Natalee Case Discussion #834 6/4/10 - 6/6/10

[Jo-An]

Hi Monkeys!

I need to go catch up, but wanted to wave at everybody before I head back!! <monkey wave>!!

The last I read, the Dutch consulate was going to supply Joran with a defense atty. (grrrrr)

My thoughts were that they wanted involvement in the case to make sure Joran didn't spill any beans on their cover-up in Nat's case.

I'm sure that's really old news now, and may have even changed................ I'll go find out! You guys have been busy!

The Dutch consulate is NOT going to supply him with an attorney.
All they do is supply him with a list of attorneys, which is just common protocol for any Western prisoner detained in Peru.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/06/peru.murder.case/index.html?hpt=T3

Carlos Neyra, an official with the Peruvian National Police criminal investigation division, said van der Sloot, the sole suspect named in the case, has not been formally charged.

Neyra added that van der Sloot now has a lawyer, assigned by the Dutch Embassy. However, the embassy says while it is working with local authorities, it is not paying for a defense attorney.

thanks carpe

I can't find any report in the Dutch media saying that the Dutch embassy assigned a lawyer to Joran.
Again, only that they gave him a list with local attorneys and he can pick one himself.
Maybe something got lost in translation (again).

[klaasend]

Thanks EURobert - I may have to do something with that voodoo footage 

[EURobert]

Just in Dutch NOS journaal: Jurine is probably going to the Lurigancho Prison; totally corrupt; you only survive if you have money. It has a special wing for foreigners; circumstances are slightly better there.

thanks Robert.....what can you tell us about the special wing????  TIA

I don't know if this reporter was right about the Lurigancho Prison. On the previous page Cece posted an article that says he will go to the Miguel Castro Castro prison.

Is the Miquel Castro Castro prison on an island?

Looks like an island. But in the mountains (?). http://www.satellite-sightseer.com/id/14540

[TURBOTHINK]

Yes, and more likely in my opinion a masochistic psychopath. The line is not well defined in psychology. Many sociopaths become psychopathic or are even originally that and just get better at it with time. Most sociopaths have a proclivity for violence and while some never act on that it seems as if once they do, the game is on. Provided they are not forcibly stopped, they can do anything at all because they have no conscience. Ones who have access to family money and have a special talent for whipping up other people's hatred they can even arrange to kill large numbers of unsuspecting people without being caught.

With enough money people like him can even accomplish this from far away and then watch with satisfaction law enforcement trying to put the pieces together. A person like him who is possessed of  a "blood lust" and no conscience takes great pride in watching others try to figure out his perverted mind patterns.

About 1 in every 25 persons are sociopathic which is a frightening statistic if you think about it.

I think you mean about one in every 25 people have sociopathic traits; psychopathy/sociopathy are syndromes of traits/symptomes.

Not really. It is a lack of conscience. It may exhibit some identifiable symptoms, but in itself is not a symptom. The presence or lack of conscience is a deep human division, arguably more significant than intelligence, race or even gender. What differentiates a sociopath who lives off the labors of others from one who occasionally robs convenience stores or what makes the difference between an ordinary bully and a sociopath murderer - is nothing more than social status, drive, intellect, blood lust or simple opportunity in some cases.

What distinguishes these people from the rest of us is there is an utterly empty hole in their psyche, where there should be the most evolved of all humanizing functions. They are totally lacking in any conscience.

Except for the psychopathic monsters like this man and others we see in the news and on TV, whose actions are too horrific to explain away , conscienceless people are nearly always invisible to us in society as a whole. Very few people, no matter how well educated they are in other ways even know the meaning of the word sociopath. Even after we have learned the label for it, to be devoid of any conscience is impossible for most human being to comprehend.  

[MisGivings]

MisGivings - Renfro is a pig, she won't fit in there

Aw, shux, I just really hate traitors.

[texasmom]

There have been a few fires at Bubali Plas since that show aired too.

There was a big one at the end of May.

