Shantina"'Kat" Smiley & 8 yo son Azriel, WA Missing 3/13/10(BODY OF BOY FOUND)

[Wyks]

The red arrow to the right center of this pic shows where the tiny, narrow, gravel roadway begins.  And remember, it was pitch dark outside... no moonlight even.




This is that narrow pathway leading to the beach.  She *could have* hit bushes/trees all the way down, evidently didn't.  And didn't drive off the edge either.  The red dot shows where the van went into the water.

[Wyks]

I mentioned this before, it's just a burning question for me right now....

Who is this friend?  Robb says that Shantina had no friends in Olympia.  Was there no friend, this being just sloppy reporting by the media.  ??   This is the only article I've found that mentions it. 

~~~

"Police say Smiley then stopped by a diner in east Olympia to order food, but then she left without taking the food.  Workers say she fell in the parking lot upon leaving the establishment.  Smiley was then traced to a grocery store in Boston Harbor before she visited a friend nearby. "

http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/state/story/Body-of-child-found-on-Fox-Island-is-missing-boy/lsOYwCNxmE-AWgKbPDAikA.cspx

Exactly WHO Is this friend ???  She had another hour on 5 before they arrive at the supposed Castle rock ..
Her son told employees of the restaurant that she hit her head.
She also tells her grandparents that she had an accident.. Yet the vehicle is OK ?
The witness Williams does not mention her having any personal injury, YET He does mention that she was scared..

They ordered food at the restaurant and yet leave without the food ?? what kind of stress was she under ? or in other terms what was she afraid of ?  she never returned for the food ??
where was her mind ?
We have a cook who makes a statement on the internet about the restaurant situation but never talks with police about it ??
A recovering alcoholic ?? why did her other half mention that ? seems odd to discount your other half in the news no ? Then to cover himself in almost every way in the aftermath ? How many people do you see do this in all of the cases we have researched over they years ? None.. They find video of her purchasing cheap wine on video ?
What kind of stress was she under to end up purchasing the wine ?? She was recovered and with her child on a drive.. They were supposedly on there way to meet her step father that she had not seen in years ? yet she calls her grandparents ?

Help me out here I am confused with this obvious set up.
She was knocked in the head and the store purchase and almost all of it is a set up leading to her sons death and her disappearance in my opinion..

HALF the fricken ashes.. That is sick..
jmho

 

Edward, good points and questions!!  Wish we had answers.....

[Tracygirl]

here is a link to the tire tracks...I don't know yet how to post a picture. 

http://www.king5.com/news/Search-to-continue-for-missing-Silverdale-mother-young-son--87648637.html?gallery=y&c=y&img=5

Is this the pic of the sand Wykes was speaking of?

There are several things about this pic that leads me to believe this is not the actual picture of the tire tracks originally found that morning. See the footprints that are leading to the left of the pic? Supposedly investigators found no footprints leading to or from the van. Also, there was not a stack of stuff when we see the pic of the van on the beach. I think the water is to the left of the pic because of the green patch to the right. I think the stack of things with the blue tarp is lining the that little pathway used to get to that beach. The other tire marks, the circle I think are the ones from the le vehicals we see on the beach. Look to the left middle of the pic, there are tire tracks leading out of the pic, I think those are the tire tracks from the van that lead down to the water. The footprints we see in the upper left corner must be from LE or the person that found the van.

I think it is possible the van was actually brought down there when it was light out, crack of dawn maybe? They could have backed down that pathway and took it all of the way down to the shoreline. I wouldn't be able to do that but there are drivers that can back up through anything. Look at truck drivers? They can back up into a small little stall! Never could go backwards, lol.

I think the van got stuck at the end of the pathway and not at the shoreline or maybe another vehical got stuck. The van could have been parked at the end of that road, maybe Kat was tired and needed a rest.

I could be totally wrong or off base so I certainly am not saying any theories are wrong and I am right. I am just trying to answer the question, how did she navigate that path in pitch darkness and what are all of the tire marks.

[Tracygirl]

This is an interview with Jerry Smiley, Shantina's ex husband. I have read comments it looks like he laughs, but people do that sometimes when they are nervous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbUeSJkVtBc&NR=1

Oops hit post too soon. This video shows the williams and has a clear upclose shot of the tire tracks leading into the water.

