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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #834 6/4/10 - 6/6/10  (Read 422828 times)
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can
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« Reply #1460 on: June 06, 2010, 09:59:20 AM »

Has anyone heard if they have recovered Joran's laptop and other personal possessions?  I could be wrong but I think I read that when they picked him up he "couldn't remember" where he had stayed the night before or where his things were.

If he had her jewelry, I could see him unloading it quick just for the need of more cash if nothing else.  If hotel workers or whoever stole the jelwelry I would thing there DNA would also be on her body.  That of course would not be good for the prosecution, although it would be hard to believe that Joran's isn't all over her.

Traveling with a tennis racket would make sense.  He is a tennis player and most resort/vacation area have courts.

It does not make any sense that the hotel employees would have stolen any of here jewelry as the video shows no one entering the room from the time Joran left until they discover the body

No one with half a brain would steal jewelry from a scene like that

Blah ITA
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Buckeye
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« Reply #1461 on: June 06, 2010, 10:00:39 AM »

When and where did he get the hair dye?

Stole it from Anita, before he left???
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« Reply #1462 on: June 06, 2010, 10:04:01 AM »

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Behind Every Lie is a Clue to the Truth
can
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« Reply #1463 on: June 06, 2010, 10:06:33 AM »

When and where did he get the hair dye?

Stole it from Anita, before he left???

lolol
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Nut44x4
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« Reply #1464 on: June 06, 2010, 10:07:22 AM »

Lmaoooooooo buckeye!
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« Reply #1465 on: June 06, 2010, 10:07:22 AM »

I just wanted to stop in and congratulate the members of SM who've spent thousands of hours investigating Natalee's case, dissecting the evidence, keeping this case in the light, and treasuring Natalee's memory, and supporting her family.  Your belief in this murderer's guilt never failed, nor your rightful outrage toward the "authorities" in Aruba or the members of their press who participated in a blatent criminal cover-up.  There will be justice now for Stephany and for Natalee as well as all of the people who so tirelessy, and for so long, worked for it and prayed for it.  I am proud to have been associated with y'all.
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« Reply #1466 on: June 06, 2010, 10:12:41 AM »

I just wanted to stop in and congratulate the members of SM who've spent thousands of hours investigating Natalee's case, dissecting the evidence, keeping this case in the light, and treasuring Natalee's memory, and supporting her family.  Your belief in this murderer's guilt never failed, nor your rightful outrage toward the "authorities" in Aruba or the members of their press who participated in a blatent criminal cover-up.  There will be justice now for Stephany and for Natalee as well as all of the people who so tirelessy, and for so long, worked for it and prayed for it.  I am proud to have been associated with y'all.

Welcome back Darleen!
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« Reply #1467 on: June 06, 2010, 10:14:07 AM »

Blonde - Yeah, I never realized the ears were so similar
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darleenofalabama
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« Reply #1468 on: June 06, 2010, 10:18:46 AM »

Thanks, Klassend; it's a nice place to be.  Congratulations for managing a site with so much character for so long.
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« Reply #1469 on: June 06, 2010, 10:21:05 AM »

In my humble opinion, Joran was attempting to cover his tracks - a weak attempt - but an attempt none the less. Everything Joran does is weak, and that's why he needed Paulus and Jan. And the IFA and Holland. On his own he is weak.

Thank God he didn't realize that a body could be placed in a suitcase and wheeled away - hence, missing. Missing yet probable cause to conclude death due to the forensics in the room. All the elements where there. Video. Entrance and exit.

"Don't bother my girl" - it's obvious. No need to explain that, it's apparent to all.

What's not apparent is the reason a lesbian would leave with him and actually end up in his room, and furthermore - how he persuaded Stephany to allow her guard down enough to think any stranger was safe.

The list of motives is long, afterall, we all KNOW Joran and his tendencies - so he could have used any of a hundred lures to get Stephany to enter his room.

I would not even discount - placing her winnings in a secure safe located in his room. This remains a mystery.



"If" Joran lost money to Stephany in a poker game, do you think it's possible that he told her his money was in his room and that's why she went to his room?

Doesn't make sense to me now that we hear that she had been talking about Joran van der Sloot about a month before (my understanding is that she had just found out about him on the interent...not that she had met him a month before).  In other words, "before" she met him she knew who JvdS was and so why didn't she just run away from him when she first met him in the casino? 

