Shantina"'Kat" Smiley & 8 yo son Azriel, WA Missing 3/13/10(BODY OF BOY FOUND)

[Edward]

Double Decker has amazing organizational skills.. The web site excellent.
I am not that organized and rely on memory to often. My notes are always a mess. 

[Tracygirl]

Not sure if this has been posted yet.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/group.php?v=wall&ref=search&gid=10150133110780096

[Tracygirl]

Posted on facebook:

Robb Simmons Week 4: No news on Shantina. For us, the days are flying by, yet they are also dragging on. Went down to the scene friday, first time since the monday after. It seems more and more confusing, with only theory and speculation. I still do not subscribe to the theory that she drove down there, but then again thereis the p...ossibility, but I feel it is slim. I miss her every minute of everyday. I still roll over in the morning to hold her in my arms.
April 11

[Tracygirl]

Anyone know the answer to this question? It has been said the wheels of the van look as though someone was stuck and couldn't get out, I suppose because they sunk in the sand? that part I get, heard of that happening in mud or in the snow. But how do they know they were trying to leave and not trying to back in farther? The doors and back hatch being open, could be as was mentioned prior by Lab I think, could have been done so it sinks easier. If it was low tide that night, they could have been trying to drive it into the deeper waters. Comment or opinions?

[Tracygirl]

In one report I read it said several calls were made by Shantina's phone, and le was looking into it. Does anyone recall reading this? Has it been confirmed her phone was not with her? We see her using a pay phone but for all we know she didn't get cell reception or maybe she was calling someone she didn't wish listed on her cell phone records.

[labubske]

In one report I read it said several calls were made by Shantina's phone, and le was looking into it. Does anyone recall reading this? Has it been confirmed her phone was not with her? We see her using a pay phone but for all we know she didn't get cell reception or maybe she was calling someone she didn't wish listed on her cell phone records.

I read that too...Tracygirl.  I will see if I have it.  Were you asking me why I took the 26th st route?  If so, I didn't...I just put the addresses in and the map tool did the rest.  I don't know if it has been confirmed that her phone was not with her...I do recall reading that when she called Robb at 6:45pm she had asked him to grab her phone on the way out...because I was thinking if it were planned and he was suppose to meet her after the meeting...why would she think that he would be at home to grab it...but, this all came from Robb...I will go and look now for that article.  Oh, and thanks Edward...it didn't take much time to do it...but it's really interesting to follow along the same lines as her at a close up field...you see what she was seeing...you see what was in between all of the places that she went...

[Wyks]

I disagree.

There is nothing that points to a POI, or murder(s) there is only, IMO, a set of circumstances that end in tragedy, caused by stupidly and senselessness.

We can agree to disagree.    

Just as there may be nothing that points to a POI... yet... there also may be nothing that points to this being caused by stupidity and senselessness... yet.  IMO. 

[Tracygirl]

Thanks Lab. I asked about the route because as I said earlier I had found a person with the last name Smiley in the Olympic area and the report stated it was in that direct area.

I am not sure how accurate the report is so I have not posted it. It has been passed on, hopefully something will come of it.

I am now obsessed with this case and will not or cannot let go until we find out something. If these poor people were victims of a string of accidents and mishaps then I am truly sorry but they might not be and I cannot stand the thought of little Azriel being killed without justice.

 

[labubske]

Anyone know the answer to this question? It has been said the wheels of the van look as though someone was stuck and couldn't get out, I suppose because they sunk in the sand? that part I get, heard of that happening in mud or in the snow. But how do they know they were trying to leave and not trying to back in farther? The doors and back hatch being open, could be as was mentioned prior by Lab I think, could have been done so it sinks easier. If it was low tide that night, they could have been trying to drive it into the deeper waters. Comment or opinions?

I'm not sure how they determine that...but, it seems like it could be a possibility.

[labubske]

Thanks Lab. I asked about the route because as I said earlier I had found a person with the last name Smiley in the Olympic area and the report stated it was in that direct area.

I am not sure how accurate the report is so I have not posted it. It has been passed on, hopefully something will come of it.

I am now obsessed with this case and will not or cannot let go until we find out something. If these poor people were victims of a string of accidents and mishaps then I am truly sorry but they might not be and I cannot stand the thought of little Azriel being killed without justice.