at 1:55 of this video it shows the tire marks leading to the water. Can some one do a screen shot and post it? Thanks!

[Wyks]

Wanna try an excersize that is very interesting? Try to imagine your impression of this case if Robb hadn't changed his story from saying he last spoke to Shantina at 4:10 before she left  as he first was stating, to his speaking to her at 6:45 and her telling him she had pulled off the road because of traffic, she wasn't quite sure where she was, she left behind her cell phone. I did and now I know why he did that.

Also, what would your impression had been about the wine if we didn't hear she had fallen off the wagon and had a drinking problem?

*IF* the last time Robb had last spoken with Shantina (as he first stated) was at 4.10p... then IMO... she would have likely brought his cell phone charger as requested.. And she was supposedly leaving soon.  Robb has said she called him twice around 4.10p.  And that's about all we know about the 4.10p phone calls, right?  Am thinking that's about all Robb said they talked about at that time.   

So at about 4:10p, did she call the first time, they talked, hung up, she calls him right back?  Why?  Well maybe one of their phones cut off in the middle of the convo so she called him back. ??  Robb doesn't indicate what Shantina said in each of those two phone calls about 4.10p.  Unless he is just giving the gist of both those calls together?  Dunno.......

Surely they said more?  lol...

It seems that she did not realize at that time that Robb was about to end his meeting and hit the road.  From what has been reported, she must have been under the impression that Robb would be at that meeting until 6:30 or so.  As others have talked about, it seems odd that HE does not tell her in those two 4.10p phone calls that the meeting was about to wrap up and that he could leave early.  (Seems odd, unless he didn't want her to know that he was able to leave earlier than 6:30p).  There is the possibility that Robb did not know at the time of the 4:10p phone calls that the meeting was going to end very soon.  Unlikely if he was paying attention, but possible. 

We don't know exactly when she actually left.. Robb reports that in the 4.10p call (in one or both of them) she said she was about to leave.  But LE reported that she left about 5p.  Wonder how LE knows that?  Do they know that because Robb told them that?  He didn't say anything about 5p in any of the interviews or posts online that I saw/read.  Or could LE know she left about 5p perhaps from Shantina's phone records?  Maybe she actually placed the last of supposedly two calls from home to Robb.. at 5p, which could have indicated to LE that's about when she left?   I wish LE would/could be more specific in their statements, cuz we don't have many 'facts' to go on. 

The other thing about those calls about 4.10p.. If that actually had been the last call(s)/contact that Robb had with Shantina, then he would likely have gotten to Castle Rock without knowing where the step-father lived, because he supposedly left without knowing the exact address.  He has said that he got that info from Shantina at the supposed 6:45p call.  (He has reported two phone calls from her at 6.45p as well, the first call he didn't talk with her, he says). 

Why....... IF they were actually planning to spend the weekend at her step-fathers home in CastleRock........ why didn't Robb have the actual address to the step-fathers home with him, ahead of time?  Bad planning?  Forgetful?  They just didn't think about it?  They seriously went in two seperate vehicles to one destination with one of them NOT knowing where the step-father actually lives?  Nawwwwww... I don't buy it.  But that's just me.   

From what Robb says, he told her at the supposed 6:45p phone call that he was able to leave earlier than what they had originally planned/discussed.  From all indications, Shantina realized in that supposed 6:45p call that not only did Robb leave earlier, but that he actually at that moment was at least a half-hour ahead of her on the road.  He supposedly was in that town between Olympia and Castle Rock getting his bike repaired. 

It seems from what we have been told anyway, that Shantina didn't appear to have problems until she reached Olympia.  The first indication of problems (that we know of) was when she went into the Handy Pantry at 7:50p, asked for directions.... then about 10 minutes later goes into the Safeway gas-mini-mart, asking for directions again.  She could have reached the freeway again had she stayed on that road, which led back to the freeway.  But she doesn't stay on that road.  She makes a turn to the left, which then was paralleling the freeway and goes on into the center of Olympia.  She seems to be wandering around, ignoring the directions given TWICE.  Why?? 
 
From all indications (from Robb) she seems to have been fine when she left Silverdale, (between 4:10p and 5:00p), and seems disoriented for some reason a few hours later, when she's in Olympia.  Like so many others are wondering..... what happened between the time she left Silverdale and when we see her on the video at Handy Pantry?   

