Natalee Case Discussion #833 6/2/10 - 6/4/10

[yuknomenot]

Considering I can't decide for myself where Paulus currently resides, it might be interesting to see who else was playing at the table with that psycho freak of nature and poor Stephany.

[Tamikosmom]

Directly from Nancy Grace's lips last night....as we all know -----

GRACE: You know -- you know, Nicole, I thought you were going to ask an obvious question, which a lot of people have already called in with. Will this affect the Aruban prosecution?

I can tell you the answer to that is no. If an angel descended from heaven and told them sitting on a stack of bibles that they were an eyewitness to the murder of Natalee Holloway, Aruban prosecutors are not going to do anything. It doesn`t matter.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1006/02/ng.01.html

AMEN!

[Cappuccino]

Lima (Peru.com) .- The Netherlands citizen Joran Andreas Petrus Van Der Sloot (23) killed with blows to the face and head to Tatiana Flores Stephany Ramirez (21), to finally break his neck and rob the $ 5,000 which earned him an Uruguayan playing cards.
 
The newspaper 'Trome' said the boy died, according to the autopsy, cervical trauma, caused by blunt item. She was the daughter of Ricardo Flores Chipoco, champion of the Inca Trail in 1991.
 
She met the subject in the international poker tournament being held at the casino 'Atlantic City', in the Avenues and Benavides Pardo. On the evening of Saturday 29 May saw the couple playing cards in that local.
 
On the morning of Sunday, both retired and went to the hotel 'Tac' Avenue Republic of Panama 6160, where he was staying abroad.
 
At 5:20 am, Adeli Manchero Abad, employee housing, told police he saw the girl and the stranger enter the room 309.
 
At 8 am, the subject left the hotel and bought two cups of coffee at a local supermarket. He returned to the room at 8:40 and retired with a rucksack and hand luggage. "Be right back," he reportedly told an employee.
 
The murderer approached the Jeep, Cherokee, A1B-533 plate, black, Stephanie Flores and then left in the passage Jorge Chavez, Surco. The crime was allegedly committed after a heated argument between the couple.

http://www.peru.com/noticias/policial20100603/100163/Holandes-mato-a-golpes-a-Stephany-Flores-segun-investigaciones-de-la-Policia-

Wait, this reads very confusing.  This SOB was in the states?  Is this confirmed?   Atlantic City, NJ....my home state OMG     I missed running into him by 3 weeks, was just there for my daughter's college grad, maybe that was for the best because I couldn't guarantee what I would have been tempted to do if I saw his smug face.

[wingnut]

I think the American media that continues to interview RenHO should know what she's saying about them.  :monkeywink:

She will just claim it is the booze talking again.

[crazybabyborg]

Good morning fellow Monkeys :}

This is the first time I have posted in this thread but I have read here frequently. I think it makes sense that Killem and Den Scoot is heading as fast as he can to Suriname to confess to the murder of Natalee Holloway. It would be a great deal more pleasant serving time in an Aruban/Dutch prison than it would be in Peru where the conditions are horrific in comparison. If he reaches Suriname I can imagine he will be extradited to his homeland expeditiously. Of course he could always fall on his sword and save us all the trouble, we can but hope. After serving a short time in an Aruba/Dutch prison he would probably be released and I don't see the Aruban/Dutch authorities making much of a move to authorize extradition to Chile.

I hope they catch him before he gets to a place of sanctuary and send him post haste right back to Chile where he will suffer for the rest of his miserable life.

He's already done that 3 times....they do not care and will not take it seriously. There is not enough evidence...blah blah blahhh
Aruba will never prosecute him...for anything, ever.

You got that right! I think of Renho as the voice of Aruba because they all lie with a smile and think everybody is so stupid that they don't know the difference.

I'm just amazed that anyone has the cajones to interject any doubt into Joran's guilt in the face of these circumstances, and that includes Taco Greaser.

[Northern Rose]

Joran van der Sloot (PICTURES): Five Things You Need To Know

NEW YORK (CBS)  Who is Joran van der Sloot?

The Dutchman who has long been under suspicion in the 2005 disappearance of American Natalee Holloway, is now being hotly pursued by authorities in South America, after police in Peru declared him the prime suspect in the murder of 21-year-old Stephany Flores.


