Obama's quiet years in N.Y.C.

[nonesuche]

justins that is their website and I hope many will read it. My concern is equal to black discrimination as it it to white. I abhor discrimination of any kind and few people truly understand what rascism is, or how to repair that. Case in point, I was praised for raising the diversity level in a tech department of a very well-known financial services company from 4% to over 36% in two years time. I was asked often how we accomplished that when few tech workers are black-american. It wasn't hard, we simply looked at ALL resumes from ALL venues and built creative and performing teams.

So I don't think I am a garden variety southerner with rascist overtones in my life, I do feel I am color blind or try to be, strive to be.

In reading this list on their about us page of the 10 tenets of the Black Value System, where does that leave us who are not black-american? If this is the core of Obama's value system, where do I fit in there? My children, or mexican immigrants, or indian immigrants ?

http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

Please read it carefully too, for this is the rhetoric:

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

My church has members from many races and from all walks of life? I would feel the same way about having a president who felt only native americans deserve justice and support, not all americans?

or if only christians.........

or if only catholics..........

or if only muslims.........

the religion of this church is so biased toward reparations and I can't be convinced after reading that member's horrible letter which I posted, that this isn't a place full of anger as well.

there is no need for anger in our leadership's platform currently as President, but there is a great need for wisdom, resolve, and action.

[justinsmama]

Nonesy~ I really am not trying to play devil's advocate here....

Being a "white" person, it has been difficult for me to to initially see, and ultimately to comprehend even a tiny bit, that there is a unity among "people of color". The only thing that I can offer as being akin to it is the unity among women as sisters. As a woman, I can be and am  a "woman libber" (to use the old term) without squashing men in any way. The reality is that as I am secure in my own identity, I appreciate and like the differences between men and women. I certainly do not want a world without them, nor to make them subserviant to us. Women are deemed second class citizens by a large portion of the world. I do not want any sort of retaliation against men as a result. Instead, I want positive change, and will promote it for my sisters and myself, in a manner that benefits us and does no harm to men, while holding those who abuse us accountable (though some of them may see it as harm). If I understand it accurately, I believe that  black communities who are working toward effective change are simply working toward  assisting other people of color in actualizing themselves.

[mrs. red]

Please - don't bother to call me a racist because I think that Obama presents a problem... quite frankly, I think he is a racist...he is just better spoken than the usual suspects... Jesse, AL, et. al...

and what I personally saw in Obama's comments had nothing to do with a search for identity... it was more, in my eyes the dumping of his girlfriend due to her color.....

How exactly could Obama be having all these issues with a white woman when his mother is white?  He had his parents as an example, didn't he?  He walked among the elite of the elite.... and his color wasn't an issue at Harvard - was it?  Sorry y'all but I don't buy the whole crisis... he would have had that at puberty... not college.

[nonesuche]

Nonesy~ I really am not trying to play devil's advocate here....

Being a "white" person, it has been difficult for me to to initially see, and ultimately to comprehend even a tiny bit, that there is a unity among "people of color". The only thing that I can offer as being akin to it is the unity among women as sisters. As a woman, I can be and am  a "woman libber" (to use the old term) without squashing men in any way. The reality is that as I am secure in my own identity, I appreciate and like the differences between men and women. I certainly do not want a world without them, nor to make them subserviant to us. Women are deemed second class citizens by a large portion of the world. I do not want any sort of retaliation against men as a result. Instead, I want positive change, and will promote it for my sisters and myself, in a manner that benefits us and does no harm to men, while holding those who abuse us accountable (though some of them may see it as harm). If I understand it accurately, I believe that  black communities who are working toward effective change are simply working toward  assisting other people of color in actualizing themselves.

justins if only what you have proposed here were the reality. I posted this letter in response to a political columnist questioning Obama's merit as HER candidate, and didn't post the letter back in entirety for it was so offensive.

I am unsure if any of you are reading it, this IS a supporter of Obama, this IS a literate black-american woman who is a member of the Trinity Church.

So forgive me but I don't think any of you will get the point until I post the entire letter with it's horrible horrible language. I also will state this for the first and last time, I would feel far better about this political forum if only I saw each of you researching as some do, unfortunately some are not doing their homework. This worries me and I won't be so quick to provide research or to defend my position to those who are not doing that same homework in the future.

http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/illinoisreview/2007/01/a_response_from.html

Wednesday, January 17, 2007
Response from a self-proclaimed "radical, racist African American woman"
by Fran Eaton

Thought IR readers might be interested in a letter I received in response to my column in the Star two weeks ago ( here) on Obama's church and its 12-point Black Values System.  

Chanteay, the author, has given me permission to publish it on Illinois Review:

I am a radical, racist AFRICAN AMERICAN woman who wants to run for  President one day and sit in the BLACK HOUSE.  Let me help you out with your need for answers and when I am through you will wish that you had received an answer from Barack Obama instead.

From Star column: "As a non-denominational suburban white woman, I gather all this information and contemplate how Barack Obama could be my president."

Answer:  Who cares?  You are so quintessentially unimportant to the Universe and the greatest failure of created beings, I suggest you take in that reality before you go further.  We have had to sit under your kind and that is worst kind of offense.