IMO, whatever happened had to do with the supposed 6:45p phone call to Robb.  When she supposedly learned that he had left earlier and was ahead of her on the road.  Or was he??  Was he actually IN Olympia?  Did they have an argument during that phone call, or earlier?  Did she find out he actually had her phone with him?  Did he find something on her phone that pissed him off, or that she was afraid he would find?  Was she trying to leave him and was he trying to find her to make her not leave him?  Was he following her or was she afraid that he might have been following her?  And if so, was she trying to ditch him or avoid him?  In my opinion, finding out that there was a change in plans and he was around there, NOT just getting ready to leave from the meeting, *could have* freaked her out, for whatever reason.  Was this causing her to be disoriented?  Why then doesn't she jump back on the freeway and get the heck out of there?  Soooooooo many questions........

But I think that whatever the problem may have been, it started with that supposed call or contact around 6:45p.  The fact that Robb chose not to mention that supposed call in one interview, saying THE LAST TIME HE TALKED WITH HER, was at 4:10p.......... His changing that story, is what for me makes the red flags fall down all over the place. 

[Tracygirl]

I am reading your last post and I read,
"Surly they had to talk more" and I laughed because I have watched several interviews with him and he never stops talking! lol.
Ok back to reading...

[Tracygirl]

I think Robb may have given us a clue when he said in an interview, I think the Fox interview, he said, I figured I would see her on the road. So was he driving looking for her van or did they have plans to meet up in Olympia? What if she had plans to visit with her friend and she was waiting around for Robb to show up? She could have called him at 6:45 to ask if he had left yet and to ask him to grab her phone she left. Thoughts?

[Wyks]

Sorry...I hit post too soon.  I forgot to respond to the question about the wine TG.  I would not have thought that she intended to drink it herself...with her son there with her.  I would have thought that she was taking it with her to Castle Rock or wherever.  Maybe she was in contact with him more than we have heard about...maybe he asked her to pick some up...okay...my mind is going to sleep again.  How do I send you a message?  I want to give you that name to see what you think.

I forgot to respond about the wine too, lab.    

Am thinking there's all sorts of possibilities regarding that wine.  We just don't know.  Here are some possibilities that I can think of. 

It may be that:

~ The wine was meant to be a gift for her step-father, to thank him for allowing them to be guests for the weekend. 

~ The wine was meant as a gift for a possible friend she may have been planning to see that night. 

~ If intended for herself, she may have:
...... needed a drink for later when she was no longer driving.
...... needed a drink right then and drank it while aimlessly driving around.

What we do NOT know is if she actually drank that wine at all.  Even tho half the bottle was gone when the bottle was found on the beach.  Half of it gone doesn't mean that she drank it.  She might have, we just don't know.  If she was meeting someone that night, on the beach or out in Olympia, the other person could have drank that wine.  Heck, she could have passed out from a concussion etc, or fell asleep on the beach without drinking the wine... and Azriel might have drank some of it.  It was there, if mom wasn't awake, he might have.  Kids have done it before. 

There's always the possibility that she intended to do away with Azriel (altho I don't believe that), and maybe herself following that, or to make it appear that she was dead.  She may have bought the wine to give to Azriel to make it easier, maybe drank some to give herself any needed oomph to go thru with any of those possible plans. 

We just don't know, and not sure we'll ever find out. 

[Wyks]

here is a link to the tire tracks...I don't know yet how to post a picture. 

http://www.king5.com/news/Search-to-continue-for-missing-Silverdale-mother-young-son--87648637.html?gallery=y&c=y&img=5

Is this the pic of the sand Wykes was speaking of?

I'm sorry but I can't make sense out of this picture Where is the water? Is it to the right of the pic or the upper left corner? What is that the police are looking at with what I think is a blue tarp? Is this the exact spot the van was found? In the pic with the van I bumped up, it doesn't show that pile of whatever so I am wondering where exactly this is.
It does look like more then one set of tire marks. I am trying to follow them but I am hitting whatever that long thing is. I am sorry, I cannot make this out. anyone?

It was later in the day, evidently, when this pic was taken.  Tide would have been at or near it's lowest, meaning way out from the beach.  Seems that where the sand is different colors to the right, darker.... is likely where the water line comes up to at full tide. 

[Wyks]

The weird thing tho.......   is that the van seems to have been out further in the water. 