PICTURES: Joran van der Sloot

Flores' body was found Sunday in a Lima hotel room registered in van der Sloot's name, authorities said. Van der Sloot has since fled to Chile, according to officials there.

Here are five things you should know about Joran van der Sloot and the trouble that's trailing him:

         1. van der Sloot's father, Paulus, was a prominent judge on the Dutch Caribbean island of Aruba, where    Natalee Holloway disappeared. Paulus van der Sloot died of a heart attack at 57 in February, 2010, while playing tennis.

         2. van der sloot, who's 22, was arrested twice but later released for lack of evidence in the Holloway disappearance, although he is still considered the prime suspect. She was last seen leaving a bar with van der Sloot on the final night of a high school trip.

         3. van der Sloot confessed on several occasions to disposing of Holloway's body in Aruba. But prosecutors in Aruba have said his statements were "not credible," and in one case "held together by lies and fantasy."

         4. van der Sloot was in Peru for a poker tournament, according to Peruvian police.

         5. The father of Stephany Flores, Ricardo Flores, has been a racecar driver and political candidate in Peru.

Also -- the alleged murder of Stephany Flores in Lima occurred May 30, 2010, exactly five years to the day since Natalee Holloway disappeared.

Joran van der Sloot's lawyer, Joe Tacopina, said his client "has been falsely accused of murder once before. The fact is he wears a bull's-eye on his back now and he is a quote-unquote 'usual suspect' when it comes to allegations of foul play."


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20006685-504083.html

[Nut44x4]

http://www.24ora.com/internacional-mainmenu-6/18316-abogado-di-joran-van-der-sloot-na-hulanda-no-sa-di-dje.html

http://www.24ora.com/wowo-di-pueblo-mainmenu-49/18311-kico-dia-30-di-mei-tin-di-haber-cu-joran-van-der-sloot.html

http://www.24ora.com/internacional-mainmenu-6/18303-autoridadnan-peruano-ta-duna-confirmacion-di-sospecho-di-joran-vd-sloot.html

[BUCKSHOT]

I had never thought about this, until reading a few pages back:

Can Aruba arrange for an arrest of JVDS, based on new facts about 2005 case, and bring him back to Aruba to serve time?
Another words, the murder happened there first so they could get first crack at prosecuting him.

[Cappuccino]

Directly from Nancy Grace's lips last night....as we all know -----

GRACE: You know -- you know, Nicole, I thought you were going to ask an obvious question, which a lot of people have already called in with. Will this affect the Aruban prosecution?

I can tell you the answer to that is no. If an angel descended from heaven and told them sitting on a stack of bibles that they were an eyewitness to the murder of Natalee Holloway, Aruban prosecutors are not going to do anything. It doesn`t matter.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1006/02/ng.01.html

AMEN!

Aint that the truth!

[Northern Rose]

Lima (Peru.com) .- The Netherlands citizen Joran Andreas Petrus Van Der Sloot (23) killed with blows to the face and head to Tatiana Flores Stephany Ramirez (21), to finally break his neck and rob the $ 5,000 which earned him an Uruguayan playing cards.
 
The newspaper 'Trome' said the boy died, according to the autopsy, cervical trauma, caused by blunt item. She was the daughter of Ricardo Flores Chipoco, champion of the Inca Trail in 1991.
 
She met the subject in the international poker tournament being held at the casino 'Atlantic City', in the Avenues and Benavides Pardo. On the evening of Saturday 29 May saw the couple playing cards in that local.
 
On the morning of Sunday, both retired and went to the hotel 'Tac' Avenue Republic of Panama 6160, where he was staying abroad.
 
At 5:20 am, Adeli Manchero Abad, employee housing, told police he saw the girl and the stranger enter the room 309.
 
At 8 am, the subject left the hotel and bought two cups of coffee at a local supermarket. He returned to the room at 8:40 and retired with a rucksack and hand luggage. "Be right back," he reportedly told an employee.
 