 

I am all into this case also...in bed late...passing up study time...but, I just can't shake the feeling that there is more here.  I know that when things are dissected it is easy to find discrepancies...but it is more than that here...I wish that we could see cell phone records. 

[Wyks]

Thanks TG!

I'm so glad there are others who have tons of questions about this case.  It just seems wrong somehow to let this case go with a simple, 'oh drat, another tragic accident due to alcohol'.  No no no no no!  I think there's MUCH MORE to this case, it truly feels like a double murder.  I wish there was a way we could actually team up with someone close to Shantina and/or her family in order to help each other make some sense of all this.

I get the feeling this case will go down the Savio way.

Six years in the future we will read of some other girlfriend disappearing while driving around Olympia.

:MonkeyViolin::

Oh sure hope not, Itaryl.  And yet, it sure could happen that way.  Sadly. 

[Wyks]

Nice work on the map. 

I agree!  Great job, labubske!   

[Wyks]

TG

Am still musing over your long post with great points and questions, as well as the posts by others with just as great points and questions.  We sure do have an abundance of them, don't we? 

You wrote:
"We are hearing one side of a story that has changed over and over again by Robb".

Am thinking that here is one of the biggest difficulties that we are facing right now, because the majority of what LE and the public knows about this case, has come from Robb.  Since what he has said keeps changing, it's hard to know what to believe anymore.   


 

[labubske]

Nice work on the map. 

I agree!  Great job, labubske!   

Awww...thanks you all.  I'm just trying to make some kind of sense of it.  Everyone has great input...and I think that we all work great together and follow each other's thought process so well.

[Wyks]

Anyone know the answer to this question? It has been said the wheels of the van look as though someone was stuck and couldn't get out, I suppose because they sunk in the sand? that part I get, heard of that happening in mud or in the snow. But how do they know they were trying to leave and not trying to back in farther? The doors and back hatch being open, could be as was mentioned prior by Lab I think, could have been done so it sinks easier. If it was low tide that night, they could have been trying to drive it into the deeper waters. Comment or opinions?

Hmmm.. great questions TG!  Hadn't really thought about the fact whoever was driving the van could have been trying to drive it in deeper.  Am not convinced that Shantina was driving.  No 'other' fingerprints were found in the van, IIRC.  And yet... it was Robb's van, LE probably overlooked any of his that might have been found.  But in any case, I was looking at that pic with the idea that the marks on the beach were from the van trying to get outta there, not in further.  (LE may have been thinking the same, dunno)  But your suggestion bears further thought!  That actually would IMO explain why the van doors were open, as if someone were actually *trying* to back up further into the water and submerge the whole thing.  Cannot think of any good reason for why the back hatch was open, unless she was trying to get something or Az out the back way.  But the open side door seems easier.  Tis a mystery! 

When I first saw the tire marks on the beach, I can see where she (or someone) may have been trying to do a 3-pt turn around, getting stuck on the 2nd pt of that turn.  However, there are many circles in the sand, or what seem like circles.  So many that it looks like the van spun around and around.  If so, would it leave circles like that?  And I'm not so sure that what looks like so many were done by the van itself.  Was trying to envision what the sand would look like with two vehicles out there on it.  And/or if one of those vehicles were a motorcycle, would the two tire track leave the sand looking like that?  I have visions of a motorcycle going in circles around the van................ Maybe too much CSI Miami??   

Well... the reason I'm thinking those circles may not have been made totally by the van.. is because I got a big U-Haul stuck in some wet sand one time.  Yeah I know ... how the heck?  Well it's a long story and involved my being lost, a dark night, an unknown road with no turn arounds, and a beach at the end.  Sigh.  Took a damn tractor to pull me outta there.    

But my point is to say that the U-Haul didn't spin around and around in circles, it got stuck in the sand and sank further into it.  One set of tire tracks in.  Nothing I put under those tires would allow me to back it out or move it forward.  It sank. 

Soooooooo.... I realize that a mini-van is much lighter than a U-Haul.  Did the van spin around once when it hit the water, ending up with the rear end in that water?  If so, that would only leave one set of tire marks in a circle in the sand.  So two circles then, for the front tires, right?  What then are the many circular marks all together, not spaced apart as the van tires are? 