See the tire tracks, they go up to what looks like the water line, where the sand gets darker.  One pic of the van has the back-end in the water, with a lot of beach in front of it. 

In the 911 call, we hear the nearest neighbor to the van say that the person who told them about the van being on the beach, had first seen it about high-tide.  The one making the 911 call didn't see it til later, when a good deal of the water had receded. 

In some news reports, I've heard/read that the first one who saw the van said it was nearly submerged. In the 911 call, I can't remember what words the caller used to describe what the one who first saw it said.  Whether he said that the man had told him "nearly" submerged, or "partially" submerged. 

We've heard it reported by LE that it had been at least partially submerged, with the water "up to the seats".  In other reports, LE has said that the water was no higher than "the top of the seats".

But in that pic with the red dot??  The one with the narrow roadway leading down at a steep incline?  The red dot is supposedly where the van was found, with very little beach that can be seen in that view.  The red dot seems to be wayyyyyyyyyyyyy the heck out in the water. 

My first thought was uh uh...    that's not the same area of beach that is shown in the other pic.  The one with the actual van parked in the water.  Doesn't even LOOK like the same beach to me. 

So I dunno what to think.

[Tracygirl]

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Nationwide-appeal-for-help-in-finding-missing-mom-and-son-87825797.html?gallery=y&c=y&img=2

sorry...about that...I am trying to figure out how to post the picture.  Here is the link to the van on the beach...I haven't seen this picture posted yet.

actually the one that I was talking about was this one→
http://www.king5.com/news/local/Nationwide-appeal-for-help-in-finding-missing-mom-and-son-87825797.html?gallery=y&c=y&img=1

bump

bump to compair

[Wyks]

Hello monkeys,

I'm having some difficulty keeping the details of this case straight.  I have some questions.

There was some mention of the fact that Rob couldn't use his phone because the charge had run out, but didn't he have Shatina's phone?

Does anyone know if the police are still looking for Shatina?  Or has the case been closed?  We haven't had any news reports lately right?

Not sure if this has been answered yet or not.  We don't know whether or not Robb actually had Shantina's phone.  She supposedly told him (he says anyway) that she asked him at the 6:45p call to please bring her phone, that she didn't have it.  She evidently did not know at that point of the call that Robb had actually already left the meeting.  I'm thinking she was likely thinking that the meeting had just ended and that he hadn't left town yet, that he could swing by their home and grab her phone. 

At some point after that in that phone call, he told her that the meeting had ended early and that he had already left, that he was ahead of her on the road.  Supposedly in that town between Olympia and Castle Rock, getting a repair on his bike.  She very likely was surprised to hear that, not realizing he had left town yet. 

So........ supposedly, Robb did not have her phone, at least from Shantina's point of view. 

I think where you may have read that he might have it, is from one of my posts saying that I think Robb actually took her phone.  It's part of one of my theories, that's all.  It's just a gut feeling I have, nowhere has that been mentioned/reported by anyone. 

We haven't heard it reported what phone Shantina called him from in the 4:10p phone calls, other than she was at home making those calls before she left.  They may have a house phone that she was calling him from at that time.  She may have used her cell phone at home to call him at the meeting.  I dunno. 

If she was using her cell phone from home to call him at the meeting, and if he didn't go home before hitting the road, then he didn't have her cell phone. 

The picture I have in my mind is that she forgot her cell phone at home, he went by the house before he left town, saw her phone and grabbed it.  If he did, he may or may not have told her at the 6:45p call that he had it. 

As for the news report, I haven't seen much reported lately.  Will check around other sites.  The last report I read was that LE had discontinued the search on water for Shantina.  They stopped the diving etc within just a couple of days from when they found the van.  I think when Azriel was found, they didn't look much after that for her.  On the water anyway.  IMO. 