The murderer approached the Jeep, Cherokee, A1B-533 plate, black, Stephanie Flores and then left in the passage Jorge Chavez, Surco. The crime was allegedly committed after a heated argument between the couple.

http://www.peru.com/noticias/policial20100603/100163/Holandes-mato-a-golpes-a-Stephany-Flores-segun-investigaciones-de-la-Policia-

Wait, this reads very confusing.  This SOB was in the states?  Is this confirmed?   Atlantic City, NJ....my home state OMG     I missed running into him by 3 weeks, was just there for my daughter's college grad, maybe that was for the best because I couldn't guarantee what I would have been tempted to do if I saw his smug face.

No Capp.  I believe that is the name of the Casino that the Tournament to raise money for Autistic children was held in Peru where he met Stephany.  She won $5,000 at the tournament which Peru media is claiming that Joran stole when he fled after he beat her to death.

[crazybabyborg]

I had never thought about this, until reading a few pages back:

Can Aruba arrange for an arrest of JVDS, based on new facts about 2005 case, and bring him back to Aruba to serve time?
Another words, the murder happened there first so they could get first crack at prosecuting him.

I don't know, but IMO, Aruba wouldn't choose to do it. Aruba will never do anything to Joran. Here's the official posture od Aruba:

Oh! We're very concerned and sorry for Stephany's family. Peru should pursue justice in this case with the evidence they have, just as we vigorously did. We just had no evidence.

Makes me want to puke!

[texasmom]

http://www.diario.aw/2010/06/joran-van-der-sloot-atrobe/



Papiamentu translation:

curpa by stephany flores was pata- claw by golpi

publication: diahuebs, 3 june 2010.

categoria: general

oranjestad (aan): joran van der sloot owing to hinca her self in one chasm increible! past owing to become the sospechoso principal by one asesinato cruel in one hotel at lima, peru. quite person is ask con the is attain coin before viaha all caminda so? the contesta can is, in the same torneo at cual past owing to participa! the is play quite in poker online, y also participa in torneonan. diaranzon morning owing to come attain the curpa without life by her girlfriend stephany flores-ramirez, that was golpia serious. although still not have neither result by autopsia, police owing to revela cu the victima had very quite golpi y rasca at her cara, y some part by the curpa. the not have neither injury by hinca. the had hematoma strong at her leg y brazonan, indicando cu past owing to fight cu her aggressor, first cu past owing to die. the victima owing to worde attain throw abao, one bit by near. the double-bed had the colchon drag by near, y the camber was all reboltea. also they owing to attain several cup by plastic using, ticketnan by casino atlantic city, y more. stephany had one polo-shirt dress, y her panty. but all cos is seems by indica cu owing to attain remainder by semen, although this have to worde confirma door by test forensico. at 2005 also, joran van der sloot owing to aparece on the fechanan ey cu golpi at her curpa. kizas esey is the motibo cu the is huy afresh, before busca form for her golpinan here cura before come to anend?

thanks to everyone for all the media updates.....would someone please translate this translation for me..my head spins every time I try to read the translations

This is my "loose" translation of the translation:

It's incredible that Joran has gotten himself in more chit, the prime suspect in another murder...

Many are asking....WHERE does he get all the money for these travels??????

The victim was beaten severely...not stabbed...she had other injuries to her leg etc..and the room was a mess...the (mattress?) on the floor...indicating that she fought with her attacker...

Used plastic cups and tickets from the casino were collected...and more...

The victim was wearing a polo shirtdress and panties...

Indications are that semen was collected also, but forensic testing will determine that.

I think the last part is questioning the motive for the crime...did he beat her to death for her money so he could eat?

AGAIN...very loose translation

If someone else understands more about it, I welcome your interpretation.

[Northern Rose]

Wide operating in northern Chile to look for Joran van der Sloot

The prefect of police investigations and Parinacota Arica region in northern Chile, Douglas Rodriguez, told Radio Netherlands that the Netherlands citizen Joran Van Der Sloot Andreas, 23, was admitted on May 31 at Chilean territory since Peru, at the border of Chacalluta.

Peruvian police alerted the police investigation of the leak to the citizens Netherlands Chile, because it is the prime suspect in the murder of the young Stephany Flores 21, daughter of Ricardo Flores, known businessman and Peruvian racer.

