESOURCES: Martin's columns at Out2.com (Govt & Politics); E-mail: andy@andymartin.com



Source: Andy Martin Worldwide Communications

[Dihannah1]

Very interesting Snoopy.  I'm curious since that was published in 2004, what Obama himself has said or will say about this.  I will have to look around on the web to see if I can find anything of a response or communication of this since it's writing.

Thanks for sharing!

[snoopy]

Very interesting Snoopy.  I'm curious since that was published in 2004, what Obama himself has said or will say about this.  I will have to look around on the web to see if I can find anything of a response or communication of this since it's writing.

Thanks for sharing!

You're welcome.  As soon as I find the real dirt I had on him I'll post it.  Several years ago when he came up on "my" radar I knew something wasn't right about him.  Had a lot of stuff on my old puuter when it crashed.

[snoopy]

Had some stuff on miss Hillary too. Yea I'll definately find that again.

[justinsmama]

so those of you that really love Obama.... what about he couldn't stay with his girlfriend because she is/was white???  I am sorry but that is a mindset that is worrisome not to mention the whole Muslim thing..... and do check out the church he attends.... it's not mainstream.....

There was little to no elaboration on that. Only that he had a racial identity "crisis" and this relationship was a casualty of it. The man's parents are from different races, cultures, religions, parts of the world, etc. I can only imagine the "identity" issues that would have invoked in me. I would like to know more about it, however. Was it a swing one way that swung back toward something he was comfortable with for himself? Choosing to marry within or without one's identified race, religion, etc. is a personal choice. I would not expect anyone to do as I have, nor welcome such an expectation of me from another.

[mrs. red]

so those of you that really love Obama.... what about he couldn't stay with his girlfriend because she is/was white???  I am sorry but that is a mindset that is worrisome not to mention the whole Muslim thing..... and do check out the church he attends.... it's not mainstream.....

There was little to no elaboration on that. Only that he had a racial identity "crisis" and this relationship was a casualty of it. The man's parents are from different races, cultures, religions, parts of the world, etc. I can only imagine the "identity" issues that would have invoked in me. I would like to know more about it, however. Was it a swing one way that swung back toward something he was comfortable with for himself? Choosing to marry within or without one's identified race, religion, etc. is a personal choice. I would not expect anyone to do as I have, nor welcome such an expectation of me from another.

IF you take that comment within the context of the speech he gave in Chicago which I had alluded to in the post, you would see where I am going with this....

if his family is of mixed race why would a white woman be an issue?  Three of my very, very closest friends are in bi-racial marriages... they do not express themselves or others in terms of race...  and they wouldn't break up due to color .... sorry, Justins, I don't buy it.

[pdh3]

I think it would be difficult, as a biracial person, to figure out your place in the world. If Barack Obama had been dating a black girl, she also would have been a victim of his confusion. I have a very good friend who is married to a white guy, and she is concerned about her children finding their way in society. Imagine what that would have been like for Barack in his youth when biracial children were uncommon, and he had few people to identify with, unlike the children of today. They can look to Halle Berry, Derek Jeter, Mariah Carey and Tiger Woods, to name a few.
Unless you are biracial, how can you judge his confusion so harshly?

[nonesuche]

pdh3-

I am not Mrs but will toss my two cents worth in here, I'd expect Barack capable of dealing with this for he's an educated man, a Harvard grad and former head of their law review? I mean really now, the ivy league has been very racially diverse for many years now as well as international in it's student base.

He's had the top flight education and within those realms he should have figured out how to deal gracefully with these issues. He actually IMO delivered a measure of reverse discrimination by labelling that former girlfriend in that manner, which was unfair to her as well.

[justinsmama]

Given that I do not have anywhere near the knowledge of this man that it would require to take this any further, I will write in more general terms...

I am white. My son's father is black. Justin is biracial. While neither his father nor I are "pure" African or European, we are each of sufficient ancestory that we readily "fit" into the once sharply divided racial categories. Individuals who are biracial do not have that benefit, particular those of Obama's generation. Justin is fortunate that there are many, many children of his generation who are biracial, and will benefit from the commonality shared by those who are biracial.

Young adults seek their identities. Obama had the additional issue of race identification. Whether he ultimately determined that a mate's race was of low or no importance to him or that it was of high priority, it is his choice. How many white politicians are okay with a mate for themselves who is of a different race? Many are not, I would assume. Does that mean that they are racist and discriminatory against those of another race? No. It means only that they marry an individual who is the same "color" as they.

[pdh3]

Thank you justins. That's what I was so awkwardly trying to say.

It goes deeper than a person's education, or exposure to other cultures. And I doubt any of us who are not biracial can even begin to understand what it must have been like for those children 30 or 40 years ago.

[nonesuche]

I don't disagree it was difficult to grow up as a biracial child for Obama, where we disagree is that this is a man who had the privilege to attend Harvard and also to head up their revered Harvard Law Review? Please think about that carefully, think about the realm that placed him in and yet he did drugs and alcohol to the extent he had issues ??? He was surrounded by the best of the best, yes that's a pressure but it's also a huge opportunity particularly for someone who was biracial at that time. Is this how he responds to pressure and opportunity?

Sorry, I can't agree there was any merit or GRACE in how he phrased his comments regarding his former white girlfriend. He has been exposed to venues far and away that should have prepared him for gracefully answering such questions.

I also repeat again, how many of you read the piece I posted from the Illinois Review? Talk about rascism, I am nauseaus everytime I read what that obviously literate Trinity christian wrote ???????? A staunch supporter as well as member of Obama's chosen church??????

It makes me wonder what on earth is said out loud behind closed doors there  

[justinsmama]

I don't understand why living a quiet life in NYC is considered a bad thing. Bush 43 might have been better off living a quiet life and forgoing the drinkin' and druggin' when he was young. At least give Obama credit for having the intelligence and willpower to get himself on the right path. He certainly didn't have Daddy's money to lean on. He is a self-made man. I can respect that.
If someone doesn't agree with Obama's politics, so be it. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm not sure I would agree with all of his ideas. Once he declares his candidacy, I will examine them closely too. But right now, everyone is in a tizzy about him prematurely. Hillary will give him a run for his money, and he may choose to wait.
Personally, I think he'd be a much better leader than Hillary, and would be more electable, but it may not be his turn yet. She has a lot of power in the Democratic party, and she will use it.

pdh3~ Read back per Nonesy's recommendation. Have to say that I agree with all you have stated here. I know little of the man, but suspect that will soon change. Should he toss his hat in the ring, then I will look closely at him, his views and his overall history.

Nonesy~ Honestly, I find nothing that was in what started this thread as anything that would alarm me. I agree with pdh3 that he seems to have worked hard to get where he is.

[justinsmama]

According to an ABC report at
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=2822061&page=1

Obama eventually became a devout Christian and member of Trinity United Church of Christ on 95th Street in the Southside of Chicago.

Obama's church's website?:

http://www.tucc.org/home.htm