I do believe Joran drugged Stephany during the 37 minutes they sat in her car after leaving the casino and before going to Joran's room.



Hi ya Puzzler, sure, I think anything is possible. This is Joran we're talking about. lol.





Puzzler,  I read 'somewhere' a couple of days ago that the cousin was talking to someone else, perhaps another cousin about VDS. It was not Stepany that he was discussing VDS with. He said he wasn't sure she even knew who he was.
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #1470 on: June 06, 2010, 10:23:39 AM »

http://photos.state.gov/libraries/curacao/5/2010/WEEKLY_News_060410.pdf

News Items and Public Crime Summary for Week Ending June 5, 2010

snipped

Aruba - Natalee Holloway Resource Center Opens in Washington, DC

The mother of an Alabama teen who disappeared five years ago in Aruba is opening a resource center to help families of missing persons.

Beth Holloway has created the Natalee Holloway Resource Center, named for her daughter who went missing during a high school graduation trip to Aruba. The center will be based at the National Museum of Crime & Punishment in downtown Washington.

The nonprofit center aims to provide families with an action plan, examples of missing person posters, contacts, media liaisons and other services to guide families during crises. Officials also say they will provide educational programs on safe traveling and crime prevention and encourage careers in forensic science and law enforcement.
The center will launch on June 8. For more information visit: http://helpthemissing.org
(Aruba Post)

snip

Aruba – Natalee Holloway Case Suspect Wanted for Murder

Aruban prosecutor Peter Blanken, who has been part of the investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, has learned that Joran van der Sloot is now a suspect in a new murder, that of a 21-year-old woman whose body was found in a hotel room in Lima, Peru.

Early Wednesday morning, Stephany Flores Ramirez was found dead, Peruvian newspaper El Comercio reports, in a hotel room registered under van der Sloot's name.

Aruban Prosecutor Peter Blanken said that an Interpol international arrest warrant has been issued for van der Sloot, who may, according to some reports, be on the run from police. The Dutch Foreign Affairs Department in the Netherlands has notified their people in Chile to be aware that Joran may be in Chile.

Five years ago, in May 2005, Alabama high school student Natalee Holloway disappeared during a senior class trip to Aruba. She was last seen leaving a bar with Joran van der Sloot. Van der Sloot has been detained several times, but never charged. According to Blanken, he is examining the new details but does not expect it to affect the Holloway case or provide new evidence. He says that they will be contacting the Peruvian authorities later today to see if they can offer assistance. (Various media)
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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« Reply #1471 on: June 06, 2010, 10:24:36 AM »

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/blunders_L9qEDENTmAqV3V1PQobyYI/2

Blunders of hunt for Natalee Holloway

By MAUREEN CALLAHAN

Last Updated: 8:13 AM, June 6, 2010

Posted: 2:45 AM, June 6, 2010

It was 11 a.m. on the morning of May 30, 2005, when Natalee Holloway failed to show up in the lobby of the Holiday Inn on Aruba, where she'd been on a class trip with 123 of her fellow high-school seniors from Birmingham, Ala.

Her mother, Beth Twitty, got a call from one of the chaperones a few minutes after 11. She called her husband -- Natalee's stepfather, Jug -- her son Matt, then 16, and the FBI. By 10 that night, she and Jug had landed in Aruba, and began searching for Natalee.

They quickly zeroed in on a well-to-do 17-year-old named Joran van der Sloot. Some of Natalee's classmates told Beth they had last seen her with van der Sloot at a bar.

Beth became convinced that van der Sloot murdered her daughter, whose body has never been found. Beth has since kept up her public campaign against him -- and the Aruban authorities she feels botched the investigation.

Now, with van der Sloot's arrest last week in a 21-year-old Peruvian woman's murder, the question Beth Twitty has been asking for five years is being asked by another family: How could this have happened?

VAN der Sloot was never charged in Natalee's disappearance. Even more incredibly, after his arrest in Chile on Thursday, US authorities announced they were charging van der Sloot with extortion and fraud. He had allegedly told Beth that he would reveal the location of Natalee's body in exchange for $250,000.

The answer lies in Aruba's attitude toward missing persons and assaults on foreign women and its approach to criminal law. And a family that, in its grief, unwittingly hurt an investigation and alienated a nation.

