Shantina"'Kat" Smiley & 8 yo son Azriel, WA Missing 3/13/10(BODY OF BOY FOUND)

[labubske]

I sure don't like where this is going...but with no family pushing for more answers then LE is going to move on to other cases.  I don't think that they will entirely dismiss it and will act on any tips.  I disagree with Amanda...

I don't believe that someone woke up one day and decided to go nuts...I don't think that the doubts come from the media's portrayal...I believe that the theories that have been posted are all possibilities but that is just our way of trying to rule things out.  I do believe that there are inconsistencies in the things that Robb has stated...and those coming from Robb...not what is reported by the media...things that Robb has posted and then quickly withdrew.  I am not entirely convinced that Robb is at fault...but I do believe that all of the questions asked are warranted.  I can name numerous tragedies that have taken place without evil surrounding it...those events don't give off that feeling of there being more to it.  I am a strong believer in people tell on themselves without even knowing it...and those vibes can be felt...that is why reading body language is such a big thing and hand writing analysis...and so on.  Why would so many people being questioning this?  I feel vibes are being given off...and we are seeing that.  IMO

[Itaryl Moosee]

I don't want to rile anyone, and I'm posting this because it's just another theory to explore things. If the mod deems it to be off, please delete at will.

Imagine a trip to step-father was planned. Step-father and other family notified, plans for 6:45pm.

Imagine a change of plans during the 4:15pm call happened, and a "let's go camping in Boston Harbor" instead.

We'll take different vehicles/bike.

He rides to Castle Rock at 4:30pm, and leaves her to find her way around an area he already knew of in one of his shoots/adventure places near Lakewood.

At 9:00pm in Castle Rock, he starts to "worry" while she's in Olympia finding her way.

At midnight, he rides with the step-father to Olympia, checking rest stops and some time he contacts LE about accidents.

He returns to Castle Rock, or stays in Olympia, and he and the step-father get a few hours of sleep.

Now, who is to say that during those hours of "sleep" he didn't get on his motorcycle or the step-father's vehicle and drove to North Olympia and found her where he told her they would camp. He did his thing and then returned to "sleep" with step-father.

Anyway, that van went to rest near the water near or after high tide, or it had to have been totally submerged and not only to the seat level.

The not having a cell phone working, either hers or his, during those missing hours in which he "slept" is quite convenient. No police tracing him, or her, later on if things seem shaky.

He could've bought a charger at WalMart when he first went out looking for her in case she called him.

As to motive? Maybe she did not want to get married, for whatever reason? Maybe there is a life insurance policy somewhere? Maybe he was controlling?

In his webpage he is quoted saying that he is the PROUD father of two children, and step father to his fiance's son... he doesn't say he is proud of Azriel or calls him son. When he's been interviewed he has always referred to his two kids and himself as "our family", and doesn't say that to Shantina or her son.

As to Shantina asking for directions, she possibly didn't want to let anyone know she was looking for a lonely deserted place where someone could overhear her and follow her. Shantina and Azriel were dressed for camping, hiking shoes and all, not for a visit to the family.

This is only a theory only, and does not mean it is all 100% accurate. Just my thoughts to show that there was a window of opportunity for things to have happened during the few hours they had of sleep.

Even if this is all not possible and completely off, the coincidences in the case are staggering.

[Wyks]

This is one of the first stories written on this case.

http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2010/mar/14/search-is-on-for-missing-silverdale-mom-son/

OLYMPIA — The Thurston County Sheriff’s Department is searching for a Silverdale woman and her 8-year-old son after their minivan was found Sunday in Puget Sound.

The 29-year-old mother, identified as Shantina Smiley, and the 8-year-old boy, Azriel Carver, were driving Saturday from Silverdale to her stepfather’s home in Castle Rock in her boyfriend’s van. The van was discovered late Saturday beneath the water in North Gull Harbor north of Olympia.

No bodies were found in the car, Thurston County Undersheriff Brad Watkins told KOMO-TV, and there were no signs of foul play. The doors of the car were open and her intact wallet was inside, but not her purse, Mealy said.

Investigators say that Smiley left Silverdale at 5 p.m. At 6:45 p.m., she called her boyfriend from a pay phone asking him to get her cell phone, but he didn’t answer, said Thurston County Sheriff Lt. Chris MealyDetectives found a receipt at a local business that places her in northeast Olympia at 7:55 p.m..
Law enforcement officials are treating the case as suspicious. Mealy said that Smiley, a portrait photographer, has no history of mental illness or any other problems.

Investigators conducted boat and beach searches, but came up with nothing. Deputies also are checking with neighbors.


Read more: http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2010/mar/14/search-is-on-for-missing-silverdale-mom-son/#ixzz0lUZN33po

So at first it was being reported that Robb didn't speak to Shantina but they knew she was asking him to bring her cell phone. I would guess from this she left a message for him. So how did Robb tell her he was fixing his bike if it was a v/m and he didn't talk to her? So was this bad reporting or was this version 3 of the same detail?