Following the request of the Peruvian police, the Chilean PDI operating a large home in the northern part of the country to find the whereabouts of the young "we are working under an application for location and whereabouts of Peru's national police managed through Interpol.

Police Coordination
"We have deployed a police presence in residential and hotels to meet the request of the police, being charged with murder in Peru," said Douglas Rodriguez, prefect inspector XV Arica y Parinacota Police Region, a position equivalent to equivalent to chief regional research.

The official said the correspondent of Radio Cooperativa in Chile in Arica that the procedure, to be located abroad, is to inform the Interpol Santiago, who informed his counterpart in Lima, then undertake legal action at the Supreme Court Foreign Ministry to enforce the international arrest warrant. At the same time court officials said Chile would have to follow the same procedure to finally arrest warrant issued by the relevant since they could not catch him now.

Also, the mayor said they are working in coordination with the police investigation of the first, second and third regions of Chile, which are below the XV, and are performing the same duties to the border checkpoint and Visviri Chungará with Bolivia.

Chilean police are looking for Van der Sloot at hostels and hotels. The news of his alleged suicide, disseminated through the social network Twitter, were denied.

Taxi drivers
According to Radio Cooperativa in talks with local taxi drivers who may have attended Van der Sloot on arrival at the Chilean territory, has so far not been possible to locate or confirm the possible understanding of the Spanish language by the defendant. However, the police assumed that it "means something", because otherwise it would be more difficult to move from one place to another.

Van Der Sloot had come to Peru from Colombia on May 14, staying at a hotel in the Miraflores district of Lima in the capital, to participate in an international poker tournament. Witnesses say the young stranger to the victim entered the hotel on May 30, and from that actually found the girl dead.

Joran contacted his lawyer
In any case it seems that Joran tried to contact his lawyer, Joseph Tacopina, the United States, as confirmed by a lawyer.

When asked, counsel Netherlands, Geert-Jan Knoops, said that Chile is likely to extradite the suspect to Peru. The International Criminal law specialist believes that the suspect will be charged with manslaughter. In his view, the Netherlands will not ask Chile to extradite Joran. Counsel concluded that, if tried and convicted, Van der Sloot should serve his sentence in Peru.

According to Peruvian media and incredibly, also the alleged murderer of the American girl, Natalee Holloway, who disappeared in Aruba, has something in common with Michael Jackson. His lawyer Joseph Tacopina was who successfully defended in the case of Natalee, when he was still a minor. Tacopina, who was also left free of all blame the "king of pop" in the controversial case of child abuse.

With the collaboration of Arica correspondent of Radio Cooperativa de Santiago de Chile

http://www.rnw.nl/espanol/article/amplio-operativo-en-el-norte-de-chile-para-buscar-a-joran-van-der-sloot

[2NJSons_Mom]

Lima (Peru.com) .- The Netherlands citizen Joran Andreas Petrus Van Der Sloot (23) killed with blows to the face and head to Tatiana Flores Stephany Ramirez (21), to finally break his neck and rob the $ 5,000 which earned him an Uruguayan playing cards.
 
The newspaper 'Trome' said the boy died, according to the autopsy, cervical trauma, caused by blunt item. She was the daughter of Ricardo Flores Chipoco, champion of the Inca Trail in 1991.
 
She met the subject in the international poker tournament being held at the casino 'Atlantic City', in the Avenues and Benavides Pardo. On the evening of Saturday 29 May saw the couple playing cards in that local.
 
On the morning of Sunday, both retired and went to the hotel 'Tac' Avenue Republic of Panama 6160, where he was staying abroad.
 
At 5:20 am, Adeli Manchero Abad, employee housing, told police he saw the girl and the stranger enter the room 309.
 
At 8 am, the subject left the hotel and bought two cups of coffee at a local supermarket. He returned to the room at 8:40 and retired with a rucksack and hand luggage. "Be right back," he reportedly told an employee.
 
