Natalee Case Discussion #834 6/4/10 - 6/6/10

[Port Valerie]

Klaas, you were OUT? Well, okay -- guess you had to go buy the jumper cables. G'nite. Thanks for the work you do.

[crazybabyborg]

It will be interesting to see if urine gets a high profile lawyer from aruba/anita connections or if he is left to the 65 duds that represent the less fortunate in Peru........
That should go a long way to weight urine's fate in the Peruvian justice system.....

I think they said a few pages back that the Dutch Embassy (or something like that) will be providing Joran with an attorney.

Klaas? I believe that was clarified to state that the embassy would provide assistance with health issues but not with an atty. That's the last I read, anyway.

Then CBB you are likely correct.  I was skimmng through very quickly trying to catch up.  I was gone for 4 hours, did ya miss me?  Time to call it a night now!

I ALWAYS miss you!! And for whatever it's worth, I noticed you were gone! Sleep well and God Bless!

[pinkbanana]

What a difference a week makes! It was about this time last Sunday ... If only Stephany hadn't gone with him.

It's been a CRAZY week for me...the 29th is my Grandpop's 13th anniversary of death, 30th Natalee's 5th anniversary and now Stephany's, June 4th is my best friend/sister in-law 15th yr anniversary.
My emotions have been all over the place this week.

pb

[Port Valerie]

What a difference a week makes! It was about this time last Sunday ... If only Stephany hadn't gone with him.

It's been a CRAZY week for me...the 29th is my Grandpop's 13th anniversary of death, 30th Natalee's 5th anniversary and now Stephany's, June 4th is my best friend/sister in-law 15th yr anniversary.
My emotions have been all over the place this week.

pb

Seems like the whole world is a bit crazy. So sorry for your Grandpop and SIL. You are blessed to have family members you love. Me too.

[crazybabyborg]

What a difference a week makes! It was about this time last Sunday ... If only Stephany hadn't gone with him.

It's been a CRAZY week for me...the 29th is my Grandpop's 13th anniversary of death, 30th Natalee's 5th anniversary and now Stephany's, June 4th is my best friend/sister in-law 15th yr anniversary.
My emotions have been all over the place this week.

pb

Settle in with us here, pb! We've got a ways to go before this comes to trial, so we had better buckle up! <wink>

[sb]

I think they said a few pages back that the Dutch Embassy (or something like that) will be providing Joran with an attorney.

Well, phooey. This I DID NOT want to hear.

Get ready for more euro-bleeding-heart, "He's just a victim of his circumstances", Dutch psychobabble crime-is-just-a-cry-for-help nonsense.

[texasmom]

One thing that does bother me about this investigation is why on earth would they have to exhume Stephany to take evidence from under her fingernails?  

I'm basing this on statements that were supposedly made by her father in articles I've read, who also stated that this is why they were not allowed to cremate her.

Why wasn't that done during the autopsy?  I just don't understand that.

Mark Furhman (I know...ackkk) said after talking iirc to the Medical Examiner's office that it was routine to take those samples...if that's so I don't understand WHY they didn't do it?

It just seems like that would be a very important piece of evidence that should be collected and analyzed right away.

[pinkbanana]

Thank you!!

monkey hugs

pb

[billb's daughter]

It will be interesting to see if urine gets a high profile lawyer from aruba/anita connections or if he is left to the 65 duds that represent the less fortunate in Peru........
That should go a long way to weight urine's fate in the Peruvian justice system.....

I think they said a few pages back that the Dutch Embassy (or something like that) will be providing Joran with an attorney.

Klaas? I believe that was clarified to state that the embassy would provide assistance with health issues but not with an atty. That's the last I read, anyway.

Lot of conflicting data.....
Still,
If urine gets "lawyer-ed up" it will provide a degree of what may come......
No high profile lawyer....burnt toast is right around the corner.....
"lawyer-ed up"....game on......outcome will be played out with lots of media coverage.....
aruba tourism loses either way....but by far the "lawyer-ed up" bringing continual media coverage...is the worst of two evils for aruba......

[Port Valerie]

I read the booklet that was suggested a while back -- about page 39. It is said to be written by the UK government for its citizens jailed in Peru. Pretty frightening. There's not much the home government can do. Also, in the case of the UK, the home government will "liase" for the prisoner but will provide no money. The prisoner has to hire his own lawyer. The prisoner's family and friends have to set up a fund to send food, clothes, and toiletries. Of course, this is the UK, not the NL.

[pinkbanana]

What a difference a week makes! It was about this time last Sunday ... If only Stephany hadn't gone with him.

It's been a CRAZY week for me...the 29th is my Grandpop's 13th anniversary of death, 30th Natalee's 5th anniversary and now Stephany's, June 4th is my best friend/sister in-law 15th yr anniversary.
My emotions have been all over the place this week.

pb

Settle in with us here, pb! We've got a ways to go before this comes to trial, so we had better buckle up! <wink>

CBB before I became a member in 2008 I was a guest every night...Monkeys somehow ALWAYS gave me comfort. smile

I've been waiting for that POS to get his day...I AIN'T GOING NO WHERE!! lol

pb

[crazybabyborg]

What a difference a week makes! It was about this time last Sunday ... If only Stephany hadn't gone with him.