"If anyone reported that they'd been assaulted, it was a long, drawn-out process," ex-FBI profiler Clinton van Zandt told The Post.

A victimized tourist would "have to fly back and forth to Aruba several times -- it was, like, 'You should consider yourself lucky [to be alive] and get yourself home on the next boat or plane.' "

Van der Sloot, he added, was well-known among authorities for "hanging out in bars and casinos, targeting foreigners for sex, stalking young women. It was almost a laughing matter to police."

The same night that Beth and Jug Twitty arrived in Aruba, they went with the cops to van der Sloot's house. Eventually, cops interrogated van der Sloot in his driveway as the Twittys and his father, an Aruban attorney named Paulus, looked on.

This was one of the first mistakes investigators made -- allowing a suspect to be interrogated in the presence of a victim's family.

"That's completely off the wall," said former NYPD Detective Vernon Geberth, author of "The Practical Homicide Investigation," known to cops as the bible of murder-investigation techniques.

It would be very rare to have outside people present at an interrogation, and under no circumstances should relatives of the victim be involved, Geberth said.

Julia Renfro, the editor in chief of the Aruba Daily who became close to Beth during the search for Natalee, said Beth had told her of the interrogation.

"Beth herself said to me that Joran was talking, that everything was going smoothly," Renfro recalled.

But while van der Sloot was giving the cops his version of events -- at first insisting he didn't know who Natalee was, then admitting he had met her at a nightclub -- Jug suddenly laced into van der Sloot, shutting him up.

Beth, Renfro said, knew van der Sloot was lying, but she felt the cops were getting somewhere, that maybe they could get even more from him.

But, Renfro told The Post, "Jug got really loud and rowdy, cursing."

Van der Sloot's father ended the interrogation and was later reported to have advised his son, "No body, no case."

NATALEE'S mother and stepfather were also horrified to learn that Aruban authorities had a 48-hour waiting period before declaring a person missing.

Beth began going on American TV the first day she was there and kept at it nightly. She complained about the slow pace of the investigation and the laissez faire attitude displayed by authorities.

Van der Sloot, along with Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, two brothers who had been with him the night Natalee disappeared, were arrested two days later.

Under Aruban law, suspects can be jailed for up to 146 days without any evidence or even any charges. Van der Sloot spent the maximum time allowed in prison, but investigators turned up nothing incriminating.

"Nothing pointed to him," Joe Tacopina, a New York attorney who represented van der Sloot, told The Post. "They turned over every grain of sand looking for her. They dug the earth under his house. They came in with a bulldozer and ripped apart the family pool."

Meanwhile, Beth had been on American television daily, giving updates on the search for Natalee and venting her frustration with Aruban authorities.

"The nightly rants on TV were hard," Renfro said, "but people accepted it."

Upon van der Sloot's release, Aruban authorities continued to watch him and the Kalpoes, tapping their cellphones and computers. They found nothing.

Beth, said Renfro, ramped up her public attacks on Aruban authorities.

"In the beginning, she wanted to make the world aware that Natalee was missing -- there were 30 to 40 thousand tourists on that island," Renfro said. "Then it started to be, 'Aruba's corrupt; Aruba's incompetent.' "

Beth hired a private investigator, the Georgia-based T.J. Ward, to conduct his own search. Renfro said he was the one who poisoned Beth against the Arubans.

"A lot of his information was incorrect," Renfro said. "He'd go back and say, 'The father's a big judge with a lot of money,' but he wasn't anything special. It was very upsetting."

Beth, Ward and Renfro "jumped on" every tip that came in and couldn't understand why police weren't doing the same.

In hindsight, Renfro said, the cops were right not to follow what were clearly dozens of false leads. But Beth's frustration and panic was exacerbated, Renfro said, by the way Aruban authorities deal with victims' family members. In short: They don't.

"The Dutch system is not transparent at all," Renfro said. "It's not corrupt; it's just different, and that can be very frustrating. The relatives have to sit and wait."

In November 2005, Beth scheduled a press conference in Aruba, her biggest yet. She invited members of the foreign press but kept out local journalists, and called for a boycott of Aruba, which was later endorsed by TV host "Dr. Phil" McGraw.

That, said Renfro, was the moment Beth and her family lost the sympathies of Arubans.