Is this when the items on the beach were found? During this beach search?

Sloppy reporting, or they just didn't know yet what Robb said later.  And of course, with Robb's ever-changing stories, who knows if he embellished.  He said later that there were TWO calls made from Shantina at about 4.10p, and TWO calls made at about 6.45p.  The first one at 6.45p, he explained, he didn't catch.  She supposedly called him back, and he says that's when they spoke about the rest of what we've heard from him. 

[Wyks]

I sure don't like where this is going...but with no family pushing for more answers then LE is going to move on to other cases.  I don't think that they will entirely dismiss it and will act on any tips.  I disagree with Amanda...

I don't believe that someone woke up one day and decided to go nuts...I don't think that the doubts come from the media's portrayal...I believe that the theories that have been posted are all possibilities but that is just our way of trying to rule things out.  I do believe that there are inconsistencies in the things that Robb has stated...and those coming from Robb...not what is reported by the media...things that Robb has posted and then quickly withdrew.  I am not entirely convinced that Robb is at fault...but I do believe that all of the questions asked are warranted.  I can name numerous tragedies that have taken place without evil surrounding it...those events don't give off that feeling of there being more to it.  I am a strong believer in people tell on themselves without even knowing it...and those vibes can be felt...that is why reading body language is such a big thing and hand writing analysis...and so on.  Why would so many people being questioning this?  I feel vibes are being given off...and we are seeing that.  IMO

I wholeheartedly agree TG! Can it be that some in the family are 'strongly' against LE looking more closely into matters?  Dunno.  Just can't figure why else LE would let this go when at least one investigator seemed to be questioning things. 
 

[Wyks]

Good points made, Itaryl. 

LE has said that the van was submerged 'up to the seats'.  At another time, they said 'to the top of the seats'.  So we know it was at least that submerged.  I've heard it reported by the witnesses 'nearly submerged', and 'partially submerged'.  Am supposing that first witness who saw the van on the beach and told the nearest neighbor (who then called 911), the first one saw it in deeper water, as hide tide was at 6.09a.  By the time the nearest neighbor saw it several hours later, the water had receded to a lower level. 

Robb seems controlling.. to me and many others.  Just by the way he says things, etc. 

And yes, I agree, the coincidences are staggering!  For that reason alone I think the investigation by LE ought to continue.  Am thinking their hands may be tied tho, if the family is saying 'no'.  Am not sure tho. 

[Tracygirl]

Perhaps the family doesn't want it discovered if this is a murder suicide. You know it could very well still be. We have her asking to speak to her ex, she had her son speak to his father. She could have been tying up lose ends and making amends. I don't think so though. But maybe her family fears that because her mother commited suicide. They don't want the national attention to be on her for it. I can understand it if that is the case.

Wykes, In the article it states that is what investigators told them, not what Robb said. Could be LE just gave one side of the story and didn't tell of the supposed 2nd call? Hadn't heard about 2 calls at 6:45 though.

Itaryl Moosee that is a thought too. There are a ton of could be's that is why I am surprised this is heading where it is heading. Although I still say, investigators have only said they presume her to be drowned, not about accidentally or if she was killed. I will keep hoping that investigators are keeping all options open until people and circumstances can be ruled out.

Does anyone know if any type of forensic testing was done on any of the articles found on the beach or on the van? I read this question on Sky's site but didn't get a chance to read the answer.

[Tracygirl]

Wykes I don't think a family can determine if an investigation can continue or not, especially given a child died as a result of what happened that night. I am sure it is like every other case too, LE is not giving the family too many details of what they have or don't have. I am going to have faith in the investigators and say they are not going to show their cards. I am surprised however they are presuming she is drowned given they haven't found a body. Again they are not saying this is fact, just the evidence or lack there of has pointed to that conclusion. If you think about it, if thought is this has been set up to look like a drowning, then that means the person did their job.

[labubske]

Here is video that I found interesting...it includes Mark Fuhrman discussing this case.  He questions what really happened that night...and mentions a secondary reason for Shantina being in Olympia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlChA-Q2fh4

[Itaryl Moosee]

Here is video that I found interesting...it includes Mark Fuhrman discussing this case.  He questions what really happened that night...and mentions a secondary reason for Shantina being in Olympia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlChA-Q2fh4

I can't see the movie because of my old browser. Could you write what was said? What was his secondary reason version?

Thanks.
 

[Edward]

Happy to hear that Verman speaks..
I would have had more respect for him if he would have focused on O.J. son.

Anyways,, This situation is out of my area to search and the people involved irritate me..

Good Luck

[labubske]

Here is video that I found interesting...it includes Mark Fuhrman discussing this case.  He questions what really happened that night...and mentions a secondary reason for Shantina being in Olympia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlChA-Q2fh4

I can't see the movie because of my old browser. Could you write what was said? What was his secondary reason version?

Thanks.
 