Could be a motorcycle driving round and round the van, keeping it from driving out of the water, perhaps sending it further into the water, getting stuck?  Robb was driving a motorcycle that night.....   

I dunno.  There are so many possibilities......................
 

 

[Wyks]

Posted on facebook:

Robb Simmons Week 4: No news on Shantina. For us, the days are flying by, yet they are also dragging on. Went down to the scene friday, first time since the monday after. It seems more and more confusing, with only theory and speculation. I still do not subscribe to the theory that she drove down there, but then again thereis the p...ossibility, but I feel it is slim. I miss her every minute of everyday. I still roll over in the morning to hold her in my arms.
April 11

Thanks for this update, hadn't had the chance to see it yet!  Interesting that some of his words for Shantina seem heartfelt.  And am glad to see him writing a bit actually re Shantina, not the majority about himself and his own 'grief' and woes.  Am wondering, if he doesn't believe that she drove down there, what would be HIS theory on how the van ended up there?  Wonder if we'll hear at some point soon him admitting to a possibility that she was having an affair or something. 

Please don't get me wrong, I dunno if she was or wasn't, and I haven't tossed the idea that she may have created this whole thing as a stunt ended up badly.  We just don't know.  I want to entertain all sorts of possible ideas and keep an open mind.  I just don't want this case to be judged simply an unfortunate alcoholic tragedy or something purposefully done simply based on the fact that she bought wine and *Robb says* she relapsed.  We don't know if she relapsed.  We only know what HE tells the public.  And he could have a bias for nefarious reasons, who knows. 

It's just that at first, we heard from Robb all this sweet and rosy stuff about Shantina, including that she didn't have a drug/alcohol/emotional problem.  Then.... bit by bit.... he added oh yeah, there was this possibility..... and um maybe that... and those changed to certainties, not possibilities.  So then we were looking at a completely different picture of Shantina, rather than what he had attempted to paint in the beginning.  And yet... no one in her own family has come out to confirm or deny what Robb has said about her.  The more Robb talks, the more I can begin to understand ... *if* Shantina did indeed relapse and/or plan to leave and/or be having an affair, or just be innocently trying to have her own friends/plans, etc ... why she might do any of that!

[Wyks]

One of my theories ....

Robb seems to me to be a controlling, jealous and possessive type.

I think Robb had Shantina's cell phone. 

I think there may have been something on her phone that Robb found that pissed him off.  It could have been an innocent thing, maybe not so innocent.

I think that he followed Shantina in Olympia and caught up with her at some point.

I think when she called him around 6:30p she realized that not only was he NOT just leaving his meeting as she thought, he also had her phone, he was already in Olympia, and that he was following her. 

I think that for some reason the knowledge of all this freaked her out, and disoriented her.

I think that at the diner after ordering food for Az, she saw/heard Robb, and ran outta there to try and ditch him. 

I think that at some point he caught up with her and there was a confrontation.

Robb *says* he went to the step-father's, who has not confirmed whether he did or didn't. 

What if he didn't even go to Castle Rock until after a possible confrontation with Shantina, after she left the Williams home? 

What if that confrontation ended in death? 

I have other theories.............

I can back this up to perhaps Shantina finally ditched him at some point, there was no late night confrontation.  Perhaps driving into the water was Shantina giving up, realizing she'd never get away from him?  Perhaps all of this had nothing to do with Robb at all, perhaps she actually met someone else and was trying to get on with a new life?   

Heck I dunno.... still thinking over several possibilities.
 

[Wyks]

Not an article, but I think is interesting and might want to save. A poster at Websleuths did a family tree for Shantina:

03-18-2010, 01:39 AM #170
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98091&page=4

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4159/shantree.jpg

[Edward]

Interesting thoughts. 

[labubske]

thanks for the family tree Wyks.  Here is a better image of the Williams entrance...this is the first decent picture that I have found...
http://www.terraserver.com/view.asp?cx=508870&cy=5216080&mpp=0.75&proj=32610&pic=obl&prov=-1&stac=-1&ovrl=-1&vic=
you can move it around...would you stop there for directions?