"She told the world that Aruba allows criminals to walk on the beach with tourists, and to close their borders to the subjects who harmed her daughter," Renfro said.

"It was quite harmful, not just financially, but emotionally. Tourism is the main source of income for the island, and these were the people who spent days and nights searching and praying for Natalee. She really tarnished the image of the people. That's when Arubans turned on her."

The authorities, how ever, persisted in their attempt to prove van der Sloot's guilt.

In Aruba, prosecutors must present new evidence in order to re-arrest a suspect. They didn't have it, but in 2007 they told a three-judge tribunal they were going to present old evidence that had been examined using new technology. It was widely viewed as a flimsy premise, but the court granted the motion.

Prosecutors also made one last attempt at eliciting a confession: Authorities arrested all three boys on the same day and at the same time in three different countries.

Continued surveillance had shown that the brothers hadn't spoken to van der Sloot in a year and a half and that they hadn't discussed Holloway.

With no DNA evidence, no body and no crime scene, prosecutors thought their best chance was in pitting each boy against the others and flipping someone.

"Nobody broke," Renfro said. "They all told the same story."

The three suspects all admitted to having met Holloway at a casino two days prior to her disappearance.

Van der Sloot and the Kalpoes told police that on the night she vanished, they ran into her at a popular restaurant and from there took her to the beach.

She and van der Sloot were kissing in the back of the car. The three young men initially said they dropped Holloway at her hotel about 2 a.m.

Later, van der Sloot changed his story, saying he and Holloway were dropped off at a beach and walked together for a while. He claimed he left her there alone because she wasn't ready to leave when he was.

After his 2007 arrest, van der Sloot spent seven days in jail.

According to Tacopina, van der Sloot's former attorney, "The judges said, 'This is over. There's never going to be any credible evidence.' "

Although van der Sloot was caught on tape in 2008 telling an undercover journalist that a friend of his dumped Natalee's body after she had convulsed and died, his statements were ruled inadmissible.

NOT only was van der Sloot openly smoking pot on the tape, he never incriminated himself in her death or disappearance. He'd also gone to the cops voluntarily and said that the journalist had paid him in exchange for the conversation and that everything he had said was a lie.

Last week, FBI officials in Alabama charged van der Sloot with trying to extort $250,000 from an unnamed person.

"He extorted, or attempted to extort someone, an individual, in exchange for the location of Natalee Holloway's remains and information about her death," said Peggy Sanford, spokeswoman for the US Attorney's Office in Birmingham, where Holloway's mother lives.

According to the federal complaint, van der Sloot, 22, had been wired $15,000 on May 10. The money had been sent to a Netherlands bank.

Officials say any information he gave was bogus.
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AZSunny
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« Reply #1472 on: June 06, 2010, 10:25:40 AM »



Boy,  they are looking more and more alike.  I don't remember Joran having the "tommy Ears" before.  They are really prominent.
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« Reply #1473 on: June 06, 2010, 10:33:38 AM »

I wonder if there is a receipt or an statement from the clerk of where Joran purchased (reportedly 2 coffees and a loaf of bread). Wonder if he bought  clorox or took from hotel cleaning carts.   Wonder if he made any attempt to cleanse that room?

Not that it matters... his goose is cooked!

Sounds like they checked on the room because of a foul smell. When the employee got into the room they found Stephany's body laying on the floor face up bleeding out of the nose and ear and blunt force trauma all over her body especially her head.  THE EMPLOYEE CALLED POLICE.

They are saying there was blood all over the place so I expect Joran only cleaned himself up and nothing else.

Also, I suspect the found his things (bloody clothes/laptop etc) that he left behind in the hotel he stayed one night in Chile.  The hotel he couldn't remember.  I'm sure they found that and got his stuff.

Not look good for Joran, not one bit.



Yep, he didn't have Daddy and his helpers to clean up after him this time. 

I can't imagine why, he would have left bloody clothes in his room.  Pretty stupid of him. Stupid is as stupid does.

 
He didn't. The bloody clothes were found in his possession when he was arrested.
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You have to give Joran credit. He found a way to travel extensively without it costing him a dime.
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« Reply #1474 on: June 06, 2010, 10:34:04 AM »

Updated RU poll:



My guess at the 9 people that believe Joran is an innocent sporter and wouldn't hurt a fly, he just has really really bad luck.