[Tracygirl]

Wykes to me it looks like the same spot, just the tides are different. Where the van is parked is at the shoreline during low tide and the pic showing the path I think shows that area in high tide. Just a guess though

[Wyks]

I just wanted to know if anyone else had seen this. RS deleted this so here is the link through the google cache. In it he talks abt stopping at a winery to do some wine tasting. And this was approximately the week he would later say she had "relapsed." This whole blog that he had up & had deleted was abt his excursionons into different areas of the region & it is a log of those adventures w/ detailed descriptions of these places. In addition, you can see one picture where Shantina is sitting at a table w/ pizza and beer on it & he is snapping photos of her eating. For someone who knew she had an alcohol problem, he doesn't seem to concerned abt taking her along for pizza w/ beer & for wine tasting. I wonder why he removed this blog. Something stinks.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:UzrC6v5wK0IJ:robbsimmons.wordpress.com/2010/03/06/our-first-motophoto-trip-to-portland-the-gorge/+/search%3Fhl%3Den%26q%3D%2Bsite:robbsimmons.wordpress.com%2Brobbsimmons.wordpress.com&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

I agree, khheather, he doesn't seem too concerned about her drinking beer etc.  It's possible that she didn't drink that beer herself, that he may have been sitting next to her and drinking it.  That it just appears to be hers.  I don't see any other beverage for her tho.  So am thinking that it is hers. 

As for the wine tasting, I've read it different ways.  That they stopped to do some winetasting... and that he was doing the winetasting.   Guess either way could be taken that both were tasting the wine, or that he was alone. 

At any rate, what happens at a winetasting, typically is that one does not drink the wine, but merely swirls it around their mouth and spits it out in a cup that is provided.   Now, would a recovering alcoholic even swirl it around in their mouth?  Well I wouldn't if it were me, but everyone is different. 

[Wyks]

Excellent stuff you are discussing.

So we see how he paints a picture and then tries to paint over the mistakes..

 

The painting is a good way to put it!! 

[Wyks]

Azriels father speaks the day his son is found. Sad interview, you can tell he has regrets. It is a good thing he spoke to azriel not long before this happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRNwBAOnXjY

TG ~ thanks for this link! 

Remember what I posted about Robb's video before, about a person looking to the left or right during recall while speaking?  Azriel's father seems to be speaking to a person to the center right of how he is standing/sitting.  The only time he appears to look to the further right while speaking is when he is referring to the water, which seems to be to his far right.  Kind of looked over at when he referred to it. 

Seems the rest of the time when he wasn't looking down or at the one he was speaking to, during recall he glanced to the left many times.  Remembering actual facts, speaking the truth.  His facial expressions and tone of voice are congruent with his words too, IMO. 

   

[Wyks]

azriel told someone in a restaurant that his mommy "hit her head" i can look around for the link if you want.

I know and I don't quite understand why that is under estimated or assumed he was talking about his drunk mama. For all we know she hit her head on her van while entering or exiting.

Do you know when Robb made that flyer? what day it was?

Only other thing I can think of that Azriel may have meant by that statement ... is that maybe Shantina actually hit herself in the head.  Like when she realized she forgot her cell phone.  "Awwwww geeeeze louise", (smacking herself in the forehead).  I've done that.  lol 

If the 'accident' mentioned at times in some reports (other than tripping in the parking lot, and hitting the curb at least once at those store stops) was something involving the van.... she may have slightly bumped another car or another car slightly bumping her, maybe hitting her head on the car seat or sun visor. 

And then of course, the things you mentioned, TG. 

It really *could be* as innocent as any of that and folks may be taking Azriel's words all out of proportion.  Or not.  Who knows.  Sigh. 

[Wyks]

The items on the beach is what really got me thinking this case is something more then what it appears to be.

What are your thoughts about the things on the beach? 

[Wyks]

Azriels father speaks the day his son is found. Sad interview, you can tell he has regrets. It is a good thing he spoke to azriel not long before this happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRNwBAOnXjY

TG ~ thanks for this link! 

Remember what I posted about Robb's Jerry's video before, about a person looking to the left or right during recall while speaking?  Azriel's father seems to be speaking to a person to the center right of how he is standing/sitting.  The only time he appears to look to the further right while speaking is when he is referring to the water, which seems to be to his far right.  Kind of looked over at when he referred to it. 

Seems the rest of the time when he wasn't looking down or at the one he was speaking to, during recall he glanced to the left many times.  Remembering actual facts, speaking the truth.  His facial expressions and tone of voice are congruent with his words too, IMO. 

   

Grrrrrrr.. I meant to say Jerry, the ex-hubby.. not Robb. 

[Wyks]

I am reading your last post and I read,
"Surly they had to talk more" and I laughed because I have watched several interviews with him and he never stops talking! lol.
Ok back to reading...

     

Sooooo very true!