Natalee Case Discussion #834 6/4/10 - 6/6/10

[Jesdamala]

Yes, and more likely in my opinion a masochistic psychopath. The line is not well defined in psychology. Many sociopaths become psychopathic or are even originally that and just get better at it with time. Most sociopaths have a proclivity for violence and while some never act on that it seems as if once they do, the game is on. Provided they are not forcibly stopped, they can do anything at all because they have no conscience. Ones who have access to family money and have a special talent for whipping up other people's hatred they can even arrange to kill large numbers of unsuspecting people without being caught.

With enough money people like him can even accomplish this from far away and then watch with satisfaction law enforcement trying to put the pieces together. A person like him who is possessed of  a "blood lust" and no conscience takes great pride in watching others try to figure out his perverted mind patterns.

About 1 in every 25 persons are sociopathic which is a frightening statistic if you think about it.

I think you mean about one in every 25 people have sociopathic traits; psychopathy/sociopathy are syndromes of traits/symptomes.

Not really. It is a lack of conscience. It may exhibit some identifiable symptoms, but in itself is not a symptom. The presence or lack of conscience is a deep human division, arguably more significant than intelligence, race or even gender. What differentiates a sociopath who lives off the labors of others from one who occasionally robs convenience stores or what makes the difference between an ordinary bully and a sociopath murderer - is nothing more than social status, drive, intellect, blood lust or simple opportunity in some cases.

What distinguishes these people from the rest of us is there is an utterly empty hole in their psyche, where there should be the most evolved of all humanizing functions. They are totally lacking in any conscience.

Except for the psychopathic monsters like this man and others we see in the news and on TV, whose actions are too horrific to explain away , conscienceless people are nearly always invisible to us in society as a whole. Very few people, no matter how well educated they are in other ways even know the meaning of the word sociopath. Even after we have learned the label for it, to be devoid of any conscience is impossible for most human being to comprehend.  

I know I cannot comprehend it.  Wondering if this is an 'insanity' defense, where such a defense exists.  I know insanity defenses are rarely successful.   Thank you for educating me.  Or trying! 

[carpe noctem]

Stole this;
Asimismo, la sangre hallada en la camisa del extranjero corresponde a la víctima.

In addition, blood found on the foreigner's shirt corresponds with the victim.

http://www.aja.com.pe/aja/seccion.php?txtSecci_id=22&txtNota_id=366735

Perfect. He`s toast. Extra CRIP-SY!

[klaasend]

[crazybabyborg]

Thanks EURobert - I may have to do something with that voodoo footage 

What the heck were they stabbing? a joran doll and tomatoes in a sack?

Remind me never to tick off a Peruvian witch doctor. Great googlie mooglie!!!!

Remember when Joran threw the wine on DeVries? I was so struck by Anita's reaction to it. It was an almost gentle  "Awww, no" and shaking her head. If she had been a little more like these guys, Joran might be an upstanding citizen instead of a murderer!

I don't speak their language, but I get the gist of it, and I wouldn't tick them off either!!

[nonesuche]

They've got his stuff including laptop!!!!  WOO - HOO!!!

Oh he is so toast! He is burnt toast! He's a crispy critter!!!!

I think the Renfro toast should accompany this, I mean oh snap, she is like his godmother you know?

She must be so terribly proud........

[EURobert]

Stole this;
Asimismo, la sangre hallada en la camisa del extranjero corresponde a la víctima.

In addition, blood found on the foreigner's shirt corresponds with the victim.

http://www.aja.com.pe/aja/seccion.php?txtSecci_id=22&txtNota_id=366735

Perfect. He`s toast. Extra CRIP-SY!

The end of Jurine!

[MisGivings]

Stole this;
Asimismo, la sangre hallada en la camisa del extranjero corresponde a la víctima.

In addition, blood found on the foreigner's shirt corresponds with the victim.

http://www.aja.com.pe/aja/seccion.php?txtSecci_id=22&txtNota_id=366735

Perfect. He`s toast. Extra CRIP-SY!

I can just hear him now, 'Really Mommy, it was chocolate.'

[nonesuche]

Stole this;
Asimismo, la sangre hallada en la camisa del extranjero corresponde a la víctima.

In addition, blood found on the foreigner's shirt corresponds with the victim.

http://www.aja.com.pe/aja/seccion.php?txtSecci_id=22&txtNota_id=366735

Perfect. He`s toast. Extra CRIP-SY!

do you hear the prison door slamming behind him? I feel sure he will offer up the excuse he fled because a ghost came into the room and killed her and he got bloody trying to give her CPR or similar......