The murderer approached the Jeep, Cherokee, A1B-533 plate, black, Stephanie Flores and then left in the passage Jorge Chavez, Surco. The crime was allegedly committed after a heated argument between the couple.

http://www.peru.com/noticias/policial20100603/100163/Holandes-mato-a-golpes-a-Stephany-Flores-segun-investigaciones-de-la-Policia-

Wait, this reads very confusing.  This SOB was in the states?  Is this confirmed?   Atlantic City, NJ....my home state OMG     I missed running into him by 3 weeks, was just there for my daughter's college grad, maybe that was for the best because I couldn't guarantee what I would have been tempted to do if I saw his smug face.

The hotel in Lima, Peru is called Atlantic City. 

My first attempt to respond got lost, and I got locked out for a few.

[Northern Rose]

"So you're the best friend of Joran ...?"

How my phone number so quickly able to find out I still not clear. Her voice was hurried, relieved, a little proud. "So you're the best friend of Joran van der Sloot?" Even before I could say anything on, informed the Peruvian journalist that I live every moment in the broadcast can be drawn.

With difficulty I interrupt the quickening gasping young lady. "I señor van der Sloot had never met, I let her know. Finally she stopped, if only for a moment. "But you did years of research into Joran van der Sloot, right?". By the hope her voice trembling. What is it annoying to have to disappoint people. "I'm sorry ma'am. My knowledge of this case is from Wikipedia level, I'm just like you are a journalist, for the En-Oh-Es. No, not in Amsterdam close. In Hilversum. Yes, Heel-ber-Soem. The high voice of the journalist is almost hysterically, just a few seconds for the broadcast and its scope is just completely evaporated!

After some incomprehensible stutter, I understand that a direct report no longer contains. It is clearly my fault. The journalist now sounds reproachful, angry, disappointed, if I had been friends with Joran, I went live! She connects with me by someone whose name I can not understand. Now begins my patience running out, I should like them as promptly as possible are in Peru! The last few hours, I called deaf with Peruvian officers, police generals and their assistants and of course many Peruvian colleagues. Where the body is found, by whom and when? Interpol is turned on and can anyone confirm that there are video images of Joran and his potential victim?

How does a bubble
An hour earlier, I have somewhere someone my mobile number. And that is again passed. First called RPP, a radio station in Lima. We shared information and numbers, and made an appointment. When told I live in Spanish something about Joran, general information, nothing special. In return, they switched my phone with the press conference by the police. I listened to them directly, a good deal. Not a minute after the press conference called the excited journalist. No idea what television, radio or newspaper she was. She had just heard me on RPP ...

And she was not alone. As eagerly as I need information from Peru, the Peruvians are so desperate to find Spanish speakers for their broadcasts. How does a bubble, informing journalists journalists. Suddenly I am, foreign editor of the journal with a focus NOS Latin America, "experto" on Joran van der Sloot. I do it because something in. I am now the proud owner of a bunch of mobile phone numbers of police generals, investigators and colleagues in Peru.

Bedtime I turn my phone off for safety. Not everyone in Peru is still the time difference, I fear. And indeed, when I woke the next morning, I have three calls from Peru. A reporter left a message on my voicemail. "Hola Señor De Vries ..."

http://weblogs.nos.nl/buitenlandredactie/2010/06/03/dus-u-bent-beste-vriend-van-joran/

[Cappuccino]

Tks NorthernRose - I was doing double takes on that one LOL

The above article "charged with manslaughter"  I am not sure how that equates to our criminal code but at first blush that doesnt seem right.

[crazybabyborg]

Jumping ahead, but I'm fantasizing about Joran in court facing justice. Beth has far more grace than I do, but if I were Beth, I'd move heaven and earth to be there. I'd want to sit next to Stephany's father and represent Natalee. I'd want Joran to see me in that place where justice comes his way. He hates her so much and blames her for taking away his lifestyle prior to killing Natalee.

Beth will handle this better than I would. I have such admiration for her!

[thirdstrike]

Hello everyone!! 

So, they still haven't caught this clown yet?  He's no criminal mastermind or anything.  You'd think he'd be so oblivious to the fact he's now being hunted, and simply wander into a police station asking for directions to the closest Casino.  What's taking so frickin' long?

Seriously though, this guy needs to be taken off the streets ASAP.  The more I've been reading, the more I really do believe he's killed more in between the 2005 dates and now. Maybe one should research unsolved murders on May 30th of each year...