5/24/10
http://boletinextra.com/index.php/local-news/1435-candela-grandi-na-bubali-plas

http://bb.visitaruba.com/f2/bird-sanctuary-fire-14574/

Bird Sanctuary on fire
Started at 11pm last night last I saw on the news, it did burn all night and might be continuing to burn.

We had a pretty rainless rainy season but that is still a marshy area but I'm sure it's dryer than usual

Here are some pics (copied link below)
http://www.24ora.com/policial-mainmenu-8/17978-candela-na-bubali-plas.html

Candela na Bubali Plas

Sad news indeed!

[MisGivings]

Hi Monkeys!

I need to go catch up, but wanted to wave at everybody before I head back!! <monkey wave>!!

The last I read, the Dutch consulate was going to supply Joran with a defense atty. (grrrrr)

My thoughts were that they wanted involvement in the case to make sure Joran didn't spill any beans on their cover-up in Nat's case.

I'm sure that's really old news now, and may have even changed................ I'll go find out! You guys have been busy!

The Dutch consulate is NOT going to supply him with an attorney.
All they do is supply him with a list of attorneys, which is just common protocol for any Western prisoner detained in Peru.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/06/peru.murder.case/index.html?hpt=T3

Carlos Neyra, an official with the Peruvian National Police criminal investigation division, said van der Sloot, the sole suspect named in the case, has not been formally charged.

Neyra added that van der Sloot now has a lawyer, assigned by the Dutch Embassy. However, the embassy says while it is working with local authorities, it is not paying for a defense attorney.

thanks carpe

I can't find any report in the Dutch media saying that the Dutch embassy assigned a lawyer to Joran.
Again, only that they gave him a list with local attorneys and he can pick one himself.
Maybe something got lost in translation (again).

Joran is waiting for his mommy to come take care of this for him. I am thinking at this point it is more like pin the tail on the donkey.

[crazybabyborg]

So Joran GAVE Jaap the map?????? Joran essentially ADMITTED guilt by extorting the Holloways. Joran killed again on the exact 5 year anniversary date. 
I am convinced Joran WANTED to be finally caught.

Years ago I talked with the Shrink I used to work with about this case. She said that a common element to many psycopaths is an unconscience desire to be caught/stopped.

Well, if that's the case with Joran, he did it well. I can't think how he could possibly have hemmed himself in any better!

[crazybabyborg]

They've got his stuff including laptop!!!!  WOO - HOO!!!

Oh he is so toast! He is burnt toast! He's a crispy critter!!!!

OMG!!!! I love it!!! MONKEY JUMPING JACKS!!!!

Take a bite out of crime!!!

[Lifesong]

Thanks, Klassend; it's a nice place to be.  Congratulations for managing a site with so much character for so long.

I'm so far behind, but I had to bump this forward and add my gratitude as well.

Klaas & The Amazing Mods, thank you so much!  Darleen said it best - for managing a site with so much character for so long.

[Ono]

Don't know if this video was already posted or not. Joran at police station, handing over his money, creditcards, pictures etc. His hair looks really blond there!

http://elcomercio.pe/player/490579

SWEET!!! They got his laptop.
Joran, you are a dead man.

Wow, just wow!  It's so wonderful that from the very beginning they seem to be video taping almost anything you'd want to see.  I'm so grateful that here in the USA we can see what's transpiring with our own eyes.  It's like the whole world wants to see this guy go down and Peru is serving him up on a platter!!  Yes!!

It's truly gratifying to see the powers that be in Peru persuing the truth.  Everything before in Natalee's case, was so Machiavellian.  We have all waited so long to see magistrates want to do good work.

[caesu]

[MisGivings]

Yup, pretty sure they got him now. Anita should have saved her money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABs7fRnUVkI

[carpe noctem]

Thanks EURobert - I may have to do something with that voodoo footage 

What the heck were they stabbing? a joran doll and tomatoes in a sack?

Remind me never to tick off a Peruvian witch doctor. Great googlie mooglie!!!!