[EURobert]

A .gif... And the torture never stops!

[MisGivings]

Stole this;
Asimismo, la sangre hallada en la camisa del extranjero corresponde a la víctima.

In addition, blood found on the foreigner's shirt corresponds with the victim.

http://www.aja.com.pe/aja/seccion.php?txtSecci_id=22&txtNota_id=366735

Perfect. He`s toast. Extra CRIP-SY!

do you hear the prison door slamming behind him? I feel sure he will offer up the excuse he fled because a ghost came into the room and killed her and he got bloody trying to give her CPR or similar......

Maybe it was the Tooth Fairy with that invisible dust.

[Maggie]

MisGivings, there was a lot more in that article:

there was a lot of blood in the room and the bathroom
police have the video of the two of them leaving the casino and getting up in her car
VDS slept in the car on the trip to Lima
when he was in the taxi escaping to Chile he said he was headed for Argentina

http://www.aja.com.pe/aja/seccion.php?txtSecci_id=22&txtNota_id=366735

[MisGivings]

So, what is supposed to be on tonight regarding this case?

[Buckeye]

I am certain that Joran will have a complete memory loss....just like his father did when he was questioned.

I like the Shaman business because so many, on Aruba (Rudi, Delma, that restaurant friend of Julia's that always wrote Brians Predictions and of course the well paid Guiding Light pair) are into that kind of thing.  I think the only search that the police helped with was the one done by a psychic, to hear Mos tell it).

[MisGivings]

MisGivings, there was a lot more in that article:

there was a lot of blood in the room and the bathroom
police have the video of the two of them leaving the casino and getting up in her car
VDS slept in the car on the trip to Lima
when he was in the taxi escaping to Chile he said he was headed for Argentina

http://www.aja.com.pe/aja/seccion.php?txtSecci_id=22&txtNota_id=366735

Thanks. Slept through Spanish in High School.

[klaasend]

Stole this;
Asimismo, la sangre hallada en la camisa del extranjero corresponde a la víctima.

In addition, blood found on the foreigner's shirt corresponds with the victim.

http://www.aja.com.pe/aja/seccion.php?txtSecci_id=22&txtNota_id=366735

Perfect. He`s toast. Extra CRIP-SY!

[MisGivings]

Stole this;

van der Sloot wants a lawyer and an interpreter will

Citizen Dutchman food tested that gave the police. The interrogations continue with the presence of a prosecutor


Sunday June 6, 2010 - 1:17 pm

The citizen Netherlands Joran van der Sloot Andreas is now in the dungeons of the National Police Dirincri. The main suspect in the murder of Stephany Flores (21) will be for seven days in the police headquarters to continue being interrogated for a week with police, according to was established Judge Romulo Chira permanent shift Cabezas.

Dirincri fonts informed elcomercio.pe Joran van der Sloot that is relatively quiet and have tasted the food given to you by the police.

AN INTERPRETER
Sources claim that van der Sloot has requested a lawyer and an interpreter will be provided so you can communicate more easily, always with the presence of the prosecutor. So, the interrogations are still underway.

According Peru21, experts see today if the footsteps of Van der Sloot is the same as those found at the crime scene.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/490646/joran-van-der-sloot-quiere-abogado-oficio-tendra-interprete

[Blonde]

So Joran GAVE Jaap the map?????? Joran essentially ADMITTED guilt by extorting the Holloways. Joran killed again on the exact 5 year anniversary date. 
I am convinced Joran WANTED to be finally caught.

Sorry but I just am not falling for this again until Beth says Natalee is home.
I can never believe that Joran wanted to get caught he's way too selfish. Not buying it he got caught because he thought he was untouchable, Well Joran your not in the Netherlands anymore...

[crazybabyborg]

Nothing can bring Natalee or Stephany back, and there is no way to undo what has happened. Justice can only deal with what is left. Having said that, I'm thinking there is justice coming down with this case to satisfy, as much as possible, Natalee's and Stephany's family. Remember the video of Beth watching the DeVries tape of Joran and Patrick? She said afterward that Joran's life would be Hell from that point on and she was a prophet. The Hell that Joran is and will be in, leaves nothing but his soul. What choices he makes regarding that before he dies is really all he has left. He's 22 and may have a long time to think about that, and he's not going to be able to hurt anyone else while he thinks. His environment should serve as a motivator! <grin>

I hope Aruba is watching those witch doctors. Karma, happy island, is a biotch!

JMHO!!!

[TURBOTHINK]

I think you mean about one in every 25 people have sociopathic traits; psychopathy/sociopathy are syndromes of traits/symptomes.