Column:  "But at the same time Obama is a longtime, active participant in a church that prides itself in its African heritage and color of skin."

Answer:  Mr. Obama is a longtime, active participant in the blood and genes of the Original race of humankind and in that dark, deep, rich blood is the strength of dominion and GOD complete in the bonds of flesh.  The color of the skin is not an issue for him it is an issue against you.  There is a most natural sense of royalty, joint creatorship, dominion, power, strength, glory and wisdom that is inherent in every naturally African person and it is most unquenchable and unstoppable.

Column:  "It is troubling that his church’s doctrine may demand he promote affirmative action, racial quotas, reparations, bussing and more government programs dependent upon skin color.'

Answer:  You will soon wish that African-Americans continued to wait and see a show of God in you or even the most basest attempts at humanity.  We need nothing from your race.  OUR RACE CREATED YOU!!! through our failings to follow our Creator.  How dare you who corrupted everything on the earth and who came with so little of value to give to think we wait on you as our source!  

You are the devil.  You are a sick, demented race and it is as obvious as the lack of coloring in your skin.  At the least you are so mindlessly and presumptuously racist, read "corrective inferiority" that you think ill of a handful of programs used to correct HUNDREDS OF YEARS of wickedness?!?!  What do you have against bussing children???  And Reparations-  do you actually think that you and your sick children are supposed to blindly reap the benefits of HUNDREDS OF YEARS of racism without PAYBACK?!!!  You'd better hope for monetary remuneration at the least!  

Let me help you out with something else.  We have barely insisted on these things because nothing is worthy that will bring us closer to you and your filthy, disgusting selves.  You'd better be thankful anytime you see an African in your presence because as a race you were not intended to be hear and further Hell on Earth and you are in the presence of God when you are around the most damaged of us!

Column:  "If so, it would be disheartening to the progress we’ve made as a society, and our attempts to fulfill Dr. Martin Luther King’s dream that some day our children will be judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

Answer:  Well, let's just say, Satan was given a mark so that all would be able to recognize him and you will see that in the mirror in your awful, deathly, colorlessness.  Judgment is already against your race and all your generations.  Know this- YOU CAN'T JUDGE US.  You could NEVER BE WORTHY.  You cannot even understand that kind of TRUTH AND WISDOM.  You were made counter to that and your babbling, at it's highest hope of humanity, is utter madness.

Column:  "Perhaps, at the very least, Barack Obama’s presidential campaign will open a frank exchange as to where race relations in this country are now and where they should be in the future."

Answer:  You white woman, are the likeness of a dog, and should be subjugated as such.  You and your man are not intended to rule or have a say in anything.  You are to be destroyed as a race altogether and denied existence and that will be the end of all questions.


Posted by IR Editor | Permalink

[Dihannah1]

Lord have mercy!  Now, that is scary!  What faith/religion is that?  That is not a christian church...  what Bible do they use?   I would think Barack needs to reign in his church's congregation if he thinks he can win.  After reading the post of their church beliefs,  I was stunned to know a man who is seeking presidency could come from such a racist church, and now this letter from a person in the congregation?  Makes me sick!  I'm sure MLK would turn in his grave after reading something like that.

Just like stated in prior posts,  my church accepts all people, no matter race, size, income, background.  Only requirement is to be a human being.

[nonesuche]

Dihannah1-

That woman Chanteay is an admitted "radical" within the Trinity congregation. What I think we must face is that within their basic beliefs that "reparation" is clearly a driver and is mentioned several times.

Honestly in this day and age were my skin color black-american it would be far easier for me to find a job. Should I sue someone for this? Should I blame every black-american I see?

Of course not, I am a rational human being.

[nonesuche]

All of the About Us from Trinity's website:

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

Trinity United Church of Christ adopted the Black Value System written by the Manford Byrd Recognition Committee chaired by Vallmer Jordan in 1981. We believe in the following 12 precepts and covenantal statements. These Black Ethics must be taught and exemplified in homes, churches, nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered. They must reflect on the following concepts:

Commitment to God
Commitment to the Black Community
Commitment to the Black Family
Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence
Adherence to the Black Work Ethic
Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect
Disavowal of the Pursuit of "Middleclassness"
Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the Black Community
Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Black Institutions
Pledge allegiance to all Black leadership who espouse and embrace the Black Value System
Personal commitment to embracement of the Black Value System.
 
The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.

[Dihannah1]

Again,  what Bible to they preach out of?  That is a huge contradiction to my christian version....

That is as scary as the Muslim teachings of hatred and intolerance of others.   One is intolerance of other religions and the other is against race.  It's all radical!  

Looks like the white-american, christian is becoming extinct in this country.  Outnumbered by many other races and religions.  And to make it clear, I am not pointing out one race or religion, so please nobody take offense....   All I want is to just get along no matter what race or religion.  My God taught me to love all my neighbors!

And why am I supposed to be punished for what happend to African-American decades ago?  I wasn't their and I never said it was right.  Damn, let it go!

[nonesuche]

Dihannah1-

Thank you for responding to her diatribe for I was beginning to feel very alone in my concerns regarding it.

