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Author Topic: Shantina"'Kat" Smiley & 8 yo son Azriel, WA Missing 3/13/10(BODY OF BOY FOUND)  (Read 209913 times)
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Edward
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« Reply #800 on: May 05, 2010, 03:05:05 PM »

Accidental is a big word.. Almost everything medical is a guess...jmho

If she was drunk and struggling in the water and her son went after her..
Most people that try to help a struggling victim get drown themselves..

If she survived maybe it was her that hit the wall of the home.. Not for help but out of frustration..
IF that is in fact true at all.

Then she RUNS !

But if she did run why has nobody seen her or herd from her ??
Maybe somebody in the family or her close friends has ?????
She remains in hiding for fear of prosecution over an accidental drowning ??

I feel like she is dead.. But who really knows as anything is possible.
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Tracygirl
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« Reply #801 on: May 05, 2010, 03:20:41 PM »

It was mentioned that maybe Azriel was over come by hyporthermia and then drowned. I found this, it actually takes some time for this to occur. I suppose if he could swim and found his self being taken out to the middle of the water and he could not fight a current, then it would apply. although I am not sure it fits with this case. This link also has some interesting facts on drowning etc...


http://www.dundee.ac.uk/forensicmedicine/notes/water.pdf

Prolonged immersion in water less than 68F carries the threat of hypothermia. For a person in
good health ordinarily clothed and wearing a life jacket, the expected survival time for given
water temperatures are: less than 3/4 hour at less than 35°F; less than 11/2 hours at 35-40°F; less
than 3 hours at 40-50°F; less than 6 hours at 50-60°F.
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Edward
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« Reply #802 on: May 05, 2010, 03:30:32 PM »

That water is really cold.
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khheather
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« Reply #803 on: May 05, 2010, 03:31:29 PM »

  Hi. cool to see so many folks online at once. I just got here. Am going to read the thread, catch up... Smile
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Tracygirl
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« Reply #804 on: May 05, 2010, 03:45:54 PM »

Can someone please help me find the average water temperature of Budd Inlet?

http://www.dundee.ac.uk/forensicmedicine/notes/water.pdf
EFFECTS OF IMMERSION
1. Sinking, putrefaction and refloating
A body in water will usually sink but because the specific gravity of a body is
very close to that of water then small variations e.g. air trapped in clothing have a
considerable effect on buoyancy. Having sunk to the bottom the body will remain
there until putrefactive gas formation decreases the specific gravity of the body
and creates sufficient buoyancy to allow it to rise to the surface and float. Heavy
clothing and weights attached to the body may delay but will not usually prevent
the body rising. Putrefaction proceeds at a slower rate in water than in air, in sea
water than in fresh water and in running water than in stagnant water. The
principal determinant is the temperature of the water so that in deep very cold
water e.g. the North American Great Lakes or the ocean the body may never
resurface.
For the Thames, Simpson offers the following guidelines for resurfacing times:
June to August: 2 days; April, May, September and October: 3-5 days;
November, December: 10-14 days; January, February; possibly no resurfacing.
At water temperatures persistently below 45°F there may be no appreciable
decomposition after several weeks.
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khheather
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« Reply #805 on: May 05, 2010, 03:46:25 PM »

ARRGH... I am trying to upload that interview, Tracygirl, w/ RS on Ron&Don. Edward... You should really listen if you haven't. The man is less than satisfied w/ the answers and ends up point blank asking RS his involvement if any. And RS gives yet more inconsistencies... Please give me a second. The upload keeps timing out on me...
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khheather
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« Reply #806 on: May 05, 2010, 03:51:38 PM »

<a href="http://www.mynorthwest.com/?nid=577&amp;a=15726" target="_blank">http://www.mynorthwest.com/?nid=577&amp;a=15726</a> giving it a try a different way since the upload is failing... Ron & Don exclusive w/ RS. A eerie interview... 
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khheather
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« Reply #807 on: May 05, 2010, 04:02:02 PM »

Can someone please help me find the average water temperature of Budd Inlet?