Not really. It is a lack of conscience. It may exhibit some identifiable symptoms, but in itself is not a symptom. The presence or lack of conscience is a deep human division, arguably more significant than intelligence, race or even gender. What differentiates a sociopath who lives off the labors of others from one who occasionally robs convenience stores or what makes the difference between an ordinary bully and a sociopath murderer - is nothing more than social status, drive, intellect, blood lust or simple opportunity in some cases.

What distinguishes these people from the rest of us is there is an utterly empty hole in their psyche, where there should be the most evolved of all humanizing functions. They are totally lacking in any conscience.

Except for the psychopathic monsters like this man and others we see in the news and on TV, whose actions are too horrific to explain away , conscienceless people are nearly always invisible to us in society as a whole. Very few people, no matter how well educated they are in other ways even know the meaning of the word sociopath. Even after we have learned the label for it, to be devoid of any conscience is impossible for most human being to comprehend.  

I've heard some psychiatrists talk of a checklist of 'traits' to determine if someone is a psychopath.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hare_Psychopathy_Checklist
[/quote]

There is a "checklist' but sociopathy differentiates from psychopathy only because of degree. Some believe psychopaths do have a conscience but such a blood lust it is seared. The DSM-IV helps to identify them, but in reality is not often used because unless in legal trouble sociopaths don't go to shrinks.

Psychopathy is most commonly assessed with the PCL-R,  which is a clinical rating scale with 20 items. Each of the items in the PCL-R is scored on a three-point (0, 1, 2) scale according to two factors. PCL-R Factor 2 is associated with reactive anger, anxiety, increased risk of suicide, criminality, and impulsive violence.

PCL-R Factor 1, in contrast, is associated with extraversion and positive affect. Factor 1, the so-called core personality traits of psychopathy, may even be beneficial for the psychopath (in terms of non-deviant social functioning). A psychopath will score high on both factors, whereas someone with APD will score high only on Factor 2

[carpe noctem]

MisGivings, there was a lot more in that article:

there was a lot of blood in the room and the bathroom
police have the video of the two of them leaving the casino and getting up in her car
VDS slept in the car on the trip to Lima
when he was in the taxi escaping to Chile he said he was headed for Argentina

http://www.aja.com.pe/aja/seccion.php?txtSecci_id=22&txtNota_id=366735

Thanks. Slept through Spanish in High School.

Google Translator:

Stephany blood sinks it

At last came the day that many Peruvians waited because they wanted to see close to the Dutchman, a man as handsome as dangerous. Everyone can not believe that this foreigner is like a vampire movie, seduces her 'Dam', sucks the blood, destroys his life and flees in search of another.

After a long journey, Joran Van Der Sloot came to the Dirincri, where it will be investigated and interrogated for six days before a lawyer for the crime of Stephany Flores Ramirez found dead last Wednesday.

Receptionist. Aoad Anhely Marchena, an employee of 'Tac' discovered the body of Stephany on June 1 at 23 hours after a woman called asking for Joran. "I realized it was two days and went to charge. Listen to the radio and TV to loud and I thought I slept well but I returned and found the body," noted the PNP. Meanwhile, the Uruguayan businessman Elton Garcia began the search of Joran because he feared he had been kidnapped.

Transfer. Amid flashes and dozens of journalists, foreigners came a little more than ten in the morning to Lima after 13 hours of travel. All the way to sleep.

Evidence. A luminol test in the room occupied Van Der Sloot was found bloodstains on his victim in the bathroom and bed.

In addition, it was confirmed that the marks left on the vessels of the casino by Dutchman correspond to those found in the deceased. In addition, blood found on his shirt from abroad for the victim.

Stephany thousand suns won playing Thursday, Friday and Saturday last week but neither she nor her criminal were enrolled in the tournament Pocker.

Video. A hotel security camera 'Tac' videotaped and Stephany Van Der Sloot at the reception, where he calls the keys to your room, on 30 May at 5:15 in the morning.

The Dutchman is wearing a beige shirt and 8.56 in the morning wearing one garment is removed.

Police also manages other videos that recorded the arrival of the casino Stephany at 3 am, the output of the two truck up to it and both playing in the Atlantic City casino.

Escape plan. After committing the crime, Van Dert Sloot fled to Ica, arrived at 8 pm. Half an hour later part of NASCAR and the same driver, at 10:40, takes him to Tacna and arrives at 11.30.

During the trip only smoke but in a moment the driver said "Peru is beautiful, I came to know Cusco. In Chile will go to Argentina."