Like you, my church isn't about race for we live in a very diverse tech community and it simply would not fly here. We also have a strong hispanic population and indian population. Somehow we have escaped racial divides thusfar and IMO, that's the result of having learned from past mistakes?

Who can make reparations for all? We as women have had significant discrimination and I still don't see boardrooms flinging open wide or equal compensation across the board?

[Dihannah1]

You know, I had read what you were speaking about in your posts previosly, but until I actually read it, did I realize how racist it realy is!   No Obama will not get past that, it will be more widely spread as time goes on.  Thank you for pointing it out to me and enlightening me to this!

As most are saying on here,  it's all about getting educated to empower us to make the right decisions come election time.

[justinsmama]

Sigh...

This woman is one individual expressing her own view (rabid, very angry, insulting, racial, intolerant, etc.).

I do not know that the majority of that congregation is as she is.

I do not know that Obama is as she is.

I will not base my opinion of one individual or an entire congregation on the rabid rantings of another.

The bolded areas of the church's info are not alarming to me. I am interested in further info on how they "remain true to our native land".

[justinsmama]

Forgot to add...

Obama may be the devil himself. Or not. I have seen no evidence that has been presented yet that would indicate that he is the devil in disguise, a good man or something in between.

Of course, he will be scrutinized, as all potential presidential candidates must be. And I will be reading, watching, listening and asking about various points in regard to him. Which is as it should be, IMO.

[Dihannah1]

Just curious Justins.  Do you think you could walk into that church and feel welcome?  Do you think they would reach their arms out to you, unless could/would speak out for your love for "The (their) mother land"? AND  trust you in your words?    I tend to agree with None and co. that the church has to be racist for even putting that in their church doctrine?  
It's obvisous they only welcome African Americans, and that IS prejudice.
If they feel so strongly about the 'mother land', then why are they here?  Why not go to Africa and be faithful to the land you love so stongly?  

I am truly not being sarcastic in my questions, I really want to know the answers...

If that lady truly stands alone or with a few, I would think the church would speak up and defend itself.  My pastor would literally have a coronary if somebody in our church spoke out with such hatred as though representing the church's belief!  The entire congregation would be out in defense immediately defending its true doctrine, which is against hate of any kind.

If I were a senator running for president,  I certainly wouldn't want that type of hate speaking on behalf of my beloved church,  how humiliating that would be!   If my preacher did sit idly by and not defend itself, I would yank my family and children out so fast, I would never want my kids to learn such hatred!  You truly are who you surround yourself with....

[nonesuche]

Dihannah1-

I really admire how you related that, I share the exact same concerns and you expressed those so well.

[justinsmama]

Cannot answer your questions as to whether I would be welcome in that church. I can tell you that there are many churches in my small city that do not embrace or welcome people of color.

[mrs. red]

This is why I am so concerned about Obama's run for President and the willingness of those who are young and haven't studied history to embrace him and feel as if they are making changes in history....

Water seeks its own level.

Please ponder that statement.  The Church  RED and I attend is culturally and racially diverse, I would not have it any other way.  When I was in Sunday school, we sang "Jesus loves the little children, all the children of the world, red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight..."

granted the terminology would not be allowed today  but the point was always driven home to me... by my parents and attending Church...

so if there is a radical, racist  black woman in his Church, let's face it ... there are many, many more....

that kind of hate doesn't need to exist in the White House - we need a strong leader with strong values that will stand up and do the right thing.

My huge fear is that we are going to do in Iraq what we did in Vietnam... and cause the "Killing fields" all over again.

 If y'all don't know/remember what that was.... please let me know I will be happy to see if I can't explain it and I pray everyday that we don't make that mistake again.....

if the WORLD hates us... it would be because of politicans going places and NOT finishing the job

[Dihannah1]

Cannot answer your questions as to whether I would be welcome in that church. I can tell you that there are many churches in my small city that do not embrace or welcome people of color.

That is also racist, just totally wrong and such a terrible shame!  However, that doesn't make it right.  We are talking about a man who wants to be our president.  How can he ever bring our country together and end the divide?

[justinsmama]

I do not believe that my points are being understood, and so I will retire from this thread.

[Dihannah1]

I do not believe that my points are being understood, and so I will retire from this thread.

No please, I never want to discourage anybody for their views.  I am just posting my feelings, not condeming you.  I truly respect all, whether I agree or not.   I admit, I don't understand what you are trying to get at, because I don't agree.  But please don't think I am condemning you for your views....   We are both human and have our rights to our opinions....
I appreciate your thoughts, agreed or not!  

[justinsmama]

I do not believe that my points are being understood, and so I will retire from this thread.

No please, I never want to discourage anybody for their views.  I am just posting my feelings, not condeming you.  I truly respect all, whether I agree or not.   I admit, I don't understand what you are trying to get at, because I don't agree.  But please don't think I am condemning you for your views....   We are both human and have our rights to our opinions....
I appreciate your thoughts, agreed or not!  

I do not see differing views as condemnation or disrespect. I just feel that I am not explaining my stance sufficiently.