http://www.dundee.ac.uk/forensicmedicine/notes/water.pdf
EFFECTS OF IMMERSION
1. Sinking, putrefaction and refloating
A body in water will usually sink but because the specific gravity of a body is
very close to that of water then small variations e.g. air trapped in clothing have a
considerable effect on buoyancy. Having sunk to the bottom the body will remain
there until putrefactive gas formation decreases the specific gravity of the body
and creates sufficient buoyancy to allow it to rise to the surface and float. Heavy
clothing and weights attached to the body may delay but will not usually prevent
the body rising. Putrefaction proceeds at a slower rate in water than in air, in sea
water than in fresh water and in running water than in stagnant water. The
principal determinant is the temperature of the water so that in deep very cold
water e.g. the North American Great Lakes or the ocean the body may never
resurface.
For the Thames, Simpson offers the following guidelines for resurfacing times:
June to August: 2 days; April, May, September and October: 3-5 days;
November, December: 10-14 days; January, February; possibly no resurfacing.
At water temperatures persistently below 45°F there may be no appreciable
decomposition after several weeks.
do you understand what they mean by the temperature affecting whether or not a body will resurface?
"Putrefaction proceeds at a slower rate in water than in air, in sea
water than in fresh water and in running water than in stagnant water. The
principal determinant is the temperature of the water so that in deep very cold
water e.g. the North American Great Lakes or the ocean the body may never
resurface."
I would assume cold water would slow putrefaction--oh do they mean so well that the decomposition gases never cause it to rise???
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khheather
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« Reply #808 on: May 05, 2010, 04:05:09 PM »

Can someone please help me find the average water temperature of Budd Inlet?

http://www.dundee.ac.uk/forensicmedicine/notes/water.pdf
EFFECTS OF IMMERSION
1. Sinking, putrefaction and refloating
A body in water will usually sink but because the specific gravity of a body is
very close to that of water then small variations e.g. air trapped in clothing have a
considerable effect on buoyancy. Having sunk to the bottom the body will remain
there until putrefactive gas formation decreases the specific gravity of the body
and creates sufficient buoyancy to allow it to rise to the surface and float. Heavy
clothing and weights attached to the body may delay but will not usually prevent
the body rising. Putrefaction proceeds at a slower rate in water than in air, in sea
water than in fresh water and in running water than in stagnant water. The
principal determinant is the temperature of the water so that in deep very cold
water e.g. the North American Great Lakes or the ocean the body may never
resurface.
For the Thames, Simpson offers the following guidelines for resurfacing times:
June to August: 2 days; April, May, September and October: 3-5 days;
November, December: 10-14 days; January, February; possibly no resurfacing.
At water temperatures persistently below 45°F there may be no appreciable
decomposition after several weeks.
straight from the horses's mouth--not budd inlet specifically, but a TON of info on temps and more in puget sound courtesty the navy, of course...
http://www.nrlmry.navy.mil/port_studies/puget_sound/text/environmental.htm

interesting avenue of research Tracygirl! good info...
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Tracygirl
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« Reply #809 on: May 05, 2010, 04:22:49 PM »



per the link posted by heather. The water temp is probably in the mid 40's to the mid 50's. That is cold and that temperature considering the privious information a body may decompose at a slower rate which would slow the gases needed to make it pop up and float.

From what I have read there are a lot of things on the bottom of the water way there. If she drowned she could be stuck on something or is being held down by something. Good thing is, since the water is cold it will slow down the decomposition and a cause of death would be able to be found if they decide to look for her body that is.
 Why Azriel washed ashore and not Shantina is strange unless one considers her body is being held down by something.

3.5 WATER TEMPERATURES

Water temperatures in Puget Sound and the Strait of Juan de Fuca vary by
approximately eight to nine degrees Fahrenheit from summer to winter. The water
temperature in the Strait is generally 2°F (1.1°C) cooler than the waters of
central Puget Sound. According to U.S. Department of Commerce (1986), winter
temperatures vary from 46°F (7.8°C) at Seattle and 44°F (6.7°C) at Port Townsend
to 45°F (7.2°C) at Neah Bay. Summer temperatures vary from 56°F (13.3°C) at
Seattle and 54°F (12.2°C) at Port Townsend to 53°F (11.7°C) at Neah Bay.