[Ono]

**pursuing**

[cece]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/06/ap/latinamerica/main6554801.shtml

Jun. 06, 2010
Dutch Murder Suspect Wants Lawyer In Peru
Dutch Murder Suspects Asks For Private Lawyer, Will Spent The Week At Police Office In Peru

(AP)   LIMA, Peru (AP) - Officials in Peru say murder suspect Joran van der Sloot will spend all week at criminal police headquarters while being interrogated in the killing of a 21-year-old Lima woman.

The Dutchman who also is the prime suspect in the 2005 disappearance of U.S. teen Natalee Holloway has asked for his own lawyer.

Police spokesman Jose Gamboa says van der Sloot had state-appointed counsel during questioning Saturday.

Maj. Gamboa says the 22-year-old van der Sloot is being held in a cell with a bunk bed and gets three hot meals a day.

The Dutchman was arrested in Chile Thursday in the May 30 murder of Stephany Flores. Security cameras recorded the two entering van der Sloot's room hotel and the Dutchman leaving alone four hours later.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

[EURobert]

Yes, and more likely in my opinion a masochistic psychopath. The line is not well defined in psychology. Many sociopaths become psychopathic or are even originally that and just get better at it with time. Most sociopaths have a proclivity for violence and while some never act on that it seems as if once they do, the game is on. Provided they are not forcibly stopped, they can do anything at all because they have no conscience. Ones who have access to family money and have a special talent for whipping up other people's hatred they can even arrange to kill large numbers of unsuspecting people without being caught.

With enough money people like him can even accomplish this from far away and then watch with satisfaction law enforcement trying to put the pieces together. A person like him who is possessed of  a "blood lust" and no conscience takes great pride in watching others try to figure out his perverted mind patterns.

About 1 in every 25 persons are sociopathic which is a frightening statistic if you think about it.

I think you mean about one in every 25 people have sociopathic traits; psychopathy/sociopathy are syndromes of traits/symptomes.

Not really. It is a lack of conscience. It may exhibit some identifiable symptoms, but in itself is not a symptom. The presence or lack of conscience is a deep human division, arguably more significant than intelligence, race or even gender. What differentiates a sociopath who lives off the labors of others from one who occasionally robs convenience stores or what makes the difference between an ordinary bully and a sociopath murderer - is nothing more than social status, drive, intellect, blood lust or simple opportunity in some cases.

What distinguishes these people from the rest of us is there is an utterly empty hole in their psyche, where there should be the most evolved of all humanizing functions. They are totally lacking in any conscience.

Except for the psychopathic monsters like this man and others we see in the news and on TV, whose actions are too horrific to explain away , conscienceless people are nearly always invisible to us in society as a whole. Very few people, no matter how well educated they are in other ways even know the meaning of the word sociopath. Even after we have learned the label for it, to be devoid of any conscience is impossible for most human being to comprehend.  

I've heard some psychiatrists talk of a checklist of 'traits' to determine if someone is a psychopath.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hare_Psychopathy_Checklist

[crazybabyborg]

Don't know if this video was already posted or not. Joran at police station, handing over his money, creditcards, pictures etc. His hair looks really blond there!

http://elcomercio.pe/player/490579

SWEET!!! They got his laptop.
Joran, you are a dead man.

Wow, just wow!  It's so wonderful that from the very beginning they seem to be video taping almost anything you'd want to see.  I'm so grateful that here in the USA we can see what's transpiring with our own eyes.  It's like the whole world wants to see this guy go down and Peru is serving him up on a platter!!  Yes!!

It's truly gratifying to see the powers that be in Peru persuing the truth.  Everything before in Natalee's case, was so Machiavellian.  We have all waited so long to see magistrates want to do good work.

I'm in real time now! I really think that Natalee's case was just as clear. Aruba worked hard to make sure it didn't remain that way. They didn't succeed to anyone with 1/2 a brain, but they gave it all they had! This time will be different, and I agree, it's so refreshing to see justice at work and know he won't harm anyone else.