[crazybabyborg]

Hello everyone!! 

So, they still haven't caught this clown yet?  He's no criminal mastermind or anything.  You'd think he'd be so oblivious to the fact he's now being hunted, and simply wander into a police station asking for directions to the closest Casino.  What's taking so frickin' long?

Seriously though, this guy needs to be taken off the streets ASAP.  The more I've been reading, the more I really do believe he's killed more in between the 2005 dates and now. Maybe one should research unsolved murders on May 30th of each year...

Hi third! I've thought the same thing. Aruba and Joran supporters have blood on their hands, and remarkably STILL continue to twist and turn the circumstances and facts.

[thirdstrike]

Wide operating in northern Chile to look for Joran van der Sloot

The prefect of police investigations and Parinacota Arica region in northern Chile, Douglas Rodriguez, told Radio Netherlands that the Netherlands citizen Joran Van Der Sloot Andreas, 23, was admitted on May 31 at Chilean territory since Peru, at the border of Chacalluta.

Peruvian police alerted the police investigation of the leak to the citizens Netherlands Chile, because it is the prime suspect in the murder of the young Stephany Flores 21, daughter of Ricardo Flores, known businessman and Peruvian racer.

Following the request of the Peruvian police, the Chilean PDI operating a large home in the northern part of the country to find the whereabouts of the young "we are working under an application for location and whereabouts of Peru's national police managed through Interpol.

Police Coordination
"We have deployed a police presence in residential and hotels to meet the request of the police, being charged with murder in Peru," said Douglas Rodriguez, prefect inspector XV Arica y Parinacota Police Region, a position equivalent to equivalent to chief regional research.

The official said the correspondent of Radio Cooperativa in Chile in Arica that the procedure, to be located abroad, is to inform the Interpol Santiago, who informed his counterpart in Lima, then undertake legal action at the Supreme Court Foreign Ministry to enforce the international arrest warrant. At the same time court officials said Chile would have to follow the same procedure to finally arrest warrant issued by the relevant since they could not catch him now.

Also, the mayor said they are working in coordination with the police investigation of the first, second and third regions of Chile, which are below the XV, and are performing the same duties to the border checkpoint and Visviri Chungará with Bolivia.

Chilean police are looking for Van der Sloot at hostels and hotels. The news of his alleged suicide, disseminated through the social network Twitter, were denied.

Taxi drivers
According to Radio Cooperativa in talks with local taxi drivers who may have attended Van der Sloot on arrival at the Chilean territory, has so far not been possible to locate or confirm the possible understanding of the Spanish language by the defendant. However, the police assumed that it "means something", because otherwise it would be more difficult to move from one place to another.

Van Der Sloot had come to Peru from Colombia on May 14, staying at a hotel in the Miraflores district of Lima in the capital, to participate in an international poker tournament. Witnesses say the young stranger to the victim entered the hotel on May 30, and from that actually found the girl dead.

Joran contacted his lawyer
In any case it seems that Joran tried to contact his lawyer, Joseph Tacopina, the United States, as confirmed by a lawyer.

When asked, counsel Netherlands, Geert-Jan Knoops, said that Chile is likely to extradite the suspect to Peru. The International Criminal law specialist believes that the suspect will be charged with manslaughter. In his view, the Netherlands will not ask Chile to extradite Joran. Counsel concluded that, if tried and convicted, Van der Sloot should serve his sentence in Peru.

According to Peruvian media and incredibly, also the alleged murderer of the American girl, Natalee Holloway, who disappeared in Aruba, has something in common with Michael Jackson. His lawyer Joseph Tacopina was who successfully defended in the case of Natalee, when he was still a minor. Tacopina, who was also left free of all blame the "king of pop" in the controversial case of child abuse.

With the collaboration of Arica correspondent of Radio Cooperativa de Santiago de Chile

http://www.rnw.nl/espanol/article/amplio-operativo-en-el-norte-de-chile-para-buscar-a-joran-van-der-sloot

One can only hope and pray he spends the balance of his days here on Earth in a Peruvian jail.  I hear it's no Club Med in there.  Very nasty conditions.  A guy like him there?  He wouldn't last a year before somebody off's him for a pack of smokes...