Because of the relatively cold water temperatures, survivability of personnel
who are immersed in the water by falling overboard or other means, is severely
jeopardized. Hypothermia resulting from immersion, either intentional or
unintentional, is a life-threatening hazard that must be taken seriously.
Non-swimming, average person has a life expectancy of approximately two hours in
calm water with a temperature of 44°F (7°C), and four hours in calm water with a
temperature of 56°F (13°C). The times could be reduced to one and two hours
respectively for "fast coolers", i.e. persons of low body weight, children,
light clothing, or those who are exercising such as persons without PFDs who
must swim to remain afloat.
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Tracygirl
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« Reply #810 on: May 05, 2010, 04:28:44 PM »

An interesting thing I learned yesterday, Robb and Shantina had 2 cars a van and another one that Shantina drove. Robb somehow ended up with this daughter, did he go back to his house and switch from his bike to the car? Was his daughter riding on the bike?

Are there any articles or explanations of when he switched cars or if he did?
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Tracygirl
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« Reply #811 on: May 05, 2010, 05:01:48 PM »

Sorry for all of the posts...work is slow today and I have nother better to do then be on the internet.

I am looking for an interview Robb did with Fox news but in trying to find that I came across this interview he did with CBS morning news just 4 days after she and Azriel went missing. AT this time Azriel's body had not washed to shore. The only thing known was Shantina stopped at a few places, bought wine and it was being assumed she wound up at the end of the dead end path that lead to the beach area. But no sign of them being alive or dead. Robb makes a pretty strong statement that he has no idea what went on that night, has no idea why she would drive there, What she was up to, didn't know if they were alive or dead. He even pleads for their release if they are being held.
So here is the video as I watched it I wondered what happened in between Robb doing this interview and now. Was it that Azriels body was found? There still are signs of Shantina alive or dead, just assumptions. unless something is known but people do not wish to talk. So I will post the interview

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viHyzXflsUo
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khheather
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« Reply #812 on: May 05, 2010, 05:10:41 PM »

An interesting thing I learned yesterday, Robb and Shantina had 2 cars a van and another one that Shantina drove. Robb somehow ended up with this daughter, did he go back to his house and switch from his bike to the car? Was his daughter riding on the bike?

Are there any articles or explanations of when he switched cars or if he did?

that is a really good question! b/c he says he was on his bike & stopped for repairs. And then on that Ron&Don show he *does* discuss the fact that they have two cars, & I am not sure--I could not hear clearly--if he says he took the car on that show, but I got the feeling that by mentioning that fact--b/c why would he not say she took the van b/c i like to ride my bike every chance i get or that she took the van b/c i planned to take my bike--he was trying to give the impression or alluding to the idea that he took the other car--not the van. And I have seen a picture of that car. I will post it now. Well, maybe this is NOT the car, but he chose to take a pick of both his bike and that car together at his homecoming from their portland trip. Now my question would be did he mean by 2 cars a van & a bike, or did he mean 2 cars van & car? i can't understand why anyone would call a bike a car, so I am assuming he DOES have a car, and that this is possibly it next to his bike:


I am eventually going to sit down and do a *serious* time line for myself that attempts to answer some of these questions &/or resolve inconsistencies. i am *praying* that God gives Shantina a voice! Let us find her w/ evidence of what has really happened! Let her or her body surface. I am so ANGRY at the way she has been TRASHED since people started to tell all the tragedies & bad decisions in her life--casting stones! All it takes is a person w/ any sort of genuine instinct to feel just by looking at this woman that she had a good heart, that she was well intentioned even if she fell short at times, and that her love for her little boy was genuine even if she made bad choices as a mom. A person's countenance reveals A LOT! It is the same instinct that tells me that even if RS has nothing to do w/ this he is shifty & maybe that has to do w/ enabling her or something of that nature, but his motives either w/ her or w/ this tragedy are not honest & not pure, it does not take a genius to figure that out just a person w/ a decent instinct. Compare the reactions of RS & Azriel's dad respectively. Now that was a decent man. He may have sucked in his role as a parent, but his alarm & determination to get the truth were honorable, and so was his admission that he lamented his distance as a parent in the wake of the tragedy. Now that is a real person!

Can anyone tell me--WHY do you think that RS said on TV that he was "retired" when in fact he is on contract???
There are tons of examples I have snipped that show he IS working at this base--here is one...
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khheather
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« Reply #813 on: May 05, 2010, 05:12:19 PM »

Sorry for all of the posts...work is slow today and I have nother better to do then be on the internet.