It's been a CRAZY week for me...the 29th is my Grandpop's 13th anniversary of death, 30th Natalee's 5th anniversary and now Stephany's, June 4th is my best friend/sister in-law 15th yr anniversary.
My emotions have been all over the place this week.

pb

Settle in with us here, pb! We've got a ways to go before this comes to trial, so we had better buckle up! <wink>

CBB before I became a member in 2008 I was a guest every night...Monkeys somehow ALWAYS gave me comfort. smile

I've been waiting for that POS to get his day...I AIN'T GOING NO WHERE!! lol

pb

I know what you mean, pb! I wouldn't miss this for anything! I think we all just so related to what Natalee's family must have been feeling, and then Aruba made everything so outrageous! I want to see Joran in a different system and I want to know that no other girl will suffer Natalee's and Stephany's fate at Joran's hands!

[Port Valerie]

Here is the link again. I grabbed it from my history. Sorry, can't remember who posted it first.

http://ukinperu.fco.gov.uk/resources/es/pdf/pdf1/british-detained-in-peru

Excellent explanation of what happens to a foreigner detained in a Peruvian jail.

[crazybabyborg]

One thing that does bother me about this investigation is why on earth would they have to exhume Stephany to take evidence from under her fingernails?  

I'm basing this on statements that were supposedly made by her father in articles I've read, who also stated that this is why they were not allowed to cremate her.

Why wasn't that done during the autopsy?  I just don't understand that.

Mark Furhman (I know...ackkk) said after talking iirc to the Medical Examiner's office that it was routine to take those samples...if that's so I don't understand WHY they didn't do it?

It just seems like that would be a very important piece of evidence that should be collected and analyzed right away.

Those are really good questions and I can't imagine what the answer is. I agree that it only makes sense to get what you need forensically before burial!

[billb's daughter]

What a difference a week makes! It was about this time last Sunday ... If only Stephany hadn't gone with him.

It's been a CRAZY week for me...the 29th is my Grandpop's 13th anniversary of death, 30th Natalee's 5th anniversary and now Stephany's, June 4th is my best friend/sister in-law 15th yr anniversary.
My emotions have been all over the place this week.

pb

Settle in with us here, pb! We've got a ways to go before this comes to trial, so we had better buckle up! <wink>

CBB before I became a member in 2008 I was a guest every night...Monkeys somehow ALWAYS gave me comfort. smile

I've been waiting for that POS to get his day...I AIN'T GOING NO WHERE!! lol

pb

I know what you mean, pb! I wouldn't miss this for anything! I think we all just so related to what Natalee's family must have been feeling, and then Aruba made everything so outrageous! I want to see Joran in a different system and I want to know that no other girl will suffer Natalee's and Stephany's fate at Joran's hands!

Natalee became everyone's daughter when we saw the injustice early on. Stephany has now become an extension because of urine the monster. Stephany is everyone's daughter....I am just so hopeful that Peru can bring justice to Stehany and Natalee that aruba refused to do......

[pinkbanana]

What a difference a week makes! It was about this time last Sunday ... If only Stephany hadn't gone with him.

It's been a CRAZY week for me...the 29th is my Grandpop's 13th anniversary of death, 30th Natalee's 5th anniversary and now Stephany's, June 4th is my best friend/sister in-law 15th yr anniversary.
My emotions have been all over the place this week.

pb

Settle in with us here, pb! We've got a ways to go before this comes to trial, so we had better buckle up! <wink>

CBB before I became a member in 2008 I was a guest every night...Monkeys somehow ALWAYS gave me comfort. smile

I've been waiting for that POS to get his day...I AIN'T GOING NO WHERE!! lol

pb

I know what you mean, pb! I wouldn't miss this for anything! I think we all just so related to what Natalee's family must have been feeling, and then Aruba made everything so outrageous! I want to see Joran in a different system and I want to know that no other girl will suffer Natalee's and Stephany's fate at Joran's hands!

That's one of the reasons why I was part of the small group who Boycotted Aruba in nyc.Aruba needed to know that Natalee and her family had friends/family ALL OVER the states!

I agree with what I made bold.

pb

[Port Valerie]

If you're detained in prison in Peru ...

"Peru does have a legal aid scheme and the Court will appoint a lawyer on your behalf if
required. However, Peruvian State resources are limited and the public legal service
may not meet your expectations. If you wish, you can hire a private lawyer to represent
you. We can not recommend any lawyer, but can provide you with the Embassy List of
Lawyers, which appears in Annex B.

"Please be advised that DIRANDRO has informed the Embassy there are some lawyers
of dubious reputation offering their services at their premises."

[TURBOTHINK]

Okay, I've got one.

When Joran leaves the hotel, it looks like he's got a back pack and (just) one small valise, maybe a duffle bag. His laptop must have been inside one of these.

The two brothers/taxi drivers said he had a ruck sack and two suitcases. (I'm guessing "ruck sack" = back pack.)

How do we suppose the second "suitcase" materialized?

I believe they drove to Joran's hotel in Stephany's car.  Those are the keys Joran has in his hands walking INTO the hotel with Steph.  When he leaves he has HIS stuff.  He gets in Steph's car and drives it back down to the casino area.  Maybe then she has something in her car he takes.

When I am carrying larger sums of money I always lock my purse in my trunk and only carry my keys with me in my pocket. Maybe she did too and that is why he took the car - for the money.

[pinkbanana]

Good night

Thank you, Monkeys for NEVER giving up!!

Good Bless

pb

[TURBOTHINK]

On NG or JVM the other night, Wendy Murphy said that :
a. ) Civil law
b. ) three judges, no jury
c. ) the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt does not have to be met, it is a preponderance of evidence ( which is lower )
..
He is gone for good.
..
LE friend said that the case has to be very strong to get Interpol involved. So who gives a crap what anyone from Aruba thinks, becasue we know Aruba doesn"t.
..
 

I am not sure where I read this, but it seems to me that the judges wear a black hood over their heads. I think I read about that in an account of a prisoner who had been tried under their court system and talked about how horrible their jails were..