Sure.  Mark starts it out saying that this is an odd case with so many suspicions surrounding it (not exact quote).  He then lists some of the suspicions...left cell phone at home, this area wasn't in the wilderness should not have been so lost, he is suspicious of where the van was found and the condition of it.  He believes that there may be a secondary purpose for her being in Olympia...maybe meeting someone...he said if she was so lost why not call the step-dad, since this is where she was heading to get accurate directions.  This video actually reports that she called Robb from the Williams home...so not sure about that...but he said why not call step-dad instead of even Robb...step-dad would have the accurate directions.  He also says that the reports state that she was not drunk or high but nervous...so, he suggests that maybe she was preoccupied and nervous about meeting someone...her anxiety level was probably elevated.  Mention of purposely leaving cell phone at home to avoid giving away her location. 

[Edward]

WRONG.. Williams witness account states she was SCARED when he let her use his phone.
I already pointed out who she should have been calling instead of her grandparents. It was not logical to call them.

This is how stories get turned and twisted.

[labubske]

WRONG.. Williams witness account states she was SCARED when he let her use his phone.
I already pointed out who she should have been calling instead of her grandparents. It was not logical to call them.

This is how stories get turned and twisted.

yes, Edward you are correct.  I think that they were talking about reports from some of the other people...they may have reported nervous, though she was actually scared.  No, it made no sense at all to call them...none at all. 

[labubske]

This is a detailed map of I-5, Silverdale to Castle Rock (Toledo-Vader Rd is seen(this is where Robb reports that he stopped for a quick repair on his bike).  Robb states that he checked out rest areas along the way when he was searching for Shantina and Azriel.









I posted a portion of this previously...but it didn't show correctly...I figured it out now.

[Tracygirl]

Here is video that I found interesting...it includes Mark Fuhrman discussing this case.  He questions what really happened that night...and mentions a secondary reason for Shantina being in Olympia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlChA-Q2fh4

Thanks for posting. That was interesting. His thinking about the cell phone and the corn dog shows her preoccupation with something that maybe was making her nervous and she was frazzled. Then the cell phone having the ability to ping someone. I just think she forgot it and it makes sense to say it could have been because she was frazzled.  I read she was going to work that day, then would pick up Azriel.  After that I am sure she went home to get everything together for the weekend. Sounds hectic.
The corn dog I have to say is odd. She had said she was pulling off the freeway because Azriel was hungry, that was at 6:45, the corn dog purchase was at 9:00, 2 1/4 hours later and she forgot it. Was it for her? The report is she tripped and fell in the parking lot, was she feeling ill and that is why she left behind the corn dog? The thought of eating was not sitting well with her? If it was for Azriel I have a young boy, if he is hungry and was planning on eating a corn dog, there is no way I could leave without it, unless he felt ill. I don't know though, neither one looks sick to me in the video's.

I really do believe there is more to this then what is being told. The story doesn't fit. I am not sure if any part of this case that you can say makes sense. The phone, the charger, the calls, being "lost", the relaps, leaving food, buying wine, the route in olympia, the place the van was found, the damage to the van, the wallet being in the van, the purse and over night bags not being there,  the items found on the beach, Azriel being found dead, Shantina not being found dead or alive... My goodness nothing makes any sense. Granted we are never told everything but usually we can gather enough information that something fits.

[Tracygirl]

Robb was way past her on the road wasn't he? That too seems odd given he says she had to give him the address. He must have known the general area though.

[Tracygirl]

Does anyone know where exactly on Fox Island Azriels body was found? Was it the south west, south east, north end of the island? I can't seem to find it.

[Edward]

labubske

That is a very nice map you posted.. Great for research on many cases.  what is the link to that again ?



The Corn Dog would have to be for the child.mo.
Although I agree no child would leave without it.

[Nut44x4]

 The boy's body was found Thursday on a beach at the south end of Fox Island
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011393025_missing20m.html

Does that help?

[Edward]

Does anyone know where exactly on Fox Island Azriels body was found? Was it the south west, south east, north end of the island? I can't seem to find it.

Page 3 of this thread.. 

The body was found Thursday afternoon on the shore of Fox Island, near the 1040 block of Paiute Road, said Nanette Tatom, spokesperson for the Gig Harbor Fire Department.

Lt. Chris Mealy of the Thurston County sheriff's office said tidal currents could have carried a body from the Budd Inlet area, where 8-year-old Azriel Carver went missing late Saturday, to Fox Island over a period of days.

"Yes, absolutely," he said, when asked about the possibility.






How many bodies have floated from where the van was found to this location over the years >> ???? Is there a history of this happening in the past ? I have looked and not found any.

How could Lt. Chris possibly be so sure ??
Why didn't mom land in the same place ?? as they were together .. RIGHT ?


The lack of logic by the professionals is astounding to me...
Something must be in the drinking water up there in Olympia.
I do remember one beer company suggesting that in there advertising a long time ago..
OLY.. " Its the water, that makes Olympia beer "
 

Just have the detectives call me and lets start over.