I am looking for an interview Robb did with Fox news but in trying to find that I came across this interview he did with CBS morning news just 4 days after she and Azriel went missing. AT this time Azriel's body had not washed to shore. The only thing known was Shantina stopped at a few places, bought wine and it was being assumed she wound up at the end of the dead end path that lead to the beach area. But no sign of them being alive or dead. Robb makes a pretty strong statement that he has no idea what went on that night, has no idea why she would drive there, What she was up to, didn't know if they were alive or dead. He even pleads for their release if they are being held.
So here is the video as I watched it I wondered what happened in between Robb doing this interview and now. Was it that Azriels body was found? There still are signs of Shantina alive or dead, just assumptions. unless something is known but people do not wish to talk. So I will post the interview

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viHyzXflsUo

oh, is posting a bunch a bad thing? i hope not    i am stoked that you have been able to be online and posting.
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khheather
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« Reply #814 on: May 05, 2010, 05:25:39 PM »

Sorry for all of the posts...work is slow today and I have nother better to do then be on the internet.

I am looking for an interview Robb did with Fox news but in trying to find that I came across this interview he did with CBS morning news just 4 days after she and Azriel went missing. AT this time Azriel's body had not washed to shore. The only thing known was Shantina stopped at a few places, bought wine and it was being assumed she wound up at the end of the dead end path that lead to the beach area. But no sign of them being alive or dead. Robb makes a pretty strong statement that he has no idea what went on that night, has no idea why she would drive there, What she was up to, didn't know if they were alive or dead. He even pleads for their release if they are being held.
So here is the video as I watched it I wondered what happened in between Robb doing this interview and now. Was it that Azriels body was found? There still are signs of Shantina alive or dead, just assumptions. unless something is known but people do not wish to talk. So I will post the interview

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viHyzXflsUo


fox--
<a href="http://video.foxnews.com/v/embed.js?id=4108650&amp;w=400&amp;h=249" target="_blank">http://video.foxnews.com/v/embed.js?id=4108650&amp;w=400&amp;h=249</a>
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khheather
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« Reply #815 on: May 05, 2010, 05:27:18 PM »

Sorry for all of the posts...work is slow today and I have nother better to do then be on the internet.

I am looking for an interview Robb did with Fox news but in trying to find that I came across this interview he did with CBS morning news just 4 days after she and Azriel went missing. AT this time Azriel's body had not washed to shore. The only thing known was Shantina stopped at a few places, bought wine and it was being assumed she wound up at the end of the dead end path that lead to the beach area. But no sign of them being alive or dead. Robb makes a pretty strong statement that he has no idea what went on that night, has no idea why she would drive there, What she was up to, didn't know if they were alive or dead. He even pleads for their release if they are being held.
So here is the video as I watched it I wondered what happened in between Robb doing this interview and now. Was it that Azriels body was found? There still are signs of Shantina alive or dead, just assumptions. unless something is known but people do not wish to talk. So I will post the interview

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viHyzXflsUo


fox--
<a href="http://video.foxnews.com/v/embed.js?id=4108650&amp;w=400&amp;h=249" target="_blank">http://video.foxnews.com/v/embed.js?id=4108650&amp;w=400&amp;h=249</a>
crud. didn't work here's the link

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4108650/missing-moms-fiance-speaks-out
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Tracygirl
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« Reply #816 on: May 05, 2010, 05:44:17 PM »

Thanks for the link to the video, honestly I couldn't find it anywhere! Helps tons, thanks
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Tracygirl
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« Reply #817 on: May 05, 2010, 06:08:05 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkqK6TgbL34&feature=related

Look at the video of the water. It was very active out there. Someone posted there was a strong wind storm, I agree with that.

Well I am now off of work. See you all later! Here is to finding the answers soon.
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khheather
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« Reply #818 on: May 05, 2010, 07:22:17 PM »

interview w/ robb on ron & don A MUST HEAR... robb is point blank asked if he is involved in this in anyway.(ron & don are my heroes) it is very revealing. i have tried and tried to upload the mp3 file but it times out every time I try so i am just going to post the URL--click to hear:

[mp3=200,200]http://icestream.bonnint.net/seattle/kiro/2010/03/p_Ron_and_Don_Show_20100316_6pm.mp3
[/mp3]

http://www.mynorthwest.com/?nid=577&a=15726

one of these will work ~~ 
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khheather
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« Reply #819 on: May 05, 2010, 08:36:09 PM »

ron & don A MUST HEAR... robb is point blank asked if he is involved in this in anyway.(ron & don are my heroes) it is very revealing. i have compressed the mp3 file--i think it was too large, so this should post & then you can just listen to it here:
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