[SunnyinTX]

I hope this hasn't already been posted...I've been doing some research and am not caught up!

http://stephww.wordpress.com/

TONIGHT EXCLUSIVE; DAVE HOLLOWAY SPEAKS OUT
June 6, 2010 – 8:02 am

Tonight at 8:00pm, I will be live from Aruba and I have an exclusive interview with Dave Holloway on my radio show.

For the first time since Jorans arrest, Dave will share his thoughts and insight. Also joining me is an eyewitness who saw Joran, covered in mud and missing a shoe the night Natalee dissapeared. Why did law enforecment not act on this tip?? Was this another part of the cover up??? And Tim Miller from Texas Equusearch in in Aruba following a new lead. Will there ever be justice in the Natalee Holloway case???

WATTS UP WITH THIS???

THE LATEST IN THE VAN DER SLOOT SAGA. IS THE EXTORTION MONEY NOW BLOOD MONEY?

June 6, 2010 – 4:14 am

Posted in Featured

Tagged breaking, Joran Van Der Sloot, Natalee Holloway, Peru, Alabama, Extortio
Comments (1)

On the heels of Joran Van Der Sloot’s arrest in Chile for the murder of another young lady, and in a strange turn of events, Alabama Federal authorities charged Joran Van Der Sloot with extortion in connection with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, the 18-year-old from Mountain Brook, AL, who vanished in Aruba five years ago.

U.S. Attorney Joyce Vance said at the news conference that her office had obtained an arrest warrant for Van Der Sloot, charging him with extortion and wire fraud, following a roughly six-week investigation. As you know, Van Der Sloot in now is being held by Chilean police for questioning in the stabbing death of another young woman in Peru. According to the federal criminal complaint, Van Der Sloot attempted to obtain $250,000 in exchange for providing information in the Holloway case.

To read the Complaint, click here.

Here’s what’ happening. I’m going to point out the FACTS, and you can connect the dots. Someone in Alabama wanted to get Joran Van Der Sloot to tell them where the body of Natalee Holloway was. Beth Holloway Twitty lives in Alabama, and who wouldn’t want to know, more than anybody, where their child’s body was. I personally would go to ANY lawful means necessary. I am NOT connecting Beth to this extortion case at this early date.

For the past six weeks, Joran has been corresponding with an individual in Alabama, and he had worked out an “agreement” to tell them where Natalee’s body was for $250,000. A complete scam on his part, he has done this in the past, but this time he was being set up. Joran was sent  some money, by an individual — allegedly $15,000 — to secure that this transaction was “legitimate” in his eyes. All emails/communications between these parties were being monitored.

What the individuals funding the sting operation weren’t aware of was, in the middle of this set up, Van Der Sloot, who was in Peru, would commit the unthinkable act of Murder.

I am in touch with a former friend of Joran in the Netherlands, who was corresponding with Van Der Sloot right after he murdered Stephanie in Peru. Japp (the friend) reached out to me to tell me had video tape of Joran (he filmed him for a documentary), and a map Joran drew of where he claims he put Natalee’s body. Because Jaap was corresponding with Joran, the authorities were monitoring his emails, and once he emailed me with the info about the tapes, they  raided his house took  all his tapes, phone and computer, etc.

BUT  I did get a copy of the map. I have given it to Tim Miller from Texas EquuSearch.  He is now in Aruba with me, and is planning on searching the area all week.  Stay tuned.  I will be updating live from Aruba all week.

I will post the map here soon.

WOOHOO!  Holy Moley!! And HOT DAMN! I hope every word of this is accurate!!!

[MisGivings]

Stole this;
Asimismo, la sangre hallada en la camisa del extranjero corresponde a la víctima.

In addition, blood found on the foreigner's shirt corresponds with the victim.

http://www.aja.com.pe/aja/seccion.php?txtSecci_id=22&txtNota_id=366735