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« Reply #1475 on: June 06, 2010, 10:37:27 AM »

I just wanted to stop in and congratulate the members of SM who've spent thousands of hours investigating Natalee's case, dissecting the evidence, keeping this case in the light, and treasuring Natalee's memory, and supporting her family.  Your belief in this murderer's guilt never failed, nor your rightful outrage toward the "authorities" in Aruba or the members of their press who participated in a blatent criminal cover-up.  There will be justice now for Stephany and for Natalee as well as all of the people who so tirelessy, and for so long, worked for it and prayed for it.  I am proud to have been associated with y'all.
I have been wondering when you would show up. Welcome back. It is too bad it took such a terrible tragedy to reunite so many monkees.
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You have to give Joran credit. He found a way to travel extensively without it costing him a dime.
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« Reply #1476 on: June 06, 2010, 10:38:07 AM »

I can't copy this to run it through translation....can anyone tell if this mentions an attorney for Joran??
http://www.peru.com/noticias/portada20100606/100706/Holandes-Joran-van-der-Sloot-sera-recluido-en-el-penal-Miguel-Castro-Castro-en-los-proximos-dias-y-estaria-cerca-del-sicario-colombiano-Alejandro-Trujillo-Ospina

I took 1 year of Spanish lessons when I was 12 ..... I know/remember nothing except numbers and general greetings, lol. I should have paid better attention to Sesame Street when my Son watched it as a kid, lol.


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« Reply #1477 on: June 06, 2010, 10:42:59 AM »

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/blunders_L9qEDENTmAqV3V1PQobyYI/2

Klaas, this article just infuriates me.  How in the world would anyone use Renfo as a source?  The worlds biggest slut becomes a reliable source?  Unreal.
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« Reply #1478 on: June 06, 2010, 10:45:28 AM »

In my humble opinion, Joran was attempting to cover his tracks - a weak attempt - but an attempt none the less. Everything Joran does is weak, and that's why he needed Paulus and Jan. And the IFA and Holland. On his own he is weak.

Thank God he didn't realize that a body could be placed in a suitcase and wheeled away - hence, missing. Missing yet probable cause to conclude death due to the forensics in the room. All the elements where there. Video. Entrance and exit.

"Don't bother my girl" - it's obvious. No need to explain that, it's apparent to all.

What's not apparent is the reason a lesbian would leave with him and actually end up in his room, and furthermore - how he persuaded Stephany to allow her guard down enough to think any stranger was safe.

The list of motives is long, afterall, we all KNOW Joran and his tendencies - so he could have used any of a hundred lures to get Stephany to enter his room.

I would not even discount - placing her winnings in a secure safe located in his room. This remains a mystery.



"If" Joran lost money to Stephany in a poker game, do you think it's possible that he told her his money was in his room and that's why she went to his room?

Doesn't make sense to me now that we hear that she had been talking about Joran van der Sloot about a month before (my understanding is that she had just found out about him on the interent...not that she had met him a month before).  In other words, "before" she met him she knew who JvdS was and so why didn't she just run away from him when she first met him in the casino? 

I do believe Joran drugged Stephany during the 37 minutes they sat in her car after leaving the casino and before going to Joran's room.



Hi ya Puzzler, sure, I think anything is possible. This is Joran we're talking about. lol.





Puzzler,  I read 'somewhere' a couple of days ago that the cousin was talking to someone else, perhaps another cousin about VDS. It was not Stepany that he was discussing VDS with. He said he wasn't sure she even knew who he was.

the family of Stephany didn't know him fer sure. They googled his name after they got his room identification and nearly had a heart attack.
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« Reply #1479 on: June 06, 2010, 10:45:35 AM »

I can't copy this to run it through translation....can anyone tell if this mentions an attorney for Joran??
http://www.peru.com/noticias/portada20100606/100706/Holandes-Joran-van-der-Sloot-sera-recluido-en-el-penal-Miguel-Castro-Castro-en-los-proximos-dias-y-estaria-cerca-del-sicario-colombiano-Alejandro-Trujillo-Ospina

I took 1 year of Spanish lessons when I was 12 ..... I know/remember nothing except numbers and general greetings, lol. I should have paid better attention to Sesame Street when my Son watched it as a kid, lol.




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